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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
The Mach
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:13:00 -
[691]
holy crap i agree with a PL and goons... CCP you F'ed this up bad... webbies are the things that need a boost
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Aenis Veros
Caldari Alphaflight
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:13:00 -
[692]
Originally by: Hoshino Rika
Originally by: Aenis Veros
Unless there's an Arazu in the enemy's gang. Then you'll sit still and die. Wonderful act of balancing.
Dear sir, now you die when there is huggin rapier in gang, with far greater range on T1 than faction ( domination! ) fitted arazu
Dear clueless alt, a web is not a scram. If you're webbed outside scramrange currently, you can warp off. The wonderful new Arazu does the job of the minmatar recon AND the gallente recon. Way to make ships obsolete. CCP sure knows their stuff.
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Stab Wounds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:13:00 -
[693]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Vagabond: High: nothing Med: 10mn microwarpdrive Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
Looks balanced to me. 4km/sec is more than fast enough
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Cutesmile
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:14:00 -
[694]
What is the trick ? I will say it. If u not using mwd, the Caldari ship will hit u. If nothing using MWD the Caldari shield tank will be working. Simple.
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qRTA Over
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:14:00 -
[695]
Thks CCP , finally there will be some use for my arazu
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Asero
Lilium Venture Initiative
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:15:00 -
[696]
[Vagabond, Nano] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Hobgoblin II x5
that includes NO implants and NO gang bonuses.
gives me 5654 speed and a 6.4sec align time
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Tob'ias Sjodin
Organized Crime Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:15:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Elmicker don't worry guys. Last time a developer got this defensive, it was zulupark and the carriers, and we all know how quickly those changes went thr- oh wait.
I sure hope you're right. But I fear you're not.
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Damion Zyne
Des Esseintes Social Club
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:16:00 -
[698]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Matrixcvd
SO did that 4km/s vaga not really have T2 lows but Republic fleet ODs? come on now tell us the truth, T2 polys with there 7& bonus... You can tell us you got that number right off EFT wiht all the best implants and fittings, barely broke 4km/s, and btw breaking 4km/s doesnt mean 4028m/s either.
Vagabond: High: nothing Med: 10mn microwarpdrive Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
Hold on. You gonna break not only the matari recons, EAS and the claymore but also the vaga with the muninn allready pretty bad??
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KingCappo
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:16:00 -
[699]
Originally by: Asero [Vagabond, Nano] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Hobgoblin II x5
that includes NO implants and NO gang bonuses.
gives me 5654 speed and a 6.4sec align time
You have access to the CCP internal test server to get those number post nano nerf?
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Medore
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:16:00 -
[700]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Vagabond: High: nothing Med: 10mn microwarpdrive Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
lol
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Darkmist Starpain
The Serpent Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:16:00 -
[701]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil So, since I can't get on SISI until that patch deploys, help me out here.
Say a max-skilled Vagabond, with 2 speed rigs and 3 lowslot speed modules. 10MN MWD II, with say the 10% bonus from gangskills and baseline no implants or hardwirings in - what would I get?
A smack from CCP's Nerfbat.
And for some content: Whoever came up with this stupid idea of changing this and that and everything in between to try and fix an imaginary problem that in reality does not excist is a moron. If it goddamn ain't broken you do NOT need to fix it. And it ain't broken/borked/overpowered). |
Stab Wounds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:16:00 -
[702]
Originally by: Asero [Vagabond, Nano] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Hobgoblin II x5
that includes NO implants and NO gang bonuses.
gives me 5654 speed and a 6.4sec align time
^ that speed is currently the problem with the vaga
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Hoshino Rika
Caldari GBTeam
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:16:00 -
[703]
i like most changes except the webs one, which will make hugin/rapier significantly weaker. i would actulaly change webs to 70-80, and cive tackling inties 10-15-20 % bonus to scram, and leave old 5% to distupt. about dual working. well ccp iontroduced scripst, so why not use iot here? 2 points str or mwd dissable... (i would love a mwd disable script in Hictor >_> the deat of the nanogangs:P )
"Wellcome to Rivendell... Mr Anderson"
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:16:00 -
[704]
Originally by: Elmicker don't worry guys. Last time a developer got this defensive, it was zulupark and the carriers, and we all know how quickly those changes went thr- oh wait.
Yeah but these are all knee-jerk reactions to CCP's exhausting 5 hour discussion of options! Not like last time at all! ---
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Dez Affinity
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:17:00 -
[705]
Edited by: Dez Affinity on 25/07/2008 16:23:36
Originally by: "DevBlog" Then there is also the size/price factor; why would I spend ISK on a sleek, fragile interceptor (thatĘs lithe and quick, supposedly), when I can just spend the money on a more durable heavy assault cruiser and reach even greater speeds?
