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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.03.23 21:36:00 -
[1]
Edited by: 000Hunter000 on 23/03/2008 21:36:59 We all know the pain of overcrowded mission systems, and on top of that u get a silly agent that keeps handing u missions in the same bloody crowded and laggy system as well. even though the solution could be so easy, the more crowded the system gets, the further away u have to go when asking for a mission.
Anyways i would like to hear if this would be possible to somehow implement, cuz i'm sure it could atleast lessen the burden on those missionrunning hubs if it were possible to implement this.
NOTE: If u intend to come inhere and post 'omg get out of bla bla bla' ot 'missions suck bla bla bla' then don't even bother, and why are u reading the mission section on these forums anyways if u dislike missions so much? go bug ur kewl low sec pirate friends or ur 0.0 buddies or whatever. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Fuazzole
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.03.23 22:07:00 -
[2]
you could move
yes I did at least read the Title
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Richard Butt
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.23 22:16:00 -
[3]
There is always going to be a best-quality agent at a given level. Lots of people will, naturally, therefore do missions for that agent. Short of making every agent at a given level the same quality (and even in that case, system security and proximity to trade hubs would inevitably make one preferable to than the others) it's not going to change.
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Arazel Chainfire
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.03.23 23:03:00 -
[4]
Well... if there was just one mission hub in a particular spot (say all the lvl 4 agents were only in one system) this would probably work out quite well. However, this isn't always the case. I'll take as an example the Dodi area.
In the dodi are there are 3 lvl 4 agents within 2 jumps of each other - Dodi, Auvergne, and Aunia. With a system like you suggest, it wouldn't really help the situation at all because there are 3 decent quality lvl 4 agents so close and all overlapping.
Personally, I think it would be better if you could train a skill that allowed you to talk to your agent without going to the station. It would at least allow me to stay out of dodi a bit easier...
-Arazel
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
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Doctor Athena
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.24 10:43:00 -
[5]
You think this thread will lead to a solution?
You think CCP likes laged out systems?
Im sure they are doing all they can to improve this, becouse they want you to play.
Easiest way for you to do something about this is to simply move to a less popular system
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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.03.24 12:43:00 -
[6]
Wow! Some of u guys really don't have reading skill L1 even right?
Anyways i think the suggestion of a skill that lets u talk to an agent remotely is also a good one, i mean 4 or 5 jumps from Dod area and lag usually is ok and this way everybody gets what they want, no need to stay in the missionrunning hub so people can actually spread out.
Then again the low sec agent camping pirates will prolly whine that their victims don't need to enter low sec anymore allthough this could be fixed by forcing low sec agents to hand out missions in low sec only. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Sigul Siento
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 12:53:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sigul Siento on 24/03/2008 12:54:25 I'm sorry, but I think the "move"-comment at each individual player is the only viable choice, as it is the players and not CCP that has made it this way.
Allowe me to elaborate with a personal anecdote. I do salvaging most of the time, and for efficient use of my time I require a populated system with one or more level 4 kill-agents. But I wasn't happy with the salvage where I was and wanted to try to find a system with more of the salvage I'd rather have. Meaning finding the right race's system with the right race's agents. So I started looking. And found dozens of systems with level 4 quality 0+ agents in them, many of them in .5-.6 sec without neighbouring low sec. And the systems were deserted. Less than 10 people, often. And this was just my quick browse through a small number of corporations.
Modifications like allowing you to speak to your agent remotely would be a nice overall convinience, but the main problem is created by the missionrunners. I can't describe this behaviour in a non-derogatory manner, and it benefits my own activities, so I shall refrain. But the problem of lagged mission hubs can be solved by the players, without compromising earnings from the missions. Quite the opposite in fact since most of the hubs are .8-.9. In EVE, I'd think the choice between allowing the players to fix the problem (already possible) vs CCP imposing restrictions would be an easy one.
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.24 13:21:00 -
[8]
It's extremely easy to fix. GTFO of the mission hub.
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Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.03.24 13:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gypsio III It's extremely easy to fix. GTFO of the mission hub.
The most obvious explanations are often correct. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Alexis Corban
The Nietzian Way Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:53:00 -
[10]
They really should take a look at which agents are being used that are causing lag and make that npc corp have 2 or 3 agents of that level in other systems... |
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Richard Butt
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Alexis Corban They really should take a look at which agents are being used that are causing lag and make that npc corp have 2 or 3 agents of that level in other systems...
Which won't help at all. Like I said, there will always be one agent of a given level who is preferential to the others for whatever reason, and people will flock to that agent. Unless you expect every agent at a given level to be located in the same security system, have the same quality, be the same number of jumps from Jita etc. then there will inevitably be a preferred agent, and the problem comes right back with a vengeance, only shifted on somewhere else.
And yes, "move" is a perfectly valid response. Lag is only a symptom of the fact that everyone else wants to use "your" agent, but I suppose it's far easier to blame it all on CCP than to suck it up and work for that agent whose quality level is 2 lower...
