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Taedron
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 14:20:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Taedron on 12/06/2008 14:21:29 Artillery needs a boost at all sizes, just 1400mm is the most visible because it has the largest gap when compared to rails and beams. Especially now that there are ranged bonused ships that use those weapons. Additionally, the issue isn't entirely with the guns themselves (though they do need 75% better tracking and 10% more range and maybe a bit more damage). The main comparison people do with 1400mm arty is the sniper battleships and the tempest is just terrible compared to a rokh or apoc, and is even bad when compared to a mega or abaddon. The tempest is the only one that can't DD tank and hit to 150km. It relies on midslot tracking/opt modules where as the others rely on lowslot mods which are far superior. Also, they use too much grid, or alternately the BSs doesn't have enough grid. Just freeing up the low slot that we currently need for an RCU2 would help slightly.
Fix all arty and fix Minmatar battleships.
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Elektrea
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:15:00 -
[62]
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AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2008.06.14 03:23:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ulstan Edited by: Ulstan on 02/06/2008 18:06:29
Quote: 1400mm artillery as is stands arguably represents the worst of the large long range weapon systems.
You have to take the rough with the smooth. I think the fastest ship should have the weakest long range fire. You have excellent short range fire. Autocannons are good enough that amarrians mount them on their ships instead of lasers. Now, they may be 'too much' too weak, but I'd definitely say they should be the weakest. I'm not averse to looking at and overhauling them, but I think you'd have to expect to give up the 'capless weapon' bonus in order to make any real progress.
You're telling me that the 30m/s that a tempest has over other battleships compensates for having ridiculous weapon systems? Autocannons don't have the best DPS, or range, or ammo usage... they're only used by amarrians because they can't figure out how to use lasers effectively with a tank . Weakest is fine, whatever, but at least set it in line. Maybe you should visit the 10+ page thread between Liang and Goumindong on why 1400s are outdone in every way. Capless means virtually nothing anyway.
Anyway, OP supported as artillery is currently crap.
Astro
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Gantrithor105
Acerbus Vindictum Critical Dissent
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Posted - 2008.06.14 04:20:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Gantrithor105 on 14/06/2008 04:20:10 While I have no unique or useful suggestions, I did want to give my support in that I personally feel Arty (and ACs as well to a lesser degree) need to be looked at.
*edit* man, it's hard to remember to hit that I support button
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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.14 05:00:00 -
[65]
I support the upgrade of the 1400mm arties. The biggest issue as i see it is the amount of bullets in clip that are way lower than the other weapon types. I would suggest increase the clip size so that it can take more shots per clip ( i don't know if this is the rioght terminology- i mean to increase the amount of shots before reloading)
Another suggestion could be to increase the amount of bullets per clip decrease RoF and increase the damage to make the Alpha more significant maintaining the same DPS in the long run. _______________________________ Join the biggest Minmatar Corp! www.BrutorTribe.com
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Anahid Brutus
TunkbwahCorp
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Posted - 2008.06.14 08:12:00 -
[66]
as if missing battleships that are moving at 100 ms at 100km range just because of the worthless tracking wasn't depressing enough in itself, you'll also be stuck on trying to reload in a couple barrages if there's any lag at all in system, which combined effectively puts your dps somewhere around shit.
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Zax Drien
DAB
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Posted - 2008.06.14 09:02:00 -
[67]
I'll take a this.
<> Ol' blue eyes <> |
Ninketsu
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Posted - 2008.06.14 09:28:00 -
[68]
WTB boost ______________________________________ Gobling Artillery 1.Find a cousin. 2.Load the cousin in the cannon. 3.Find another cousin. |
beor oranes
Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.06.14 09:58:00 -
[69]
More alpha and a bigger clip size would be nice, I can't offer any idea's to actually balance it but it does really need to be looked at. ------------------------------------------------ Either pick a dry year when fighting wars or civilize the moronic races and have no wars at all! |
Thercon Jair
InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.06.14 11:18:00 -
[70]
As someone has said, the problem lies with all arties. Oh, and as we're on it, could we please have a third range of artillery guns to bring it in line with the other races range of guns available?
As a note: artillery needs revising as you need so many modules to compensate for the lack of range/tracking and locking range you completely fail to fit any kind of tank/buffer, as all other BSs can do while still outranging and out-dps-ing the minmatar BS line of ships, which is kind of sad. And, of course, you need fitting mods to fit a full rack of 1400mm Arties, yet it doesn't include the ability to fill up the remaining 2 highslots of a tempest.
Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
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Alpha Trix
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Posted - 2008.06.14 13:53:00 -
[71]
Very much supported.
"Alpha" Trix |
Demtalin le'Mercennaire
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.14 14:02:00 -
[72]
I only really want 2 changes at the moment.
- Give us back our Alpha strike - Minmatar don't really have anything special here anymore.
- Increase the tracking to be similar to, say, the slowest tracking equivilant compeditors guns.
I do have a suggestion of how alpha strike could be improved, I got this after reading someone elses suggestion of burst fire:
- When an arty is activated for the first time it fires 2 shots (2.0x the current alpha), it then fires as per usual...this may be over powered, so penalties such as waiting longer for normal fire to resume, or having each of the first 2 shots only do 75% of their normal damage so they have 1.5x the alpha. -------- Billy Jean is not my lover |
Elenath
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.14 14:30:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Elenath on 14/06/2008 14:30:25 Not sure how I missed this thread.
/signed 100 times.
