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Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.17 17:59:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 17/06/2008 18:02:02 CCP's mechanic of not allowing alliances to participate in FW is having consequences. I lay no judgment on these consequences -- whether they are good or bad is a matter of perspective.
Simply, PvP alliances that do not take the 'pirate in empire' route are dieing. There is absolutely no growth in the numbers of the top 30 or so alliance rankings since FW was introduced. Moreover, some PvP alliances are now bleeding members and alts into FW.
The reasons are simple: 1 Casual pvp on demand, with plenty of newbies to kill. This is especially true if one is in the Minmatar or Gallente factions and can kill the bloated Caldari faction. 2 PvP free of capital ship blobs, Titans, doomsdays, motherships and other such nonsense 3 PvP free of hidden blobs, such as from jump bridges 4 lack of bubbles, so a lower risk of podding -- you are more able to more freely use implant sets such as snakes or slaves 5 Ease of resupply in empire
It is almost certain empire alliances like Privateers are going to be no more -- although the corporations and members themselves will probably stay together under a faction, the alliance itself will die.
Similarly, many more 0.0 alliances' member who PvP frequently will find themselves gravitating towards factional warfare, either through alts or mains. Alliances like CVA, Pandemic Legion, and Goonswarm are also going to feel pain.
The only use of 0.0 will be for ISK and the PvP that will occur will be the infrequent fights that result over stations and moons. The infrequent nature 0.0 PvP will mean that more and more PvP minded pilots will join FW -- this development will only feed itself until theres not many actual PvP characters left.
Alliances will collapse. Holding alliances will be formed, with most actual players in FW corps. The only alliances that will survive this are carebear types whose goal is something other than PvP.
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:02:00 -
[2]
Five words:
Promethium. Dysprosium. Supply. Demand. Escalation. --
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Murtala
Mushin Market
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:04:00 -
[3]
yeah, it is the end of Bob, Goons and RA etc.
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Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:06:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Haradgrim Five words:
Promethium. Dysprosium. Supply. Demand. Escalation.
Infrequent fights over the span of days that will usually result in capital blobbage. I don't think greed alone will keep things alive.
Oh, and to the poster that mentioned BoB: no, BoB will survive this .
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Toman Jerich
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:11:00 -
[5]
Some people PVP to have good fights and blow up ships. FW looks good for that.
Some people PVP to make their enemies quit the game by destroying trillions in enemy assets, bringing to ruin the fruits of months of enemy work, and demolishing enemy positive self-perception.
0.0 will still be the place for people who like PVP with significant consequences.
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darkin here
Is Usually Right
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:12:00 -
[6]
to the OP
I've heard of talking out of your azz, but typing out of it? impressive
FYI Redswarm have lost 40% of their membership to gall navy. honest
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
Originally by: Haradgrim Five words:
Promethium. Dysprosium. Supply. Demand. Escalation.
Infrequent fights over the span of days that will usually result in capital blobbage. I don't think greed alone will keep things alive.
Oh, and to the poster that mentioned BoB: no, BoB will survive this .
Why infrequent? Personally I believe greed is what makes EVE's game mechanics possible.
As for t2 materials, they are too profitable to not be fought over and considering the fact that FW is mostly a massive ISK sink.... I don't think there is anything to fear in that regard.
Provided something major isn't changed regarding rare moon materials you can expect the games largest power blocs to be those that reside in the space where the moons exist simply because profit = players, if an alliance is making isk hand over fist and needs more pilots to protect their sovreign space...do you really think it will be an issue (i.e. here have free/cheap tech 2 ships and caps if you fight for us...)? --
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Toman Jerich
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:15:00 -
[8]
Over the really really long term 0.0 might end up looking like it does on the chinese server, unless there are game mechanics changes. But by the time it reached that point a better game internet spaceships game will probably come out.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:17:00 -
[9]
FW is CounterStrike- cheap, fun, instant and meaningless.
Alliance warfare is Civilization- empire building, diplomacy, large scale strategy, with added pew pew and multiplayer fun.
They're both fine for what they're fine at, but they're not the same. The people who are drawn to Alliance warfare will still be drawn to Alliance warfare. And if anything, a bit of relief on the numbers of people entering Alliance warfare could be a good thing; 0.0 has been getting more and more crowded and difficult to get in to as the years have gone by, and will continue to get so for as long as EVE's player base increases. Giving players an excuse to PvP in the largely deserted low-sec space is a great way of spreading players about. ------
Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
King Leopold
Congo Free State
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:18:00 -
[10]
I tend to really agree with the OP. Fact is, pvp is now in the hands of the masses. I was in Agoze the other night and there was 60 in local duking it out - it was a fantastic light show with masses of t1 cruisers and frigates slugging it out over a contested stronghold. Absolutely no force cohesion or order of batter, just "boom.. boom, bang.. POW!".. great light show.
But back to the OP, this will allow a great many into pvp and I think the overall effect will be quite interesting. Now, no longer do you need to pirate to pvp and move to 0.0 - now you can blast away at anyone in empire and now worry about sec status. You now need to download ombey's maps to learn how to traverse hostile faction territory, and learn how to properly fit a ship. All these things are great for new players, since MANY just don't do it enough. They can participate in fleets and learn proper order of battle (how units are organized).
If the new player community can sustain their losses and fight effectively in small to mid-size fleets, this I believe will be a very good change to Eve.
I think all of what the OP noted as "good" things for FW are indeed .. good things. Being that I've fought a ton in 0.0 and pirated (hate grinding sec status), I believe many more new 0.0 alliance recruits will be much better fighters. --
Read my Blog - Congo Free State
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Toman Jerich Over the really really long term 0.0 might end up looking like it does on the chinese server, unless there are game mechanics changes. But by the time it reached that point a better game internet spaceships game will probably come out.
I strongly believe that language barriers and timezone differences will keep that from happening. These things act like natural geographical borders so while 0.0 may end up looking like an oligarchy with a few massive power blocs controlling the whole thing, it will never be 1 uniform bloc. --
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:23:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 17/06/2008 18:24:44
Originally by: Patch86 FW is CounterStrike- cheap, fun, instant and meaningless.
Alliance warfare is Civilization- empire building, diplomacy, large scale strategy, with added pew pew and multiplayer fun.
What you say is very true, but look at the popularity of Counterstrike versus Civilization. Look at the rapid growth of militias since the release -- they have more players now than BoB and Goonswarm combined.
If an alliance like 'paper tiger' Triumvirate were alive today, would they survive FW? I think not.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:24:00 -
[13]
if i felt like playing with a bunch of ******* pubbies in low sec i wouldn't be here in 0.0 Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dramaticus if i felt like playing with a bunch of ******* pubbies in low sec i wouldn't be here in 0.0
but you have battlestars in your alliance BOOSH Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Moctobot
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Haradgrim Promethium. Dysprosium.
both exist in lowsec
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Moctobot
Originally by: Haradgrim Promethium. Dysprosium.
both exist in lowsec
so do belt rats, it doesn't mean it makes more sense to rat there then 0.0 --
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Mistress Ingrid
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:54:00 -
[17]
FWIW in my little corner of 0.0 all the pirates have evaporated since FW lauched. I don't really understand the motivations behind pirating, so I can't speculate on how long it will last, but it's safer in 0.0 than in empire these days. |
LoKesh
InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:56:00 -
[18]
I don't think you have the correct feel for alliance growth or for the mentality of the major 0.0 alliances.
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
There is absolutely no growth in the numbers of the top 30 or so alliance rankings since FW was introduced. Moreover, some PvP alliances are now bleeding members and alts into FW.
My info is coming from here, btw - http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancerank.asp?Sov=OFF
A characteristic common to the the top 10 alliances is that they're rather static. These groups are well established and have obtained sufficient resources (members, isk, ships, raw materials) to meet their needs. Changes in the size of these groups comes infrequently when they gain or lose a corporation.
Looking beyond the top 10, I believe any changes you see are probably part of a longer trend and can be explain due to some ongoing issue. (Conflict with another alliance, such as the ongoing drop in IAC at #12)
Truthfully, a week isn't enough time to identify any new trends.
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
The reasons are simple: 1 Casual pvp on demand, with plenty of newbies to kill. This is especially true if one is in the Minmatar or Gallente factions and can kill the bloated Caldari faction. 2 PvP free of capital ship blobs, Titans, doomsdays, motherships and other such nonsense 3 PvP free of hidden blobs, such as from jump bridges 4 lack of bubbles, so a lower risk of podding -- you are more able to more freely use implant sets such as snakes or slaves 5 Ease of resupply in empire
As a few people have alluded to above, I think you're missing the draw of empire building. Yes, in FW you're fighting over claimable systems - but you're doing so within the (rather artificial) rules and limitations set down by CCP. 0.0 is much more open - you can capture space, you have to defend it all yourself and you can build infrastructure (or destroy it) to further your goals.
The stable 0.0 alliances are the ones with enough infrastructure to cover their logistic needs (major hint there for people starting an alliance, btw). This means re-supply is part of the PvP.
There is, in fact, 0.0 PvP that doesn't involve blobs. Those 'infrequent' battles you predicted - those are the ones likely to have blobs. Plenty of things center around freedom of movement and smaller gate camps.
You have a point with #1 and #4 - the casual nature of things makes this a good point for people to experiment with PvP. I predict that it will reach it's limit due to organizational issues though (people in 0.0 alliance join with an understand of who is in charge, etc, etc - and if they don't like it they leave... or split the group). If you don't like your faction, you may not have much choice. PvP will likely stay ad hoc without alot of true long term thinking (a notion that is supported by the inability to do things like build or really capture outposts)
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris It is almost certain empire alliances like Privateers are going to be no more -- although the corporations and members themselves will probably stay together under a faction, the alliance itself will die.
