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Kill Mail
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.11.12 07:09:00 -
[1]
This would be an interesting change -
For all cloaks below covert, cloaks no-longer stop you from appearing on the overview. Instead, you cannot be targeted or scanned!
Basically, it means cloaks are still useful as long as people use safespots, and it also means that scounts who use cloaks still have a very good chance of getting away.
It also solves the problem of "AFK" cloakers who sit in your system. They can be in system, but not have to be at the keyboard order to be look at gates / stations with safety.
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sableye
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.12 07:20:00 -
[2]
but then it would'nt be a cloack
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.12 07:21:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kill Mail This would be an interesting change -
For all cloaks below covert, cloaks no-longer stop you from appearing on the overview. Instead, you cannot be targeted or scanned!
Translation: Let's kill off the Stealth Bombers as a viable ship class.
Quote: It also solves the problem of "AFK" cloakers who sit in your system. They can be in system, but not have to be at the keyboard order to be look at gates / stations with safety.
If they're not at the keyboard, they're not looking at gates and stations regardless of where their ship is.
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Arlenna Molatov
Caldari The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2007.11.12 07:27:00 -
[4]
The only viable option is to be able to scan out any cloaked ship using any cloak below that of a covert ops cloak II.
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Kirex
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.12 07:35:00 -
[5]
So a cloak that doesn't cloak you?
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.11.12 07:52:00 -
[6]
So you want to make it useless......
No thanks
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
Scav Silver
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 08:27:00 -
[7]
Agreed.. Make Black Ops useless even before they come out.. á ----------------------------------------------------------- "Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=- "Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=- |
Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
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Posted - 2007.11.12 08:46:00 -
[8]
I pretty much liked the idea that was suggested on the forums to make non-COCD II reduce your signature to 10% when cloaked, so it's pretty hard to scan you down, but it would be doable.
Thats the only thing needed I think.
Stealthbombers would've some 4m Signature Radius only, and if they keep moving, you would'nt find them anyways, as when you arrive at the scanned position, you still don't know exactly where they are. Only AFK-cloakers would be effected, as they would be decloaked flying circles at the spot you've scanned out. .
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Polcor Rodal
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.12 08:53:00 -
[9]
God, i miss the times, when people were thinking BEFORE they were posting at the forums.
Every week somebody has a new idea/fix for the cloak "problem". I agree, that fitting a cloak in 0.0 to rat safely is a lame tactic, but on other ships, like haulers, or T1 frigs it can be either the poor man¦s blockade runner or poor mans cov ops.
Which is a viable tactic, IMHO. And ...flying stealth ships well, involves some player skills, creativity and brain. So guess whats the most dangerous weapon (hint: it¦s not the cloak).
So i would support the idea, to increase the penalty to your combat ability fitting cloaks on non-designated combatships (yes, gimp the fighting abiliy, and that only !)
And dont tell me, then people can avoid....then in fact you will complain not having enough targets - which is a complete different topic, and has its roots in other areas like flaws in the low sec concept, or maybe personal playstyle.
Polcor
If in danger, or in doubt, run in cricles, scream and shout |
SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.11.12 09:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Polcor Rodal God, i miss the times, when people were thinking BEFORE they were posting at the forums.
Every week somebody has a new idea/fix for the cloak "problem". I agree, that fitting a cloak in 0.0 to rat safely is a lame tactic, but on other ships, like haulers, or T1 frigs it can be either the poor man¦s blockade runner or poor mans cov ops.
Which is a viable tactic, IMHO. And ...flying stealth ships well, involves some player skills, creativity and brain. So guess whats the most dangerous weapon (hint: it¦s not the cloak).
So i would support the idea, to increase the penalty to your combat ability fitting cloaks on non-designated combatships (yes, gimp the fighting abiliy, and that only !)
And dont tell me, then people can avoid....then in fact you will complain not having enough targets - which is a complete different topic, and has its roots in other areas like flaws in the low sec concept, or maybe personal playstyle.
