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whisk
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.16 10:01:00 -
[1]
2 more turrets and PG+CPU to fit them
thx
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enymphia
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.16 10:15:00 -
[2]
same goes for megathron..
2 extra turrets and moaar cpu+pg
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Kano Sekor
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2008.07.16 10:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: enymphia same goes for megathron..
2 extra turrets and moaar cpu+pg
zomg ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Desu Sigs |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2008.07.16 10:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: whisk 2 more turrets and PG+CPU to fit them
thx
same for the zealot & deimos
in fact give everything 2 more turrets
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Damares
Maximum Yarrage
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Posted - 2008.07.16 11:23:00 -
[5]
i think 1 more low would be hot tbh :D
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Tamoko
Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.07.16 11:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Damares i think 1 more low would be hot tbh :D
Even at the cost of the wildcard midslot, I'd accept this.
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.16 11:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: whisk 2 more turrets and PG+CPU to fit them
thx
sigh, ever looked at your ship bonuses? you get a 66% increase to damage on those 6 guns at level 5. Lets take a look at the numbers on that:
Tempest: 6 x 1.66 = 9.96
Megathron/Armageddon: 7 x 1.25 = 8.75
Maelstrom/abaddon/Hyperion: 8 x 1.25 = 10
You are proposing... Silly Tempest: 8 x 1.66 = 13.28
a clear 33% advantage on all the above BS 3 of which cost a hell of a lot more than a tempest. Tempest already has more equivalent guns than a megathron so go back to your skulking.
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Justice Bringer
Minmatar Space-Bar FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.07.16 11:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: whisk 2 more turrets and PG+CPU to fit them
thx
sigh, ever looked at your ship bonuses? you get a 66% increase to damage on those 6 guns at level 5. Lets take a look at the numbers on that:
Tempest: 6 x 1.66 = 9.96
Megathron/Armageddon: 7 x 1.25 = 8.75
Maelstrom/abaddon/Hyperion: 8 x 1.25 = 10
You are proposing... Silly Tempest: 8 x 1.66 = 13.28
a clear 33% advantage on all the above BS 3 of which cost a hell of a lot more than a tempest. Tempest already has more equivalent guns than a megathron so go back to your skulking.
This...!
Speak on my friend, speak on.
Justice
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Nexus Kinnon
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.16 11:50:00 -
[9]
this seems balanced
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d'hofren
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.16 11:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: whisk 2 more turrets and PG+CPU to fit them
thx
sigh, ever looked at your ship bonuses? you get a 66% increase to damage on those 6 guns at level 5. Lets take a look at the numbers on that:
Tempest: 6 x 1.66 = 9.96
Megathron/Armageddon: 7 x 1.25 = 8.75
Maelstrom/abaddon/Hyperion: 8 x 1.25 = 10
You are proposing... Silly Tempest: 8 x 1.66 = 13.28
a clear 33% advantage on all the above BS 3 of which cost a hell of a lot more than a tempest. Tempest already has more equivalent guns than a megathron so go back to your skulking.
You are presuming that all guns do uniform damage over uniform distance. Amongst the things that break your posit are:
* Varying Optimal ranges across differing weapon types * Damage in Optimal across differing weapon types * Varying Fall Off lengths across differing weapon types * Damage in Fall off across differing weapon types * Webs ranges and ship speeds (which effect the ability of a low range ship to fight at it's optimal) * Damage types across differing weapon types * Tracking across differing weapon types * Rate of Fire across differing weapon types * Finally reload times, (changing between ammo types etc).
and that's just off the top of my head, while drinking a cuppa at lunch time.
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Riho
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: whisk 2 more turrets and PG+CPU to fit them
thx
---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: d'hofren
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: whisk 2 more turrets and PG+CPU to fit them
thx
sigh, ever looked at your ship bonuses? you get a 66% increase to damage on those 6 guns at level 5. Lets take a look at the numbers on that:
Tempest: 6 x 1.66 = 9.96
Megathron/Armageddon: 7 x 1.25 = 8.75
Maelstrom/abaddon/Hyperion: 8 x 1.25 = 10
You are proposing... Silly Tempest: 8 x 1.66 = 13.28
a clear 33% advantage on all the above BS 3 of which cost a hell of a lot more than a tempest. Tempest already has more equivalent guns than a megathron so go back to your skulking.
