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Joana Darklight
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Posted - 2007.12.08 06:56:00 -
[1]
I can fly a carrier soon, but theres no point and im ****ed off, why shouldnt I be aloud to move it around by myself, why are solo players and players with 1 account lower class citizens unable to do or use what they want for a sandbox game there is alot of usless limitations.
And a whole lot of other **** I wont get into in this post.
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SnakeByte86
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Posted - 2007.12.08 06:57:00 -
[2]
Yeah, the sandbox is slowly getting new rules. "noone with less then 85 friends allowed in"
Neat.
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Joana Darklight
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Posted - 2007.12.08 06:58:00 -
[3]
Originally by: SnakeByte86 Yeah, the sandbox is slowly getting new rules. "noone with less then 85 friends allowed in"
Neat.
I like your style sir but keep agreeing with me and your gonan start looking like my alt lol or vice versa.
******* alts! a whole other stupid issue with this game.
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SnakeByte86
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Posted - 2007.12.08 06:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Joana Darklight
Originally by: SnakeByte86 Yeah, the sandbox is slowly getting new rules. "noone with less then 85 friends allowed in"
Neat.
I like your style sir but keep agreeing with me and your gonan start looking like my alt lol or vice versa.
******* alts! a whole other stupid issue with this game.
Haha, i've been accused of being an alt soo many times today. Makes me laugh ;)
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Mr Siman
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:02:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Mr Siman on 08/12/2007 07:06:18 Are you complaining because you need a cyno alt to move around? Or are you comlaining that you need a fleet's worth of friends to defend your carrier because it isn't a one-man pwnmobile and a slow juicy target?
Either way, lol.
Edit: Are you also going to complain that logistics ships are useless? Hint: Look at the bonuses on a carrier.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:03:00 -
[6]
Flying a carrier solo is like flying a logistics ships solo.
Why? ________ "It's a good day to die!"
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Joana Darklight I can fly a carrier soon, but theres no point and im ****ed off, why shouldnt I be aloud to move it around by myself, why are solo players and players with 1 account lower class citizens unable to do or use what they want for a sandbox game there is alot of usless limitations.
And a whole lot of other **** I wont get into in this post.
Well, that's a bit of a tough question to answer.
Compared to most other MMOs, EVE is harder on single players simply because so much requires a concerted group effort to accomplish, A.K.A. holding space, building capital ships easily, constructing Outposts and Titant, etc. It's not that EVE is intentionally hard on solo players, but it does encourage group-based activity.
Why? It has to. Think of what EVE would be like if a single player could realistically build and properly use a titan, or if dreadnoughts could easily take out anything smaller than them. EVE's ships do not progress from least awesome to most awesome; the more impressive a ship is, the greater it's drawbacks. For example:
Frigates: Low damage and HP, not very powerful, but fast Battleship: High HP, High Damage, but it has a hard time hitting anything smaller than it unless it's webbed Capital Ships: Very high damage potential but cannot be effectively used without some support (similar to the battleship - frigate relationship) Titans: Incredibly valuable logistics tools with impressive combat potential, but can be easily destroyed without a large supporting fleet and fuel to run it.
Hope this is insightful. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Joana Darklight
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mr Siman Are you complaining because you need a cyno alt to move around? Or are you comlaining that you need a fleet's worth of friends to defend your carrier because it isn't a one-man pwnmobile and a slow juicy target?
Either way, lol.
I dont have one yet was going to finish training them but im more concered about cyno alts, I dont have another account and I play solo so by doing so im unable to use stuff that I should be able to, I have the skills but no way to use it its rediculous.
WHat am I suposed to ask a corp mate to put himself at risk and waste his time just so i can move a ship a couple jumps? its lame.
Why cant cyno drives just be done by the ship user? would it really damage eve ?
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Joana Darklight I can fly a carrier soon, but theres no point and im ****ed off, why shouldnt I be aloud to move it around by myself, why are solo players and players with 1 account lower class citizens unable to do or use what they want for a sandbox game there is alot of usless limitations.