Polcor
Yeah. They should gimp your locking speed or something.
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Mymain DreadMoros
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Posted - 2007.11.12 09:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kill Mail This would be an interesting change -
For all cloaks below covert, cloaks no-longer stop you from appearing on the overview. Instead, you cannot be targeted or scanned!
Basically, it means cloaks are still useful as long as people use safespots, and it also means that scounts who use cloaks still have a very good chance of getting away.
It also solves the problem of "AFK" cloakers who sit in your system. They can be in system, but not have to be at the keyboard order to be look at gates / stations with safety.
How about shutup?
Cloaking is fine at the moment and doesnt need nerfing.
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PiKacho
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Posted - 2007.11.12 11:35:00 -
[12]
idiot
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.12 11:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kill Mail
It also solves the problem of "AFK" cloakers who sit in your system.
What "problem"? If they are afk they don't matter in least; if they try to attack you, you kill them.
If an afk cloaker sitting in your system makes you too terrified to undock, you have problems that no game mechanic tweak will solve.
P.S. Your idea is... "pretty bad", to be charitable.
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duffmantt
Dragonian Freelancers KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 11:42:00 -
[14]
Quote: idiot
And the award for the most constructive reply of the week goes to....
What we do in Eve, Echoes in eternity... |
MNU
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Posted - 2007.11.12 12:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros
How about shutup?
Cloaking is fine at the moment and doesnt need nerfing.
Thanks for asking, but it wasnÆt really necessary. You donÆt need to ask for permission to shut up. You can save you time from posting such questions and just do it, belive me - nobody here able to stop you.
As it was previously mentioned, at the moment the current ways how cloaking is working causing some kind of lame tactic in 0.0 and lowsecs. IÆm not any kind of expert about 0.0 space due to luck of experience, but can say about low-sec. What you are going to do if you will see the same rat on covert sitting 23/7 on safespots in a system where you corp or even alliance is based, and constantly doing nothing and just spying. Considering that this pilot is alt of somebody (while the main keep enjoing from the game), he is not stupid, know what he is doing and not going to show himself or attend any fight - any tactic here instead of just watching such pilot in the local overview every single day? Now, take into account that this pilot is belong or helping to another corp who is at war with you or you enemy and you know about it.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.11.12 12:18:00 -
[16]
Now personally i don't see the need to nerf cloaking at all, just cuz a buncha whiners didn't manage to kill a guy that was afk cloaked in the system doesn't mean that it should get the nerfbat.
But, if u do insist on making cloaking vulnerable in some way or another, then perhaps something like this.
we have 3 types of cloak, first of i think the CO cloak should be left alone, once activated the ship cannot be scanned down or tracked in any way.
this leaves the 2 others, the ones used most for afk cloakers, these ones should only be found by some specialized mod on a specialized ship (CO frig comes to mind), should take a long time to scan them down, together with a hi skill package to even be able to use the mods, probes, whatever ur gonna use
So it's like this:
- proto cloak, specialized ship, specialized mod, big skill prereq, takes a long time to find
- advanced cloak, specialized ship, specialized mod (mebbe even a T2 mod to find it), (even) big(ger) skill prereq, takes even longer to find
- CO cloak, NO!! Nothing in the universe will be able to find these unless u physically bump into it. PERIOD!!! CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2007.11.12 12:19:00 -
[17]
Edited by: I SoStoned on 12/11/2007 12:19:11 Cloak Fix:
Non-Cov ops (Non-'stealth' ships) While cloaked: Signature radius reduced to 10%. 'Exploration' probes cannot be used for scanning ships below 1au. Shield & Cap regeneration cease. System scanner does not function.
On 'stealth' ships (covert ships that cannot use Cov-Ops cloak) - 0% sig, shield & cap regen reduced 50%, System scanner functions properly.
On Covert-ops - No change.
