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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Raptor217
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
65
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Posted - 2012.03.14 06:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.
I could belt rat and make 60m/hour with a chained belt while highsec guys could make 120m/hour in incursions. I feel like CCP is shooting themselves in the foot here. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
128
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Posted - 2012.03.14 06:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
Raptor217 wrote:I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.
I could belt rat and make 60m/hour with a chained belt while highsec guys could make 120m/hour in incursions. I feel like CCP is shooting themselves in the foot here.
Maybe they plan on iterating in another ten years.
In the meantime, try running anomalies. I hear they have lots of battleships in them, too!
PS Does anybody else remember when they changed rats with (cold war?)? They basically had an early model of the Sleeper AI "ready for testing" on the live server and applied it to rats throughout New Eden. Obviously this vastly predated WH's.
They repealed it in a few weeks, inevitably realizing it was totally borked.
Maybe that will happen here? Hard telling. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1317
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Posted - 2012.03.14 07:25:00 -
[63] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Oh boy, you belt ratters get to relearn how to game the game again! Enjoy! You've really got to look at this with a positive attitude. The game being so old has been getting kinda blah since everything is documented. Now you get to re-;learn it all over again and be real Eve pioneers. Eve the game that keeps on giving! *sarcasm off*
More like, the botters need to reprogram.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
466
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Posted - 2012.03.14 07:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
lol null pve wasn't bleeding enough guys into just training incursion alts already |
Sade Onyx
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2012.03.14 09:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
Raptor217 wrote:I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.
Why cant you understand? CCP have said many times, Incursions arnt the problem. Its the 0.0 Belt ratters and mission runners.
Wake up dude, The whole 'incursions cause inflation' was a lie. The lie has now backfired and this is one of many changes to come to nerf 0.0 bears.
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Stabs McShiv
MINUS4
3
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Posted - 2012.03.14 09:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
That AI was awesome now that they have got it working for sleepers and sansha they should roll it out to all the rats plus seriously upgrade the abilitys of faction spawns make them "mini officers" they are weaker them most of the normal rats at the moment.
On topic great change ccp
+1 |
Laura Dexx
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.03.14 09:56:00 -
[67] - Quote
Bounties 32B Incursions 8B
So how many people were receiving bounties, and how many people were doing incursions? You'll see the per person ratio of Incursions is two to three times as high as your average belt, mission or anomaly runner's average income. These numbers are arbitrary if they do not include per-person ratios. |
GallowsCalibrator
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.14 10:21:00 -
[68] - Quote
To be honest, this seems to be a pretty good change if you look at medium-short term isk generation. Not every system starts perfectly chained, and the rats being dumped in a group seems to evenly distributed, not weighted towards lower bounty within a group. Which means that EVERY triple battleship spawn (when they come back they are still battleships!) is potentially valuable now, and there's less lead time to get a system to a reasonable chaining. Sure, if you're ratting a system for 10-12 hours you might lose out, but if you're doing that you're either a bot or need to get out.
Yeah, you could make 20-25m a tick with a chained belt - but how many 5-10 ticks did it take to get the system chained? Now you start at 15-20 and just keep on ticking.
(Also, no more triple jamming Gurista Battleship/Cruiser spawns.) |
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation
77
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Posted - 2012.03.14 10:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
... So... either no one belt rats in which case it only effects botters... Or ... people do belt rat and this stops the supposed isk facet... why are people complaining?
also vairiable content O_O in my eve!!! its been a long time coming :D - Nulla Curas |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
390
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Posted - 2012.03.14 10:51:00 -
[70] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:actually i like this, i hear this works for missions too? so now i wont know by memory what spawns in a mission? O_O
kudos to CCP for making something more dynamic and less static. That is fine but you do realize that unless they made the MAX spawn for missions the same or lower than it was before people are going to lose ships. And not in a good way. Because after the Drake (Which nearly or really melts in some missions) You have to go up to some really expensive stuff to tank. No problem for a bot for for the average newer player it could be disaster to the point of saying "Frak it I'm out" Not saying dynamic is bad. But it does have cons. I would MUCH rather have less incoming DPS and more variation in their tanking so that picking ammo is no longer so easy.
