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El Covah
LOCKDOWN. HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.02.12 09:55:00 -
[1]
Hello @ all.
I would like to make a suggestion and/or start a discussion about rigs.
Rigs are not removable (only destoryable) and very expensive. It happens with every patch that CCP changes the ship layouts, powergrid, CPU, bonuses etc. E.g. take the next patch with upcomming changes to resistances.
Rigs are often plugged in to enhance certain ship abilities or strenghen the role a ship has (e.g. tank). If CCP now goes and e.g. changes the Apoc to a real sniper-ship I can imagine many rigs plugged in become useless and a waste of many.
Why is there no possibility to remove rigs form ships if their layout or role is changed? I feel a little betrayed now having to destroy hundreds of millions of ISK because the ship has changed.
It would be a real nice move by CCP if we were not forced to do this or having useless rigs.
El.
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Lomas Barisa
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Posted - 2008.02.12 10:05:00 -
[2]
Buy a new Apoc and use the other for bait?
Seriously, it is not mandatory for you to fit rigs. I am sorry for your perceived loss.
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 10:06:00 -
[3]
Actually most rigs are pretty cheap.
The really expensive ones are speed rigs and cargo/salvaging rigs as far as I'm aware. There's not been a major speed nerf recently has there, and even if there was speed rigs would still be useful. Also no ships have been nerfed/changed that would invalidate cargo or salvage rigs.
What rigs and ships are you talking about specifically? ________________________________________________________________
Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
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Ex0101
Gallente Malicious Intentions The Church.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 10:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Ex0101 on 12/02/2008 10:17:06 Understand your argument, but its really not that much of a loss, average set of t1 rigs comes to 50-60 mill...
And this >>
Originally by: Lomas Barisa
Seriously, it is not mandatory for you to fit rigs.
You blatently dont or do and fail at pvp
--
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El Covah
LOCKDOWN. HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.02.12 10:17:00 -
[5]
Well I am not an amarr pilot, but the changes to the deimos definetly require a re-rigging of it.
El.
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 10:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: El Covah Well I am not an amarr pilot, but the changes to the deimos definetly require a re-rigging of it.
El.
Deimos is a Gallente ship :p ________________________________________________________________
Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.12 10:27:00 -
[7]
Edited by: cal nereus on 12/02/2008 10:29:24 Destroy the ship and replace it?
Continue using it until it explodes? Then replace it?
Destroy the rigs and replace those?
Sell it to someone at a bargain price, and replace it?
There are a number of things you can do to cut your losses and make the necessary changes. No need for a handout from the big men (and women) upstairs.
Edit: I agree that the rigs are a risky investment, not only cause you can lose them in battle, but because they might not be helpful later on. It's a risk that I try to take into consideration (I still lose isk overall, but the short-term benefits make up for the long-term difficulties). ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
Tenzing Choenden
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:01:00 -
[8]
the bad thing about rigs is that if you want to try a different setup, the rigs can alter your other setup unstable or inefficient.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:06:00 -
[9]
The entire concept of rigs was not simply a 4th rack of slots, but of special slots that CAN'T be easily changed.
Again, rig slots are NOT, and were very very much, never intended, to simply be a 4th rack of slots.
Better to do away with rigs than simply make a 4th rack.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot The entire concept of rigs was not simply a 4th rack of slots, but of special slots that CAN'T be easily changed.
Again, rig slots are NOT, and were very very much, never intended, to simply be a 4th rack of slots.
Better to do away with rigs than simply make a 4th rack.
This.
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Zaqar
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Sergeant Spot The entire concept of rigs was not simply a 4th rack of slots, but of special slots that CAN'T be easily changed.
Again, rig slots are NOT, and were very very much, never intended, to simply be a 4th rack of slots.
Better to do away with rigs than simply make a 4th rack.
This.
Sure, but that's not really what the OP is saying. He's just asking that when a ship is radically changed in a patch, that the rigs be released from it. Not such an unreasonable request imo...but it won't happen anyway :P
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ex0101 [ Originally by: Lomas Barisa
Seriously, it is not mandatory for you to fit rigs.
You blatently dont pvp or do and fail at pvp
Since when does a single ship matter so much in most Eve pvp combat that the lack of rigs (on most ship types) would actually make a difference in a fight? Last time I checked 1 v 1 situations between ships are extremely few and far inbetween. Especially so in 0.0.
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Cadiz
Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:35:00 -
[13]
El Covah! \o/ ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Marcus Xavier
Minmatar Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tenzing Choenden the bad thing about rigs is that if you want to try a different setup, the rigs can alter your other setup unstable or inefficient.
Have you tried testing the set-up in an alternative universe called Sisi (aka the Test Server)? ---------------- Mutatis Mutandis |
Cleric Hammond
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Posted - 2008.02.12 11:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Marcus Xavier Have you tried testing the set-up in an alternative universe called Sisi (aka the Test Server)?
