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Arana Tellen
The Blackguard Wolves Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Edriahn
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Tracking of a mega, more damage than a mega with 2 mag stabs, 54km optimal with antimatter (CB V).
Mate, thank, you, I never laughed so much in my life. Every line in your post is completely wrong. Good wrok.
How so?
1. Shadow serp tracking computer = 35% boost to tracking with tracking script, Gallente BS V = 37.5% tracking boost, near enough TBFH.
2. 7 guns + 25% damage bonus vs 8 guns + extra mag stab, plug the numbers into EFT and you will see the difference.
3. Its a 54km optimal.
4. It works because I have used it.
5. What implants would YOU choose then?
Now true the mega can use sentries or heavies but in the time they take to get to the targets (remember 54km optimal) the targets are usually dead. Valkaries are good at picking off the smaller targets. The setup I posted is capable of sniping multiple frigates in one volly. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Arana Tellen
The Blackguard Wolves Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:55:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kusha'an Edited by: Kusha''an on 12/06/2008 12:40:23
Originally by: Arana Tellen 8x 425mm railgun II (Federation faction antimatter)
1x XL SB II 2x Mission specific hardners 2x Cap recharger II 1x Shadow serpentis tracking computer (tracking) (35-40 million isk)
3x Magnetic field stab II (or faction) 2x Power diagnostic system II
5x Valkarie II
3x CCC I
3-5% Hardwirings for all turret damage, large hybrid damage, cap recharge, cap amount, tracking
Low grade crystal set if you have the isk but not really needed.
Tracking of a mega, more damage than a mega with 2 mag stabs, 54km optimal with antimatter (CB V).
WTB: Megathron with 8 turret hardpoints
I'm still waiting for Chesty McJubblies to give an opinion.
Its a rokh.........
As for cruisers they die in two vollys (at least kin weak ones do) IF they manage to get within range, they really dont often, you just match heading and it can hit them.
True the setup needs good skills, but it works very well. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Cyras DeValera
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:57:00 -
[33]
1) Sentries don't have to "get to" targets. They don't move.
2) My Navy Mega has both the 37.5% bonus and a tracking computer, makes my 425's shoot straight.
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Spider Silva
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:24:00 -
[34]
the nightmare is hands down the best mission ship, it melts cruisers in 1 volley and bses in just a few volleys, instant damage and can hit at 40km with multifrequency crystals and maxed skills. It may not be the best against angels but against serpentis, drones, sanshas bloods it is an absolute pwnmobile
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Arana Tellen
The Blackguard Wolves Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:31:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cyras DeValera 1) Sentries don't have to "get to" targets. They don't move.
2) My Navy Mega has both the 37.5% bonus and a tracking computer, makes my 425's shoot straight.
I personally hate collecting sentries :S But as for tracking, at 54km I dont need as much tracking and somehow I doubt you have that range with antimatter and a tank. |
Darth Vaders
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:36:00 -
[36]
Best mission BS is:
Amarr BS for Sanshas/Blood Gallente BS for Serpentis/Guristas Caldari BS for Guristas/Serpentis/Angels/Sanshas (but it may have tanking problems against Sanshas) Minmatar BS for Angels
All in all the most damage versatile is the Raven can choose what missile types to use according to the mission type but it may have problem in defence against Sanshas and against too many cruiser spawns. The second most damage versatile is Dominix can chose drone type according to the mission and it has aslo a very good tank (but drones travel slowly) But nothing compairs to the speed of an Apocalypse doing Amarr missions or a Maelstorm Angel ones. Have i confused you?
_______________________________________________ As a side wish please remove the agent missions from Jita. |
Edriahn
Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
1. Shadow serp tracking computer = 35% boost to tracking with tracking script, Gallente BS V = 37.5% tracking boost, near enough TBFH.
2. 7 guns + 25% damage bonus vs 8 guns + extra mag stab, plug the numbers into EFT and you will see the difference.
3. Its a 54km optimal.
4. It works because I have used it.
5. What implants would YOU choose then?
Now true the mega can use sentries or heavies but in the time they take to get to the targets (remember 54km optimal) the targets are usually dead. Valkaries are good at picking off the smaller targets. The setup I posted is capable of sniping multiple frigates in one volly.
You are killin' meh, hahaha. Let me tellya secret: Megathron CAN use tracking computers too. Megathron CAN get 3rd mag stab too. I don't care of the optimal - bigger optimal in optimal means bigger faloff for closer targets. It doesn't work, because: 1.Tank is pathetic. As good as a raven at best. And raven is not a good tank. 2.U cannot control range, ship is as slow as hell. 3.Cap dry in 2 mins, 16 sec. Ofc I'll choose my implants - 5% tracking, 5% large hybrid dmg, lg snake E, 5% speed, -5% repair cap consumation.