Privateers existed to run multiple war decs to provide their members with easy and plentiful targets. I think the changes in how wars worked really hurt their popularity anyway. Yes, a good alternative for them would be to join a faction - thus providing targets. These targets may be more prepared to fight back though. We'll see :)
All-in-all, I don't think you understand what drives us 0.0 types. FW sounds like a nifty game mechanic, but it is much different than what draws us to 0.0
xFoundation, xVC, xRISE Proudly serving Skunk-Works |
Death4free
Darkstar Industrial
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Toman Jerich Over the really really long term 0.0 might end up looking like it does on the chinese server, unless there are game mechanics changes. But by the time it reached that point a better game internet spaceships game will probably come out.
meh the russian overlords will already have enslaved all of eve by then using the trillions farmed from their moon mining.
Eve information kiosk
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Omeega
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:59:00 -
[20]
Honest post, honest answer.
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
The reasons are simple: 1 Casual pvp on demand, with plenty of newbies to kill.
If you're looking to actualy get into the higher level, 0.0 at a small (Outbreak), medium (Pandemic Legion) or larger (RSF...) scale, is still the way to go to make the biggest progress and fight the empires that are including the most skilled people - logistics, strategy, intelligence and cold-blooded.
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
2 PvP free of capital ship blobs, Titans, doomsdays, motherships and other such nonsense
It's not a thread to discuss weather the addition of (super) caps has been positive or not to EVE. But in the end, we've all adapted and are all trying to fix the last nonsense parts you're talking about (like the remote-dd etc...that have already been fixed)
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
3 PvP free of hidden blobs, such as from jump bridges
Once again, jump bridges are a parameter to take in count if you're a good strategist. They have lots of pros and cons, still few issues (like beeing able to work under a cynojammed system...) But i'm pretty sure you can't talk about hidden blobs.
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
4 lack of bubbles, so a lower risk of podding -- you are more able to more freely use implant sets such as snakes or slaves
Well, I'd say #1 caracteristic of EVE is the fact that you're daily risking real assets (compared to the WOW gameplay), therefore beeing able to play "safer" tends to remove this adrenaline going hand in hand with the EVE-O gaming.
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
5 Ease of resupply in empire
Yeah well, ok, I can't realy comment that point :)
Tot plegat, I'm still convinced that FW can give you some small and intensive fight. I'm also convinced that it has been a pretty smart decision by CCP to slowly transfer people from 0.5+ to 0.1+ systems.
People are discovering more, fleets, gang chats, fleet commands and so on. The whole thing is even getting pretty good as we see some old 0.0 vets get invested into this FW wars and gangs, passing some of their knowledge.
Anyways, I'm sure FW won't replace 0.0 fights, and that 0.0 fights are the endgame FW in a matter (if we could remove the lag of course!).
Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
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Omeega
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:03:00 -
[21]
Hmm the endgame part is not realy true.
Let's say 0.0 and FW are quite different, some old vets joined to have a taste of the old days (when BS's were rare) and new players are joining to get on a superior PVPing level.
All around it's all positive!
Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
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Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:05:00 -
[22]
Popping noobs is fun but gets old, you can try improving your setup each new run but at the end of the day if you are primary in the blob you die.
0.0 pvp has depth in the form of strategy and organization. So no, op is wrong and also sounds abit like a "oh god 0.0" rant.
- Gob
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:09:00 -
[23]
What Omeega said. (I can't believe I just wrote that) --
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
The reasons are simple: 1 Casual pvp on demand, with plenty of newbies to kill. This is especially true if one is in the Minmatar or Gallente factions and can kill the bloated Caldari faction. 2 PvP free of capital ship blobs, Titans, doomsdays, motherships and other such nonsense 3 PvP free of hidden blobs, such as from jump bridges 4 lack of bubbles, so a lower risk of podding -- you are more able to more freely use implant sets such as snakes or slaves 5 Ease of resupply in empire
This.
If you're not dependent on moon income, which I ain't, then frankly you'd have to be crazy to 'do pvp' in 0.0
Game mechanics such as bubbles, titans, jump bridges, 30 carrier hotdrops etc are all damps on FUN pvp, and FW is very veryvery fun (so far anyway, we'll see how it develops)
You forgot 'compulsory operations' and 'pos timers'. More reasons to loathe 0.0 alliance 'pvp'
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Popping noobs is fun but gets old, you can try improving your setup each new run but at the end of the day if you are primary in the blob you die.
0.0 pvp has depth in the form of strategy and organization. So no, op is wrong and also sounds abit like a "oh god 0.0" rant.
- Gob
You're just making assumptions about FW and you're wrong. Its NOT all nublets at all. FW has attracted some excellent PVP corps. If you avoid the silly blobs (easy to do) then there are some very fun and challenging small gang fights to be had, the likes of which are very rare in 0.0 space these days
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Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:20:00 -
[26]
I'm going to have to agree with Butter Dog *shudder*
It's all about options -- in a factional warfare corp, you can practically do whatever you want in 0.0 short of claiming stations -- but you can easily do with with alt holding alliances.
Being in a real alliance, you can't take a full part in factional warfare and are limited in ways which you can take part. Factional warfare is already the PvP center of Eve right now in terms of numbers of ships blown up, and that's just one week after the release.
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Omeega
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris I'm going to have to agree with Butter Dog *shudder*
It's all about options -- in a factional warfare corp, you can practically do whatever you want in 0.0 short of claiming stations -- but you can easily do with with alt holding alliances.
Being in a real alliance, you can't take a full part in factional warfare and are limited in ways which you can take part. Factional warfare is already the PvP center of Eve right now in terms of numbers of ships blown up, and that's just one week after the release.
Yes but I chose 0.0 warfare, because it's the most elaborate gaming experience - want it or not.
Each of your steps has to be deeply studied before beeing done and that's absolutely not the case in empire.
Politics, relationships, history, propaganda, logistics are all aspects that personaly add to this game his entire difference and reason to be played.
I'm just afraid that FW is going to become like the WOW battlegrounds, when you're looking for cheap kills to get points, rather than pursuing a real founded ideology like CVA for amarrians or, in my case, old grudges that have been kept awake those five last years.
Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
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Captain Shocker
eXtended Corporation 24
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:42:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Captain Shocker on 17/06/2008 19:43:12
You're just making assumptions about FW and you're wrong. Its NOT all nublets at all. FW has attracted some excellent PVP corps. If you avoid the silly blobs (easy to do) then there are some very fun and challenging small gang fights to be had, the likes of which are very rare in 0.0 space these days
Agreed. The assumption that everyone in FW is on a 14 day trial and doesnt know what hardeners do is false. I think your giving alot of null sec pvpers alot of credit without warrant. Most alliances rely on a small percentage(relative to the alliance and the mission of said alliance) who are more than capable to hold there own anywhere while the rest are nothing but glorified "deathblobs" that try to outlast the other deathblob.
And to touch on the point of pirates and mercs disappearing to fw its pretty simple.
1)if im not mistaken you can salvage wrecks just like anywhere else. Im sure a few faction fittings have been scooped for isk/fitting purposes(see RA thread)
2) Gatecamping is not fun. With the invention of jumpfreighters less profitable as well. True you may get the noob badger pilot with t1 stuff but meh.
3) proof of your superiority. Since eves inception pirates are looked at as low-sec griefers who couldnt cut it in a "real" alliance. Now they have a forum to prove otherwise.
4)FW is fun. Isnt that why we all play?
Alliances are not going anywhere but as Goons/RA blue everyone then un-blue them at there convinece alot will say to hell with it and migrate to FW. But in a cp bashing world thumbs up to them for it. Now fix large fleet lag and i may have a different opinion about things.
-The Shocker
EDIT: For spelling
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Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris I'm going to have to agree with Butter Dog *shudder*
It's all about options -- in a factional warfare corp, you can practically do whatever you want in 0.0 short of claiming stations -- but you can easily do with with alt holding alliances.
Being in a real alliance, you can't take a full part in factional warfare and are limited in ways which you can take part. Factional warfare is already the PvP center of Eve right now in terms of numbers of ships blown up, and that's just one week after the release.
the ships to blow up will go down not up after the novelty effect is gone imo, also butter dog: so the people who didnt really manage to adapt to 0.0 changes like bridges and caps use FW as a time machine to 2006 where they can still feel good? (sorry if I sound a bit harsh)
- Gob
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Omeega
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Butter Dog
If you're not dependent on moon income, which I ain't, then frankly you'd have to be crazy to 'do pvp' in 0.0
I am not dependent of the moon income. Moon income is a huge game mechanics that helps me accomplish my gaming experience.
I can develop my character, his ships, his assets, my corpmate's ships, skills, group cohesion etc...
Originally by: Butter Dog
Game mechanics such as bubbles, titans, jump bridges, 30 carrier hotdrops etc are all damps on FUN pvp, and FW is very veryvery fun (so far anyway, we'll see how it develops)
It's not because you've not been able to use those features CCP offered you (or didn't want to, please, it's not a personal grudge or attack) at their full extent that you should generalise and say they are damps on FUN pvp.
I've yet to see something more amazing than beeing hotdropped or hotdropping a fleet, evolving with an enemy titan in system and so on. Screams, silence, orders, surprise, fear and deception, that's why I play in 0.0.
Sure small PVP warfare is good, but it has nothing to do with the biggest 0.0 fleetfights, wich issues will have lot's of effects on your future stations, isk income and home. I think FW is a shame because you lose that aspect to fight for your land and your survival.
You, on the other hand it's why you find it so great, you login, gank a few guys (Mostly new players though- not saying it's only "noobs", I'm saying it's mainly new players). When you lose your ship you prolly login a Mission alt or invention alt to do a few isks. Then you logoff, rince and repeat.
My gaming cycle is a bit different as, all my actions are decisive on what will happen the next days, weeks and months.
So, in the end, the question is not what's broken with the game's features, it's what you chose to use, and the way you want to play your game.
Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Game mechanics such as bubbles, titans, jump bridges, 30 carrier hotdrops etc are all damps on FUN pvp, and FW is very veryvery fun (so far anyway, we'll see how it develops)
You forgot 'compulsory operations' and 'pos timers'. More reasons to loathe 0.0 alliance 'pvp'
I didn't really enjoy pvp until getting into capitals so yeah none of what you typed is exactly fact. Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Severe Admin
Blind Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Butter Dog
Game mechanics such as bubbles, titans, jump bridges, 30 carrier hotdrops etc are all damps on FUN pvp, and FW is very veryvery fun (so far anyway, we'll see how it develops)
You forgot 'compulsory operations' and 'pos timers'. More reasons to loathe 0.0 alliance 'pvp'
I didn't really enjoy pvp until getting into capitals so yeah none of what you typed is exactly fact.
your goonswarm so none of what you typed actually matters...