You are presuming that all guns do uniform damage over uniform distance. Amongst the things that break your posit are:
* Varying Optimal ranges across differing weapon types * Damage in Optimal across differing weapon types * Varying Fall Off lengths across differing weapon types * Damage in Fall off across differing weapon types * Webs ranges and ship speeds (which effect the ability of a low range ship to fight at it's optimal) * Damage types across differing weapon types * Tracking across differing weapon types * Rate of Fire across differing weapon types * Finally reload times, (changing between ammo types etc).
and that's just off the top of my head, while drinking a cuppa at lunch time.
I understand what your saying however with that it would be impossible to judge which was the best since they all function better or worse in different situations, thus, the argument about ballancing guns would have to be a totally serparate one and I believe what I have said stands firm.
For your mind I'll list a little:
Autocannons: Highest falloff No cap usage Lower damage
Blasters: Lowest range (inc. falloff) Highest damage Medium cap usage
Pulse lasers: Longest range Medium damage High cap usage (not for the arma but def. for the abaddon)
Arty: Med range Low dps No cap usage
Railguns: Long range Med dps Med cap usage
Beam lasers: Massive cap usage High damage Medium range
So in its own little way its all ballanced out, let us not forget the poor old min dread that deals less damage than the amarr and gallente dreads despite having an extra weapon.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: whisk 2 more turrets and PG+CPU to fit them
thx
My Kronos need that, too ! ------------------------------------------
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:18:00 -
[14]
tempest is fine fix the guns both AC & arty
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: To mare tempest is fine fix the guns both AC & arty
Well arty need an alpha boost(massive one, my golem has a higher alpha than a maelstrom) and longer rof(probably a slight increase to dps too) but whats wrong with ac? and remember... they use no cap.
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: To mare tempest is fine fix the guns both AC & arty
Well arty need an alpha boost(massive one, my golem has a higher alpha than a maelstrom) and longer rof(probably a slight increase to dps too) but whats wrong with ac? and remember... they use no cap.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Tempest: 6 x 1.66 = 9.96
Megathron/Armageddon: 7 x 1.25 = 8.75
you know if you compared a tempest with those extra guns and drones, vs a mega with blasters, drones AND a siege launcher (lol) the mega is still doing mroe dmg.
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whisk
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:41:00 -
[18]
how is tempest fine again?
crappiest BS
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dr Fighter Edited by: Dr Fighter on 16/07/2008 12:36:28
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Tempest: 6 x 1.66 = 9.96
Megathron/Armageddon: 7 x 1.25 = 8.75
you know if you compared a tempest with those extra guns and drones and two siege launchers it now cant fit, vs a mega with blasters, drones and a siege launcher (lol) the mega is still doing more dmg.
At a much shorter range with cap usage...
When your fighting a neut ship and you cap out... your still shooting
When the target is 20km away... your still shooting
hell you dont even need to factor in the fact that caping out using a mwd getting to a target will cause you to not be able to shoot.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both ships and I believe that these two ships are ballanced. Also, judging by the fact that the tempest and megathron havn't changed in a damn long time, CCP seem to think that these ballance out too...
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: Dr Fighter Edited by: Dr Fighter on 16/07/2008 12:36:28
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Tempest: 6 x 1.66 = 9.96
Megathron/Armageddon: 7 x 1.25 = 8.75
you know if you compared a tempest with those extra guns and drones and two siege launchers it now cant fit, vs a mega with blasters, drones and a siege launcher (lol) the mega is still doing more dmg.
At a much shorter range with cap usage...
When your fighting a neut ship and you cap out... your still shooting
When the target is 20km away... your still shooting
hell you dont even need to factor in the fact that caping out using a mwd getting to a target will cause you to not be able to shoot.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both ships and I believe that these two ships are ballanced. Also, judging by the fact that the tempest and megathron havn't changed in a damn long time, CCP seem to think that these ballance out too...
go fly VS a decent mega/geddon/anything pilot and then come back
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:47:00 -
[21]
either way the tempest sucks with or without the guns your not going to get
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: To mare
go fly VS a decent mega/geddon/anything pilot and then come back
Head on against these ships it will almost always lose, thats not the point... the point is in other situations where the cap reliant ships would lose the tempest wont and it can still fill the high close up damage role very well.