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Juleko
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Spider Silva the nightmare is hands down the best mission ship, it melts cruisers in 1 volley and bses in just a few volleys, instant damage and can hit at 40km with multifrequency crystals and maxed skills. It may not be the best against angels but against serpentis, drones, sanshas bloods it is an absolute pwnmobile
This.
05:50:50 Combat Your Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser perfectly strikes Core Rear Admiral, wrecking for 3888.1 damage.
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Spider Silva
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:48:00 -
[39]
WOW THATS NICE. what heat sinks are you using and whats your damage modifier? also is the amarr navy tachyon better than a tech 2 tachyon for damage?
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Juleko
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:50:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Spider Silva WOW THATS NICE. what heat sinks are you using and whats your damage modifier? also is the amarr navy tachyon better than a tech 2 tachyon for damage?
Faction heat sinks (Amarr Navy also). And yes, faction tachys are better than T2 unless you have Large Beam Spec up to 4 at least. Even then I'd still go with faction Tachys because of the lower cap use.
To be honest that 3888.1 hit was a hull hit I think so shouldn't really be taken as "regular DPS". That said, excellent hits are in the 1500+ region.
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Arana Tellen
The Blackguard Wolves Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Edriahn
Originally by: Arana Tellen
1. Shadow serp tracking computer = 35% boost to tracking with tracking script, Gallente BS V = 37.5% tracking boost, near enough TBFH.
2. 7 guns + 25% damage bonus vs 8 guns + extra mag stab, plug the numbers into EFT and you will see the difference.
3. Its a 54km optimal.
4. It works because I have used it.
5. What implants would YOU choose then?
Now true the mega can use sentries or heavies but in the time they take to get to the targets (remember 54km optimal) the targets are usually dead. Valkaries are good at picking off the smaller targets. The setup I posted is capable of sniping multiple frigates in one volly.
You are killin' meh, hahaha. Let me tellya secret: Megathron CAN use tracking computers too. Megathron CAN get 3rd mag stab too. I don't care of the optimal - bigger optimal in optimal means bigger faloff for closer targets. It doesn't work, because: 1.Tank is pathetic. As good as a raven at best. And raven is not a good tank. 2.U cannot control range, ship is as slow as hell. 3.Cap dry in 2 mins, 16 sec. Ofc I'll choose my implants - 5% tracking, 5% large hybrid dmg, lg snake E, 5% speed, -5% repair cap consumation.
Here is a tip, there is not penalty for ships being closer than optimal if you can track, ie the falloff band does not apply towards your ship too. A common misconception. Also 50% further away counts more than that tracking bonus does.
The tank is around 300DPS I have never strugled except on the Angels mission where you need a tag to get into the last "hidden" room.
I don't need to control range much tbh since everything dies fast enough.
I run the XL SB when needed, I can tank 300DPS and perma run.
Snakes not needed, better off with crystals if you are worried about tank lol.
If you have 3 mag stabs on the mega the tank is even worse. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Spider Silva
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Juleko
Originally by: Spider Silva WOW THATS NICE. what heat sinks are you using and whats your damage modifier? also is the amarr navy tachyon better than a tech 2 tachyon for damage?
Faction heat sinks (Amarr Navy also). And yes, faction tachys are better than T2 unless you have Large Beam Spec up to 4 at least. Even then I'd still go with faction Tachys because of the lower cap use.
To be honest that 3888.1 hit was a hull hit I think so shouldn't really be taken as "regular DPS". That said, excellent hits are in the 1500+ region.
i am training large beam spec 5 at min and have no cap problems with tech 2 tachs so i think ill stick with those then mate
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mofokitkat
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.12 14:10:00 -
[43]
i find my arty maelstrom walks thru missions . iv also used a raven so i can compare the two and there aint no comparison. the raven can be piloted without engaging the brain but takes longer the maelstrom requires a tiny amount of piloting ability to manage ranges effectivly but it also performs the job much quicker. id pick the mael every day. the only down sides would be the price of the ship and the fitting, also the skill requirements. my gf now flys the raven and can do lvl 4's comfortably with only 5 mill sp. where as the maelstrom would be no where near as effective if not fully t2 fitted hence many more skill points required.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:09:00 -
[44]
Best all around for just doing missions: Big Missile boat (whatever your flavor). The same exact ship can be set up to tank the specific rat types and dish out the specific damage those targets are weakest against. Also, other than the annoying defenders, loosing a missile won't cripple you. Likewise, you can use drone boats, if you don't mind replacing drones a lot... or are very good at shepherding kittens. |
AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:24:00 -
[45]
It's gotta be the paladin/nightmare for amarr + drone missions, sentry domi/rokh/mega for serp/guristas/EOM, and ??? (CNR?) for angels.
