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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:37:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Heartstone Nope. I don't this all the choises he has made are perfect but considering what he has been up against (and I'm not talking about the goons or anything like that rather the lack of support from CCP) I think he has done a resonable job of it.
Biased? yes of course.
Overly so? No not really. I'll happy tell him he sucks if he does ;)
Wait, you think its O.K. when the CSM chair applies bais and moderating the discussion because CCP hasn't provided the best tools they could have?
How in the world can you make the logical connection between those.
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:40:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto My objections are to your actions as Chair, not to your actions as a member. I haven't said anything at all against your being on the Council, or you bringing forward your platform commitments to the Council. I just find your actions as Chair appalling. I want you out of the Chair and still on the Council - I don't think I've said anything that would go against that at any point. I know I stood against the no confidence topic when it was new, but that's because it looked like an attempt to kick you out for reasons of personal dislike. Abuse of power is a whole different ball game.
Well you and I disagree on the issue of the muting obviously. I say fickle because it was one decision out of a fractious 4 hour meeting which otherwise place a lot of good issues onto the agenda for the forthcoming meetings with ccp. Now perhaps you are right, perhaps I'm wrong. But end of the day you get the whole package when you vote for someone - I'm passionate and mission-orientated when I get involved in something like this. I intended from day one to make a go of this process hence the major effort I've put into issue research/agenda building/feedback and driving the skeletal structure of the CSM towards something like a working model. Yes yesterday was messy as all hell and lots of disagreements came from my decision to mute Inanna. But you know what? I'm proud of the fact we slaved away on a hot evening for 4 hours to get 15 player issues onto the agenda for Iceland despite everything. I'd rather have imperfect accomplishments than perfect nothing. Over these past three weeks we've built up this process from virtually nothing and are going to achieve everything expected of us in the CSM docs.
As others have pointed out we aren't making money out of this - everyone is taking time from work, we're paying for our own beer and going to Iceland for a lot of meetings and chit-chat and PR stuff for the general good of this game.
So if you want to sit back and say "hey jade as a chairman you're rubbish" over a 30sec mute intention to get a vote done at the end of a 4 hour meeting and say my judgment is critically flawed as a result then hey, be my guest.
But taken in the context of the huge amount of effort I (and other CSM reps) have put into making this process actually work rather than simply throwing our hands up in the air and blaming it all on ccp and non-delivery of resources and promises then you are going to need to take a little criticism in return.
Yes, fickle is not unreasonable.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Anton Marvik
AnTi. Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:41:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Anton Marvik on 09/06/2008 23:43:44
Originally by: Jade Constantine Now perhaps you are right, perhaps I'm wrong.
That about sums it up.
It's a bit late for appeasement, don't you think Jade? You put too much effort into denial to stop now. Distraction won't work any better.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:50:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Goumindong
Wait, you think its O.K. when the CSM chair applies bais and moderating the discussion because CCP hasn't provided the best tools they could have?
How in the world can you make the logical connection between those.
I think it is fine for the CSM chairman to moderate a discussion as that would be part of the job of the CSM chairman as described in the CSM document. In regards to bias no I don't think the CSM chairman should be biased in stating what others have said and I have said as much however the CSM Chairman is also a member of the CSM elected to give his/her viewpoint and as such will obviously have a personal bias in one direction on every topic no matter who they are. In general I feel Jade has kept his neutrality in most situations, with a few excpetions, and as such has done a perfectly resonable job. Perfect? No of course not but all things considered perfectly resonable.
As for CCP not providing the best tools they could of I think you may wish to think about that a bit harder as CCP have provided next to no tools. In fact it would be more accurate to say they have provided a stick, a drawning pin and a drinking straw and told the members to build a car. The lack of fundamental procedural guidence from CCP has led to all of this as is perfectly apparent when you consider what the difference would have been had they provided instructions to the CSM in regards to the Chairman's powers to maintain order, how to use them and how they should not be used (one example out of a many).
However I assume you feel differently from your many many many many posts on the issue. *shrug* Flame away my dear chap.