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:17:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Severe Admin
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Butter Dog
Game mechanics such as bubbles, titans, jump bridges, 30 carrier hotdrops etc are all damps on FUN pvp, and FW is very veryvery fun (so far anyway, we'll see how it develops)
You forgot 'compulsory operations' and 'pos timers'. More reasons to loathe 0.0 alliance 'pvp'
I didn't really enjoy pvp until getting into capitals so yeah none of what you typed is exactly fact.
your goonswarm so none of what you typed actually matters...
OH :ICEBURN: Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:21:00 -
[34]
I'll pose the question in a different way:
If you were a leader of a PvP alliance and saw many of your members/alts leaving for FW, what should you do, if anything?
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Athon NooB
Silver Dragon Defense Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:22:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
2 PvP free of capital ship blobs, Titans, doomsdays, motherships and other such nonsense
That was true until a few hours ago when the Gallente decided to use a carrier to give gang support in Tama, I believe things will now escalate rapidly. I know the Caldari capital fleet is itching to go.
Athon
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Omeega
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
If you were a leader of a PvP alliance and saw many of your members/alts leaving for FW, what should you do, if anything?
Re-center your alliances goals, inform your members better, get your members more involved with the alliance developement.
You can also do some internal cleanup, or simply go to war with an enemy alliance.
But of course, if your alliance members are not willing to go for the huge investment that is a 0.0 war including an invasion, capital ships intervention and POS/Sov mechanics then you should just re-think why you've moved to 0.0.
Think and maybe understand that you should just stick to FW, that will provide some easy and hearth-lighted (no clue if this exists) PVP rather than risking to lose your home due to some poor member stamina and dedication.
Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
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FellRaven
GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 17/06/2008 18:02:02 ....Simply, PvP alliances that do not take the 'pirate in empire' route are dieing.................It is almost certain empire alliances like Privateers are going to be no more
I'm I the only one that spotted the obvious contradiction here.
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Haywoode Jablome
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:52:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Haywoode Jablome on 17/06/2008 20:52:58 Nah, the PVP fun yes, the logistical backbone no(t yet), to conquer and own space no(t yet)... big bucks no(t yet)... building something you own like pos'es and jump bridges no(t yet)...
But that's all the same when Alliances first started.
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Arwaan
Serenity Syndicate Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:55:00 -
[39]
Well, Omega and Ariko, you two have very different reasons to log in every day. And it is perfectly fine for everyone is to play the game as he or she sees fit.
But the question remains, and only time will tell if FW will start bleeding enough characters and timeplay from the 0.0 alliances to make them incapable of achieving objectives. Actually with the rise in mumbers of capitals it was shown that a space holding alliance needs a critical mass to be able to maintain itself.
Two scenarios come in my mind.
1. More and more people will be drawn to FW. Alliances that will go below the critical mass (around 1000 players atm) will fade and merge together building two - three superblocks reigning over huge ammounts of porous space. But most of 0.0 will be open for miners and ratters who need to replenish losses from FW. Noone can defend all systems. Gatecamps will be revived as these people will not have access to the cyno nets and any staging poses will be swiftly blown up. Prices might raise a lot due to the huge isk sing.
2. FW will prove to be a training ground for players that will afterwards make the step to 0.0 alliances, after having tasted blood, getting pwned one too many times by pirates and getting tired of the pressure on their wallets.
That is if CCP does not introduce some other game mechanic changes.
Anyway, one-off couterstrike-like fights have been available for a long time on sisi.
Otoh, medium alliances have been folding one by one since last spring, so without these entities i wonder if eve has not started to destroy itself. "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam." I'll find a way or make one. |
darkin here
Is Usually Right
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris I'll pose the question in a different way:
If you were a leader of a PvP alliance and saw many of your members/alts leaving for FW, what should you do, if anything?
Cry a little at spaceship game empire crumbling, buy AoC, swong swordz and chop headz, hit bong, jerk off to Azn ****, cry a little, etc
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chota
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:04:00 -
[41]
I did the 0.0 thing up untill FW came out. The great thing about FW is the simplicity.Just undock, fly a couple of jumps and start shooting. If you lose a ship a new one can be found(empire prices) less than 10 jumps away. For me 0.0 sometimes felt more like a job than a game. Replacing a hac could mean using the few hours I have to play on a weekday replacing the ship. Now I can be back in business on the battlefield in 30 mins. A good 0.0 roam will last 2-4 hours and most likely go 40+ jumps, if you log on 30 mins after the fleet leaves most likely you are out of luck that day. With FW there is always a fleet going within a few jumps with no bubble camps to run.
How big of an effect FW will have on 0.0 alliances remains to be seen.
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Belch Verbyl
hunter killers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:07:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Belch Verbyl on 17/06/2008 21:12:08
Originally by: Omeega
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
If you were a leader of a PvP alliance and saw many of your members/alts leaving for FW, what should you do, if anything?
Re-center your alliances goals, inform your members better, get your members more involved with the alliance developement.
You can also do some internal cleanup, or simply go to war with an enemy alliance.
But of course, if your alliance members are not willing to go for the huge investment that is a 0.0 war including an invasion, capital ships intervention and POS/Sov mechanics then you should just re-think why you've moved to 0.0.
The vast majority of players had to choose in the past, either PVP and make a chance in 0.0 by joining larger entities with all it's organization and all other things that come along with doing some pewpew, since eve is one of the best in graphical views ever seen in a game, or stay doing missions in empire doing the theme park over and over again.
The vast majority of eve aren't the 24/7 hardcore mmo players that play that much, you may think so, but look around you, and come to the conclusion that most of the people that you have in your alliance aren't this way. Maybe you should look at your playerbase, the onces that are on the field, the ones that are on the bazaar and not in your cathedral.
Now with that in mind you actually can see why CCP is aiming at those players, that is where the RL ISK is.
Quote:
Think and maybe understand that you should just stick to FW, that will provide some easy and hearth-lighted (no clue if this exists) PVP rather than risking to lose your home due to some poor member stamina and dedication.
Think and maybe understand that you are one of the few that have this idea, look at the masses that helped you build your alliance. Draw the conclusion that most of the people see this as a game and have more RL interests and see this excitement as relaxation.
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Jasmine Kiri
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:09:00 -
[43]
One thing you never see in you inbox if your fighting in FW:
This will be an alarm clock op. I expect everyone to be in system XXXX with either a fleet fit BS or a support cruiser(Recon/Logistics). Anyone online and not in fleet must have good explanation or they WILL get kicked from corp.
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Ryuga VonRhaiden
Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 17/06/2008 18:24:44
Originally by: Patch86 FW is CounterStrike- cheap, fun, instant and meaningless.
Alliance warfare is Civilization- empire building, diplomacy, large scale strategy, with added pew pew and multiplayer fun.
What you say is very true, but look at the popularity of Counterstrike versus Civilization.
Well, you can also look at the popularity of World of Warcraft vs Eve Online... is that really the way you choose the best game? ;)
Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature. |
Ebodhisatva
The Templars Knights
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:23:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ryuga VonRhaiden
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 17/06/2008 18:24:44
Originally by: Patch86 FW is CounterStrike- cheap, fun, instant and meaningless.
Alliance warfare is Civilization- empire building, diplomacy, large scale strategy, with added pew pew and multiplayer fun.
What you say is very true, but look at the popularity of Counterstrike versus Civilization.
Well, you can also look at the popularity of World of Warcraft vs Eve Online... is that really the way you choose the best game? ;)
Well the Firewoarxxx in EVE is so much better compared to any game where more players are included
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:23:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jasmine Kiri One thing you never see in you inbox if your fighting in FW:
This will be an alarm clock op. I expect everyone to be in system XXXX with either a fleet fit BS or a support cruiser(Recon/Logistics). Anyone online and not in fleet must have good explanation or they WILL get kicked from corp.
never see that in goonswarm either v0v Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:35:00 -
[47]
no not believin in yourself
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Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:39:00 -
[48]
Omeega's got it nailed - if you bleed pilots, it's because they want fun, who in their right mind would try and prevent that?
If you alliance dies because of it, so what? Do something else.
YOU do what YOU want to in the game.
For ourselves, we're completely supporting our guys doing factional warfare - it's fun and it's different, fair play to them. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:41:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dianabolic Omeega's got it nailed - if you bleed pilots, it's because they want fun, who in their right mind would try and prevent that?
If you alliance dies because of it, so what? Do something else.
YOU do what YOU want to in the game.
For ourselves, we're completely supporting our guys doing factional warfare - it's fun and it's different, fair play to them.
Which faction?
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Tzujeih
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:42:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Severe Admin
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Butter Dog
Game mechanics such as bubbles, titans, jump bridges, 30 carrier hotdrops etc are all damps on FUN pvp, and FW is very veryvery fun (so far anyway, we'll see how it develops)
You forgot 'compulsory operations' and 'pos timers'. More reasons to loathe 0.0 alliance 'pvp'
I didn't really enjoy pvp until getting into capitals so yeah none of what you typed is exactly fact.
your goonswarm so none of what you typed actually matters...
oh hi thar alt of someone we rofflestomped out of 0.0
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:49:00 -
[51]
Oh ISS how we miss thee.
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EzSnake
Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.17 21:51:00 -
[52]
Edited by: EzSnake on 17/06/2008 21:52:05 Oh the world is falling ...the world is falling!!!!
OMG there is NO MORE PVP in 0.0 ANYWHERE!! We are all doomed
Get out of EMPIRE........ROOKIE!
____________________________________
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:01:00 -
[53]
Originally by: EzSnake Edited by: EzSnake on 17/06/2008 21:52:05 Oh the world is falling ...the world is falling!!!!