This is blatant lies, a standard t2 Inty(without polys) will reach the speeds of a Vaga(with polys) and a faction mwd quite easily, for 1/20th of the price. Since EVERYBODY uses high grade snakes, a proper faction fit crow with snakes will go 19km/s and a proper faction fit vaga with snakes will go 12km/s. Now these speeds are really high, but they also costs billions. Billions of isk that is easily removed by 1 guy in a rapier and a damage ship.
] Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Vagabond: High: nothing Med: 10mn microwarpdrive Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
lol, Overdrives stack with Aux. Even with snakes that thing is only going 8km/s, easily matched by a t2 inty with gisti b type mwd or overloaded mwd. Also t2 auxilliary? wat. You sir are drunk. _______________
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Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:17:00 -
[706]
I thought I'd just post my "lol" here.
Man, these comments are priceless.
Priceless, I say.
Good on you CCP. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
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Arcane Carnage
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:17:00 -
[707]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: CCP Nozh Answering a few common questions:
Death to small roaming gangs
- Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.
This is a pretty horrible argument, EVE was a totally different game back then, less players, pre-NOS-nerf, pre-ECM-nerf, pre-whatever else nerf. Or do you mean to say that you're bringing those back now? Small roaming gangs back then worked because there were other powerful tools available for smaller gangs, now as it is nano is one of the few remaining options for a small roaming gang to avoid running into a vastly superior force and dying immediately.
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
This weekend's knee-jerk comments will be taken with a large grain of salt. If you (in general "you") want to do something about these changes, then get on sisi and try out various scenarios and give feedback then :)
The only time in the past when anything actually changed from CCP:s own supposedly Dev-blog "idea" to what actually went on Tranquility was when THEoneTHATshallBEunnamed suggested some ridiculous carrier-changes, and the only reason it got changed was because of overwhelming criticism BEFORE THEY WERE IMPLEMENTED ON SISI. You're telling me that your coders will make all these changes on SiSi only to have to revamp them because of eg. a week of testing? Once it hits Sisi it's obviously gone through a chain of decisionmaking and player-feedback from the "in general 'you'" is mostly PR-nonsense (akin to CSM-influence).
We object because we like this game and wish it not to go south like so many other MMO:s that changed because the devs catered to those who whined too much from the get-go. You have a working game-mechanic, and as the old saying goes: If it's not broken, don't fix it.
I was writing my first responsible epic rant of the thread then found someone did it for me in my exact words... -
Illuminati - Pathetic Legion
Ures truly kickin' ass Carn |
SengH
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:17:00 -
[708]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Vagabond: High: nothing Med: 10mn microwarpdrive Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
Are you seriously telling us that you rebalanced the mods around everyone having a full snake set? If so can we have an ETA on when tanks are balanced around slave/crystal sets too?
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CCP Dionysus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:17:00 -
[709]
Originally by: Heartstone
So umm no offense but can we have an answer to them rather than answering the flippant ones please? Such as my question about how you are going to test the wide ranging implications of a change like this when you need the numbers to do so which simply aren't ever going to be available on SISI?
None taken at all.
Yes, the design and testing of these changes has already taken a lot of time and arguments here in CCP. But the range of testing has mainly been done to see that ships are balanced in speed and still able to be hit by appropriate weapon types, so most tests have involved small numbers of ships with very mixed weapon setups.
eg, Crow with speed setup vs a harp at extreme range, vs a kestrel with light missiles, and vs a drone boat using light drones. - or a vagabond vs a set of cruisers using turrets, missiles, and med drones to try to hit it etc. The ships have been balanced so far so that frigate sized ships can, with fitting, hit any other frigate sized ship, same for cruisers and battleships.
We are not sure about the final impact of things like the additional MWD disable effect of scramblers (just that it works and so far seems to give balanced results)
We have a month of time on Sisi to get play tests with more numbers. We would like to see some tests like a gatecamp setup, or a close in brawl, or an attempt at a hit/run attack. The things that are going on sisi need further playtesting and balancing - the values that have been given are not final and will be changed according to how the playtests go.
From the test we have done so far, a "speed setup" ship can still become pretty much invulnerable to ships that are not setup to counter them, but now an enemy that knows to expect "nano ships" will be able to have a serious effect, rather than just scaring them away.
