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Ambrosious Martin
Son of Man Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:36:00 -
[1]
Ok, so all I hear is how the pilgrim blows this, and the pilgrim blows that. Well I am in the last 15 days to amar cruiser 5 and am gonna find out for myself.. So here is my delima, Ive seen a bunch of posts on setups that are horrible(hauler pilgrim)and have made it a personal goal to find a usefull<---[thats right you see it the word USEFULL, when talking about a pilgrim, and not intended to be used as a cloaky hauler] setup. SO I have come up with a couple based on complaints I hear and read....
Now mind you I have near perfect fiting skills and Do use things like a full set of LG talismins(most important when flying this ship)and also have a +5%PG implant in my head... so I take that into consideration too. [Pilgrim] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Warp Scrambler II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Tracking Speed Disruption
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Ancillary Current Router I Anti-Thermic Pump I
Drones can be whatever is needed at that moment... I use 5Xhammers 5Xvespa-ec600 5x warrior II, 5x light armor repair drones-for repping my own drones. Point in the setup isnt in need of a MWD- becuase beleive it or not nothing is gonna get away from you with duel webs... and the TD's can be scripted for whatever aswell...the ship has a substantial amount of armor 13k and change, will kill the cap on any ship fairly quick.. and can use the ECM drones to Jam while trying to ransom...
[Pilgrim, Pirate vessel] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Co-Processor II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Speed Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Recon Probe Launcher, Fathom Scanner Probe I
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 Warrior II x5 Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
and this setup is for ofc soloing, by the fact that is has the launcher...
Ok so be honest, why do these setups Blow so bad? Flamers welcome... Trolls need to contribute 100K ISK to my wallet then reply to thread.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:42:00 -
[2]
Pilgrim is no bad ship, it's just very narrow. You're not gonna engage any and everything. Pick your targets and you can have plenty of fun with it. Personally I see no reason to go without a repper and even less without a full rack of medium cap modules in the highs. But really, you'll be living on the element of suprise and making the enemy uncomfortable so some variation doesn't hurt to badly. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 259019
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.06.13 00:47:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Now mind you I have... a full set of LG talismins(most important when flying this ship)and also have a +5%PG implant in my head... take that into consideration too.
Oh, I'm sure that a number of less than ethical pilots will do just that.
Taxman V: Back in Black
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Lithalnas
Headcrabs
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Posted - 2008.06.13 01:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Now mind you I have... a full set of LG talismins(most important when flying this ship)and also have a +5%PG implant in my head... take that into consideration too.
Oh, I'm sure that a number of less than ethical pilots will do just that.
not really, talismans are almost worthless really. (relatively speaking) -------------
fixed for greater eve content |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.13 02:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lithalnas not really, talismans are almost worthless really. (relatively speaking)
I think I remember seeing the HG Talisman Omega selling for 80M or something a few months back. I thought about picking up a Talisman set for my Basilisk/Guardian.. (though it really begins to shine with RR/Neut Domis!)
-Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Feng Schui
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.13 03:32:00 -
[6]
Talisman's are horrid for using with a pilgrim (they decrease the duration of energy neuts, which will increase the amount of cap that you burn through). |
Ambrosious Martin
Son of Man Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.13 03:37:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ambrosious Martin on 13/06/2008 03:37:00
Originally by: Feng Schui Talisman's are horrid for using with a pilgrim (they decrease the duration of energy neuts, which will increase the amount of cap that you burn through).
Are you R*TARDED???????????
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White Ronin
Screenout
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:53:00 -
[8]
Feng- the talisman set decreases cycle time, therefore increasing amount by increasing cycles over x period of time. They are really powerful when paired with the amarr pilgram or curse. REAL powerful. |
Corwain
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: NoNah Pilgrim is no bad ship, it's just very narrow. You're not gonna engage any and everything. Pick your targets and you can have plenty of fun with it. Personally I see no reason to go without a repper and even less without a full rack of medium cap modules in the highs. But really, you'll be living on the element of suprise and making the enemy uncomfortable so some variation doesn't hurt to badly.