OMG there is NO MORE PVP in 0.0 ANYWHERE!! We are all doomed
Get out of EMPIRE........ROOKIE!
Yes, and perhaps they could move to the North and join a great alliance like IRON or MM or Pure, with nothing but reds 100 jumps in every direction.
The only good thing about the northern alliances is they are a great place to stick an NPC'ing macro.
----------
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PsychoBones
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:03:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Dramaticus if i felt like playing with a bunch of ******* pubbies in low sec i wouldn't be here in 0.0
but you have battlestars in your alliance BOOSH
No idea how the hell you can stand being in the same alliance as those idiots. They're all a bunch of pubbies who suck at poasting.
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Captain Shocker
eXtended Corporation 24
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: EzSnake Edited by: EzSnake on 17/06/2008 21:52:05 Oh the world is falling ...the world is falling!!!!
OMG there is NO MORE PVP in 0.0 ANYWHERE!! We are all doomed
Get out of EMPIRE........ROOKIE!
Is this ironic or hypocritical??..discuss
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Loki Dyzon
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Omeega
All around it's all positive!
I love you Omeega
(Hugs you in a gaayish way)
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Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:30:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Dianabolic Omeega's got it nailed - if you bleed pilots, it's because they want fun, who in their right mind would try and prevent that?
If you alliance dies because of it, so what? Do something else.
YOU do what YOU want to in the game.
For ourselves, we're completely supporting our guys doing factional warfare - it's fun and it's different, fair play to them.
Which faction?
I think we've got guys fighting for all the factions. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
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Rajere
No Trademark The OSS
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:37:00 -
[58]
Quote: Simply, PvP alliances that do not take the 'pirate in empire' route are dieing.
Embrace your innner outlaw and problem solved.
Our corp went from 25% of membership at -5.0 or worse to ~75% of membership at -5.0 or worse in the span of oh about 4 days.
Also it may not be "Cap Blob: Online" in FW yet, but we have been hit by Mothership + carrier/dreads already. Was a good trap, we took the bait and hot dropped a lone carrier outside defenseless POS shields, kinda expected it to happen.
NOTR |
JeremyCrow
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:41:00 -
[59]
Edited by: JeremyCrow on 17/06/2008 22:42:35 I think in the near future you'll have the opposite migration... carebear players who tasted PVP and find that FW is kinda pointless (besides the huge instant fun) and migrate to a 0.0 alliance to fight for something more palpable... so it'll even out in the end.
And probably CCP already thought of this and will add some more 0.0 content in the next patches to keep the balance.
Edit: I'm in the Tribal Liberation Force and I don't see it under my avatar... but I see it in a guy a few posts above. Does this mean I can't post in this forum or is it a bug?
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KIAEddZ
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:43:00 -
[60]
huh....
KIA EVE Home
KIA in game Public Channel "KIA"
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Captain Shocker
eXtended Corporation 24
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:46:00 -
[61]
Originally by: JeremyCrow Edited by: JeremyCrow on 17/06/2008 22:42:35 I think in the near future you'll have the opposite migration... carebear players who tasted PVP and find that FW is kinda pointless (besides the huge instant fun) and migrate to a 0.0 alliance to fight for something more palpable... so it'll even out in the end.
And probably CCP already thought of this and will add some more 0.0 content in the next patches to keep the balance.
Edit: I'm in the Tribal Liberation Force and I don't see it under my avatar... but I see it in a guy a few posts above. Does this mean I can't post in this forum or is it a bug?
Thats the purpose of FW. First is ti get people aquanted with pvp for the potential move to 0.0. Second is if you want a break from the politics you have a place to go to keep sharp. Instead of corps trying to push into space after alliance collapse they can just milita up and then move from there.
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Allister Feind
V I R I I
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:48:00 -
[62]
everything will even out over time. people will grow tired of FW and move back out to 0.0 fights and people will leave 0.0 to try the factions. it's just another option in this game that continues to keep me paying my monthly fee for the last 5 years.
my corp is fighting in FW and having the time of our lives. we have people coming back to play that have been gone or mostly gone for the last year or so. most of our guys got caught up playing FPS for the quick fix gaming. now you can get that in Eve. it can only make the game better. jake siskos favorite alt |
DeathsEmbrace
The Renegades Asylum
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Posted - 2008.06.17 22:52:00 -
[63]
00 alliances wil suffer becasue of faction warfare, simply due to the ease and aviliablity of pvp in fw. However, 00 alliances will coninue on because at the core of them are dedicated peeps that care a great deal for the control/assets that they have in 00. For them 00 is the game, low sec and empire is just a nuisence to be dealt with.
For empire baised alliances that don't have the opertunities to learn and grow in eve like 00 alliances, fw will be a much larger issue because of the varitable flood of corps out of their alliances into fw. Industrial alliances will also feel this pressure as those that have spent all their eve careers industrially can finally get a chance to pew pew easily without penalties. But likewise for these alliances its time to adapt. Fw is going to unstabalise a lot of markets due to the shear volume of mods/ships lost and bought to support it. So trade and manufacturing needs are going to grow, strenghtening any of the industrial alliances that grab the cake with both hands as it were.
On the same note, fw is a massive isk sink especially if you like fighting in t2 class ships. Without the 00 access that the big alliances provide there is no easy way to replace the millions even billions lost in a matter of weeks of fw. For those that have the skills or the infrastructure e.g. cap building corps/t2 production corps, this won't be an issue.
What everyone is missing is that fw is effectively the end to piracy. Whilst pirate crop/alliances/players will still roam and gank whoever they can, fw is more attractive for the pvp addicted amoungst us. There is plenty of pvp, its more localised no more hours spent probing/runing low sec system hunting for targets. No more sec penalaty, meaning full empire access for logistics/isk purposes. And the ability to drop it when eve a indivdual/corp wants and go back/move on to whatever else they want to do. To become a pirate is a full time thing, you can't just quit. It takes a lot of man hours and hard work with, but especially without 00 access, to get from -10 to -1.9. With fw this is no longer the case, 24hrs and your out.
The only real disadvantage to fw is the standings loss with the two factions your at war with, but in all honesty thats easier to correct/get around than sec penalties. Likewise it means that certain areas of high sec will no longer be readily availiable for travelling through, not to say they can't just that its much more dangerous to do so.
Is this the end to piracy? No! The hardcore wil still continue to pirate, but the majority will move to fw and relish in the new challenges and fun it provides. As for 00 and empire baised alliances. I think 00 alliances will be tempered in the water of fw, they could even use it to train their future pvp corps. they will bleed members to it, but not in any significant no for long. Empire baised alliances will have to adapt or even use fw to grow. Or face the gradual decline of their member base to the point where they will fall apart at the seems.
Most import though is that like every aspect of eve, some are fun for a while some stay fun, but very few people eve stay to one course of action for the duration of their eve careers, without ever trying and maybe even returning to other aspects of teh game.
Essay over To live is to die, and to die is to give life. Thus pain is a form of euphoria.
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Rebellion
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:00:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Dianabolic Omeega's got it nailed - if you bleed pilots, it's because they want fun, who in their right mind would try and prevent that?
If you alliance dies because of it, so what? Do something else.
YOU do what YOU want to in the game.
For ourselves, we're completely supporting our guys doing factional warfare - it's fun and it's different, fair play to them.
Which faction?
I think we've got guys fighting for all the factions.
FW's like the non test server outlet for everyone in BoB that wants to shoot each other again just like old times. I think CCP hit it well with FW, this should have been around ages ago.
Having 0.0 vets in FW militias will hopefully trickle down some of the discipline developed in 0.0 to the largely untested pilots coming from high sec. This is good. Seriously, the thought of having gangs everywhere as disciplined as our gangs will make for a fantastically challenging EVE. I can only hope it materializes soon.
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Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:04:00 -
[65]
Answer: no.
What a ridiculously stupid question.
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Rajere
No Trademark The OSS
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:05:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Rajere on 17/06/2008 23:06:34
Quote: What everyone is missing is that fw is effectively the end to piracy.
Um what. 5 minutes ago I posted that my corp, No Trademark, has defacto become a Pirate Corporation, due entirely to FW and the rediculous abundance of ships to kill. Seeing a whole lot of corps/alliances that I used to see out in syndicate, now out in lowsec space doing the same thing we are, which is killing everyone indiscriminately.
Also not sure how becoming Kill on Sight in Jita is easier to deal with than sec status, oh wait, they are both dealt with exactly the same, with alts in haulers. Except pirates get to kill haulers and militia corps do not. NOTR |
Re Mi
Funshine Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:08:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris
There is absolutely no growth in the numbers of the top 30 or so alliance rankings since FW was introduced. Moreover, some PvP alliances are now bleeding members and alts into FW.
BoB is growing. Goons are growing. Dunno about the rest.
Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation |
Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:22:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Cippalippus Primus on 17/06/2008 23:22:11 A lot of us are simply not interested in factional warfare. Eve, for me, is what I make out of it. Grudges, politics, strategy. That's 0.0.
FW is fighting for the sake of it, which is good, but not my game. Quite simply, who is interested in player developed content will stay in 0.0, those attracted by fast pvp action or by roleplaying will go play the FW. -clp
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Cautet
Precision Engineering Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:26:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Omeega
Originally by: Butter Dog
Game mechanics such as bubbles, titans, jump bridges, 30 carrier hotdrops etc are all damps on FUN pvp, and FW is very veryvery fun (so far anyway, we'll see how it develops)
It's not because you've not been able to use those features CCP offered you (or didn't want to, please, it's not a personal grudge or attack) at their full extent that you should generalise and say they are damps on FUN pvp.
I've yet to see something more amazing than beeing hotdropped or hotdropping a fleet, evolving with an enemy titan in system and so on. Screams, silence, orders, surprise, fear and deception, that's why I play in 0.0.
Butterdog's Corp has almost 1 cap per pilot, so you are way off the mark suggesting he is not able to use the features CCP has offered. They have also run multiple pos including moon mining top-end ores and dropping deathstars fully manned against multiple enemies. Also, they have gone up against and fought alongside Titans. The Alliance his corp was in also killed a titan. All in the last few months.