For all (?) What function can be used to defeat AFK cloakers that cannot be macro'd around?
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Military Industrial Research
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Posted - 2007.11.12 12:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: MNU
Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros
How about shutup?
Cloaking is fine at the moment and doesnt need nerfing.
Thanks for asking, but it wasnÆt really necessary. You donÆt need to ask for permission to shut up. You can save you time from posting such questions and just do it, belive me - nobody here able to stop you.
As it was previously mentioned, at the moment the current ways how cloaking is working causing some kind of lame tactic in 0.0 and lowsecs. IÆm not any kind of expert about 0.0 space due to luck of experience, but can say about low-sec. What you are going to do if you will see the same rat on covert sitting 23/7 on safespots in a system where you corp or even alliance is based, and constantly doing nothing and just spying. Considering that this pilot is alt of somebody (while the main keep enjoing from the game), he is not stupid, know what he is doing and not going to show himself or attend any fight - any tactic here instead of just watching such pilot in the local overview every single day? Now, take into account that this pilot is belong or helping to another corp who is at war with you or you enemy and you know about it.
Sounds to me like a covert ops ship being used the exact way they're meant to be used. If any change is really needed it should be to make it so you can't see him in local.
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Victor Hardenberg
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Posted - 2007.11.12 12:22:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Victor Hardenberg on 12/11/2007 12:25:26
Originally by: MNU
Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros
What you are going to do if you will see the same rat on covert sitting 23/7 on safespots in a system where you corp or even alliance is based, and constantly doing nothing and just spying.
Yes, but thats business you know, intel business. Of course this guy is sitting in local, constantly spying. i did this myself for about 6 hours this WE. It was a very valuable service for my customer.
Originally by: MNU
Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros
Considering that this pilot is alt of somebody (while the main keep enjoing from the game), he is not stupid, know what he is doing and not going to show himself or attend any fight...
Of course not, he is a spy/scout/reon, its his job to hide and gather intel, he is NOT there for fighting. This will be left to others.
Originally by: MNU
Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros
...any tactic here instead of just watching such pilot in the local overview every single day?
You see, its local that is broken, not cloaking. . No, serious, if local wont be as it is today, i wont be that easy to gather information about the people in the system. But you maybe wont know that there is a spy either. The door swing in both directions.
Originally by: MNU
Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros
Now, take into account that this pilot is belong or helping to another corp who is at war with you or you enemy and you know about it.
Yeah, baby, war is a dirty busines, we know, and feel so sorry about it.
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Victor Ivanov
Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.12 12:29:00 -
[20]
There is only ONE viable Cloak fix.
Make it so that there is a timer on how long you've been cloaked. Every 5-10 minutes you need to manually reactivate your cloak.
Let's be honest, AFK cloaking is the only issue anyone has with cloaks. Why nerf anything but the AFK cloaking then? ----------------------
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try
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Posted - 2007.11.12 12:36:00 -
[21]
AFK cloak fix: Increase local to cover an entire constallation, perhaps even a region?
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adriaans
Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs
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Posted - 2007.11.12 12:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Victor Ivanov There is only ONE viable Cloak fix.
Make it so that there is a timer on how long you've been cloaked. Every 5-10 minutes you need to manually reactivate your cloak.
Let's be honest, AFK cloaking is the only issue anyone has with cloaks. Why nerf anything but the AFK cloaking then?
this is one of the really few suggestions i've seen i would agree with.
possible give them a set time they will make you cloaked, then you have to manually recloak. --sig--
Knowledge is power! |
DethApostle
Amarr Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: adriaans
Originally by: Victor Ivanov There is only ONE viable Cloak fix.
Make it so that there is a timer on how long you've been cloaked. Every 5-10 minutes you need to manually reactivate your cloak.
Let's be honest, AFK cloaking is the only issue anyone has with cloaks. Why nerf anything but the AFK cloaking then?
this is one of the really few suggestions i've seen i would agree with.
possible give them a set time they will make you cloaked, then you have to manually recloak.