That has to be why today instead of the usual flood of insta-perma-jam craptastic rats I got just 2. Seems good to me.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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Caldari Citizen20110707
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.03.14 11:16:00 -
[71] - Quote
this is alloy nerf also, in drone region ppl chained only high end alloy dropping battleships. This was major issue with high end ores. now its nerfed. |
Kiandoshia
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
19
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Posted - 2012.03.14 11:16:00 -
[72] - Quote
This happens in missions as well? So we now have a slight chance there may be a faction spawn in one? =D |
Snatcha Pursia
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.14 11:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
Someone said on first page you need to adapt in eve. I would like to see an eve free of most bots be they mining, belts or trade. Having bots makes professions, some of them, obsolete. And nerf the shite out of drone drops along with mining bots so mining once again becomes somewhat profitable.
Adapting from my pov would be paying for a bot and do it myself which is something I'm really considering as, trough my professions, I am directly affected by the 3 types of bots mentioned above.
One thing is not mentioned enough is trade bots. Good ones with large enough wallets, and phat wallets become phaht soon enuf if you're botting, can leach out somewhere between 3-5b a day in pure profits - that is ISK of many bears anyone who knows something about anything can tell you that.
I mean, really, come on, give control of things that REALLY keep eve running back to the players. CCP is saying they have huge campaigns of banning bots, how is it then possible 5 mins since i start playing the markets i spot 5+ of them?
I mission for standings on 4 accounts at once and some wise guy can just plug his butthole with his thumb and let bots do their stuff and get plenty isk with no hassle.
Atm I just feel I single play since automation is such a big deal nowadays. Stop ignoring the big pink elephant in the room CCP, PLEASE!!!
No, really PLEASE |
Caliban Zateki
Zateki Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.03.14 11:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
To all the people going incursions aren't the problem it's belt ratting I'm calling shenanigans. I recently went from belt ratting in null to running incursions. When I ratted if I had 600mil in my wallet it was a big deal. Now that I run incursions if I have less than a Bill I get worried that I'm poor.
Furthermore to emphasize the difference between Highsec incursions and Low sec incursions, I recently placed third in a low sec incursion with a whoping 180k lp payed out. When I found out Highsec incursion runners in the top ten walk away with 900k+ I was speechless. Please continue trying to say that Highsec incursions aren't the biggest isk faucet in the game. You want to decrease inflation nerf high sec incursions more.
That being said I am still 100% okay with this change because it's a huge nerf to botters and a slight buff to miners which is still a step in the right direction. Just don't try to say that incursion runners aren't the cause of the 500mil plex market mmmkay.
on a side note as a former mission runner I am glad they have made them less static because before it was god awful boring running missions. Hopefully this spices things up a bit. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2961
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Posted - 2012.03.14 12:15:00 -
[75] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Why is belt ratting dead? Just kill all the spawns now and hope for a faction spawn, AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED. Jesus, damn nullbears. I could never understand the foaming-at-the-mouth craziness that erupted if I dared disrupt people's chains. This one time, at band camp, I blew up two destroyers and was awarded with an officer spawn. That officer dropped a couple of Dread Guristas items which handily padded my pocket.
Yes, disrupting people's chaining sessions is very good fun to be had - I've had a couple of threats over popping a few Core Barons where I shouldn't have been. It brought a tear to my eyes :)
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Greg Valanti
Looney Clones
16
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Posted - 2012.03.14 12:53:00 -
[76] - Quote
Caliban Zateki wrote:To all the people going incursions aren't the problem it's belt ratting I'm calling shenanigans. I recently went from belt ratting in null to running incursions. When I ratted if I had 600mil in my wallet it was a big deal. Now that I run incursions if I have less than a Bill I get worried that I'm poor.
Furthermore to emphasize the difference between Highsec incursions and Low sec incursions, I recently placed third in a low sec incursion with a whoping 180k lp payed out. When I found out Highsec incursion runners in the top ten walk away with 900k+ I was speechless. Please continue trying to say that Highsec incursions aren't the biggest isk faucet in the game. You want to decrease inflation nerf high sec incursions more.
That being said I am still 100% okay with this change because it's a huge nerf to botters and a slight buff to miners which is still a step in the right direction. Just don't try to say that incursion runners aren't the cause of the 500mil plex market mmmkay.
on a side note as a former mission runner I am glad they have made them less static because before it was god awful boring running missions. Hopefully this spices things up a bit.
