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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.07.19 12:59:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Vaal Erit No to any form of pirating in high security space. New players should not be victim to older players with billions of disposable assets. New players are always needed to keep the game fresh and continuing on.
Yeah, because the people flying around in officer fitted faction battleships are of course all new players in need of protecting. You are an idiot.
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: ISK Fairy umm if your so concerned about getting ganked just amke your selves less of a target by using cargo containers so the gankers dont know what they could be getting, but dont peanalize the gankers for the stupidity of the haulers who dont even try to hide the fact that they are hauling huge ammounts of isk around.
And cargo containers help because ?....
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Vaal Erit No to any form of pirating in high security space. New players should not be victim to older players with billions of disposable assets. New players are always needed to keep the game fresh and continuing on.
Yeah, because the people flying around in officer fitted faction battleships are of course all new players in need of protecting. You are an idiot.
Yeah, because people would ONLY go after the milti billion isk ships and leave all the new players well alone, thats exactly what happens in low sec. You are an idiot.
Oh and if you put stuff into a cargo container all you will see on the scan is a cargo container.
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Zephyr Rengate
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:20:00 -
[34]
People only kill experienced people in high sec, people able to fit and afford expsensive mods. So really I dont buy into any arguement that suicide ganking harms newer players. More experienced players should know not to fly what they cannot afford to lose and to also make sure they dont appear too juicy a target. Avoiding the real popular mission hubs will help aswell.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I will not liek human meat but the naerest I tried is human chesse. I don't want to tried again ...
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:24:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate People only kill experienced people in high sec, people able to fit and afford expsensive mods. So really I dont buy into any arguement that suicide ganking harms newer players. More experienced players should know not to fly what they cannot afford to lose and to also make sure they dont appear too juicy a target. Avoiding the real popular mission hubs will help aswell.
"Suicide ganking should be nerfed hard when NPC corp protection/corp hopping to avoid wardecs is removed."
That is what was being replied to.
War decing an NPC corp should never happen and would hurt newer players the most.
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:30:00 -
[36]
limit pilots in NPC corp what the can fly! like with trail accounts! and well no insurance on criminal actions. Or maybe have a large booster on the freighter just to last that little longer :P
Trinity Corporate Services
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: baltec1
"Suicide ganking should be nerfed hard when NPC corp protection/corp hopping to avoid wardecs is removed."
That is what was being replied to.
War decing an NPC corp should never happen and would hurt newer players the most.
agreed! just put a limit what they can use and fly!
Trinity Corporate Services
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:37:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gonada DONT AFK
there solved
ohh wait, the happy faced-carebear WoW generation still cant understand this.
Look how dumb you are, you don't get anything. Go back to WoW.
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:38:00 -
[39]
Originally by: northwesten limit pilots in NPC corp what the can fly! like with trail accounts! and well no insurance on criminal actions. Or maybe have a large booster on the freighter just to last that little longer :P
Sure, if we also make all PC corps self-invite (ie. no vetting process, the corp has no say in who joins and leaves).
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:06:00 -
[40]
oh yes lets limit the NPC corporations ship options...
And watch them spend a couple million in isk to set up spider tanks of wardecs on small or even one man corporations.
Take 5 corps. They can effectively make it 4 permawars going on between everyone of them... so you pay 5th war rates to wardec any one of them (and just think how much it'd cost to wardec all of them)
Or you just wind up with swarms of one man corporations operating just fine, because this isn't pokemon.. you can't catch them all.
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ashen Angel oh yes lets limit the NPC corporations ship options...
And watch them spend a couple million in isk to set up spider tanks of wardecs on small or even one man corporations.
Take 5 corps. They can effectively make it 4 permawars going on between everyone of them... so you pay 5th war rates to wardec any one of them (and just think how much it'd cost to wardec all of them)
Or you just wind up with swarms of one man corporations operating just fine, because this isn't pokemon.. you can't catch them all.
You really still don't get it, do you?
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Ashen Angel oh yes lets limit the NPC corporations ship options...
And watch them spend a couple million in isk to set up spider tanks of wardecs on small or even one man corporations.
Take 5 corps. They can effectively make it 4 permawars going on between everyone of them... so you pay 5th war rates to wardec any one of them (and just think how much it'd cost to wardec all of them)
Or you just wind up with swarms of one man corporations operating just fine, because this isn't pokemon.. you can't catch them all.