Translation: Pick targets with no web, no scram, no MWD, no cap injector, no nos or neuts, no missiles and no drones. Have fun! -- Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
RuleoftheBone
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.06.13 06:46:00 -
[10]
OP...train Recon V to get rid of copro on probe variant. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Maraedel
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Posted - 2008.06.13 11:51:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Maraedel on 13/06/2008 11:51:20 My pilgrim is fitted this way
high 3x med neut II 1x covops cloak
mid 1x med capbooster II 1x MWD 1x 24km point 1x tech 2 web (or fleeting if you do not have the skills) 1x tracing disruptor tracking speed.
lows 3x EANM (i know but over kill with the suitcase bu still give me 5% more resist and couldn't think of anything els than a 3th of these) 1x DCU II 1x med rep II
rigs Aux nano pump aux nano accel
drones 15x hammie (they are gonna die that something you need to get used to so many of them save my ass but train for 5 valks to so i can get a rack of tech 2 warriors aswell)
if anyone has a good tip for that last low slot instead or=f the EANM than please tell me.
edit: have recon 5.
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Terazuk
Rogen's Heroes
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Posted - 2008.06.13 12:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Terazuk on 13/06/2008 12:20:02 [Recon 4 - Pilgrim]
Lo-Slots: 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I *(T2 needs 3% more CPU & Grid)
Mid_slots: 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Faint Warp Prohibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 2x Cap Recharger II
Hi-Slots: Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I 2x Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Rigs: 2x Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Like the Op I have struggled to find a *useful* setup what I have here is one that is entirely geared around cap warfare, mobility and sustainability.
This setup was created generally with 0.0 in mind deep in enemy territory where cap boosters are not within easy reach and docking to repair your armor is out of the question. Not to mention having to scoot past the odd bubble camp too. |
Yoko Lee
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Posted - 2008.06.13 12:22:00 -
[13]
I love my Pilgrim (but to be honest this ship need a boost) :
2x unstable med neutra, 1x diminishing med nos, 1x cov ops cloack II 1x 10mn mwd SS, 1x med cap inj, 1x sensor booster II, 1x web, 1x disruptor II 1x Amar Navy MAR, 2x AN eanm, 1x ts thermic (40%), 1x 800mm RT
1x rigs armor kinT resistance, 1x rigs nano pump (maybe trimak)
5x hornet ecm 5x warrior II 5x Vespa II 5x Valkyrie II
Never lose but i use it just for scout and kill some noob (cruiser bc).
P.S :recon lvl4
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Lyria Skydancer
Eve Defence Force Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.13 12:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: NoNah Pilgrim is no bad ship, it's just very narrow. You're not gonna engage any and everything. Pick your targets and you can have plenty of fun with it. Personally I see no reason to go without a repper and even less without a full rack of medium cap modules in the highs. But really, you'll be living on the element of suprise and making the enemy uncomfortable so some variation doesn't hurt to badly.
Translation: Pick targets with no web, no scram, no MWD, no cap injector, no nos or neuts, no missiles and no drones. Have fun!
Dude when is distortion 2 coming out? :-) |
LetsDoThis
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Posted - 2008.06.13 12:50:00 -
[15]
What the pilgrim is awesome at:
-stealth hauler. 1400m3 before implants
-exploration. has all of the traits needed for covert exploration. You can find sites with a cov-ops, and do everything else with the pilgrim.
-plus training for it trains the curse as well. |
Endless Subversion
Club Bear
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Posted - 2008.06.13 12:58:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 13/06/2008 13:01:30
Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Ok so be honest, why do these setups Blow so bad?
I fly the pilgrim a whole lot and would be happy to talk to you in game or here if you want to follow up more on the reasoning.
First Setup Issue 1 : Target Selection You start off by limiting your targets pretty significantly. Passive tanked ships, missile spammers, speed ships (nanos+inties), ships fitting nos, large drone boats and anything in a gang are all pretty much off limits with your setup. Additionally, against anything with a cap injector, you're going to have to run it out of cap charges to kill it, which leaves you really vulnerable to reinforcements.