Just because someone has a view that a certain area of the game is not fun to them does not mean they do not understand that part of the game or are not able to take full advantage of that area. In fact, it might be that he ends up missing the end game, but equally he might not miss it at all.
Some of the people heading to FW are this type of 0.0 pvper who has done it all, who accepted the pos and cap and supercap game and then faction warfare came along and for the moment at least it seems a more entertaining option.
Personally, I haven't tried FW yet, but will probably use an alt at some point to try it. However, I have noticed alot of good pvpers head down that route, and they seem to be having a blast. I enjoy some elements of large scale alliance warfare but find much tediously boring, as I am sure most do. Also, most of 0.0, especially systems with soverenty are completely dead 99% of the time.
I don't know the long term effects on 0.0 it may in fact lead to an increase in 0.0 pilots, or at least better trained pilots for when they go to 0.0 or it may push most pvpers out of 0.0 leaving only a dedicated core of industrialists and cap pilots. Either way, CCP thanks for adding this content, as anything that gives new options to pilots is a real bonus.
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:39:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/06/2008 23:43:01
Thanks for posting that Cautet, I was thinking of saying something similar but was feeling too lazy.
edit: FW reminds me of the excitement of 0.0 all over again, all those years ago... no bubbles, easy to avoid the blobs, no silly sov 3 mechanics/jump bridges... I'm sorry to say that I think the more content CCP has added to 0.0, the less fun it has become
I play to have fun. Only a very few people I believe truly have fun in 0.0 - those who lead the alliances and play with the politics (if they enjoy that) yes, they will have fun... everyone else will either make isk, or roam 100 jumps desperate for some action before they get DD's / caught in dead end and jump-bridged so they log-off / come home empty handed / get chased back by a blob
I'm sorry but right now 0.0 is just DULL
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Keeves
Sexy Pirate Club
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:45:00 -
[71]
if any certain group is gonna hurt from this its gonna be empire based merc/pvp alliances, fringe pirate alliances, and EVE uni.
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tolons mother
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:48:00 -
[72]
How is this going to hurt eve-u? THis seems like a perfect outlet for their pilots.
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Keeves
Sexy Pirate Club
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:57:00 -
[73]
because now there is a prime place to learn pvp... infact i know alot of pilots who left the uni just for FW.
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Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.18 00:00:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Keeves because now there is a prime place to learn pvp... infact i know alot of pilots who left the uni just for FW.
and thats a bad thing moveing on from eve uni?
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.18 00:07:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
Originally by: Keeves because now there is a prime place to learn pvp... infact i know alot of pilots who left the uni just for FW.
and thats a bad thing moveing on from eve uni?
for eve-uni, yes, which was his point
PS u fail ----------
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Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.18 00:21:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
Originally by: Keeves because now there is a prime place to learn pvp... infact i know alot of pilots who left the uni just for FW.
and thats a bad thing moveing on from eve uni?
for eve-uni, yes, which was his point
PS u fail
no you, died in a nano ship to a pilgrim how fail are you?
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
rValdez5987
32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment
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Posted - 2008.06.18 01:33:00 -
[77]
Quote: FW's like the non test server outlet for everyone in BoB that wants to shoot each other again just like old times. I think CCP hit it well with FW, this should have been around ages ago.
Having 0.0 vets in FW militias will hopefully trickle down some of the discipline developed in 0.0 to the largely untested pilots coming from high sec. This is good. Seriously, the thought of having gangs everywhere as disciplined as our gangs will make for a fantastically challenging EVE. I can only hope it materializes soon.
/Agree
I have noticed some 0.0 players bleeding into the factions, but not the main alliances such as BoB, Goons etc.
I think the guys you will see coming to FW will be from the less popular alliances such as hydra, pure, iron, etc, just players looking for something new.
Either way there are quite a few good pilots, and this is good training for people before they reach 0.0.
What I like so far is the absolute lack of pirates. Low sec right now feels like empire, with the exception that actual empire doesnt have 100 man fleets chasing you around in rifters, thrashers and stabbers.
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Lumen Atra
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:00:00 -
[78]
In this thread we discuss the long term effects of an expansion that has been out a week.
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Venomire
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:31:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Jasmine Kiri One thing you never see in you inbox if your fighting in FW:
This will be an alarm clock op. I expect everyone to be in system XXXX with either a fleet fit BS or a support cruiser(Recon/Logistics). Anyone online and not in fleet must have good explanation or they WILL get kicked from corp.
I don't see those now.
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fugazii
Deep Space Productions
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:08:00 -
[80]
FW seems to be 0.0 pvp of 03/04. Pure pvp, 100 ships is considered a fleet not a roaming gang, none of the forced pve (spaceholding alliance) aspects of 0.0 warfare of 05'+, no bubbles so you can fit your ships to pvp not escape a sphere, and ofc no "omg lag...omg our fleet just woke up in their clone stations".
In nearly 5 years of playing I can finally say "ccp you didn't **** this up".
"There is nothing they can do to counter 5000 f*****g Goons logged in and ready to go." - darius JOHNSON |
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Krystian
Luminaire Atrocity
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:13:00 -
[81]
Yeah they will have to actually treat their members with more than barely tolerable contempt. Lament the roles have been revoked lament.
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Captain Shocker
eXtended Corporation 24
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:27:00 -
[82]
To think.. there is a world where assets and isk are not stolen. Where cascading is not a option and fatcats do not get rich off the backs of the "common folk". yes that world is..... Not existant but fw comes te closest so meh.
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Kyrie Elaison
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:00:00 -
[83]
This is a useful thread. Arghy is the one true God and Dungar is His prophet. |
128th ABC123
Eve Liberation Force Liberty.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 09:30:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Patch86 FW is CounterStrike- cheap, fun, instant and meaningless.
Alliance warfare is Civilization- empire building, diplomacy, large scale strategy, with added pew pew and multiplayer fun.
They're both fine for what they're fine at, but they're not the same. The people who are drawn to Alliance warfare will still be drawn to Alliance warfare. And if anything, a bit of relief on the numbers of people entering Alliance warfare could be a good thing; 0.0 has been getting more and more crowded and difficult to get in to as the years have gone by, and will continue to get so for as long as EVE's player base increases. Giving players an excuse to PvP in the largely deserted low-sec space is a great way of spreading players about.
Agreed. If you've built your little empire from scratch through blood sweat and tears, then the fights become more meaningfull the struggle etc.
FW seems fun and I definitly need to get an alt in there to taste some of it, but I do not think it could hold my interest as long as running my corp/alliance has.
It will definitly have a large appeal to the younger crowd that has less interest in the "boring" stuff (read short attention span and no flame to our younger players, I was like that too at 16) and just wants to shoot.
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Tilta
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.18 09:54:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Lumen Atra In this thread we discuss the long term effects of an expansion that has been out a week.
Seriously. People will optimize their tactics given time, but do continue having a blast in the meanwhile.
Originally by: Captain Shocker Agreed. The assumption that everyone in FW is on a 14 day trial and doesnt know what hardeners do is false. I think your giving alot of null sec pvpers alot of credit without warrant.
True story: Darius JOHNSON, presently CEO of GoonFleet and CSM delegate extraordinaire discovered, hilariously late, that active hardeners are so named because you have to activate them. I think he might've had a character in a Moros by then...
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Cautet
Precision Engineering Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.18 09:55:00 -
[86]
The people who are suggesting FW is abit too shallow for them really need to lose the following misconceptions:
A. players who like faction warfare don't understand 0.0 warfare or are not very good at it. B. players who like faction warfare must be under the age of 16.
0.0 was the end game, and the only real choice for pvpers for a long time. But most of the time 0.0 is not pvp. It is sitting in pos', refueling pos', repping pos', killing pos', fighter lag, numbers lag, cyno chains, mineral chains, alarm clock ops, etc.
For large wars it's months of 8 hour days filled with sitting in a pos or at a gate and not fighting, or pos repping, or pos killing. It's not really pvp and it's not really that fun to most people. Especialy those with wives, children, and full-time jobs, which is why alliances bleed active players the moment there is a decent war on.
The rewards of space holding are also pretty slim for the average player. Just looking at the amounts of isk lost in the average war and compare to the amounts of isk made from top end moons, and you see that these amounts cannot be recouped from winning, but rather from individual players either grinding rats or from GTC's.
Maybe FW will in the end lead to an improvement of 0.0, even if it just means less numbers in 0.0 Alliances, but those numbers being people who really want to be there.
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D2O HeavyWater
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:07:00 -
[87]
I think the starter of the post has a very valid point. I have been trying out FW with my alt, and I gotta say it's superb for a PvP starter or vetran. Unlike a 0.0 alliance there are no commitments, u play when u feel like it, you do what you want to do. No pos bashing, no camping a gate for days on end, no silly 300 vs 300 lag fests & no threat of being booted if you dont turn up on a specific time & date.
After 1 week trial with my alt I have removed my R&R with my mains and from tomorrow I will form my own corp to do FW for the forseeable future.
FW will effect 0.0 alliances but it will be for the better, it helps to spread the PvP population of eve over the whole of eden not just pockets of 0.0. In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
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The Wounded
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:31:00 -
[88]
No
Shortest answer possible on the title
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:19:00 -
[89]
If FW would be better than what BoB has to offer I'd have never left the MC and/or joined a group like TRI/PL or some other roaming/ganking group.
FW is a bit like counterstrike or WoW Battlegrounds, low risk PvP which you can easily hop in and out of without much consequence. -
- |
Nyack
GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:23:00 -
[90]
teh only thing that might effect 0,0 alliances is that they will not get war dec that much. with FW you can find fun pvp in empire without having to war dec people
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:30:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr
FW is a bit like counterstrike or WoW Battlegrounds, low risk PvP which you can easily hop in and out of without much consequence.
I think you have a valid point, though I disagree on the risk analysis (it certainly carries as much risk as any other type of PvP - that of losing your ship).
However, I think the OP's point, and the point of others, is that many of the most active PvPers in the game PREFER that to 0.0 alliance politics and blobbing.