What difference would that make? CCP makes new ship > You fit rigs > CCP changes ship > You hop on Sisi and play with fittings. You'd still have his original problem to deal with.
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ex0101 Edited by: Ex0101 on 12/02/2008 10:28:38 Edited by: Ex0101 on 12/02/2008 10:17:06 Understand your argument, but its really not that much of a loss, average set of t1 rigs comes to 50-60 mill...
Say it to my friend and his T2 armor rigged Nightmare.
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Ex0101
Gallente Malicious Intentions The Church.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ex0101 on 12/02/2008 12:21:00
Originally by: Hannobaal
Since when does a single ship matter so much in most Eve pvp combat that the lack of rigs (on most ship types) would actually make a difference in a fight? Last time I checked 1 v 1 situations between ships are extremely few and far inbetween. Especially so in 0.0.
This supposed to be bait? Whatever the scale of the battle, 1vs1, 5vs5, 10vs10, 20vs20, 300vs300 etc your telling me a rigged fleet vs an unrigged fleet makes no difference? What a load of rubbish to put it nicely.
--
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.12 12:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ex0101
This supposed to be bait? Whatever the scale of the battle, 1vs1, 5vs5, 10vs10, 20vs20, 300vs300 etc your telling me a rigged fleet vs an unrigged fleet makes no difference?
Accelerated grid loader rigs ;)
Sorry, couldn't resist
At any rate, while certain rigs are very powerful and useful, for a pirate rigs are often not his friend really. Given the fact that rigs often double the loss cost of a solid T2-fit ship while at the same time they don't provide you with a matching advantage, quite often you're better off in the long run flying unrigged ships (which do preform worse, but are cheaper to lose).
Unless it's speed rigs and such which will greatly increase your survivability.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:17:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 12/02/2008 13:19:27
Originally by: Ex0101 Edited by: Ex0101 on 12/02/2008 12:21:00
Originally by: Hannobaal
Since when does a single ship matter so much in most Eve pvp combat that the lack of rigs (on most ship types) would actually make a difference in a fight? Last time I checked 1 v 1 situations between ships are extremely few and far inbetween. Especially so in 0.0.
This supposed to be bait? Whatever the scale of the battle, 1vs1, 5vs5, 10vs10, 20vs20, 300vs300 etc your telling me a rigged fleet vs an unrigged fleet makes no difference? What a load of rubbish to put it nicely.
Because obviously all fights have equal numbers, and tactics and pilot abilities have nothing to do with it either....
Yes, rigs make a difference on a ship. But if one particular ship in a fleet of say 20 or more is rigged or not makes pretty much 0 difference for most ships in most situations (there are exceptions).
And I mean, if we go by your logic that rigs are mandatory because they give an additional advantage, then faction or even officer fittings would also be mandatory in pvp combat, because clearly they give an even bigger advantage, right?
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.12 13:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Ex0101
This supposed to be bait? Whatever the scale of the battle, 1vs1, 5vs5, 10vs10, 20vs20, 300vs300 etc your telling me a rigged fleet vs an unrigged fleet makes no difference?
Accelerated grid loader rigs ;)
Sorry, couldn't resist
At any rate, while certain rigs are very powerful and useful, for a pirate rigs are often not his friend really. Given the fact that rigs often double the loss cost of a solid T2-fit ship while at the same time they don't provide you with a matching advantage, quite often you're better off in the long run flying unrigged ships (which do preform worse, but are cheaper to lose).
Unless it's speed rigs and such which will greatly increase your survivability.
See, Branko gets it.
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Aindrias
Amarr Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.02.12 14:09:00 -
[21]
I understand the basis in which the Op makes this request/arguement.
I rat with an Apoc, have tracking and damage rigs on it so that I may rat faster and move along. While in essence doing more damage in PvP isn't a bad thing.. it won't compete with the Sniper setups recommended for the new Apoc config.
There's the "Adapt you idiot" philosophy, but um.. this is essentially like changing the rules out from underneath someone making "adapting" next to impossible. Not "someone is using a Nano-ship, so you have to adapt". Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the Amarr ship changes and "Ooomphing" and I also make my own rigs.
I don't have an intrisic problem with getting another Apoc in some fashion, but the OP does have a valid point.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.02.12 15:34:00 -
[22]
Only option for removing rigs that I would like to see is the ability to destroy a specific rig in your ship to replace it with another and not having to destroy all the rigs just because one no longer fits with the rest. -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
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Larg Kellein
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.12 16:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Abrazzar Only option for removing rigs that I would like to see is the ability to destroy a specific rig in your ship to replace it with another and not having to destroy all the rigs just because one no longer fits with the rest.
Eeehm... You mean exactly how it is now, then? Status Quo is an excellent band, but by its nature a poor change:-)
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Snipe Ranger
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Posted - 2008.02.12 16:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zaqar
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Sergeant Spot The entire concept of rigs was not simply a 4th rack of slots, but of special slots that CAN'T be easily changed.