The figures speak for themselves - 32B isk from ratting/bounties vs. 8B from incursions. The difference is you don't have bots running incursions 23.5/7. The change is a disincentive for player ratters, I agree. But it should help stop the rapid inflation that would make it impossible for average players to keep pace. |
Resivan
Driftglass Development
6
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Posted - 2012.03.14 13:04:00 -
[77] - Quote
The numbers CCP Diagoras has published show that cash enters from incursions is a fraction of what comes from bounties. Last I looked, there was no option to convert LP directly into isk and most items from the LP store actually require an isk payment. So it doesn't matter how many LP hisec incursions give out. That part of the payment is going to be an isk sink if anything.
Decreased predictability, anywhere in the game, makes it harder to bot. Try actually playing the game. |
Welsige
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.03.14 13:14:00 -
[78] - Quote
I think this change is pointless.
Belt ratting is a means to the new players make isk at a reasonable rate. Now this players are at a loss, having to put more time in ratting.
Bots are bots, they will have less income but still, its an afk activity and 1 isk earned is better than none. It will continue, a decrease on a lot of isk is still a lot of isk, wich I am sure will continue to keep those that Bot fat.
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evereplicant
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2012.03.14 13:32:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Bettik wrote:Yes I can confirm this has changed. It totally got missed in the patch notes and I will try to remedy that now.
We were refactoring how npcGÇÿs through groups spawned and this was one small fix on that. So now you are not guaranteed to get always the same type of npc of the same size in the group. This applies to missions and belt rats.
So quite a significant change 'accidently got totally missed off the patch notes' really CCP Bettik? Or was you hoping no one would notice :) |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1079
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Posted - 2012.03.14 13:41:00 -
[80] - Quote
Raptor217 wrote:I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.
I could belt rat and make 60m/hour with a chained belt while highsec guys could make 120m/hour in incursions. I feel like CCP is shooting themselves in the foot here.
I'm hoping this is a precursor to variable incursion spawns. That could actually work to stem the isk faucet a bit as fleets and fittings wouldn't be quite so cookie-cutter as they are now. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
14
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Posted - 2012.03.14 13:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
Most ****** change in months and it wasnt even in the patch notes.
CCP, just realize not everybody wants to do 0.0 PvP or your inbalanced uber-****** high sec incursions, which you wont even admit are completely and utterly imbalanced and ****** up the complete economy of Eve during the past few months.
God damnit!
Back to the good old days, where listening to the players was not necessary, because you knew better anyway? For your attention! Market order modification fee (anti-botting, more interesting trading) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78351 |
Mr John22ta
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
3
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Posted - 2012.03.14 14:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Sade Onyx wrote:Raptor217 wrote:I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions. Why cant you understand? CCP have said many times, Incursions arnt the problem. Its the 0.0 Belt ratters and mission runners. Wake up dude, The whole 'incursions cause inflation' was a lie. The lie has now backfired and this is one of many changes to come to nerf 0.0 bears.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. While the majority of ISK may come from rat bounties, it's not coming from people in null sec. 90% of people in null don't belt rat, and although some do run sites, most make their money with alts in high sec. I think you'll find that more rats are killed in High Sec per day than in null, and it's a no brainier that most mission rewards are collected in High Sec.
I know you high sec dwellers love to push the idea of the "null bear", and while they do exist, I can assure you they are a minority. I don't think incursion's are the only problem, I think ALL high sec rewards are far too high. The fact that many of the people I fly with and fight against have alts in empire to make money with tells me that.
0.0 should **** ISK compared to 0.5+ space, not the other way round. Perhaps you should spend some time understanding the game and player behavior before you start sperging "null bear" garbage.
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Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1252
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Posted - 2012.03.14 14:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
Despite what people say, Incursions pose a far greater risk than belt ratting. The only reason Incursions are so "safe" is because people do them in large groups and have a specific setup for each ship that is optimal for the situation. What CCP needs to do is make Incursions MUCH harder and add a vast element of uncertainty to not only the number of ships in each site but their difficulty and the end payout. Having a set amount of ships spawn in each site means that everybody knows exactly what is coming and how to deal with it. This should also be applied to ALL sites. DED and WH sites as well.