Issue 2: Speed No propulsion mod plus 2x 1600 plates and an armor rig makes you really, really slow. Assuming low/high sec, where bubbles aren't an issue, this still causes 2 major issues.
The first is landing a target. I know you think cloak lets you sneak into web range, but in reality it's not so simple. Rarely does a ship sit still for any length of time unless it's mining, baiting or camping. Warping to a belt at nearly any range can get you uncloaked by stray asteroids etc, meaning that if you get uncloaked out of web range, your target mwds/abs off and leaves. Additionally, if your target is a stopped nano ship or really anything under a BC hull, they can get a lot of distance in the cloak delay + lock time window that the pilgrim has before it can engage, often enough to get to the edge or our of your web range. Basically the lack of propulsion mods further limits your target selection, which is already slim on your ship.
Secondly, it limits your options of escape. Any hostile adds leave you stranded 15km in point range with a max speed of about 200m/s, that's a long time that hostiles have to tackle you.
Issue 3: Fitting Still, despite all I've said there is a niche role for your current setup, granted this role will you get you killed a lot, but it's there. But currently there are better ways to fit for that role.
First off, what's the point of a 24km disruptor when your web range is 13km and you either land them in we range or they move away from you and leave? I'd drop the disruptor for a domi scram (~10 mil) that has basically the exact same ranges as your webs. You're all ready gambling on engaging inside web range (or the target leaves) so this frees up cpu, gives you 2 points of scramble and costs you less cap/sec.
Second, resists. In my opinion your resist profile is all wrong. Assuming you're fighting your targets, which are turret ships, the major source of dmg taken is going to be drones. The two most common drone types are thermal and explosive. Additionally all three turret types tend to carry ammo with a good amount of thermal dmg built into it. Also, every knows that amarr tech II has a thermal hole and to deal thermal to them if possible. I'd drop the dcu II (which considering the structure/shield amounts compared to armor amount isn't so hot) for a thermal hardener and drop the thermal pump rig for a trimark. Better resist layout, more overall effective hp.
Third, talismans + pg implant. Talisman implants are garbages for a pilgrim. Already the vast majority of your targets have cap injectors. This means the major issue is waiting for them to run out of charges while keeping your drain going, despite not knowing when they inject or what their total cap is. To accomplish this you need to be cap stable neuting them for long periods of time and preferably, neuts spaced to minimize the amount of time they have to utilize their injected cap. Talismans are bad because they reduce your cap stability. Also, the omega from the talismans shares the same slot as the 5% pg implant.
I'd drop the pg implant and the talismans. Swap the highs to Cov Ops Cloak, 1x Med Neut II, 1x small diminishing nos, 1x small unstable neut. Still fits with recon 4, frees up a bunch of implants slots *CONTINUED* |
Endless Subversion
Club Bear
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Posted - 2008.06.13 12:58:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 13/06/2008 13:03:37 Edited by: Endless Subversion on 13/06/2008 13:02:45
That'd let you put in LG slaves, including omega and some cap/armor amount hardwirings. Alternatively, you could leave the +5% pg implant, and swap the PG rig for another trimark, since you now have the fitting.
Second Setup |
Maraedel
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Posted - 2008.06.13 13:20:00 -
[18]
I know that a lot of people time there capbooster after your neut cickle. so would it be clever to activate m 3 med neut every 4 sec? this way my targets looses 360cap every 4 sec at the cost of 120cap for me. |
Feng Schui
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.13 13:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: White Ronin Feng- the talisman set decreases cycle time, therefore increasing amount by increasing cycles over x period of time. They are really powerful when paired with the amarr pilgram or curse. REAL powerful.
And when you cap out since your cap booster can't keep up, your tank goes *poof* and your ship goes *boom*.
Use slaves instead. |
Ambrosious Martin
Son of Man Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Endless Subversion Edited by: Endless Subversion on 13/06/2008 13:35:35
Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Ok so be honest, why do these setups Blow so bad?
First off, what's the point of a 24km disruptor when your web range is 13km and you either land them in web range or they move away from you and leave?