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Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:18:00 -
[710]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus eg, Crow with speed setup vs a harp at extreme range, vs a kestrel with light missiles, and vs a drone boat using light drones. - or a vagabond vs a set of cruisers using turrets, missiles, and med drones to try to hit it etc.
Would you like to rent my JCB? It digs faster that that shovel.
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xGRIMERx
Minmatar The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:18:00 -
[711]
what kind of eve do devs play? speed is quite ok as it is now
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Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:18:00 -
[712]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Yeah but these are all knee-jerk reactions to CCP's exhausting 5 hour discussion of options! Not like last time at all!
Whoah well if they spent 5 hours on it i guess we're all just being obtuse and whiny. guys, everyone back down. CCP must be right.
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:18:00 -
[713]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Matrixcvd
SO did that 4km/s vaga not really have T2 lows but Republic fleet ODs? come on now tell us the truth, T2 polys with there 7& bonus... You can tell us you got that number right off EFT wiht all the best implants and fittings, barely broke 4km/s, and btw breaking 4km/s doesnt mean 4028m/s either.
Vagabond: High: nothing Med: 10mn microwarpdrive Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
This is the dumbest shit I've seen BY FAR.
EVER.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:19:00 -
[714]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 25/07/2008 16:19:18 As an Illuminati has stated, this'll put PvP back to where it was, yet, he thinks this is a bad thing.
Before the advent of rigs and nanoing, there was variety:
There were solo pvp'ers all around. Gank megathrons trying to grab a ship or two.
Small gang had a diverse array of ships, from BS's to frigs and inty's.
People scouted a system before they entered it.
People engaged other small gangs and there were (gasp!) losses on both sides.
There was fun to be had at every level, and yes, there were blobs. There will always be blobs, its the whole concentrating firepower thing. But taknig away an OP tactic will not force people back into blobs, it'll force them to use other ships, and maybe focus on (OMG NO WAY) traditional tanking or ganking.
In fact, when's the last time you've seen a tank or gank setup not get laughed at?
Im appalled that the nano-brats cant see the error of their ways. ----------------- Friends Forever |
KingCappo
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:19:00 -
[715]
Originally by: Stab Wounds
Originally by: Asero [Vagabond, Nano] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Hobgoblin II x5
that includes NO implants and NO gang bonuses.
gives me 5654 speed and a 6.4sec align time
^ that speed is currently the problem with the vaga
Originally by: http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ships/heavyassaultships/minmatar/11999.asp
vagabond Vagabond Hull: Stabber Class Role: Heavy Assault Ship
The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat.
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burek
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:19:00 -
[716]
I've re-read the blog and am thinking it's an epic troll. But when that CCP Whateverdev posted the new vaga setup to break 4km I'm now convinced it's a troll... It has to be... Please be... |
Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:19:00 -
[717]
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Yeah but these are all knee-jerk reactions to CCP's exhausting 5 hour discussion of options! Not like last time at all!
Whoah well if they spent 5 hours on it i guess we're all just being obtuse and whiny. guys, everyone back down. CCP must be right.
And you really think there was just one meeting ever?
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Damion Zyne
Des Esseintes Social Club
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:19:00 -
[718]
Is it allowed to petition a DEV for trolling ???
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General Brusilov
Magellanic Itg GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:20:00 -
[719]
The vast majority of nano folk don't use snakes or t2 rigs. Try posting speed numbers using rogues, t2 mods, and t1 rigs. Dionysus, if you honestly think your setup is what most people use, you shouldn't have any say in this.
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SomeHardLovin
The Nietzian Way Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:20:00 -
[720]
Edited by: SomeHardLovin on 25/07/2008 16:21:44 Nano-gangs in 0.0 have become silly. They basically roam with impunity and it means crazy high skilled players with a boatload of cash have a guaranteed win leaving other players with the only option to dock. When a ship is going 13,000ms nothing is going to hit it and it simply drifts out of range when dual webbed.. that's just broken. Now that eve is getting a little older there are SO many people with that amount of skill and cash, all you see is nano gangs. This reduces combat to almost 0. They gank.. someone dies.. the rest hide.. repeat. Thats not really all that fun. Well.. it might be for the nano gang.. but even then.. doesn't it get boring? I'd rather a challenge... i'd like to see more cruiser/af/inty mixed gangs rather than a bunch of HACs/RECONS.
Boost to AFs is LONG in coming. Can't wait for that.
For your own edification, I have compiled the dev blogs graph into an overview making it a bit easier to see where the changes will be: New and Old Speed chart
Lastly I have to say, "Called it!": The Gate Camp - Nano Ship Down! The Gate Camp - Main Page ---
* The opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my corporation or alliance. |
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