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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Anubis Xian
Vertigo One
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Posted - 2008.04.15 20:23:00 -
[31]
My Learning skills are maxed, the only thing I'd change about the Learning skills is add the very much missing Adv Learning itself.
This whole thing about Learning skills is silly, you either train them...or you don't. |
Salak Sarkin
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Posted - 2008.04.17 03:10:00 -
[32]
Part of the beauty of eve is that it is not a game that you can just grind through. It takes time and dedication to create the character that you want. If you could just instantly have all the benifits from learning skills, then it would take away from the design and the idea of time preferance that is incorperated into the game. Eve is not meant to be mastered in a few days or even a year, but through the dedication of the players and the choices that they make. If you don't like that concept, then eve is not for you and you should look at a skill based game where the skills are improved through exp and grinding. That is my two cents worth. (btw i have all my learning skills at lv.5) |
grgjegb gergerg
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.17 03:53:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Meta breeze Step 1 Remove all learning skills except the skill learning.
Step 2 Maintain attribute of all charaters (before skill removale)
Step 3 Give everybody 1 attribute point at every 1 mil SP (max 10 in every of the five attribute)
Step 4 Don't give someone an attribute point if he reach 24mil sp and already has 28 more points than his character base attribute.
Step 5 ?
Step 6 profit
Pfft, everyone knows there's no step 6. Step SEVEN is profit. Noob!
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Mirei Jun
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Posted - 2008.04.17 05:46:00 -
[34]
Good thread.
Perhaps it would be of benefit to reiterate why the learning skills are so disliked in the first place:
The benefits of Learning are so high you have to train these skills. Yet, in taking the time to train Learning players (particularly new players) are forced to wait at least a month to access abilities that will allow them to enjoy the game more. This is Eve's equivalent of having to stand in one place and kill the same monster 10,000 times to level, like in other games. It is not fun, yet required to advance.
I hope this sums up the problem.
One suggestion I was surprised not to see was the removal of the base learning skills, leaving only advanced learning and the Learning skill, itself. This would be easy to implement. Just boost all new players' base attributes by 5, change the requirement on training the advanced learning skills to Learning Level 5, and be done. This means the most time any veteran player would have "lost" in learning would be about a month. However if you calculate how much they gained by training the skill you quickly realize they have lost nothing.
As stated above, I fully agree that Learning needs to be fixed. Yet, at the same time I also think attempting to somehow reimburse players for "lost" skill points would be cumbersome and prone to error, at best. I have purposed one simple solution. Many other considerable ones have also been put forth here. Hopefully our words will be heeded. |
Pliauga
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Posted - 2008.04.18 08:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lockefox This constant "remove learning skills" discussion truly is silly.
Learning skills provide for the two types of play in the world.
A) The kind of guy that really wants to make his mark as quickly as possible. They get ahead with SP for a good while and can one-up their counterpart both with skills and experience
B) The people who put their characters through college as it were. Yes, it's expensive for new players, yes it's tedious, but the long term payout is invaluable (much like a college education IRL). They end up behind group A for a little while as far as SP and experience goes, but their initial investment pays off in the long run.
EVE's skill system allows for maximum customization. Learning skills are just another tool in the arsenal. I am with the crowd that says do not change them in the slightest.
~Lockefox
Originally by: Salak Sarkin Part of the beauty of eve is that it is not a game that you can just grind through. It takes time and dedication to create the character that you want. If you could just instantly have all the benifits from learning skills, then it would take away from the design and the idea of time preferance that is incorperated into the game. Eve is not meant to be mastered in a few days or even a year, but through the dedication of the players and the choices that they make. If you don't like that concept, then eve is not for you and you should look at a skill based game where the skills are improved through exp and grinding. That is my two cents worth. (btw i have all my learning skills at lv.5)
i'm with these guys
If you plan to play for a longer period of time then learning skills are just another tactical option, as good as any other. It's just as reasonable as having blaster specialization (or any other weapons specialization).
Learning skills take away the instant gratification element from Eve, and that is why I love this game. You want to get somewhere - you have to work and PLAN for it.
Removing learning skills, for me is as logical as selling skillpoints for money, or making skill training action based.
This would kill the uniqueness of Eve among other MMORPG'uses.
If you think that training "learning skills" is the same as standing around doing nothing and dieing of boredom, you either have bad planning abilities and/or are simply missing the vastness of possibilities that is eve-online.
This is how I see these things, it's my personal opinion, feel free to disagree. |
Scruffy Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.18 10:46:00 -
[36]
What alot of you are missing with nerf style posts like this is the fact that however much CCP regrets learning skills, they are a part of the game and should not ever be messed with.
