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Xantheris
Unknown-Heroes Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.22 07:20:00 -
[1]
I know it's probably been asked and answered a million times. But here goes anyway.
When looking at the Market History, volume indicates total movement of that item on that day correct? It is sells + buys = volume. And there is no way to know how many were either sold or bought, just the total?
So if the volume on Item X is 100 there could be a few possibilities.
100 of Item X was bought and 0 was sold = 100 volume 0 of Item X was bought and 100 was sold = 100 volume 50 of Item X was bought and 50 was sold = 100 volume
Or anything inbetween.
Thanks in advance!
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.04.22 07:34:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Xantheris It is sells + buys = volume. And there is no way to know how many were either sold or bought, just the total?
Exactly correct.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Sphynx Stormlord
Gallente Snuff inc
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Posted - 2008.04.22 08:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sphynx Stormlord on 22/04/2008 08:21:30 Each transaction involves both a buyer and a seller, ie number of sells=number of buys. The volume is the total quantity moved.
If the average price is close to the high price, then it is likly that mostly people were buying from standing sell orders. If it is close to the low price, then mostly people were selling to standing buy orders.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.04.22 08:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord Edited by: Sphynx Stormlord on 22/04/2008 08:21:30 Each transaction involves both a buyer and a seller, ie number of sells=number of buys. The volume is the total quantity moved.
If the average price is close to the high price, then it is likly that mostly people were buying from standing sell orders. If it is close to the low price, then mostly people were selling to standing buy orders.
Approved. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.04.22 08:58:00 -
[5]
Toe May To, Toe Mah To.
Either way you are still a Moe Ron. |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.04.22 09:57:00 -
[6]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/04/2008 09:58:41
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Toe May To, Toe Mah To.
Either way you are still a Moe Ron.
I'm sorry, that position is already taken by Ricdic and he's not comfortable with sharing it. As a matter fact, I can hear him say "Absolutely" as I write this. At least you're not boycotting the forums again... which means you're willing to learn from your mistakes and better yourself although I hope you agree your timing is not exactly the best.
"I don't haul, period." |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.04.22 10:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: YouGotRipped I'm sorry, that position is already taken by Ricdic and he's not comfortable with sharing it. As a matter fact, I can hear him say "Absolutely" as I write this. At least you're not boycotting the forums again... which means you're willing to learn from your mistakes and better yourself although I hope you agree your timing is not exactly the best.
>sighs< Dude, there is evemail if you feel the need to get something of your chest. If that is not enough I anxiously await your war declaration. Until then could you please try to contain your need for trolling on the forums? If you can not I will be happy to follow through and add you to my greasemonkey list. The only time you've been worth reading was when you floundered around trying to push that scam ipo onto any sucker that would bite. Your "fail", as you like to say, was a most enjoyable read. Other than that, you are at best just visual graffiti without value. I only spend the 2 minutes to type this as for some reason you seem to want to use the forums are some sort of personal vendetta grounds and ... well I haven't enjoyed arguing with teenagers since I was one living in my mom's basement. Perhaps when you move out of yours you'll understand the futility of explaining to a turd why turds are no fun.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.04.22 10:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/04/2008 10:45:07
I wonder why I haven't received an ingame mail with the following:
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Toe May To, Toe Mah To.
Either way you are still a Moe Ron.
Originally by: Shar Tegral I was one living in my mom's basement.
What you're looking for is a light intensity of around 120,000 lux. If less, you're still there.
Jeder stirbt alleine. |
Raskor
Crossflow Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.04.22 15:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: YouGotRipped I wonder why I haven't received an ingame mail with the following:
I wonder why you graced us with the lack of your presence for a week.
Did you get a forum ban for your trolling? Did you still not learn your lesson?
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.04.22 17:34:00 -
[10]
Is there anyone else who would like to see a burther breakdown of how many were sold to buy orders and how many were bought from sell orders?
In highly dynamic markets, trying to look at the 'average' to figure out if it's a sellers or buyers market isn't always very precise. |
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Athre
Minmatar The HIgher Standard
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Posted - 2008.04.23 22:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ulstan Is there anyone else who would like to see a burther breakdown of how many were sold to buy orders and how many were bought from sell orders?
In highly dynamic markets, trying to look at the 'average' to figure out if it's a sellers or buyers market isn't always very precise.
I'm not sure I totally follow.. Are you asking to determine whom the lister was? A buy order or sell order? Because every transaction must have a buyer AND a seller as was noted earlier in the thread. Please try to keep up.
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Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.23 22:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Athre
Originally by: Ulstan Is there anyone else who would like to see a burther breakdown of how many were sold to buy orders and how many were bought from sell orders?
In highly dynamic markets, trying to look at the 'average' to figure out if it's a sellers or buyers market isn't always very precise.
I'm not sure I totally follow.. Are you asking to determine whom the lister was? A buy order or sell order? Because every transaction must have a buyer AND a seller as was noted earlier in the thread. Please try to keep up.
Yes, but one of them placed the order first, the other is filling that order (or modifying on of their own orders). It would be useful to know how much of the volume is made up of people selling to existing buy orders and how much is people buying from existing sell orders.
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Xantheris
Unknown-Heroes Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.24 10:01:00 -
[13]
Thanks for all the answers guys and gals. Some stuff I didn't think about was brought up. So obviously, although I didn't clearly state it, Amount Bought = Amount Sold. That is because each transaction involves a buyer and a seller. What my question "really" should have been is "How do I tell if Buy Orders are being filled or Sell Orders are being filled?"