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Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:03:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jade Constantine 1. Get your CSM reps to pass the CSM electable chair issue to the constitution in Iceland.
Why does Jade keep dismissively referring to "your CSM reps"? It was pointed out by Darius earlier: Jade, in case you weren't aware, you are our CSM rep. You didn't vote for yourself 2,436 times, and it's entirely possible that one of those people who voted for you disagrees with your recent actions. Take responsibility for your actions, and stop opposing both your constituent base and your fellow CSM members. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:05:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Anton Marvik It's a bit late for appeasement, don't you think Jade? You put too much effort into denial to stop now. Distraction won't work any better.
Lol one thing you are going to have to realize about me is I treat people differently depending on my past experience with them. You've acted like a complete plonker from your first posts so I honestly don't care what you think Anton, sorry but I got elected for my disarming honesty as much as anything
Herschel Yamamoto on the other hand even though I disagree with him over the issue of muting inanna, I do care what he thinks because he's taken time to read and present issues here, take an interest in the CSM process and generally be a responsible respondent to issues threads.
So don't try and sun yourself in my conciliatory post to another person. Its really not meant for you!
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Dohl Khrensen
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:15:00 -
[67]
No support. Let them work it out.
I think its very important that the CSM learns to leave their baggage at the council room door and works together, almost as important as the end product they're working towards. Future Councils need a precedent set that you don't just move to impeach whenever someone does something stupid/unpopular.
Start the culture of cooperation now. Those who don't buy-in just look silly and short sighted. Next election day, make cooperation a voting issue.
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Anton Marvik
AnTi. Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:15:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Blahblahblah
You've obviously realized that flat denial and self-delusion isn't working, so you're attempting distraction and appeasement, is the point.
Ironically, when you insulted all those who criticized you (ZOMG we want to see CSM fail and its all a big goon conspiracy), you insulted the people whose ***es you are now attempting to kiss.
Good luck, Jade, if they're stupid enough to be 'disarmed' by your facade more power to them.
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Agent Marvin
A Cell Delta.Green
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:20:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Anton Marvik Its really not meant for you!
Wow, what an ass.
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Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:30:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Herschel Yamamoto on the other hand even though I disagree with him over the issue of muting inanna, I do care what he thinks because he's taken time to read and present issues here, take an interest in the CSM process and generally be a responsible respondent to issues threads.
You're hardly acting as if you care what anyone else thinks, as you've repeatedly said that you'll act the same way in the future.
And Darius does a hell of a better job of rolling with the punches when he gets trolled. I hope you understand it's rather unprofessional to troll back. You're taking this way too seriously. |
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Qaedienne
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:57:00 -
[71]
Vote against. Jade acted appropriately in muting Innana, who was clearly in the wrong and disruptive to the meeting. Furthermore, Innana has acted even less professionally since the meeting, and is now making wild accusations on these boards instead of working with the council to get past the issue.
If anyone should be removed, it's Innana.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:00:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Qaedienne
If anyone should be removed, it's Innana.
No I don't think Innana should be removed at all (I am of the opinion that people should only be removed for gross misconduct, such as breach of the NDA, or at the end of thier term nothing else) I do however agree that she should take it up with the members of the CSM to try and come to some sort of way of getting past the issue beween themsleves rather than bringing it into the public domain.
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Anton Marvik
AnTi. Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:04:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Qaedienne If anyone should be removed, it's Innana.
Nobody wants anybody removed from the CSM. Some people just feel that the position of Chair would be better filled by someone other than Jade.
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Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:20:00 -
[74]
Where's my support thumb.
Wait there it is.
Seriously, Jade, you're easily the biggest idiot I've ever seen elected to office, and I live in America.
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
shuckstar
Hauling hogs CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:40:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ethaet Edited by: Ethaet on 09/06/2008 18:28:47 After reading the chatlog, I support this. 'Warning' and then muting people for no reason is not right unless there is a valid reason.
I maybe just be paranoid, but anyone notice this was between two of the RPers on the CSM? Keep your RP sentiments out of the CSM.