I don't know if a CNR or a sentry domi would do angels quicker. Probably a sentry domi still.
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AnKahn
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:33:00 -
[46]
Doing missions is not a sprint but a marathon. It's not how many missions can you do in a night, but how many can you stand doing in a week.
For me it's hands down the Domi with or without the sentries.
And if you use mediums for anything below BS rats, the Mrym is not that much slower. (Rats pop fast to bonused mediums). For some reason the hobgloblin always seems to get in trouble when you use the 2/2/1 combo with the Myrm.
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AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2008.06.12 16:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: AnKahn Doing missions is not a sprint but a marathon. It's not how many missions can you do in a night, but how many can you stand doing in a week.
Irrelevant to the subject at hand. How many hours that you can spend doing boring pve stuff doesn't necessarily correlate with ship type.
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Edriahn
Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:34:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Arana Tellen ...
Haha, you belive yourself, dontcha??:) So u do same dps on 2km as on optimal? Run a few more missions and then come back. I'll be happy to see how your rock will tank BR missions or Massive assault. Cuz my dual rep faction domi barely tanks 'em and it tanks twice as more as the rock. I know, cuz I tested it. It is impossible to run missions in it and that's the end, sorry. |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Edriahn
Originally by: Arana Tellen ...
Haha, you belive yourself, dontcha??:) So u do same dps on 2km as on optimal? Run a few more missions and then come back. I'll be happy to see how your rock will tank BR missions or Massive assault. Cuz my dual rep faction domi barely tanks 'em and it tanks twice as more as the rock. I know, cuz I tested it. It is impossible to run missions in it and that's the end, sorry.
Hey look, I found out why you have so much trouble tanking it... fit some gank ffs!.
Simply put, there's no way that a Rokh is going to out mission a Domi or Mega - the range bonus doesn't really make up for the missing damage (IMO). The Rokh won't outdamage a Mega/Domi until 60-70km.
That said, there's no way in hell that you can get a Domi to tank more than a reasonably tanked Rokh, full stop.
-Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Edriahn
Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
That said, there's no way in hell that you can get a Domi to tank more than a reasonably tanked Rokh, full stop.
-Liang
Start reading more than one post -or- start flying domi and rokh on missions.
Btw - best ship for lvl4 is Moros, 1000DPS only from drones, beautiful.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:23:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Edriahn Start reading more than one post -or- start flying domi and rokh on missions.
Btw - best ship for lvl4 is Moros, 1000DPS only from drones, beautiful.
I actually fly the Domi actively, and can fly the Rokh about as well. I saw the original post about his Rokh, and I thought then (and now) that it's a piece of poo - but to claim that a domi of any sort can outtank a Rokh is utter bullcrap.
BTW, I wasn't aware that you could get a Moros through the gates to a mission.
-Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Arana Tellen
The Blackguard Wolves Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:29:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Arana Tellen on 12/06/2008 20:34:35
Originally by: Edriahn
Originally by: Arana Tellen ...
Haha, you belive yourself, dontcha??:) So u do same dps on 2km as on optimal? Run a few more missions and then come back. I'll be happy to see how your rock will tank BR missions or Massive assault. Cuz my dual rep faction domi barely tanks 'em and it tanks twice as more as the rock. I know, cuz I tested it. It is impossible to run missions in it and that's the end, sorry.
Yes I have run that, the only mission I avoid is worlds collide because I can't be bothered to run it. I can do EVERY other level IV. At 54km I take less damage, I have better tracking and NOTHING except frigates MAKE it to 4km and my drones kill them. cruisers orbit at around 10-20km, and I can match velocity and destroy them in 3 vollys rather than 2 (on the rare occasion they get there and thats because they either started there or its an EWAR mission), just because you tried it, have no idea how to fly the ship does not make it useless.
558 DPS at 54km, 654 DPS with drones. Works for me, TBH use your slowboat if you like. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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RedeyeAce
Demogorgon's Army
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:30:00 -
[53]
Isnt this a case of where we all were at one point.. i.e. I really must have a big tank..
It seems weird to go more gank.. bit like active shield to passive shield, feels weird at first.. then going armor tanking feels weird.