Someone said that if the average is closer to the daily high then it is probably more Sell Orders being filled, and if the average is closer to the daily low then it is probably more Buy Orders being filled.
Is that a fairly accurate way to determine this stuff? I understand that during the day/week/whatever period there are anomalies, but will this method give me a ballpark idea?
Again, thanks in advance!!!
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Feronia
Gallente Magma Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.24 12:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Xantheris
Someone said that if the average is closer to the daily high then it is probably more Sell Orders being filled, and if the average is closer to the daily low then it is probably more Buy Orders being filled.
Its as accurate as it really needs to be.
This is some very valuable info and a lot of people underestimate its value. Not only does it tell you if its a 'buyer-' or 'seller-controlled' market, but it also gives an indication of future price/trend changes.
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Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.24 14:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Xantheris Someone said that if the average is closer to the daily high then it is probably more Sell Orders being filled, and if the average is closer to the daily low then it is probably more Buy Orders being filled.
Is that a fairly accurate way to determine this stuff?
The daily high/low is influenced far more by typos, mistakes and laziness than by any market trend.
The main use of that information is to see if someone is tempering with the average price by placing and then filling orders far from the average.
I would not use the daily high/low for anything without first running it through some heuristics to remove annomilies, and even then its greatest use is for finding those annomilies.
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Myrdyr
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Posted - 2008.04.24 14:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ki Anna
Originally by: Xantheris Someone said that if the average is closer to the daily high then it is probably more Sell Orders being filled, and if the average is closer to the daily low then it is probably more Buy Orders being filled.
Is that a fairly accurate way to determine this stuff?
The daily high/low is influenced far more by typos, mistakes and laziness than by any market trend.
The main use of that information is to see if someone is tempering with the average price by placing and then filling orders far from the average.
I would not use the daily high/low for anything without first running it through some heuristics to remove annomilies, and even then its greatest use is for finding those annomilies.
Actually CCP already remove market anomalies, which makes for poor analytics when it comes to items that trade in "batches". I've seen billions of isk worth of volume truncated off items that can trade in the dozens of billions of volume daily. Please post constructively. ~Saint |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.04.24 15:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Athre
Originally by: Ulstan Is there anyone else who would like to see a burther breakdown of how many were sold to buy orders and how many were bought from sell orders?
In highly dynamic markets, trying to look at the 'average' to figure out if it's a sellers or buyers market isn't always very precise.
I'm not sure I totally follow.. Are you asking to determine whom the lister was? A buy order or sell order? Because every transaction must have a buyer AND a seller as was noted earlier in the thread. Please try to keep up.
Every transaction does have a buyer and a seller. However, some transactions are sellers selling to buy orders, and some transactions are buyers buying from sell orders. I'd like a clearer breakdown of which is which. I'm sure you can see why that information is helpful in markets that are volatile enough, have enough outliers, etc, to make trying to determine it with the average less precise than I'd like.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.04.24 16:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ulstan I'm sure you can see why that information is helpful in markets that are volatile enough, have enough outliers, etc, to make trying to determine it with the average less precise than I'd like.
Indeed. I would hazard a guess that CCP would be very much against changing the simplicity of the data storage schema myself. "Need for Speed" initiative would supersede the utility of a segregated additional field.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.04.24 16:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Myrdyr
Originally by: Ki Anna
Originally by: Xantheris Someone said that if the average is closer to the daily high then it is probably more Sell Orders being filled, and if the average is closer to the daily low then it is probably more Buy Orders being filled.
Is that a fairly accurate way to determine this stuff?
The daily high/low is influenced far more by typos, mistakes and laziness than by any market trend.
The main use of that information is to see if someone is tempering with the average price by placing and then filling orders far from the average.
I would not use the daily high/low for anything without first running it through some heuristics to remove annomilies, and even then its greatest use is for finding those annomilies.
Actually CCP already remove market anomalies, which makes for poor analytics when it comes to items that trade in "batches". I've seen billions of isk worth of volume truncated off items that can trade in the dozens of billions of volume daily.
They remove outliers, anomalies are not necessarily the same thing. 1 million orders for 1 unit of trit is an anomaly, but they aren't necessarily outliers.
We also don't know the exact rules CCP uses to remove outliers. It seems to be anything beyond two standard deviations from the mean... though it's hard to tell for sure.
In any case, if outliers were not removed the market graphs would all be worthless so we should all be glad it is done.
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Iosue
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Posted - 2008.04.24 19:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Xantheris Thanks for all the answers guys and gals. Some stuff I didn't think about was brought up. So obviously, although I didn't clearly state it, Amount Bought = Amount Sold. That is because each transaction involves a buyer and a seller. What my question "really" should have been is "How do I tell if Buy Orders are being filled or Sell Orders are being filled?"
Someone said that if the average is closer to the daily high then it is probably more Sell Orders being filled, and if the average is closer to the daily low then it is probably more Buy Orders being filled.
Is that a fairly accurate way to determine this stuff? I understand that during the day/week/whatever period there are anomalies, but will this method give me a ballpark idea?
Again, thanks in advance!!!
i don't know of an exact way to determine this but there is a way to get "ballpark" figures. export the market data into excel (or something similar). subtract volume remaining from the original volume on the order. subtract the issue date of the order from the date the export was made. at this point you should have an idea of: 1) the amount sold for each order and 2) the time it took to sell. then divide them to get an average sold per day per order. you can also add these averages together to get an average daily sold for the region. i know this is not exact, but it can tell you what items/orders are moving in greater quaitites across the region. good luck.
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