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Kinkie Yuuki
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:50:00 -
[76]
Jade is going great. Inanna was disruptive and deserved the 30 second? mute, lol.
Wahh waahh the CSM Chairman isn't nice to me when I criticize him, seriously shutup.
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Anton Marvik
AnTi. Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Kinkie Yuuki Jade is going great. Inanna was disruptive and deserved the 30 second? mute, lol.
You are ignorant of the facts, my dear forum alt. Ianna was kicked from the chatroom and then unable to join until after a vote had concluded.
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Maitsu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:53:00 -
[78]
Doesn't Jade write terrible fanfic about unrestrained gallente sexuality? Someone find that link... That's clearly not the direction I want this game going.
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Phorashi
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:53:00 -
[79]
Yeah, I've read the chatlogs and I do agree that Jade seems to be not only abusing it's power as chair, but seems to be paranoid.
I vote that Jade is removed from chair position at the very least. At the most it should be removed from the council altogether if it's obvious mental instability becomes an issue.
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:57:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 10/06/2008 01:58:15
Originally by: Anton Marvik
Originally by: Kinkie Yuuki Jade is going great. Inanna was disruptive and deserved the 30 second? mute, lol.
You are ignorant of the facts, my dear forum alt. Ianna was kicked from the chatroom and then unable to join until after a vote had concluded.
Well actually the sanction against Inanna was a 30 sec mute. But sadly the chat channel functionality is messed up and the un-mute setting = kick from channel. She then needed to be manually re-invited and un-muted again. But the point is the punishment was a 30 sec mute while the final vote of the evening was being stated. Its entirely false for you to state that she wasn't able to join against till after the vote - she was given an opportunity to cast her vote when she'd rejoined.
If anyone is ignorant of the facts (albeit intentionally so) its you Anton.
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Kinkie Yuuki
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:58:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Anton Marvik
Originally by: Kinkie Yuuki Jade is going great. Inanna was disruptive and deserved the 30 second? mute, lol.
You are ignorant of the facts, my dear forum alt. Ianna was kicked from the chatroom and then unable to join until after a vote had concluded.
Good even better. If hes diruptive again he should be banned for a month. |
Anton Marvik
AnTi. Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.06.10 02:03:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Anton Marvik on 10/06/2008 02:06:13 Edited by: Anton Marvik on 10/06/2008 02:04:29
Originally by: Jade Constantine Its entirely false for you to state that she wasn't able to join against till after the vote - she was given an opportunity to cast her vote when she'd rejoined.
[ 2008.06.08 21:40:29 ]EVE System >Inanna Zuni was muted by Jade Constantine., Effective until 2008.06.08 21:10:28. [ 2008.06.08 21:40:48 ]Hardin >simple majority - aye? [ 2008.06.08 21:40:56 ]Bane Glorious >well the rules say (ref Tusko's findings) that seven votes is necessary, so that's means choice A [ 2008.06.08 21:41:03 ]Jade Constantine >simple majority a) [ 2008.06.08 21:41:08 ]Dierdra Vaal >A then [ 2008.06.08 21:41:10 ]Ankhesentapemkah >A [ 2008.06.08 21:41:12 ]LaVista Vista >Abstain [ 2008.06.08 21:41:14 ]Bane Glorious >in that case there's not really anything to vote on, it's just what's there [ 2008.06.08 21:41:33 ]Jade Constantine >okay [ 2008.06.08 21:42:08 ]Jade Constantine >this means that with that we approve that process and as a result the issue about the CSM chair would now pass rather than fail [ 2008.06.08 21:42:14 ]Serenity Steele >B [ 2008.06.08 21:43:03 ]Serenity Steele >^ If I understood correctly I just voted for 5+ yeses to pass? [ 2008.06.08 21:43:11 ]Jade Constantine >yep [ 2008.06.08 21:43:18 ]Jade Constantine >but its gone the other way [ 2008.06.08 21:43:38 ]Jade Constantine >and simple majority pass voting has been confirmed by this