You really still don't get it, do you?
Nope, I understand this:
You limit how someone can operate they adapt.
Limiting ships/modules usable by npc corporations makes them adapt.
Easiest adaptation is small or one man corporations, they are too small to wardec and have an effect on the competition.
Staggered wardecs are already in use
Suck it up, it's not your game mr troll. It changes to match what CCP determines is the most profitable manner.
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Shyamalan
Amarr Armada.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:19:00 -
[43]
If ccp were to stamp on every new gameplay strategy as it emerges this game would become flat and boring very quickly. Suicide ganking isnt an illegal exploit. Unless you want insta-concord who show up and cane gankers the instant they launch a missile, suicide ganking will always be around.
EVE-Gfx.com sig artist. Currently taking sig orders. Eve-mail Shyamalan to make a request. |
Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Shyamalan If ccp were to stamp on every new gameplay strategy as it emerges this game would become flat and boring very quickly. Suicide ganking isnt an illegal exploit. Unless you want insta-concord who show up and cane gankers the instant they launch a missile, suicide ganking will always be around.
All the proposed changes do is raise the bar for profitable.
As is they can shoot any raven, any transport, etc without scanning the modules or cargo to see if it's worth it.
Take the insurance away from concord kills in high sec, and it makes them actually think.
Right now they can break even popping a T1 hauler full of garbage mods on the way to be reprocessed. Because the insurance + loot > price of the ship lost in the attack
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Hannobaal
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:52:00 -
[45]
It has yet to happen to me, even while moving stuff worth a billion and more on a regular basis. So, I think it is fine the way it is.
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I'm not as think as you drunk I am. |
Julie Parker
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:54:00 -
[46]
Originally by: baltec1
Yeah, because people would ONLY go after the milti billion isk ships and leave all the new players well alone, thats exactly what happens in low sec. You are an idiot.
Oh and if you put stuff into a cargo container all you will see on the scan is a cargo container.
YOU are the idiot. Try not speaking about things you don't know about... like cargo scanning for instance... if you're going to go around calling names. Idiot.
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.19 16:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ashen Angel
Nope, I understand this:
You limit how someone can operate they adapt.
Limiting ships/modules usable by npc corporations makes them adapt.
Easiest adaptation is small or one man corporations, they are too small to wardec and have an effect on the competition.
Staggered wardecs are already in use
Suck it up, it's not your game mr troll. It changes to match what CCP determines is the most profitable manner.
I'm sorry but you really don't. It's quite amazing since I have explained it to you about three times, using smaller words each time. Let's try one more time.
Limiting NPC corps is not the only thing that should change. The war mechanics and the corporation mechanic should of course change too. That way there won't be a bunch of 1-man corps. Nobody has ever claimed that would be the result but you, and you are a proven idiot. Don't worry. What you say will happen, won't.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.19 16:35:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Ashen Angel
Nope, I understand this:
You limit how someone can operate they adapt.
Limiting ships/modules usable by npc corporations makes them adapt.
Easiest adaptation is small or one man corporations, they are too small to wardec and have an effect on the competition.
Staggered wardecs are already in use
Suck it up, it's not your game mr troll. It changes to match what CCP determines is the most profitable manner.
I'm sorry but you really don't. It's quite amazing since I have explained it to you about three times, using smaller words each time. Let's try one more time.
Limiting NPC corps is not the only thing that should change. The war mechanics and the corporation mechanic should of course change too. That way there won't be a bunch of 1-man corps. Nobody has ever claimed that would be the result but you, and you are a proven idiot. Don't worry. What you say will happen, won't.
There will still be the small & one man corporations that are unfeasible to wardec: Because CCP knows there are those that want to play solo or in small groups without worrying about wardec bs.
Adjust the wardec mechanics, and they will find the legit means to hurt you there too.
You got to remember a wardec does not mean you have to shoot a target, it can be there as an insurance cost (which takes isk from the market as a money sink every week...) allowing corporations/alliances to boost the costs of aggressive wardecs.
Say they implement the break points on wardecs, so they set a term of victory that will not be reached or attempted to be reached.