The Sov mechanics and currently static nature of 0.0 powerblocs makes for a certain type of gameplay which many PvPers simply do not enjoy. The uberblobs, compulsory ops to protect someone elses moon income, the lack of enjoyable fights, capital blobs in cynojammed systems etc... the list really does go on... it just doenst appeal to that many people any more.
So if the question, as posed by the OP, is 'will FW bleed PvPers from the static 0.0 alliances' the answer is unquestionably 'yes'.
----------
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:35:00 -
[92]
My point was that I don't see many people from groups like BoB, RA et al leave for FW, because if they would be interested in FW they would have already been in another alliance that focuses more on roaming.
Then again, quite a few of us have alts and can experiment for fun without having to leave our alliance anyway. :)
Go go little Omen Nano Issue. :) -
- |
Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.18 16:32:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 18/06/2008 16:32:23 Moderately skilled corps in factional warfare are already generating a lot of whining in Eve general discussion by low skill/newer players.
There are also reports on crapheap challenged about a smallish corp getting 1000 kills in 3 days.
And looking at the map for ships destroyed, factional warfare/low-sec is the hottest thing going on in terms of PvP.
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DeathsEmbrace
The Renegades Asylum
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Posted - 2008.06.18 17:55:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris And looking at the map for ships destroyed, factional warfare/low-sec is the hottest thing going on in terms of PvP.
Its not only the hottest its also the most challenging pvp I've even encountered. Mainly due to it being utter chaos. Its not like so much 00 pvp with the hotdropping and cap blobs or hughely skilled nano/roaming gangs. More like the famed Bosena cluster f*** on a grander scale. One minute you can be hunting a frig through the gates. The next jump you make might land you in a blue blob system and get your target or right ontop of a large frig cruiser gang that are going to wtfbbqpwn your ass in seconds.
Having scouts is always usufull but because the random pilots and fleets (small gang or blobs) more around so much you may have no warning before there through and on you, not to mention becasue its all so localised you can't avoid most fights if your in anything other than a inty/fast frig or nano cruiser. Theres no way to predict or prepare for the fights as it can degererate into complete and utter chaos with no idea what will happen next. To live is to die, and to die is to give life. Thus pain is a form of euphoria.
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Splagada
Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:08:00 -
[95]
i see it as a privateer love. finally CCP understood also the GOOD points behind this alliance (in the previous form, with the million wardecs)
they just had a pre-FW FW training :) ------
Tides of Silence |
Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:18:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 18/06/2008 16:32:23 Moderately skilled corps in factional warfare are already generating a lot of whining in Eve general discussion by low skill/newer players.
There are also reports on crapheap challenged about a smallish corp getting 1000 kills in 3 days.
And looking at the map for ships destroyed, factional warfare/low-sec is the hottest thing going on in terms of PvP.
Trial by fire ftw! --
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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JeremyCrow
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:29:00 -
[97]
Originally by: JeremyCrow *snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings.-Navigator([email protected])
I guess the moderator didn't get the part where I stated that I am indeed part of the Tribal Liberation Force but that information is not showing below my avatar.
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:37:00 -
[98]
Let us compare...
0.0 Fleet battle: Log on, wait for fleet to form and organize, travel 30 jumps to the target system. Arrive at target system 2 hours into the op. Jump into enemy gatecamp with fleet, black screen for 30 minutes, relog, wait 45 minutes to load back up, wake up in station.
0.0 Roaming gang: Travel 15 jumps, locate Raven in a belt. Warp to belt, Raven disappears. Travel 15 more jumps, locate Raven in belt. Warp to belt, Raven disappears. Travel 15 more jumps to station system, kill a shuttle on the gate. Warp to station, 20 battleships undock, but won't fight. Travel 10 more jumps, run into 50 man blob with carrier support.
Factional Warfare: Hop into local fleet, travel 0-10 jumps, find instant targets.
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Krystian
Luminaire Atrocity
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Posted - 2008.06.18 21:12:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Cautet
A. players who like faction warfare don't understand 0.0 warfare or are not very good at it. B. players who like faction warfare must be under the age of 16.
C. Members of bitter fail sauce alliances.
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PR0D AK71V
Mad Hamster Infestation
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Posted - 2008.06.18 21:26:00 -
[100]
FW is a perfect playground. Not only for those who are under 16. There's a whole group of people that are either burnt out, as in, tired with blobs, caps online, endless gatecamps, etc etc. There's also a whole gorup of people who come back home tired after a stressful day at work, just trying to relax in front of computer. And ther's a group of kids who smack, grief etc. But who cares? I'm playing my game, so I don't.
Plenty of corps joined FW just because there's more fun and targets to be had there.
Did I see 0utbreak recently ? ;P
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.18 21:45:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr
Go go little Omen Nano Issue. :)
Wonderful ship... but not quite Stabber Fleet Issue... oh god I love that puppy :)
----------
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Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.18 23:01:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 18/06/2008 23:02:37 Another major boon for FW is that it's PvP without killmails, essentially, unless you function as one corp/solo without involving other people in your faction.
k/d ratio hoarding, etc... is optional to success.
Major alliances I expect to die/become holding alliances because of FW bleeding within the next 6 months:
Goons PL AAA Cruel Intentions Privateers CVA Daisho ATF Smashkill
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Venomire
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.19 02:30:00 -
[103]
It goes against the grain but I seriously love shooting POS.
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Rajere
No Trademark The OSS
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Posted - 2008.06.19 02:45:00 -
[104]
Quote: Its not only the hottest its also the most challenging pvp I've even encountered. Mainly due to it being utter chaos. Its not like so much 00 pvp with the hotdropping and cap blobs or hughely skilled nano/roaming gangs. More like the famed Bosena cluster f*** on a grander scale. One minute you can be hunting a frig through the gates. The next jump you make might land you in a blue blob system and get your target or right ontop of a large frig cruiser gang that are going to wtfbbqpwn your ass in seconds.
Having scouts is always usufull but because the random pilots and fleets (small gang or blobs) more around so much you may have no warning before there through and on you, not to mention becasue its all so localised you can't avoid most fights if your in anything other than a inty/fast frig or nano cruiser. Theres no way to predict or prepare for the fights as it can degererate into complete and utter chaos with no idea what will happen next. To live is to die, and to die is to give life. Thus pain is a form of euphoria.
funny we roam through it all with plated out trimarked BSes, tanked BCs, and HICs. Think the HIC is the lightest ship we field and we're all blinky red. We watch the pubbie fleets roll through and chase who we can and dock when the 100+ caldari gang comes strolling through. We pretty much pre-engage them and snag a few kills before their fleet can get into system, then dock, before then returning for a nice post-engagement and killing all remaining stragglers. The larger the gang the more stragglers, it's like a single file line of ravens warping into a meat grinder. <3 FW.
Mobility is about comms and about intel, think you just need better scouts tbh. NOTR |
Cautet
Precision Engineering
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 08:07:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Krystian
Originally by: Cautet
A. players who like faction warfare don't understand 0.0 warfare or are not very good at it. B. players who like faction warfare must be under the age of 16.
C. Members of bitter fail sauce alliances.
I don't think you understood my post. I said A and B were MISCONCEPTIONS which were incorrect. So by adding C you are saying this is a MISCONCEPTION also? Or you just felt this thread didn't have enough alt smack and were worry mods might delete it?
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.19 08:48:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr
Go go little Omen Nano Issue. :)
Wonderful ship... but not quite Stabber Fleet Issue... oh god I love that puppy :)
My little alt is one of those Amarr hard liners that just refuses to fly scrap metal bound together by duct tape. :) -
- |
Krystian
Luminaire Atrocity
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Posted - 2008.06.19 10:17:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Cautet I don't think you understood my post. I said A and B were MISCONCEPTIONS which were incorrect. So by adding C you are saying this is a MISCONCEPTION also? Or you just felt this thread didn't have enough alt smack and were worry mods might delete it?
Oh my failure and my apologies for unintended smack. I am just used to the normal smack on these forums and my eyes crossing from blocks of text. Agreed to your original post.
What CCP should do is take note that people are having fun with this form of warfare/pvp. Make a similar but DIFFERENT version for 0.0 if at all possible. Let's face it, no one who plays this game for fun likes POS fighting. It is a long boring exercise that has been killing this game. Now not to alienate the 0.0 crowd still sticking it out I think they should get there own version of this type of PvP WITHOUT POS'S!!!!! Just get rid of them!!! Find something else to harvest moons. POS warfare is boring.
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.19 11:21:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/06/2008 11:21:04 Key difference is that FW people want to fight insted of logoff or station jockey. But the biggist pro for me is that any boring time on my main is compensated by using a FW alt.
So next time I am part of a fleet busting out your pos's, or you see me in local from the safety of a docking station, just remember, I am having loads of fun blowing stuff up in my FW alt on top of the satisfaction of ruining your day by forcing you to dock up with my main!
--
Billion Isk Mission |
PR0D AK71V
Mad Hamster Infestation
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Posted - 2008.06.19 11:49:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/06/2008 11:21:04 Key difference is that FW people want to fight insted of logoff or station jockey. But the biggist pro for me is that any boring time on my main is compensated by using a FW alt.
So next time I am part of a fleet busting out your pos's, or you see me in local from the safety of a docking station, just remember, I am having loads of fun blowing stuff up in my FW alt on top of the satisfaction of ruining your day by forcing you to dock up with my main!
unless my day isn't ruined because I've got an alt in FW ? ;]
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The Hooch
Wolf Tactical Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:41:00 -
[110]
Quote: It is almost certain empire alliances like Privateers are going to be no more -- although the corporations and members themselves will probably stay together under a faction, the alliance itself will die.
Alliances die when they want to.
FW is something is nothing more than state sanctioned pvp. At this time FW is more like the Eve I started playing almost 5 years ago. It has a few bugs but CCP will tweak it I am sure.
At least you can find a fight again without spending a load of isk for a war dec or joining a boring bubble camp in .0 .
With a bit of creative thinking the tradtional empire merc/pirate corps and alliances could make FW a part of their operations with little effort. They just have to decide how they want to do it.