I personally hate the fact that I can go to a website and in seconds know exactly what spawns and what not to kill in any kind of site. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
458
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Posted - 2012.03.14 15:15:00 -
[84] - Quote
Reading this, the number of BS/BC etc doesn't change in a mission, just the quality of them?
So instead of facing off against 10 Gist Angel Battleships you might get a few Cherubims.
What this does nerf is certain missions where quality Battleships always spawned, and buffs the hell out of factions that rarely use their best stuff (looking at you Serps) Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
470
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Posted - 2012.03.14 15:25:00 -
[85] - Quote
Whoa whoa can't have you chaining belt rats in 0.0, that could make upwards of 40m an hr
Yeah go ahead and chain Vanguards in highsec for 120m an hr risk free, no problem
:ccp: |
Caliban Zateki
Zateki Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.03.14 18:52:00 -
[86] - Quote
Greg Valanti wrote:
The figures speak for themselves - 32B isk from ratting/bounties vs. 8B from incursions. The difference is you don't have bots running incursions 23.5/7. The change is a disincentive for player ratters, I agree. But it should help stop the rapid inflation that would make it impossible for average players to keep pace.
Bounties are also payed out in missions. Its not like all 32 bill is from belt ratting. Quote numbers all you want but cause and effect also does not lie. 500 mill plex market came about after incursions not before. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
133
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Posted - 2012.03.14 18:57:00 -
[87] - Quote
Caliban Zateki wrote:Greg Valanti wrote:
The figures speak for themselves - 32B isk from ratting/bounties vs. 8B from incursions. The difference is you don't have bots running incursions 23.5/7. The change is a disincentive for player ratters, I agree. But it should help stop the rapid inflation that would make it impossible for average players to keep pace.
Bounties are also payed out in missions. Its not like all 32 bill is from belt ratting. Quote numbers all you want but cause and effect also does not lie. 500 mill plex market came about after incursions not before.
This, TBQFH. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
385
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Posted - 2012.03.14 19:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sade Onyx wrote:Raptor217 wrote:I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions. Why cant you understand? CCP have said many times, Incursions arnt the problem. Its the 0.0 Belt ratters and mission runners. Wake up dude, The whole 'incursions cause inflation' was a lie. The lie has now backfired and this is one of many changes to come to nerf 0.0 bears.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but belt ratters are *NOT* the problem - because hardly anybody belt rats anymore. I would bet that virtually all bounties come from missions and anomalies these days.
And CCP has not said that "Incursions aren't the problem". They have, in fact, voiced concern over the difficulty level of Incursion sites and also voiced concerns about the "cookie cutter" nature of Incursion fleets. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2012.03.14 19:20:00 -
[89] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Sade Onyx wrote:Raptor217 wrote:I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions. Why cant you understand? CCP have said many times, Incursions arnt the problem. Its the 0.0 Belt ratters and mission runners. Wake up dude, The whole 'incursions cause inflation' was a lie. The lie has now backfired and this is one of many changes to come to nerf 0.0 bears. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but belt ratters are *NOT* the problem - because hardly anybody belt rats anymore. I would bet that virtually all bounties come from missions and anomalies these days. And CCP has not said that "Incursions aren't the problem". They have, in fact, voiced concern over the difficulty level of Incursion sites and also voiced concerns about the "cookie cutter" nature of Incursion fleets. Actually Soundwave did say that: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=925398#post925398 But later in the thread stated there were changes to incursions more or less ready to deploy but were pending release.
Same thread also states an intent to possibly reduce bounties to address inflation issues |
highonpop
Void.Tech BLACK-MARK
28
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Posted - 2012.03.14 19:23:00 -
[90] - Quote
Azure Moonlight wrote:Most ****** change in months and it wasnt even in the patch notes.
CCP, just realize not everybody wants to do 0.0 PvP or your inbalanced uber-****** high sec incursions, which you wont even admit are completely and utterly imbalanced and ****** up the complete economy of Eve during the past few months.
God damnit!
Back to the good old days, where listening to the players was not necessary, because you knew better anyway?
More ISK is distributed through RAT BOUNTIES than Incursions and Level 4 missions COMBINED |
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