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Veldya
Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.07.19 16:50:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Veldya on 19/07/2008 16:52:22
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Vaal Erit No to any form of pirating in high security space. New players should not be victim to older players with billions of disposable assets. New players are always needed to keep the game fresh and continuing on.
Except its not new players being suicide ganked, but rather stupid old players hauling billions around in a t1 hauler. So your point is moot.
This is a moronic comment. You realize how many barges and exhumers have been ganked in the last 6 months? You can get T1 gank fits where the insurance pretty much covers the cost of the ship and modules so basically if anything drops it is all profit.
For new players who have got into a barge in 1 month or exhumer in 3 months where the insurance doesn't even remotely come close to covering the ship alone and the ships represent a massive chunk of their net worth while you have people who have billions in assets popping these defenseless ships.
If you didn't get insurance payout for popping the ships then ganking would then be limited to targets of value. At present almost any target is viable and because of the free ride with insurance you have griefers who sacrifice a number of ships to take out Marauders with T2 mods just because they know the mission runner is out of pocket because he can't insure his ship like they can the ganking ships.
Insurance needs to change. At present the griefing rules are wortheless because to a ganker any target has a value. People who are out there who grief targets of no real worth but to so to grief are the ones that are going to cause the system to change, it is only a matter of time.
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Turin
Caldari Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 16:50:00 -
[50]
The ganking is fine. The only thing that needs to be changed is that insurance should not be paid out if you get killed by concorde. No one will ever convince me that is a good mechanic.
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:13:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ashen Angel
There will still be the small & one man corporations that are unfeasible to wardec: Because CCP knows there are those that want to play solo or in small groups without worrying about wardec bs.
Adjust the wardec mechanics, and they will find the legit means to hurt you there too.
You got to remember a wardec does not mean you have to shoot a target, it can be there as an insurance cost (which takes isk from the market as a money sink every week...) allowing corporations/alliances to boost the costs of aggressive wardecs.
Say they implement the break points on wardecs, so they set a term of victory that will not be reached or attempted to be reached.
See, this is why we don't take you seriously. Instead of thinking about what you are spouting, you instead post completely inane ramblings about things which you know nothing of, and you continuously try to make out that whatever idiotic idea you have in your head is the one and only way to do things.
I'm sorry. You're still an idiot, and discussing anything with you is a waste of time.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Nikita Alterana
Gallente Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:26:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Actually i would love for better concord mechanics, though to still have suicide ganking in the game.
EG make them ****ing hard to escape from (every system with a losec gate in it has more concord) When a hostile act is detected, one concord officer warps in and will call for reinfocrements where needed. Concord will also protect those who are innocent (remote reps) providing there is anything left. This makes up for their lacking DPS. Also, like a proper police force, they will give you the ability to "come quietly" and have your ship impounded, with the release charge being set as the cost of your crimes, along with less of a sec loss.
While it dosent do anything for suicide ganking, it makes concord more interesting. Better than the "lets spawn 10 ships there and shoot at it" mechanic.
^ pretty much this.
the probem isn't suicide ganking, thats just players using a broken system to kil people and make money, but if you made concord smarter, and yet made them escapeable at the same time, then piracy in highsec would be much more interesting then 'how much DPS can we pump out before the Concordokken?' It should be possible, with the proper planning and logistics, to avoid the concordokken, but at the same time, it should be practically impossible for a group of bored goons to do it in cruisers. ALSO Concord shouldn't just leave the loot, they should impound the stuff of the victim after the area is secured, meaning that if you want to grab the loot then you have to act fast. Another thing that could be added is the ability to work as a player police force and take it one step beyond concord, so concord goes from being a rapid response auto-gank revenge squad to being a real police force, and the players can form a sort of investigative criminal-hunter role. __________________________________________________ |
Apoctasy
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:31:00 -
[53]
Look at real life.
You can go to someone's house and kill them, and then take all their stuff.
THEN LATER the police will come and arrest you. ----
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:33:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Ashen Angel
There will still be the small & one man corporations that are unfeasible to wardec: Because CCP knows there are those that want to play solo or in small groups without worrying about wardec bs.
Adjust the wardec mechanics, and they will find the legit means to hurt you there too.
You got to remember a wardec does not mean you have to shoot a target, it can be there as an insurance cost (which takes isk from the market as a money sink every week...) allowing corporations/alliances to boost the costs of aggressive wardecs.