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.24 17:29:00 -
[12]
mission hub lag, is it really even that bad? id rather get a big laggy mission in system than duo of death 4 jumps out
anyways my state standing alone lets me take any caldari lv 4 mission
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Kyanzes
Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:40:00 -
[13]
CCP *USE* the lag to discourage you from PvE. Want proof? Easy! CCP could have put good quality agents all across the galaxy to prevent lag but they didn't. Possible conclusions:
1 - they don't care 2 - they are incompetent to solve this 3 - they are using the lag to discourage people from playing PvE
I vote on the third option.
--------------------------------------------- GET TO THE CHOPPA!!! The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. |
Sigul Siento
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:53:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kyanzes CCP *USE* the lag to discourage you from PvE. Want proof? Easy! CCP could have put good quality agents all across the galaxy to prevent lag but they didn't. Possible conclusions:
Option 4: actually they did.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.24 22:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kyanzes CCP *USE* the lag to discourage you from PvE. Want proof? Easy! CCP could have put good quality agents all across the galaxy to prevent lag but they didn't. Possible conclusions:
1 - they don't care 2 - they are incompetent to solve this 3 - they are using the lag to discourage people from playing PvE
I vote on the third option.
This. It's not much coding work to duplicate an agent, give him another face and name. Instead of only 1 agent in 0.5 with q18 they could have made 10 of such agents, spread across highsec. Problem solved, instead of 200 in one we would have 20 in 10 (since people would chose another agent if there is an equal one with less people in local). But they do not, so i think they don't really care or don't want to fix the hubs. Instead they want to gather all missionrunners in few hubs so that they favourite player based, the "loftys", suicide pirats, loot-thiefs and ninja-salvagers, which make eve such a great "dark place" don't have much work and timeloss with traveling around the systems.
I don't like OPs solution very much, it cuts into profit. I don't want to travel 5 jumps + 5 jumps back for a mission like Zazzmatazz, which can be completed in less than 5 minutes.
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Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises Safe And Fun Environment
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Posted - 2008.03.25 04:38:00 -
[16]
It's so many posts like this that make me embarassed to be a mission runner.
This is not a single player game. This is a massively multiplayer game. I don't go in for PVP much, in the same way that in the real world I don't choose to be a soldier. However I at least recognise that the rest of the world exists, and that this has an impact on my life. Over-duplication of agents would just make this into a networked multiplayer game. You don't like your agent? Theres another one exactly the same just down the block. Bang goes the gameplay. There are just so many reasons why this would kill the point of Eve it's not worth going into.
It is how it is, and how it is has consequences. If there's a way around it already (GTFO) why would they change the game to pander to you? Get off your behind and do the work to make it better for yourself.
http://eveinfo.com/agents
Ingame: Channels & Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 10:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tranka Verrane It's so many posts like this that make me embarassed to be a mission runner.
This is not a single player game. This is a massively multiplayer game. I don't go in for PVP much, in the same way that in the real world I don't choose to be a soldier. However I at least recognise that the rest of the world exists, and that this has an impact on my life. Over-duplication of agents would just make this into a networked multiplayer game. You don't like your agent? Theres another one exactly the same just down the block. Bang goes the gameplay. There are just so many reasons why this would kill the point of Eve it's not worth going into.
It is how it is, and how it is has consequences. If there's a way around it already (GTFO) why would they change the game to pander to you? Get off your behind and do the work to make it better for yourself.
http://eveinfo.com/agents
Think again. Why exactly would this "kill the point of eve ?" There are few hubs more, so there is less lag in every hub, that's all. The rest remains the same: the missionrunners are not saver, nor harder to "access", it's just less frustration and screwed game experience because of reduced lag for all. Unless the "point of Eve" for you is exploiting a lag-situation, there are no changes, the status as massively multiplayer game is not affected at all by creating more agents of same quality and in the same system security. And now continue to be embarassed to be a mission runner if you like so.
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Salpad
darkmusse Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.25 10:33:00 -
[18]
What about temporary "agent rot"?
If an agent is heavily used throughout a period of 2 weeks, then his quality temporarily drops by 1. If he is heavily used throughout a period of 8 weeks, quality drops by 2 instead of 1, or 3 after 6 months. If he is very heavily usd, quality drop is double, or triple for exteme usage. When usage drops from heavy to normal, the agent recovers 1 quality per month.
Wouldn't that work?
-- Salpad |
Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Salpad What about temporary "agent rot"?
If an agent is heavily used throughout a period of 2 weeks, then his quality temporarily drops by 1. If he is heavily used throughout a period of 8 weeks, quality drops by 2 instead of 1, or 3 after 6 months. If he is very heavily usd, quality drop is double, or triple for exteme usage. When usage drops from heavy to normal, the agent recovers 1 quality per month.
Wouldn't that work?
You see, one of the problem is that Caldari alone have a big slice of the agents.
They alone have more level 4 kill missions agents in high sec than Gallente and Minmatar together. If you count 0+ quality level 4 kill missions agents in high sec they have more that the other 3 races together.
So any system with reduced quality for usage will damage other races agents faster than Caldari agents. That don't seem balanced.