Again, rig slots are NOT, and were very very much, never intended, to simply be a 4th rack of slots.
Better to do away with rigs than simply make a 4th rack.
This.
Sure, but that's not really what the OP is saying. He's just asking that when a ship is radically changed in a patch, that the rigs be released from it. Not such an unreasonable request imo...but it won't happen anyway :P
This....
Would require a certain level of detail to customer care, reading the responses to this op you can tell the eve community has been conditioned quite well to what they can expect from this company.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.02.12 16:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Darth Felin
Originally by: Ex0101 Edited by: Ex0101 on 12/02/2008 10:28:38 Edited by: Ex0101 on 12/02/2008 10:17:06 Understand your argument, but its really not that much of a loss, average set of t1 rigs comes to 50-60 mill...
Say it to my friend and his T2 armor rigged Nightmare.
Ahem. With five low slots you can fit three hardeners and 2 LAR's. Leaving you with SEVEN MIDSLOTS to fill with painful things. Tell your buddy to stop crying. ---------------- Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!) |
Yazmina
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Posted - 2008.02.12 17:01:00 -
[26]
I disagree with most here. I think that rigs should be removable for several reasons. I fly Amarr ships. It is absolutely essential for me to have 3 ccc rigs on my ship if i want to fire my guns and have an armor repper fitted. I am not rich. Right now I have 20 mil in my account. Please keep in mind that some people are not rich and to imply that "60 mil for 3 rigs" is cheap and inconsequential is somewhat insulting.
I recently bought an abaddon and scraped together enough to get 3 rigs for it and am now trying to sell my armageddon with 3 ccc rigs by contract becuase i cant afford to just destroy 60 mil on a whim. I am only charging 80-100 mil which is cheap and in four days I have had no bids.
Now i cant afford to just destroy the rigs and sell the ship for half price so where does that leave me? I have to have rigs if i want to use the ship yet they are so expensive (for me). Please make rigs removable so that we can fit them on different ships. To not do so is just another pander to all the filthy rich people out there that dont need any help and a slap in the face of all the poorer people who do. |
Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.12 17:12:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 12/02/2008 17:13:19
Originally by: Yazmina I disagree with most here. I think that rigs should be removable for several reasons. I fly Amarr ships. It is absolutely essential for me to have 3 ccc rigs on my ship if i want to fire my guns and have an armor repper fitted.
First of all, all battleships in general (not just Amarr) have a problem with cap when turning on all their guns and a repairer at the same time. Amarr just have it a little bit worse off than the rest. Secondly, improve your capacitor skills and/or whine for CCP to give Amarr better capacitors.
Remember that before a little more than a year ago there were no rigs in the game, and rigs were never intended to be something that you put on every ship. If you absolutely have to have rigs on a ship just for it to work properly then the problem is with your skills, with the ship, or with both - not with rigs.
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Yazmina
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Posted - 2008.02.12 17:46:00 -
[28]
I can see where you are coming from. I do however have 3 or 4 in all relevant skills. Oh and btw telling people to just train several million sp in skills to solve an immediate problem isnt helpful and is counterproductive.
I can agree with you that my ship does not help. The abaddon does not have a cap bonus to turrets which means that i use up to 50% more cap for guns than most other amarr ships.
This just highlights the amarr problem of guns using too much cap. I have 3 ccc rigs and 4 cap rechargers II. I am pretty much cap stable with 8 pulses and a large repper and hardeners. But having to use 7 modules to be cap stable is a bit rediculous
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LogixCraft
Gallente Insidious Existence
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Posted - 2008.02.13 00:59:00 -
[29]
Edited by: LogixCraft on 13/02/2008 01:02:37
Originally by: Yazmina I can see where you are coming from. I do however have 3 or 4 in all relevant skills. Oh and btw telling people to just train several million sp in skills to solve an immediate problem isnt helpful and is counterproductive.
I can agree with you that my ship does not help. The abaddon does not have a cap bonus to turrets which means that i use up to 50% more cap for guns than most other amarr ships.
This just highlights the amarr problem of guns using too much cap. I have 3 ccc rigs and 4 cap rechargers II. I am pretty much cap stable with 8 pulses and a large repper and hardeners. But having to use 7 modules to be cap stable is a bit rediculous
lvl 3 in any capacitor skill is not enough, lvl 4 is a minimum and training all cap skills to lvl 5 isn't that long of a wait.
Also think of rigs as duct tape and chewing gum. you can't just take that dried up gum and remove that wonderful duct tape off your ship and just simple stick in on your other ship hoping the gum will stick and the tape will hold. These are modifications to your ship, and typically you can't unmodify something without ruining the mod in the first place.
----------------------------- [ 2007.12.05 20:30:54 ] (combat) CCP's premium content strikes you perfectly wrecking for your Boot.ini |
Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:53:00 -
[30]
Interesting idea, you can recover rigs at the expense of destroying the ship..... no insurance obviously... ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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