And a whole lot of other **** I wont get into in this post.
I think your playing the wrong game mate.. Try this one instead..
Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:06:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 08/12/2007 07:08:12 Argh wrong one of your threads -.-
Welcome to EvE |
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Fader Bane
Black Knight Buccaneers Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Joana Darklight
Originally by: Mr Siman Are you complaining because you need a cyno alt to move around? Or are you comlaining that you need a fleet's worth of friends to defend your carrier because it isn't a one-man pwnmobile and a slow juicy target?
Either way, lol.
I dont have one yet was going to finish training them but im more concered about cyno alts, I dont have another account and I play solo so by doing so im unable to use stuff that I should be able to, I have the skills but no way to use it its rediculous.
WHat am I suposed to ask a corp mate to put himself at risk and waste his time just so i can move a ship a couple jumps? its lame.
Why cant cyno drives just be done by the ship user? would it really damage eve ?
First ridiculus*
Second: At first glance I can see your concern and I'm many share the sentiment that one needs alts in this game but in this context I think your reasoning is flawed. Basically I think you really need to research what a "carrier" is. ________________________________________
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SnakeByte86
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Joana Darklight I can fly a carrier soon, but theres no point and im ****ed off, why shouldnt I be aloud to move it around by myself, why are solo players and players with 1 account lower class citizens unable to do or use what they want for a sandbox game there is alot of usless limitations.
And a whole lot of other **** I wont get into in this post.
Well, that's a bit of a tough question to answer.
Compared to most other MMOs, EVE is harder on single players simply because so much requires a concerted group effort to accomplish, A.K.A. holding space, building capital ships easily, constructing Outposts and Titant, etc. It's not that EVE is intentionally hard on solo players, but it does encourage group-based activity.
Why? It has to. Think of what EVE would be like if a single player could realistically build and properly use a titan, or if dreadnoughts could easily take out anything smaller than them. EVE's ships do not progress from least awesome to most awesome; the more impressive a ship is, the greater it's drawbacks. For example:
Frigates: Low damage and HP, not very powerful, but fast Battleship: High HP, High Damage, but it has a hard time hitting anything smaller than it unless it's webbed Capital Ships: Very high damage potential but cannot be effectively used without some support (similar to the battleship - frigate relationship) Titans: Incredibly valuable logistics tools with impressive combat potential, but can be easily destroyed without a large supporting fleet and fuel to run it.
Hope this is insightful.
Its not so much that people want to able to do everything solo, but small corps are having a hard time as well. It never used to be like this, carriers were billed as a huge benefit to 0.0 corps, especially small ones, look up the original dev blogs if you don't believe me. Now they are making them useless again. These arnt even half the nerfs they plan. Even though 37 pages worth of people telling them no to nerf carriers.
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Illyrinia
Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:13:00 -
[13]
capital ships are set up the way they are so it takes large amounts of effort to move it, fuel it, upkeep on it. if one mothership could jump systems all on its own, low sec wouldnt be tolerable for the small guys who fly ships they are properly skilled at flying... if your so unhappy with capitals, talk to me and ill prolly trade you my t2 cruiser/frig pilot for your pilot.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=643000 |
SnakeByte86
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Illyrinia capital ships are set up the way they are so it takes large amounts of effort to move it, fuel it, upkeep on it. if one mothership could jump systems all on its own, low sec wouldnt be tolerable for the small guys who fly ships they are properly skilled at flying... if your so unhappy with capitals, talk to me and ill prolly trade you my t2 cruiser/frig pilot for your pilot.
See this is the thing, the devs dont seem to understand this ethier. Normal carrier != mothership.
They cost 20-25times more, they have far more capabilities.
By all means low sec motherships are already a problem, fix it. But dont nerf all carriers.
Small corps are going to really struggle.