committee [ 2008.06.08 21:43:46 ]Jade Constantine >everyone clear with that? [ 2008.06.08 21:43:58 ]Ankhesentapemkah >Thank god. [ 2008.06.08 21:44:06 ]EVE System >Inanna Zuni was muted by Jade Constantine., Effective until 2008.06.08 21:14:05. [ 2008.06.08 21:44:27 ]Jade Constantine >kk [ 2008.06.08 21:44:32 ]Jade Constantine >as a result ANK [ 2008.06.08 21:44:51 ]Jade Constantine >the CSM vote-able chairman vote is actually a success and would pass onto the agenda [ 2008.06.08 21:44:55 ]Jade Constantine >so I've got to ask [ 2008.06.08 21:45:00 ]Jade Constantine >does anyone wish to revote on that [ 2008.06.08 21:45:18 ]Bane Glorious >meh, forget it [ 2008.06.08 21:45:26 ]Bane Glorious >we're way overtime [ 2008.06.08 21:45:32 ]Hardin >Hang on where is inanna
She was able to vote...after she resolved the problem and returned, minutes after the vote had been called by you, Jade. |
Kinkie Yuuki
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Posted - 2008.06.10 02:10:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Anton Marvik 5+ yeses to pass
Innana's vote would have been useless either way. I hope he's learned not to disrupt the process next time. |
Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:02:00 -
[84]
Guys we should have a fair election for who should be CSM chair.
*mutes everyone not in GS*
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Lila Penney
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:04:00 -
[85]
Sadly, based on all evidence I can see it's clear that Jade is unable to remain within his remit, and therefore I support this.
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Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:08:00 -
[86]
I have to admit, it's pretty funny how much of a giant joke the entire CSM is. |
Inanna Zuni
The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:32:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 10/06/2008 20:33:17
Originally by: Jade Constantine Well actually the sanction against Inanna was a 30 sec mute.
This appears to be a case of "state it often enough and maybe people will start to believe it" but the record speaks differently:
[i][ 2008.06.08 21:40:29 ] EVE System > Inanna Zuni was muted by Jade Constantine., Effective until 2008.06.08 21:10:28. [ 2008.06.08 21:44:06 ] EVE System > Inanna Zuni was muted by Jade Constantine., Effective until 2008.06.08 21:14:05. [ 2008.06.08 21:45:32 ] Hardin > Hang on where is inanna
So muted at 21:40:29 and again 3+ minutes later (for some reason) and still blocked (and, indeed, booted) at 21:45:32. In most of that time I had not been able to *see* the discussion, let alone vote at any point, thus
Originally by: Jade Constantine Its entirely false for you to state that she wasn't able to join against till after the vote - she was given an opportunity to cast her vote when she'd rejoined.
is quite ridiculous as I didn't even know what the vote was about having been kicked and re-entered twice then kicked an unable to re-enter! Yes, it was subsequently suggested that there is something odd about that channel's controls (unique, indeed; I haven't been able to replicate it on any other channel) so maybe some of that was unintentional, but it doesn't change the sequence of events into that you repeatedly suggest.
IZ
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Dohl Khrensen
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:32:00 -
[88]
Its hardly a joke. The ridiculous fascination with it is though. |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:46:00 -
[89]
who didn't see this coming.
boot the loon. |
JafoPBCFR
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:55:00 -
[90]
Seeing the log. Seeing Jade comin here and act 12. I wish i had voted for another. Dunno maybe his Dad wrote up his little Spiel that made me vote for him.
Im not a Goon Or a Goon Alt. he dont know me from Adam. I want him off the chair before he has another "Malfunction with the channel" when its time to Vote for a important issue.
Also who come to the chair i would hope would know what it is tobe a chair and not make there little wise*****s after every vote.
And Jane Growup. Ya want to play Big Boy then play it.
I Vote to have Him removed from the chair and if he cant settle down and work for me twards my Goals in the game. I want him out of the CSM and put somone who can do the job with out being a burden to the system. |
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