Ok Im an idiot but not nearly as bad as you... hiw long have you ben playing EVE??? Disruptor??? where do you see a disruptor on either setup... I see a T2 scram on one setup and a T1 named scram on the other...
Next the PG implant and the talismins yes clash by way of the 6th slot... the implant is required on the first setup cuz it has 2x 1600plate... and admitidelly the setup with 2xplate would be for gang work. The talismins however way help(any noob who says there a bad idea, appareantelly hasnt used them) they even help when im flying my arby... which is setup just like a minni pilgrim. they increase the amount from my NOS and help fuel both my NUET and on the one setup the MWD... now as far as the SB goes on the second setup, fine pull it and throw in a cap recharger... that should help level off the issue.
Now as much as ide like to go buy a set of slaves it would really clash with my vagabond...I happen to like speed(arent willing to put out for a set of snakes.)
My resists are all wrong? thermal hole sure, all minni pilots carry usually 3 ammos...Barrage{explo} Hail{oh yeah still explo} and maybe republic EMP{EMP, Kin, explo} Gallante pilots are always gona be shooting Kinetic and thermal... amarr pilots EM and thermal... now the thermal resists on either setup are around 70% and all the rest are better... so im missing where there terible... and with your suggestions I would havea major issue with and minni ship and explosive damage... and most of us know that most ships being flown latelly are minni and gallante.
Ok so now why is it all so bad... and as far as the whole transversal thing as the first setup goes theres 2 webs... no one is gonna dictate transversal there not gonna be moving more than about 50m/s and even slow boating I do 210. the second setup has a SB currentelly to counter the problem of them getting outside my range quicker than my lock... but since its really for busting missioners im not too afraid of them being equipped to handle me... and not to many run cap injectors or nuets or lots of webs... most are running long range weapons and drones.. so I combat some drones first.. woopdy do... while hes being nueted and all that the mission is now starting to take its toll on his sustainable tank... aand oh yeah backup is now getting into there ship a couple jumpos away and undocking. ok now there trying to figure out how to get into mission to come help... ok the target is now worrying about joiining a gang not attacking me... next question. |
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Endless Subversion
Club Bear
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:12:00 -
[21]
Are you trolling or are you really this worthless?
Your 'gang' setup is bad. It's bad primarily because it's a pilgrim setup and secondly because you're doing it wrong. I took a decent amount of time to reply civilly to you already, I'll summarize. Everything you're contributing to the gang there can be matched or surpassed by other ships. Cap warfare doesn't scale well in gang situations. Then there is your fitting. Tech II scram is fail, because you need to be able to warp disrupt up to your max web range which is 13km. You DO have a thermal hole. It's your weakest resist. Many minmatar pilots fly with barrage, faction emp and faction phased plasma. Most drones are thermal or explosive.
Your 'solo' setup is stupidly bad. Especially if it's for mission ganking like you claim. You have a MWD fit, which doesn't work in dead space and a 7km scram. I'd say 30% of all missions uncloak you on warp in. In a mission gank you want an AB and the MAX range disruptor you can fit since you often have to hope they're in range when you land, since you often get uncloaked. Some mission runners still fit nos, you're dead if they do. Also, claiming solo mission ganks and then talking about your backup arriving is pretty dumb.
So slaves conflict with your vaga but talismans don't? Neither of them help the vaga much, but slaves help more than talismans. If the choice is between talismans or slaves for your vaga+pilgrim, you should choose slaves as they help both ships more.
Finally, you came and asked for a critique of your pilgrim setup. I, as a long time pilgrim pilot, provided you with criticisms based on my experience in the ship in solo and gang pvp. You don't like my summary because it isn't what you want to hear. Tough, your setups don't work versus competent opponents. End of story.
Listen to your betters and save yourself some grief or go ahead and fail creatively, I really don't care which. |
Ruciza
The Feminists
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:41:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ruciza on 13/06/2008 21:41:24
Originally by: Ambrosious Martin
Ok so be honest, why do these setups Blow so bad?
Because they use nos. That's the major flaw. But rest is ok. For your purposes.
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