Those players who have invested the months of skill training to get their learning skills up will in time earn back that investment in time with faster skill training. I am not so sad to try and work out how long this could take but I do seem to recall that someone did an estimation a while ago and it was something like 18 months to two years roughly.
Two years until the investment of learning skills earns its time back....
Eve is all about risk vs reward and effort vs reward etc.etc.
If you choose not to train learning skills then over that two year period you will have a much more advanced group of usable skills, keeping in mind that learning skills don't really kick in until your training a low rank skill from level 4 to 5 or higher rank skills to lower levels.
Learning skills are not mandatory.
Unfortunately new players will always be less in game skilled than veterans, in the same way that when you was in WoW or SWG or what ever game you played before Eve that those who had played for four years were God like in power compared to you with your level 1 character killing rats and picking flowers for 20xp.
SO BLOODY WHAT. YOUR A NOOB, NEWB, ROOKIE, WHATEVER you are supposed to be weak as wet toilet paper, unlike those other games though Eve does now allow you to begin the game quite powerful.
When I started playing over four years ago you go 5k ISK and 40k sp.
Now you get 800k SP and are tech2 ready out of the box!!!
Unlike those other games Eve allows you as a newb to be dangerous to a veteran from the get go, maybe not one vs one, but Eve is all about CORPORATIONS;
A group of people combined into or acting as one body
A wolf pack can bring down a bear, because they work together as a team. The idea of Eve is to form or find a team,join it and through it be more able to deal with the harshness of Eve better than a lone pilot without a clue.
/rant over
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A Gramsci
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Posted - 2008.04.18 11:47:00 -
[37]
Sounds like a good idea.
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Arya Aiedail
Caldari SkillzKillz United For 0rder
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Posted - 2008.04.20 15:02:00 -
[38]
I can the the + and - for this idea but the only thing i can think off is simple.
this would rock for the altaholics like me (how many times did i train those damed learning skills by now?)
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The Boogyman
Old Galactic Earth Regiment Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.21 07:25:00 -
[39]
Edited by: The Boogyman on 21/04/2008 07:26:08 Edited by: The Boogyman on 21/04/2008 07:25:37 I guess I missed something, but I didn't realize that Learning Skills were an issue. I think what a bigger issue is people who made there characters when the game started and had to have crappy skills and didn't even know attributes had an effect on training (*cough* me *cough*), but we have to realize that besides the way our character looks, skills and attributes are the only thing that makes us different from one another. Nother ever good came from making everyone equal. Now I wouldn't mind getting compensated for the skills I didn't get at the start of the game
http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html
On a second note...HURRY UP with Ambulation!!! Let us buy apartments in stations and decorate them how we want too!! lol
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Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.21 07:44:00 -
[40]
leave them in....we dont need them taken out, people dont have to spend a month training them up at the start. it makes for a more varied playerbase. its more rewarding to get them up to a pont you see an effect by them. this only serves people who alt and people who wanna jump into the action right away and most likely wont stick out the game in the end.
they should stay, else wheres that time vs reward thing that the skill system has? the whole point of learners is to reward those taking the time to continue playing and make them see a marked improvement on thier over all future plan, compaired to the young teenage 'i wanna go pod ppl in my uber 2 week of learning BS with mad skillz' player. Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
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Torothanax
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Posted - 2008.04.21 08:11:00 -
[41]
I trained my basic learning skills to 5 before the req for advanced was lowered to 4. I had my advanced at 4 before I trained any serious pvp skills. Then they decided to give every new player combat skills right off the bat. T2 small guns right out of the box???? What? Took me a month to catch up my combat.
I later maxed my advanced learning skills as well, just so I could say I did. I've got 31 mil skill points, 5,376,000 in learning. I've got a set of +4's in my "learning" body. I don't regret training my learning skills, but I don't think they need to be messed with anymore either. It cheats the people that took the time learn them. The game would probably have been more fun for new people without learning skills, but it's too late to take them out now. Handing them out for free is even worse.
Is it really so hard to get the basic learning skills to 4 and advanced to 3?
If you're so worried about training new players faster, ask them to lower the price of implants further.
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Tabea Knute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 23:55:00 -
[42]
Every time I read such things, one thought comes up: Get the new chars back, to it was 2 or 3 years ago. It was hard to rise your SP in learnings; no high skills in any category.
Another point of the overpowered rookies is the pest of macro miners, that are able to skill for Exhumers the fast way. One gang is removed, the next is there nearly instantly. If you call for removing the learning skills, I will raise my voice to roll back the rookies to the situation 3 years ago. I hear the whining just now, if this would happen. |
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