Hooch
Concord punishes people, it does not protect them |
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:41:00 -
[111]
The real winners in this will be the likes of CVA and Ushra'Khan (or however its spelt).
Take CVA. CVA is a full blown Amarr role-player alliance. They are a fairly talented bunch with respect (even if its enemy respect) of the other 0.0 alliances. (Likewise I guess with UK, even if their fortunes haven't been as good over the past year). Where the 0.0 role players stand to uniquely gain, is that their 'storyline' fits neatly with the Faction War 'storyline', so they have the ability to recruit from the FW guys who want something 'bigger' than empire shenanigans, and they have the ability to call on empire for reinforcement.
Goonfleet, BOB or RA I can't see losing members. Those who enjoy 0.0 war, don't enjoy empire war. If they wanted it, they could wardec each other in empire and go nuts there.
The smaller alliances, well perhaps. Hard call.
Best wait till the FW honeymoon is over before making a long term call. ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
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Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.20 03:17:00 -
[112]
No, CVA will be losers in this.
They have already lost 20 members since the start of this topic.
Moreover, the top 20 alliances by rankings have lost a combined count of approximately 1400 members since the start of this topic.
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Corstaad
Vardr ok Lidskjalv Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.20 03:35:00 -
[113]
Sorry but PvP groups will soon grow bored of 100mans running after ceptors. FW is a different twist for newer player to enjoy pvp but its not even close to decent pvp.
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An Anarchyyt
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.20 04:10:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 18/06/2008 23:02:37 Another major boon for FW is that it's PvP without killmails, essentially, unless you function as one corp/solo without involving other people in your faction.
k/d ratio hoarding, etc... is optional to success.
Major alliances I expect to die/become holding alliances because of FW bleeding within the next 6 months:
Goons PL AAA Cruel Intentions Privateers CVA Daisho ATF Smashkill
It's true. Since FW started, we've been losing hundreds of members per day. I don't even think we'll last through the month.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Misanth
Electro Fuels
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Posted - 2008.06.20 05:08:00 -
[115]
Omeega, what the hell did you put in your vodka.. you posted more sense in multiple replies in this thread, than you done totally over 5 years in EVE. Either way, whatever you typed here, /sign on that.
FW just gives an optional pvp-base for those interested in it. My corp is currently in FW, I spent more or less my whole gametime in low-/null-sec, and honestly.. I long back to 0.0.
Nothing bad with FW, it's good in many aspects. But .0 is a totally different gameplay and can't be replaced by faction warfare.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.06.20 05:33:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris but look at the popularity of Counterstrike versus Civilization. Look at the rapid growth of militias since the release -- they have more players now than BoB and Goonswarm combined.
First; Bob and Goonies don't just freely let anyone join their ranks.
Second; these Pvpers will grow to need isk, isk that is mostly in 0.0, ratting and/or mining or complex running. They will be there in time just to use the rich resources in 0.0.
Third; I think that FW will help the alliances as they will be recuiting trained soldiers, as I said back just before FW was released.
Local and Covert cloaking Idea |
Rajere
No Trademark The OSS
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Posted - 2008.06.20 09:14:00 -
[117]
I'm not sure if it will affect 0.0 alliances in the long term but in the near term it certainly has obsoleted places like Syndicate. NOTR |
Angelonico
Series of Tubes
|
Posted - 2008.06.20 09:45:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Cautet
The people who are suggesting FW is abit too shallow for them really need to lose the following misconceptions:
A. players who like faction warfare don't understand 0.0 warfare or are not very good at it. B. players who like faction warfare must be under the age of 16.
Pretty good troll right there.
Also so true, none of us FW people have any experience with 0.0 at all, are all prepubescent, and simply fail to grasp the mechanics of the game from any angle. Every last one of us. Stupid t1 frig noobs tbh, they'll never have any fun. What a bunch of jerks. They're the reason I bleed once a month.
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Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.06.20 09:47:00 -
[119]
Also they raped my mother and killed my father, funded international terrorism, and are ruining eve.
(Tubes is recruiting btw, spys welcome.
Hi Vio.
\o
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.20 11:50:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Angelonico
Originally by: Cautet
The people who are suggesting FW is abit too shallow for them really need to lose the following misconceptions:
A. players who like faction warfare don't understand 0.0 warfare or are not very good at it. B. players who like faction warfare must be under the age of 16.
Pretty good troll right there.
Also so true, none of us FW people have any experience with 0.0 at all, are all prepubescent, and simply fail to grasp the mechanics of the game from any angle. Every last one of us. Stupid t1 frig noobs tbh, they'll never have any fun. What a bunch of jerks. They're the reason I bleed once a month.
I think you should have read his post more carefully before responding ----------
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Acies Minutor
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Posted - 2008.06.20 12:12:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Rajere I'm not sure if it will affect 0.0 alliances in the long term but in the near term it certainly has obsoleted places like Syndicate.
The useless nature of Syndicate and its residents obsoleted Syndicate, not FW.
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Kai Jyokoroi
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:50:00 -
[122]
lol, roleplayers
The reason people are trying out factional warfare is because it's only been out for a week, you muppet. There is NO MONEY in FW, and no shiny toys either.
Gb2 spinning your ship in station.
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Trajan Halbrand
Wolf Tactical Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:56:00 -
[123]
FW won't kill off the 0.0 alliance nor will it kill off the Empire PvP alliances. It just gives the community another option to join the PvP route. As for killing off the Privateers this has been said many times and it hasn't happened yet.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Tri Optimum Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:05:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig so the people who didnt really manage to adapt to 0.0 changes like bridges and caps use FW as a time machine to 2006 where they can still feel good? (sorry if I sound a bit harsh)
- Gob
i guess this might be correct.
i guess there are many players (old and young alike) that know that EVE can be played like a big empire building simulation, but that rather prefer to be the roving hordes of barbarians shooting everything in sight and scare the **** out of everyone by acutally shooting them, not by dropping POSes
yes, FW is atm a big hype. how long it will last? no one knows - i guess it depends how many fall for the thrill of fast paced PvP. ;) it won't cater that much the whole "i want to build something *BIG*" crowd that normally tends to be in one of the powerblock alliances, but more the small-gang PvPers that you can find e.g. in NPC regions.
i wouldn't be surprised if there are many people out there that miss the times where you could actually contest a region without bringing your full capital fleet there to siege some POSes. just by roaming and fleet battles. that even a small force without much financial backing could put the hurt on someone, just by being fast and hard hitting.
yes, FW won't bring these things back, but i guess it's atleast a good fix to get a healthy dose of fast paced and cheap PvP. that's quite alot already, considering that 0.0 PvP is quite often the decision to jump into a bubble-gatecamp twice the size of your gang.
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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The Hooch
Wolf Tactical Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:06:00 -
[125]
Edited by: The Hooch on 20/06/2008 18:06:45 FW is a throw back to the days before bubble camps, POS', Out-Posts, Caps, Titains, DD's and 700 ship lag fests.
If you have played Eve for more than 3 years you remember those days. Days when a heavy server was 7000 and not 40,000. When Yulai contested with Jita as a market hub.
FW has brought some of that "free wheeling" spirit back to Eve. If you are bored in the fabled 0.0 and your guys are looking to put some zip back into the game then give this a try, you will not regret it.
Former Privateers, if you want a taste of the old days prior to the "P-Nerf" give FW a try, what you don't get in loot from the FW fights you will get from the pirates that are horning in the FW combat zones.
The Hooch hath spoken!
Concord punishes people, it does not protect them |
Entelechia
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:45:00 -
[126]
If you guys think FW is going to kill off 0.0 gameplay, you're smoking some good stuff. The types of PvP offered by the two styles of play are entirely different. FW is fast, low risk, low reward PvP. It's WoW battlegrounds with space ships. 0.0 PvP is high risk, high reward, with real consequences and real rewards.
The reality is that some people simply don't want to have to think about their PvP. They want to get in a ship, join a faction, be pointed in a direction and pew pew. That's the extent of the tactical and strategic thought they want to put in to their PvP. FW is great for them.
For people who like to put serious thought in to their PvP (hmm, I wonder if this gate is bubbled? I wonder if I am going to be hot dropped? I wonder if they are going to come pouring through that jump bridge?), 0.0 is still where it's at. FW offers really nothing for players who enjoy that level of game play from EVE.
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:52:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 20/06/2008 18:53:18 FW pvp + Alliance PVP are apples and oranges.
Both are good and both complement each other. They do not replace each other at all. However, if your idea of 0.0 pvp is travaling 40 jumps to kill a wcs cloaking ratter who logsoff, then you are probebly better off with FW. --
Billion Isk Mission |
The Hooch
Wolf Tactical Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.20 19:01:00 -
[128]
Quote: 0.0 PvP is high risk, high reward, with real consequences and real rewards.
You forgot to add boring, slow paced, and pointless. Just say'n...
Hooch
Concord punishes people, it does not protect them |
Kyguard
Game-Over Consortium Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.20 19:38:00 -
[129]
Originally by: The Hooch
Quote: 0.0 PvP is high risk, high reward, with real consequences and real rewards.
You forgot to add boring, slow paced, and pointless. Just say'n...
Hooch
Hardly any of those three if you know what you're doing. -
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Darth Syphils
Noshikkan
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Posted - 2008.06.20 19:41:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Entelechia If you guys think FW is going to kill off 0.0 gameplay, you're smoking some good stuff. The types of PvP offered by the two styles of play are entirely different. FW is fast, low risk, low reward PvP. It's WoW battlegrounds with space ships. 0.0 PvP is high risk, high reward, with real consequences and real rewards.
The reality is that some people simply don't want to have to think about their PvP. They want to get in a ship, join a faction, be pointed in a direction and pew pew. That's the extent of the tactical and strategic thought they want to put in to their PvP. FW is great for them.
For people who like to put serious thought in to their PvP (hmm, I wonder if this gate is bubbled? I wonder if I am going to be hot dropped? I wonder if they are going to come pouring through that jump bridge?), 0.0 is still where it's at. FW offers really nothing for players who enjoy that level of game play from EVE.