Say they implement the break points on wardecs, so they set a term of victory that will not be reached or attempted to be reached.
See, this is why we don't take you seriously. Instead of thinking about what you are spouting, you instead post completely inane ramblings about things which you know nothing of, and you continuously try to make out that whatever idiotic idea you have in your head is the one and only way to do things.
I'm sorry. You're still an idiot, and discussing anything with you is a waste of time.
/me hands the troll a cookie and moves on
Just remember: if PvP was the be all and end all of EVE people would be flocking out of empire, they wouldn't be taking steps to avoid wardecs but finding new wars...
Low sec and null combined hold less population than high sec. chew on those numbers because you know they are true and it drives you insane that people don't play the game like you want them to.
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Farrqua
Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:35:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Apoctasy Look at real life.
You can go to someone's house and kill them, and then take all their stuff.
THEN LATER the police will come and arrest you.
Unlike watching COPS on TV, a lot of crimes goes unsolved and unpunished. So the correct response should be "THEN LATER, IF EVER the police will come to arrest you." That is ofc you want to draw a line to connect reality to a video game.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:46:00 -
[56]
Dear Mr Insurance Underwriter, I find it annoying that you will pay insurance to someone who attacks someone else in Empire space, without being part of a Concord sanctioned war. It is stupid, and it really can't make any business sense whatsoever.
Also, please find enclosed my claim forms for the ships I lost: Warping to the wrong moon and getting killed by a POS, Engaging a massive pirate fleet in a deadspace pocket, And the one I lost going back to pick up the loot of the previous one, And the ship I lost in a huge alliance fleet fight .. and the couple I lost in a roaming gang. Oh, and the one where I fell asleep at a gate and got nibbled to death by two NPC pirates in frigates.
Clearly all these losses should be covered by my policy, because they were due to my stupidity and inability, rather than someone being mean.
Thank you for your time in this matter.
P.S. My battleship was close to the end of it's policy, so I self destructed it, so could I please have a new claim form?
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Avon Dear Mr Insurance Underwriter, I find it annoying that you will pay insurance to someone who attacks someone else in Empire space, without being part of a Concord sanctioned war. It is stupid, and it really can't make any business sense whatsoever.
Also, please find enclosed my claim forms for the ships I lost: Warping to the wrong moon and getting killed by a POS, Engaging a massive pirate fleet in a deadspace pocket, And the one I lost going back to pick up the loot of the previous one, And the ship I lost in a huge alliance fleet fight .. and the couple I lost in a roaming gang. Oh, and the one where I fell asleep at a gate and got nibbled to death by two NPC pirates in frigates.
Clearly all these losses should be covered by my policy, because they were due to my stupidity and inability, rather than someone being mean.
Thank you for your time in this matter.
P.S. My battleship was close to the end of it's policy, so I self destructed it, so could I please have a new claim form?
hmm, consider ship insurance to be high risk insurance
Adding a clause: not payable under destruction of ship by concord action isn't too hard to imagine.
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:09:00 -
[58]
Avon, the guy's stupid beyond words. Common sense doesn't bite on him.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:11:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Ashen Angel
cops and soldiers get life insurance, at higher rates than civilians due to the risks inherit in their jobs: hence the fact insurance companies have high risk contracts for high risk situations
Much like car companies have high risk rates for bad drivers.
Aren't soldiers those people who shoot people who don't want to get shot? They get insurance? Wow.
I see how that strengthens your arguement.
A soldier is also one that doesn't want to get shot while defending their way of life. A soldier is at risk at war, not when he goes nuts and shoots civilians in the middle of Seattle... there he becomes a criminal and the life insurance does not get paid if the cops kill him.
A cop doesn't want to get shot while trying to bring a criminal to justice. The guy that just killed two people and gets shot by the cop doesn't collect insurance for his family... because he died during a criminal activity.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ashen Angel
A soldier is also one that doesn't want to get shot while defending their way of life. A soldier is at risk at war, not when he goes nuts and shoots civilians in the middle of Seattle... there he becomes a criminal and the life insurance does not get paid if the cops kill him.
So, if a soldier got killed by cops in another country - say somewhere hot and sandy, is he still insured? Or is he only a criminal at home?
Just askin'
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
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