Caldari currently have more lagging mission hubs because they have the best high sec agents and mission hubs. "Curing" a mostly Caldari problem with a cure that will damage mostly the non-Caldari players is hardly a good cure.
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Seriya
Eve Defence Force Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:42:00 -
[20]
I feel this has probably been suggested before, but;
Why not duplicate the most popular agents and spread them out? For example, if there's only one L4 Q20 agent for a popular corp, or they're all in the same system, just make more and spread them out?
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Yarkan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.03.25 14:29:00 -
[21]
Put all LVL 4 Agents in Low Sec. Pirates will help cleaning the lag. And Missionrunners perhaps move there asses out of empire.
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Dagle
Sanctuary Aegis Consortium
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Posted - 2008.03.25 15:14:00 -
[22]
Missionhub lag is the result of the pve system design. To fix it you need to fundamentally change the mission system. Here is 1 way:
1. Remove quality from every agent 2. Remove system security impact from LP calculations 3. Change agent divisions to one of these 4 categories -Combat (95% combat) -Research (current R&D) -Transport (100% courier) -A mixed combat/courier agent 4. LP based on Mission level (1-5); your social skills; your standing with the corp or standing with the faction 5. Remote contact to agents. As long as you're in a station owned by that corp, you can contact their XYZ agent who will give you a mission out of the station that you are in. You choose what level mission during the discussion and lv 5's can still be restricted to low sec stations. 6. Optional - make all LP dump into faction pool rather than corporate pool.
In short, what you do is remove all individual agents and replace it with an interface that allows communication to the corp's headquarter. You speak to the division you want to work with and they gives you a local mission. So if Cal Navy has 200 stations...there are now 200 location points where you can interface with the CN headquarters to get a mission instead of however many high end combat agents there currently are. Will this solve all overcrowding? No it surely would not, but I think it would go a long way to diversifying where missions are run.
Now to fix Jita...
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.03.25 15:53:00 -
[23]
I'd say working as designed ...
But if you look at the high ranking agents, they have a quote like giving mission every XX hours (or they used to have). Now if this was implemented globaly (i.e per agent, not per player), it would clean up the mission systems realy fast :-) Waiting for the patch that patches the last patch ... |
Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises Safe And Fun Environment
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Posted - 2008.03.26 23:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka I'd say working as designed ...
But if you look at the high ranking agents, they have a quote like giving mission every XX hours (or they used to have). Now if this was implemented globaly (i.e per agent, not per player), it would clean up the mission systems realy fast :-)
/signed
Ingame: Channels & Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK
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Dagle
Sanctuary Aegis Consortium
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka But if you look at the high ranking agents, they have a quote like giving mission every XX hours (or they used to have).
I believe the "frequency" indicator in an agent info refers to how often they will do a locate for you, not how often they will give you a mission.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.03.27 16:33:00 -
[26]
There are numerous solutions to this - primarily removing level and quality, and have that directly relate to your standing with that corp, but it could scale more linearly so there is no clear delineation between what is currently level 4, and the top tier at the other side.
Or, move. I hate to say it too, as it sounds like the easy catch all answer (which is why I posted my other one first), but it worked for me. Far more fun, too, as I switched to Amarr and I power through the missions now (T2 Tachys + Paladin + Sansha = profit).
----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..." |
Conq Er
Sweetrock Mining
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Posted - 2008.03.27 16:50:00 -
[27]
Yes.
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The Icefox
Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.03.28 05:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Yarkan Put all LVL 4 Agents in Low Sec. Pirates will help cleaning the lag. And Missionrunners perhaps move there asses out of empire.
This! Please send me more care-bears, I need their modules.
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Salpad
darkmusse Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Yarkan Put all LVL 4 Agents in Low Sec. Pirates will help cleaning the lag. And Missionrunners perhaps move there asses out of empire.
No. We'll just stop playing, and stop playing.
-- Salpad |
Richard Butt
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.28 21:02:00 -
[30]
Thought: Why do agents' levels have to be the same for everyone? What would be wrong with having, say, eight or nine broadly comparable agents (in terms of division, system security, and proximity to trade hubs) at a given level, and have their quality levels randomised to some degree, so that the "best" agent is different for differnet people? Possibly even have this change on a periodic basis so that you need to move around from time to time - and people will be moving from differnet agents to other differnt agents at different times.
Perhaps even have an agent's quality degrade if you run too many missions in quick succession, so you need to work for another agent for a while to make their standings recover.
Even better, have LP pooled at a faction level - not a corp level - so that you're not tied in to working for one corp constantly. Or derived standings could be used as an "exchange rate" between member corps of a faction - such as, you could have a small corp whose LP could be traded for "faction LP" at a rate based on their standings with the faction, and from them traded back to corp-specific LP. Would certainly encourage people running missions for more than one corp, especially if corps actually had different stuff available in their stores.
Essentially, the only real fix is to make it so that the best agent isn't always the same for every player, and the only way to do this is by having a more complex way of working out quality. As it is, there's a massive incentive to pick one agent in one corp and just work for them continually, and even when you do move on it's only to a better agent within the same corp as otherwise you're wasting a lot of your earned standings and LP.
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