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McScruff
Grudjorn Logistics
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Posted - 2007.12.08 07:20:00 -
[15]
I'm sorry, are you complaining because not every single ship in the game can be used solo or because you were bloody stupid enough to train for a ship that can't? ______________________________________
Warning: May contain traces of sarcasm |
Moraguth
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:03:00 -
[16]
i'm only going to jump on to a small part of this complaint. I would LOVE to be able to move my carrier solo. maybe make it half as effective (range) and cost twice as much fuel. something.... anything. It's still a logistics ship, that can't do much on it's own. I would have to be effin ******** to try to go be a solo-pwnmobile with it. I just would like to be able to move it on my own sometimes.
Yes, I know it is a "gang", "corporation", "alliance", or whatever tool. But moving it isn't really "using it" Especially if they nerf the cargo hauling ability of it (which that kinda would if you made it 4 times as expensive to move stuff solo with it).
Anyway, please don't flame. I'm not mad about the current mechanics, i just wish I had more options than trying to get some friends to waste their time to help me move all over to do stuff with my carrier. good game
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Freya Runestone
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:18:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Freya Runestone on 08/12/2007 08:24:50 I don't really get why you're complaining.
the way i read it, what you want is you < group to become you = group
Quote: why are solo players and players with 1 account lower class citizens unable to do or use what they want for a sandbox game there is alot of usless limitations.
that is because what they "want" to do is unrealistic, you can fly a carrier, sure, but you're going to be worthless without support, and that's the way it should be.
Groups will always outperform individuals, and they always should.
Originally by: Joana Darklight
I dont have one yet was going to finish training them but im more concered about cyno alts, I dont have another account and I play solo so by doing so im unable to use stuff that I should be able to, I have the skills but no way to use it its rediculous.
WHat am I suposed to ask a corp mate to put himself at risk and waste his time just so i can move a ship a couple jumps? its lame.
Why cant cyno drives just be done by the ship user? would it really damage eve ?
This is exactly what i'm talking about. im unable to use stuff that I should be able to why 'should' you be able to use it? who ever said that?
WHat am I suposed to ask a corp mate to put himself at risk and waste his time just so i can move a ship a couple jumps? its lame. Yes, yes you are supposed to ask a corp mate to do it for you. that is what it requires to move the ship a couple of jumps, you know that before you get into one, and i'll tell you what is actually lame, getting a ship, knowing fully the drawback of it, and then complaining about those same drawbacks
Why cant cyno drives just be done by the ship user? would it really damage eve ? think about that for a second, cause you obviously didn't when you asked the question if the ship could do that it would have to be remotely, which means you could jump to a hostile system without having to send in a recon ship to do it. thus there's no way to defend your frontlines anymore
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:23:00 -
[18]
Because EVE is not a single-player game?
Don't get me wrong, there is still content there for those with a self-obsession. Missions, trading, solo pirating etc. - but as most people discover, things are more efficient & fun in groups.
- Recruitment open again-
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:30:00 -
[19]
It's really really easy to join a group in Eve and be a team player. The only people who play solo either 1) don't have time (and I can sympathize with you folks) or 2) refuse to do anything but play solo (you chose to be a second class citizen). It's like going to a country, asking for citizenship, refusing to pay your taxes, and then complaining how badly you're being treated. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
ChimeraRouge
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:42:00 -
[20]
if you don't join a corp in eve you might as well just self-destruct right now
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Grapez
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: cal nereus It's really really easy to join a group in Eve and be a team player. The only people who play solo either 1) don't have time (and I can sympathize with you folks) or 2) refuse to do anything but play solo (you chose to be a second class citizen). It's like going to a country, asking for citizenship, refusing to pay your taxes, and then complaining how badly you're being treated.
Eve is a lot like real life because...
Frankly, when someone on the forums tells an OP to "get a scout" or "have someone cyno for you" s/he usually means "get an alt." While there are certainly people out there that are willing to drop everything and spend an hour helping you cyno, they are few and far between. I would wager that the huge majority of cap pilots also have a dedicated cyno alt on a separate account, which is kind of odd for a multi-player game.