Also this is untested but I would like to see a tempest engage a speed tank. It has fairly good tracking with auto's, a good falloff taking range to 20km, 2 free highs for whatever and is also the fastest of the T1 BS.
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whisk
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:54:00 -
[23]
Edited by: whisk on 16/07/2008 12:54:27
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: To mare
go fly VS a decent mega/geddon/anything pilot and then come back
Head on against these ships it will almost always lose, thats not the point... the point is in other situations where the cap reliant ships would lose the tempest wont and it can still fill the high close up damage role very well.
Also this is untested but I would like to see a tempest engage a speed tank. It has fairly good tracking with auto's, a good falloff taking range to 20km, 2 free highs for whatever and is also the fastest of the T1 BS.
so i can kill ( maybe if i can catch) cruisers!, woot!!! oh w8, most of the cruisers aint that stupid..damn... then i better go kill some one who neuts stufF!! oh w8, NOS have been nerfed, not so many of this any way...
hm what else should it do, oh I know! run missions!! oh w8, its crap at that also...
but it looks nice in hanger!!! thats its main purpouse! oh w8, aint so good at it either:....:(
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.07.16 13:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: whisk Edited by: whisk on 16/07/2008 12:54:27
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: To mare
go fly VS a decent mega/geddon/anything pilot and then come back
Head on against these ships it will almost always lose, thats not the point... the point is in other situations where the cap reliant ships would lose the tempest wont and it can still fill the high close up damage role very well.
Also this is untested but I would like to see a tempest engage a speed tank. It has fairly good tracking with auto's, a good falloff taking range to 20km, 2 free highs for whatever and is also the fastest of the T1 BS.
so i can kill ( maybe if i can catch) cruisers!, woot!!! oh w8, most of the cruisers aint that stupid..damn... then i better go kill some one who neuts stufF!! oh w8, NOS have been nerfed, not so many of this any way...
hm what else should it do, oh I know! run missions!! oh w8, its crap at that also...
but it looks nice in hanger!!! thats its main purpouse! oh w8, aint so good at it either:....:(
you can kill another tempest if you find one
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.16 13:02:00 -
[25]
tempest needs a cap reduction bonus for lasers so I can fit usefull weapons on it.
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.16 13:03:00 -
[26]
Originally by: whisk
so i can kill ( maybe if i can catch) cruisers!, woot!!! oh w8, most of the cruisers aint that stupid..damn... then i better go kill some one who neuts stufF!! oh w8, NOS have been nerfed, not so many of this any way...
hm what else should it do, oh I know! run missions!! oh w8, its crap at that also...
but it looks nice in hanger!!! thats its main purpouse! oh w8, aint so good at it either:....:(
I prefer to think of it as able to kill BS while being able to kill smaller stuff like nano HAC, and round where I live, almost every gang has a few ishtars and a curse, all nano. I think a tempest packing a neut and a smartbomb would fair quite well, alot better than a mega or an arma.
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.07.16 13:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: whisk
so i can kill ( maybe if i can catch) cruisers!, woot!!! oh w8, most of the cruisers aint that stupid..damn... then i better go kill some one who neuts stufF!! oh w8, NOS have been nerfed, not so many of this any way...
hm what else should it do, oh I know! run missions!! oh w8, its crap at that also...
but it looks nice in hanger!!! thats its main purpouse! oh w8, aint so good at it either:....:(
I prefer to think of it as able to kill BS while being able to kill smaller stuff like nano HAC, and round where I live, almost every gang has a few ishtars and a curse, all nano. I think a tempest packing a neut and a smartbomb would fair quite well, alot better than a mega or an arma.
LARGE weapon are made to kill LARGE targets.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2008.07.16 13:14:00 -
[28]
no, large weapons are ment to do more dmg, think about tracking at range and cruise missiles vs torps
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.07.16 13:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dr Fighter no, large weapons are ment to do more dmg, think about tracking at range and cruise missiles vs torps
with LARGE i mean BS sized guns BS sized guns are made to kill BS sized vessel and above
if this make things easy
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.16 13:22:00 -
[30]
damge mod increace, rof decreaced, clip reamins the same. . .overall slight dps increace, masssive alpha and **** poor tracking. . .
that is the fix ----
GO BLUE!! |
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