LOL like any of that requires thought opposed to just sending a noob alt in to scout.
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Nick Bison
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Posted - 2008.06.20 19:54:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Entelechia ... 0.0 PvP is high risk, high reward, with real consequences and real rewards.
I find the use of the word "real" in regards to a game quite amusing. However, that said, there is a valid point in the styles of PvP practices in 0.0 vice FW being so vastly different that they almost should not be mentioned in the same sentance.
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General Hawke
Shinra Shinra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:03:00 -
[132]
TBH, there are too many alliances in-game as it is. If some of them fold, they should. Carebear alliances are the only one's that will survive? I thought the majority of carebear's were in empire.
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Compliance
Republic of Texas Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:07:00 -
[133]
FW is WoW battlegrounds, 0.0 is WoW 25 man raids
Different strokes for different folks, it's just that the kind of person who prefers "raiding" is just way fatter
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Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:31:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Compliance FW is WoW battlegrounds, 0.0 is WoW 25 man raids
Different strokes for different folks, it's just that the kind of person who prefers "raiding" is just way fatter
er whut?
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.06.21 06:06:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi lol, roleplayers
The reason people are trying out factional warfare is because it's only been out for a week, you muppet. There is NO MONEY in FW, and no shiny toys either.
Gb2 spinning your ship in station.
Other than dysporo moons, where is there any more money in 0.0 than there is in high sec? Also, when did pvp have anything to do with making money?
I'm having fun just killing peeps - and being killed in turn.
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Hebril Amolebin
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Posted - 2008.06.21 06:40:00 -
[136]
Quote: Other than dysporo moons, where is there any more money in 0.0 than there is in high sec? Also, when did pvp have anything to do with making money?
it is simple mate moon reactions,the high value rats and oficers the exploration,this is what give you opportunity ot make money fast,and when you have the money you can play with the expensive toys in pvp and have fun.
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Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.21 20:07:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 21/06/2008 20:08:10 Valuable moons are not limited to 0.0, they are found in low-sec as well.
And no, level 4 missions in empire with a good agent and CNR are usually better than ratting in 0.0 in terms of ISK/hour.
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Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:44:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Ariko Gunaris Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 21/06/2008 20:08:10 Valuable moons are not limited to 0.0, they are found in low-sec as well.
And no, level 4 missions in empire with a good agent and CNR are usually better than ratting in 0.0 in terms of ISK/hour.
Considering you don't have to watch local, i'd consider running level 4's far FAR superior to 0.0 ratting, plexing, or mining. That's just single accounting rushing through as many as possible. A dedicated salvage alt push's level 4's far beyond 0.0, and yes - I've done both for years.
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Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:10:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Hebril Amolebin
Quote: Other than dysporo moons, where is there any more money in 0.0 than there is in high sec? Also, when did pvp have anything to do with making money?
it is simple mate moon reactions,the high value rats and oficers the exploration,this is what give you opportunity ot make money fast,and when you have the money you can play with the expensive toys in pvp and have fun.
the interesting thing is that low sec exploration gives some of the most sought after items so i dont realy think you have that big a point
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:38:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 22/06/2008 11:46:31
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
Originally by: Hebril Amolebin
Quote: Other than dysporo moons, where is there any more money in 0.0 than there is in high sec? Also, when did pvp have anything to do with making money?
it is simple mate moon reactions,the high value rats and oficers the exploration,this is what give you opportunity ot make money fast,and when you have the money you can play with the expensive toys in pvp and have fun.
the interesting thing is that low sec exploration gives some of the most sought after items so i dont realy think you have that big a point
There is also the issue of finding any decent PvP in 0.0 alliance sov space.
To be honest, the way to do it is pretty simple...
1: Insert alt into major powerbloc, run NPC'ing macro (hostile avoidance add-on not required if in a Northern Alliance) 2: Insert PvP main into FW and actually have "fun"
Or if you are not depending on NPC'ing etc for your income (ie you own T2 BPO's etc) you can bypass the whole POS grinding/lagblob/compulsory op b*ll**** and just enjoy yourself playing this little spaceship computer game.
edit: I would also agree with what most people above are saying - there is no 'added risk' in 0.0 PvP and no 'added reward'... the risk is the same (losing your ship) and the rewards are the same, if not greater in Empire space for the average member due to the reasons outlined above... plus you're not ordered to wake up at 4am on a working day to shoot a pos in order to satisfy someones ego and claim a little bit of internet space... maybe we'll all get bored of FW soon, but I doubt it will be *that* soon
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mamolian
Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.06.22 12:50:00 -
[141]
FW interests me.. but the consequences in standing loss puts me off tbh -----------
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Swamp Ziro
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.22 14:57:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/06/2008 14:57:59 CEO: Guys we need to kill x and y for x and y reasons.
RRARARA EGOTISTICAL CAPITALISTS LINING THEIR POCKETS WITH THE WORK OF THE MEMBERSHIP RARARAR
CCP: Guys you should go kill x and y for.... uh... hi :)
AWESOME PVP HIGH FUN LOW RISK NO SUGAR PEPSI MAX I AM THE HUNTER OF THE WOLFPACK
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Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.23 02:05:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 23/06/2008 02:05:19
Originally by: Swamp Ziro Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/06/2008 14:57:59 CEO: Guys we need to kill x and y for x and y reasons.
RRARARA EGOTISTICAL CAPITALISTS LINING THEIR POCKETS WITH THE WORK OF THE MEMBERSHIP RARARAR
CCP: Guys you should go kill x and y for.... uh... hi :)
AWESOME PVP HIGH FUN LOW RISK NO SUGAR PEPSI MAX I AM THE HUNTER OF THE WOLFPACK
POS warfare in infrequent compared to FW. POS timers, etc are of the order of days. Waypost timers are on the order of minutes. The two are nothing alike which is why thousands of players are abandoning their PvP corps and alliances for FW.
Every single alliance in the top 10 now has seen a significant decline in membership.
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hope3434
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.24 02:52:00 -
[144]
Just one more option to pvp. Will bring in much needed blood to low sec
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Tobias Lee
Orb Union
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:03:00 -
[145]
dunno who wrote this but....(i.e. here have free/cheap tech 2 ships and caps if you fight for us...)?
Ive been playing five years never had any free t2 t1 stuff given to me whatsover and have been expected to fight out of my own pocket and pay corp tax etc whilst living in 0.0 so yeah FW no corp tax no alliances fees pvp on demand, why not?
Hell if those 0.0 alliances start chucking free vagabonds at me ill go fight for em but sure as hell that aint gonna happen. what will happen is loads of bob goon alts etc in fw if one of those alliances gets attacked in 0.0 expect to see a huge drop in current faction pilots online as they log mains in to defend space.
Faction warfare is just another thing to try in eve and as for shooting noobs well when your flying with noobs in ya own fleet it pretty much evens out.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.25 15:10:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Swamp Ziro Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/06/2008 14:57:59 CEO: Guys we need to kill x and y for x and y reasons.
RRARARA EGOTISTICAL CAPITALISTS LINING THEIR POCKETS WITH THE WORK OF THE MEMBERSHIP RARARAR
CCP: Guys you should go kill x and y for.... uh... hi :)
AWESOME PVP HIGH FUN LOW RISK NO SUGAR PEPSI MAX I AM THE HUNTER OF THE WOLFPACK
WOLFPAX Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Ariko Gunaris
Office of Ganking and Commerce
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Posted - 2008.06.25 17:56:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Ariko Gunaris on 25/06/2008 17:57:00
Originally by: Tobias Lee what will happen is loads of bob goon alts etc in fw if one of those alliances gets attacked in 0.0 expect to see a huge drop in current faction pilots online as they log mains in to defend space.
Many people are not only moving alts into FW, but mains too.
Why would they go back? Defending space usually means huge capital blobs with boring waiting periods and stupid amounts of unfun lag.
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:36:00 -
[148]
Originally by: The Hooch
FW is a throw back to the days before bubble camps, POS', Out-Posts, Caps, Titains, DD's and 700 ship lag fests. *snip * The Hooch hath spoken!
Quoting for being awesomely accurate. My first day in militia .... My first five minutes in militia I joined a fleet and went out BBQing. Over the next 16 or so hours, I was part of three different fleets, got 4 kills and a piece of 23 others including a carrier.
That was the most purely epic fun I've had in this game since I lived in 0.0 just prior to the HAY GUYZ LETS NANO EVERY HAC IN THE GAME AND GO VROOM VROOM ALL OVER THE MAP days. FW is easily a lot more fun, if you get into a decent fleet with a competant FC.
But no, it won't kill 0.0 alliances. There's very little ISK to be had doing this. In fact, it is a nasty ISK sink if you don't know what you're doing. The vultures swarm the wrecks before the larger fights are even properly over. Should have seen the carrier wreck the other night :P
-- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
Aerick Dawn
Vogon Deconstruction Fleet
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Posted - 2008.06.26 14:26:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Aerick Dawn on 26/06/2008 14:28:08 I recently hopped on the FW bandwagon, and so far its like the old days. Fleet battles with T1 stuff is really dang fun, and a drop in the bucket if you lose your ship.
Also, I joined a random fleet and do see some competent FC's directing some very new people to PVP and the meshing of both vets and new players into the same fleet really teaches the new guys the ropes and gives the bored vets some fun.
Its a good thing. I've had my ass sewed into the seat of a carrier/mom for the past year and this is quite a relief zipping around in an interceptor and knife fighting.
__________________ If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong. |
Sango Jaha
Twin ZERO OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.26 15:12:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Sango Jaha on 26/06/2008 15:13:14 I see many saying that FW is low risk pvp. What part of it? As far as i know if losing a ship in FW is the same as losing a ship in 0.0. Or maybe they are talking about losing territory and assets, most of the pilots now in 0.0 don't really care about towers, stations and other jump bridges. Because only the few power blocs director care. The risq is only for them, that risk is mainly only for them losing the income than pay for their 10th carriers and alt in FW. 0.0 is 4 pwerblocs afraid to lose assets, the rest no one cares, just want pvp refused by the same power blocs.
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