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Myrkala
Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2008.06.14 16:05:00 -
[74]
/signed
1. Increase Clip-Size Please!
2. Maybe increase Alpha and lower ROF, not sure if really needed. "Ruppie ain't no puppie." |
Mudbonereaper
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Posted - 2008.06.14 17:06:00 -
[75]
signed
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Roland 99
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.14 17:09:00 -
[76]
OP definitely supported. The tempest is currently the worst fleet sniper due to 1400's and was hit the hardest by scripting. You cannot have any kind of a hp buffer without dropping your optimal with tremor under 140. Add in the 25% tracking penalty of tremor and you can't effectively hit a cruiser hull at that range if it's moving.
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nabort
omen.
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Posted - 2008.06.14 18:35:00 -
[77]
Gief boost plz
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Zurin Arctus
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Posted - 2008.06.14 19:13:00 -
[78]
Quote:
- Increase the tracking to be similar to, say, the slowest tracking equivilant compeditors guns.
So you want the same tracking as other guns, or better, but you also want to keep a DPS edge. That seems very fair to people using rails/lasers.
Quote: - When an arty is activated for the first time it fires 2 shots (2.0x the current alpha), it then fires as per usual...this may be over powered, so penalties such as waiting longer for normal fire to resume, or having each of the first 2 shots only do 75% of their normal damage so they have 1.5x the alpha.
Because it would be so fair for single minmatar battleships to be able to double-alpha for >10,000. What an idiotic idea. I'm saying no until you give hybrids and lasers overpowered activated abilities of their own.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 19:27:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Quote:
- Increase the tracking to be similar to, say, the slowest tracking equivilant compeditors guns.
So you want the same tracking as other guns, or better, but you also want to keep a DPS edge. That seems very fair to people using rails/lasers.
If by "DPS edge" you mean "lowest DPS of all long range turrets" then yes, it is fair.
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Quote: - When an arty is activated for the first time it fires 2 shots (2.0x the current alpha), it then fires as per usual...this may be over powered, so penalties such as waiting longer for normal fire to resume, or having each of the first 2 shots only do 75% of their normal damage so they have 1.5x the alpha.
Because it would be so fair for single minmatar battleships to be able to double-alpha for >10,000. What an idiotic idea. I'm saying no until you give hybrids and lasers overpowered activated abilities of their own.
Yeah, it's not like extreme alpha is supposed to be characteristic of arty or anything. And it's not like HP has been boosted to the point where the effectiveness of arty's alpha strike would need to be reexamined.
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The Speaker
The Clue Factory
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Posted - 2008.06.14 19:29:00 -
[80]
Minmatar battleships are laughable at the moment. Any sort of buff to either large projectile guns or the ships themselves would help.
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Zurin Arctus
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Posted - 2008.06.14 20:18:00 -
[81]
Quote:
Yeah, it's not like extreme alpha is supposed to be characteristic of arty or anything. And it's not like HP has been boosted to the point where the effectiveness of arty's alpha strike would need to be reexamined.
It hasn't been boosted to that point. >6k alpha is fine for now, and >10k would be idiotic and overpowered in fleet battles. Boost overall DPS a little if you must, and clip size, fine, but you can't have both superior DPS and tracking. I know your little mind struggles with this concept, but there is such a thing as considering how buffs will affect other races.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 20:22:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Quote:
Yeah, it's not like extreme alpha is supposed to be characteristic of arty or anything. And it's not like HP has been boosted to the point where the effectiveness of arty's alpha strike would need to be reexamined.
It hasn't been boosted to that point. >6k alpha is fine for now, and >10k would be idiotic and overpowered in fleet battles. Boost overall DPS a little if you must, and clip size, fine, but you can't have both superior DPS and tracking. I know your little mind struggles with this concept, but there is such a thing as considering how buffs will affect other races.
Say it with me: "Artillery have the worst DPS of long range turrets."
See how hard that wasn't?
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Zurin Arctus
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Posted - 2008.06.14 20:41:00 -
[83]
Quote:
Say it with me: "Artillery have the worst DPS of long range turrets."
See how hard that wasn't?
I'm not as talented as you are at lying. In fact I don't really even like it.
Anyway, clearly, logic is not going to dissuade you. Go whine with your goon CSM's some more.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 21:14:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
I'm not as talented as you are at lying. In fact I don't really even like it.
Anyway, clearly, logic is not going to dissuade you. Go whine with your goon CSM's some more.
Are you being willfully ignorant? Using "logic" only works if you're using facts, which in this case, you aren't.
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Joudas
Tritanium Workers Union
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Posted - 2008.06.14 21:41:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Quote:
Say it with me: "Artillery have the worst DPS of long range turrets."
See how hard that wasn't?
I'm not as talented as you are at lying. In fact I don't really even like it.
Anyway, clearly, logic is not going to dissuade you. Go whine with your goon CSM's some more.
Zuric are you god damn ********, i mean honestly your just like the drunk shouting in the middle of the village claiming his ***** is full of phantoms and needs to be cleansed by nailing little kids...
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Queen Toodlums
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Posted - 2008.06.14 22:05:00 -
[86]
No need to say more. In support of this topic.
Queen Toodlums
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Roland 99
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.14 23:02:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Considering how buffs will affect other races.
You mean something like....say all the 80 K Pulse laser apoc's running around?
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Veryez
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Posted - 2008.06.15 01:35:00 -
[88]
There is no question 1400's are lagging behind other long ranged weapons. They were bad until the latest nerf of adding tracking scripts. Now 2 tracking computers are needed to boost the range up for fleet fights and no longer help tracking, which tremor (which you must use to compete at range) cripples. Yeah CCP you broke them, maybe you should look at a fix.
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Zhongchao84
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Posted - 2008.06.15 03:25:00 -
[89]
signed
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strawberry alarmclock
Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.06.15 14:12:00 -
[90]
i got around 1 k damage with my 1400mm i don't see the issue.
\ not sighned
we are noob mercs u will fear us laugh at us. |
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