So, for the OP, if you want to keep playing like you are doing now, you're going to need a 2nd account. The alternatives are to 1.) join a corp and hope that it's filled with people that like helping with logistics or 2.) don't train for/buy cap ships.
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Kobushi
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:56:00 -
[22]
Wing commander, the perfect game for the OP, all pew pew, zero player interaction but still flying pixel spaceship. As an added bonus the thing is not getting patched anymore so no more nerfs.
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Joana Darklight
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Grapez
Originally by: cal nereus It's really really easy to join a group in Eve and be a team player. The only people who play solo either 1) don't have time (and I can sympathize with you folks) or 2) refuse to do anything but play solo (you chose to be a second class citizen). It's like going to a country, asking for citizenship, refusing to pay your taxes, and then complaining how badly you're being treated.
Eve is a lot like real life because...
Frankly, when someone on the forums tells an OP to "get a scout" or "have someone cyno for you" s/he usually means "get an alt." While there are certainly people out there that are willing to drop everything and spend an hour helping you cyno, they are few and far between. I would wager that the huge majority of cap pilots also have a dedicated cyno alt on a separate account, which is kind of odd for a multi-player game.
So, for the OP, if you want to keep playing like you are doing now, you're going to need a 2nd account. The alternatives are to 1.) join a corp and hope that it's filled with people that like helping with logistics or 2.) don't train for/buy cap ships.
DOes anyone else not find it rediculous how CCP has managed to FORCE players into have more than one account just to be able to play the game without a serious handicap ? ANyone ?, its rediculous
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SnakeByte86
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Joana Darklight
Originally by: Grapez
Originally by: cal nereus It's really really easy to join a group in Eve and be a team player. The only people who play solo either 1) don't have time (and I can sympathize with you folks) or 2) refuse to do anything but play solo (you chose to be a second class citizen). It's like going to a country, asking for citizenship, refusing to pay your taxes, and then complaining how badly you're being treated.
Eve is a lot like real life because...
Frankly, when someone on the forums tells an OP to "get a scout" or "have someone cyno for you" s/he usually means "get an alt." While there are certainly people out there that are willing to drop everything and spend an hour helping you cyno, they are few and far between. I would wager that the huge majority of cap pilots also have a dedicated cyno alt on a separate account, which is kind of odd for a multi-player game.
So, for the OP, if you want to keep playing like you are doing now, you're going to need a 2nd account. The alternatives are to 1.) join a corp and hope that it's filled with people that like helping with logistics or 2.) don't train for/buy cap ships.
DOes anyone else not find it rediculous how CCP has managed to FORCE players into have more than one account just to be able to play the game without a serious handicap ? ANyone ?, its rediculous
Many people find it ridiculous, and i think more people have quit in the last year or so, then the numbers suggest. If it were proveable i'd bet my left nut that the amount of unique players is down 10% or more from last year.
That most of the "new accounts" are alts.
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Mikel Crenshaw
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:33:00 -
[25]
Well, here's the thing about solo vs. group content. When we look at the neat new ships that have come out (T2 Battleships for instance) the new mission content and mini-professions that is a lot of content that can be accessed by one person and overall there is a lot of meat to the solo game in Eve. That said a group is simply a gathering of individuals who have access to all the same content as one person (they can fly those nifty ships, group on missions, and mine in groups). In addition to that players that work together also have some advanced options such as POS, Capital Ships and more difficult deadspace zones. In the end it is hard to make solo-only content but it is really easy to make content accessible to groups.
People simply have to remember that this isn't WoW or another kind of amusement park game where equipment comes in tiers and one thing can be said to be better/worse than the other in every case. There is really no "end game" to Eve where we all get Epic equipment and ride around in the biggest ships available because bigger is better. If anything I'd say that the "end game" for exclusively solo players would be BS class ships or advanced T2 stuff, not Capital Ships.