Honestly going for a gank setup works so well, as you dont have to manage that much DPS hitting you as youve nailed it down quicker..
mho
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Edriahn
Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.06.12 22:53:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I actually fly the Domi actively, and can fly the Rokh about as well. I saw the original post about his Rokh, and I thought then (and now) that it's a piece of poo - but to claim that a domi of any sort can outtank a Rokh is utter bullcrap. -Liang
As I said - fly domi and rokh for some time and come back. Dominix easily outankes rokh for mission running.
@Arana Tellen - what ya sayin is just not true. I have no interest in your posts. Your fit si wrong, sorry and it cannot tank. When u run missions for time and profit u don't use faction ammo. DPS is 480 with AM L. Dominix tanks twice more and still has more DPS. So u can bring your "slowboat" back to station. |
Arana Tellen
The Blackguard Wolves Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Edriahn
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I actually fly the Domi actively, and can fly the Rokh about as well. I saw the original post about his Rokh, and I thought then (and now) that it's a piece of poo - but to claim that a domi of any sort can outtank a Rokh is utter bullcrap. -Liang
As I said - fly domi and rokh for some time and come back. Dominix easily outankes rokh for mission running.
@Arana Tellen - what ya sayin is just not true. I have no interest in your posts. Your fit si wrong, sorry and it cannot tank. When u run missions for time and profit u don't use faction ammo. DPS is 480 with AM L. Dominix tanks twice more and still has more DPS. So u can bring your "slowboat" back to station.
DPS calculated using 3% turret damage, 3% large hybrid implants and one shadow serp damage mod (the other two are tech II using faction ammo (plus my skills).
I have yet to warp out of any normal mission circumstance. I guess I know how to agro the groups in the right order. Faction ammo makes me around 10% faster in a mission and since I pay less than 10% of my mission earnings per mission on ammo it makes a profit. |
deepb
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Posted - 2008.06.13 00:17:00 -
[56]
I use a Dominix w/ 6x 425mm railguns and T2 sentries -- it's faster than any other ship I've ever run missions with. The Kronos (marauder) is a close second with T2 rails, but it's less versatile because the damage from your drones (i.e., the only damage type you can choose) is so low.
You really need Gallente BS V, as well as Drone Interfacing V, to really take advantage of the Dominix. I would make those a priority if you haven't already figured that out.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.13 01:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Edriahn
As I said - fly domi and rokh for some time and come back. Dominix easily outankes rokh for mission running.
@Arana Tellen - what ya sayin is just not true. I have no interest in your posts. Your fit si wrong, sorry and it cannot tank. When u run missions for time and profit u don't use faction ammo. DPS is 480 with AM L. Dominix tanks twice more and still has more DPS. So u can bring your "slowboat" back to station.
You're right about the Domi/Mega being better mission running ships than the Rokh. You're wrong about why. Any excessive tank is pure Gravy - it comes down to how much gank you can cram onto the ship. The Rokh will really start to outdamage the Mega/Domi after 65-70km - but most missions are not done at that distance! Of course, i'm assuming that you're throwing max gank setups on instead of dual rep tanking or similar.
But back to the subject at hand - the Rokh comes with lots of advantages in tanking (that do not have an effective mapping in the armor tanking world) - Faction/Complex shield boosters are more cap efficient than armor reppers - Faction/Complex shield boost amps - Crystals - Ganktanking by virtue of "free" damage mods - Rokh gets a 25% resist bonus - XL Boosters are "oversized" (and thus, more slot efficient than LARs)
Really, shield tankers have a huge advantage in PVE because you don't need the utility mods - and you leave your lows free for damage mods.
-Liang |
Hastur DragonTooth
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2008.06.13 07:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- Faction/Complex shield boosters are more cap efficient than armor reppers - Faction/Complex shield boost amps ...
Hello sensor boosted battleships outside your station.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Really, shield tankers have a huge advantage in PVE because you don't need the utility mods - and you leave your lows free for damage mods.
-Liang
This is exactly what makes the Nightmare the ultimate PvE boat for Amarr missions. Essentially a full rack of Tachyon II's and all those lowslots chock full of damage/tracking mods. The fact that it's a head on a stick with lasers is just gravy.
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Arana Tellen
The Blackguard Wolves Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.13 08:08:00 -
[59]
Paladin is the ultimate Amarr mission runner due to its ability to salvage as it goes along. |
Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:29:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Gimpb on 13/06/2008 15:30:10
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Really, shield tankers have a huge advantage in PVE because you don't need the utility mods - and you leave your lows free for damage mods.
-Liang
A shield tanked domi is quite viable for missions, assuming you're willing to lay down the bling for a complex booster or whatever. (reaches higher dps than armor tank setups)
edit: screwed up quote |
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