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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.06 03:31:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Goumindong I am sorry, how are we going to get useful ideas on the agenda when you guys won't even give us official threads where we can explain the problems and concerns of changes?
That is kinda like having big pharma write the medicare bill with no input from the public and claiming its been widely discussed and the public has had the chance to weigh in.
God damn it, man, how thick-headed are you? Threads in Assembly Hall ARE OFFICIAL.
where we can explain the problems and concerns of changes. You cannot do that in the Assembly Hall threads. They're rallies, not discussions.
slap
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:11:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Goumindong I am sorry, how are we going to get useful ideas on the agenda when you guys won't even give us official threads where we can explain the problems and concerns of changes?
That is kinda like having big pharma write the medicare bill with no input from the public and claiming its been widely discussed and the public has had the chance to weigh in.
God damn it, man, how thick-headed are you? Threads in Assembly Hall ARE OFFICIAL.
You seem to have only half read, official yes, discussions? Certainly not.
Most of the posting in assembly is almost entirely spam in the form of /signed or simply blank posts with support checked--no one is interested in asking questions or clarifying, just shoring up hasty "support". Is this me too syndrome a discussion by any measure?
I really would like to bring up the simple point once more that removing the posting from the supporting would greatly increase the effectiveness of the forum.
In other words you either post to discuss or you just show support without having to spam.
In other words adding a poll to each thread in the form of support or don't support.
Becuase really people I'm hearing both sides of the world are ending.
On one had you have people saying :it's official and works perfectly" on the other hand I hear "NOTHING WORKS IT'S NOT A DISCUSSION AT ALL!!"
I'm sorry but I personally have been discussing threads on that forum, maybe people should just be less lazy.
but lets face it not everyone has something to add some people might just think someone else's idea is great.
in other words : YOU NEED BOTH FOR THE SYSTEM TO WORK
the system currently is allowing for discussions trust me sure there is spam but that doesn't rule out the discussions taking place. I mean even if only 5 people have posted it's still a discussion lets not start judging how many posts it should take before it counts.
and currently players can show their support to the threat meaning "I have nothing to add, I like your idea."
The idea is to show CCP and the CSM what players want brought up
the other goal is to discuss what should be brought up.
Thus we need both, stop saying it's not one or the other it's both, it's just not done perfectly.
But CCP can't remove the ability to vote for a thread to be brought up and it would be stupid for us to have another forum for each vited in topic for nothing but discussion... or would it?
either way we have to work with it this year and next year we can see what went wrong AKA support = spam IN BETWEEN the discussions at hand. And it will be more successful.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:13:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Frankly, if you don't think there's enough discussion, go chip in a few comments. And if you don't think there's enough opportunity for discussion(which is really the relevant part here), then all you have to do is acknowledge the possibility of you going and chipping in a few comments. That shouldn't be too hard, right?
The lack of real discussion is a symptom of a whole host of problems, not something you or I can ameliorate--it exemplifies the worst aspects of an internet forum: completely unmoderated, saturated in "me too" posts and there's too much thread overlap. Just posting more or more constructively means nothing in this context because of the volume of people spamming and structural limits of the forum.
See also: monster trucks. It's a lost cause.
Please note what you are currently doing by posting how badly your contradicting yourself.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.06 22:13:00 -
[4]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 06/06/2008 22:17:28
Originally by: Arithron And, in question 2 above I asked if you were going to discuss the 60+ issues.
It appears, from your answer, that you aren't going to in a CSM meeting, as required. Can you explain how bypassing one of the main responsibilities of a CSM is in keeping with what you were elected to do, and said you would do? This is a question to all CSM members, btw...
Take care, Arithron
she said they will discuss all 60 issues.
can you not read?
Quote: 2. Are you going to discuss each of the 60+ issues in turn?
If the issue gets support and goes to the Iceland agenda yes we will.
as in they will discuss all 60 issues. It's not the job of the 1st CSM meetings to discuss anything. They are only voting if the issue SHOULD be taken to CCP to BE discussed.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.08 04:26:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: MotherMoon
Thus we need both, stop saying it's not one or the other it's both, it's just not done perfectly.
I've never said that the system is perfect or that its anyones fault. I have said that the CSM needs to take some initiative and make the threads in here where we can discuss the issues without the ******** mechanics getting in the way.
It doesn't take ANY effort except making a post that says "discuss this issue in here" and then reading it. Hell you will probably save time since you now don't have to deal with the **** in the other thread.
You know I've never gotten that out of what you posted in the past
Honesty here is my idea for next year.
Step1. Assembly hall You post an issue you believe the CSM should take up with CCP. People just pure and simple vote or a CSM take it under their wing. The way the system turned out working. This topics will have no 7 day period or anything.
Step2. CSM vote The CSM run thier weekly meeting and vote in what issues are important enough to bring up with CCP.
Step3. Discussion thread A thread is started for each issue that will make it in for players to discuss what changes they want to see on the topic. The CSM simply read through it and write down what the players want or suggest. If so many player all have the same idea the idea HAS to go through to CCP.
Step 4. last 7 days Once there are only 7 days left weekly CSM voting ends and they send off a document with every idea that is going to be brought up to CCP. the Discussion threads continue but at this point only CSM members can pick comments to add to document to be used at the meeting to reflect what the playerbase wants to see.
Step5. CCP and CSM meet to discuss the topics they bring up, armed with documentation from the forums of what the payers have said on each topic.
How does that sound? I mean really, shouldn't the discussion dicate WHAT is brought up to CCP not IF it should be brought up?
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