To use another WoW comparison (I know I really shouldn't) Capital Ships are the "Raid" content of Eve; they require a coordinated group of people with a well defined goal, at the same time there is not much of a reason for a solo only character to shoot for one. This is mainly because they are also specialized for group activities (POS assaults, fleet battles and corp warfare). A Capital Ship is not usually a very efficient way of ratting or missioning, for that there are T2 ships.
When people get into the game they often shoehorn it on to usual MMO paradigms of progression. Eve doesn't work that way, I could specialize for eons without ever going above a frigate class for instance and that could be my "end game". Carriers aren't really in the progression of solo players, they are in the progression of corps. So unless you really feel the need to buy another account for a multi-billion dollar ship that will rarely ever come in handy for anything you could do alone then I wouldn't recommend it.
Eve is a sandbox and some of the best stuff that ever came about in a sandbox was when all the kids banded together to make something as a group. If Eve encourages players to form groups with common goals then it has done its job.
That said I still do a lot of solo stuff myself and have a blast, just don't get hung up on the fact that you likely wont ever fly a capital ship (I, myself, have yet to actually see one in game... kind of adds to their allure). But hey I can still fly Command Ships, Battleships, Marauders and all the other myriad classes in the game. If you want a carrier style ship that will come in handy then train up Gallente skills and hop in a drone ship (or go Minny because the Typhoon is hawt ;)). ---------------------
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
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Lazarann
Ideal Machine
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:34:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lazarann on 08/12/2007 09:34:39 I'd just like to point out this is an MMO The second "M" is a little relevant...maybe that's part of the reason...
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Estephania
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:35:00 -
[27]
Eve is made the way that if you want to be somewhat free of endless grind for ISK, you MUST have another account. Don't tell me about helping corp-mates, it's not that. I'm talking about:
Cyno ALTS R&D ALTS Scout ALTS Trade ALTS Salvage ALTS
was a good business plan I guess...
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James Duar
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Grapez
Originally by: cal nereus It's really really easy to join a group in Eve and be a team player. The only people who play solo either 1) don't have time (and I can sympathize with you folks) or 2) refuse to do anything but play solo (you chose to be a second class citizen). It's like going to a country, asking for citizenship, refusing to pay your taxes, and then complaining how badly you're being treated.
Eve is a lot like real life because...
Frankly, when someone on the forums tells an OP to "get a scout" or "have someone cyno for you" s/he usually means "get an alt." While there are certainly people out there that are willing to drop everything and spend an hour helping you cyno, they are few and far between. I would wager that the huge majority of cap pilots also have a dedicated cyno alt on a separate account, which is kind of odd for a multi-player game.
So, for the OP, if you want to keep playing like you are doing now, you're going to need a 2nd account. The alternatives are to 1.) join a corp and hope that it's filled with people that like helping with logistics or 2.) don't train for/buy cap ships.
Bingo. "Use a scout" or "ask for help" means "get an alt". That's lame.
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SnakeByte86
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Estephania Eve is made the way that if you want to be somewhat free of endless grind for ISK, you MUST have another account. Don't tell me about helping corp-mates, it's not that. I'm talking about:
Cyno ALTS R&D ALTS Scout ALTS Trade ALTS Salvage ALTS
was a good business plan I guess...
Hell you forgot refining/production alts :P
Now i like team work, and i am all for it, i dont use an alt to move my carrier. Its not so much just solo people who are being ruined, its all small groups, small corps.
Right now, its almost impossible to make a living in 0.0, with out a large alliance or corp, and its only getting harded. We are barely hanging on.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lazarann Edited by: Lazarann on 08/12/2007 09:34:39 I'd just like to point out this is an MMO The second "M" is a little relevant...maybe that's part of the reason...
Not that I disagree that EVE is centered around group play:
MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER DOES NOT MEAN FORCED GROUPING. It merely describes the game world, in that it is a persistent server with more than a few dozen people simultaneously playing. They don't have to be grouped. They don't have to be interacting. They merely have to be present, and capable of interacting with one another. Period.
Get a new damn strawman, because I'm tired of the "Second M" fallacy.
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