Except that in laggy systems that would suck. Example: Your deep in 0.0 in your covops frig spying on the enemy putting together their fleet for an op... local increases in number, lag strikes just as your cloak needed to be manually reactivated, you decloak, you die. Not good.
I like the 10% sig radius thing. I have no issue with non-covops ships fitting cloaks, or sitting in systems afk, but i believe there should be a slim chance that you can find them. However ships designed for cloaking and sneaky stuff should not be scanable ever. Kinda smacks of bad design if they can doesn't it? Insert ironic sig here |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Military Industrial Research
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:17:00 -
[24]
Pretty much any and all problems (real or imagined) that people associate with cloaking are really problems with local and not with cloaks.
Ratting Ravens, afk cloakers, whatever... It all goes away if you can't use local as a recon tool.
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MNU
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:22:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Victor Ivanov There is only ONE viable Cloak fix.
Make it so that there is a timer on how long you've been cloaked. Every 5-10 minutes you need to manually reactivate your cloak.
Let's be honest, AFK cloaking is the only issue anyone has with cloaks. Why nerf anything but the AFK cloaking then?
That what the most peoples usually asking over and over. I also was spying using covert and understand that I can put my alt in covert sitting in the enemy system for forever and using him only when I really need to spy while my main will run missions for ISKs . While the rest of the system will have to watch their backs 23/7 because they have no way to know if IÆm AFK or not at the moment. IMHO this is not something reasonable for the gameplay expirience.
Now, my half-AFK covert in you system and yours in my. What we have won beside of making each other at the same boat? The timer or something can fix it, but such timer needs to be short enough to make peoples really working do to their spy/scout job. 5-10 minutes is may be reasonable, but I'm not sure it will work 100%. Than you will see a lot of whiners complaining about their hunted coverts while they were in a restroom or something
But what else I would like to see is any small chance to hunt down such covert. I donÆt know how, maybe tons of ISKs spent for one time operation and special equipment, blob of special ships or whatever else. Lets the chance of success is still small, but at list something. So skilled pilots will be proud doing their real job and avoiding being spotted (changing safe spots, moving, tricking etc.), instead of just clicking on the magic covert cloak button and filing 100% safe . At list it will be some interesting action instead of just watching.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Military Industrial Research
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: MNU While the rest of the system will have to watch their backs 23/7 because they have no way to know if IÆm AFK or not at the moment. IMHO this is not something reasonable for the gameplay expirience.
So, make it so people don't show up in local unless they write something in it. Problem fixed.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild Pretty much any and all problems (real or imagined) that people associate with cloaking are really problems with local and not with cloaks.
Ratting Ravens, afk cloakers, whatever... It all goes away if you can't use local as a recon tool.
/thread.
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MNU
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
So, make it so people don't show up in local unless they write something in it. Problem fixed.
Problem fixed? OMG, why you do not test this fix itself out of high-sec and than let us know what were the results? Closing the eyes actually dose not make you invisible. ItÆs only working for small babies against bad creatures leaving under their beds.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.12 14:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild Pretty much any and all problems (real or imagined) that people associate with cloaking are really problems with local and not with cloaks.
Ratting Ravens, afk cloakers, whatever... It all goes away if you can't use local as a recon tool.
I'm glad at least somebody here understands the core of the problem. Most others are just trying to find fixes for the syptoms. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.12 14:12:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 12/11/2007 14:12:18
Originally by: MNU
Problem fixed? OMG, why you do not test this fix itself out of high-sec and than let us know what were the results? Closing the eyes actually dose not make you invisible. ItÆs only working for small babies against bad creatures leaving under their beds.
In fact, it does. Because AFK cloakers now threaten by doing exactly *nothing*. The threat exists only in your mind, take away local, and the threat is removed, and no AFK cloaker will ever be able to scare you again. Space in general will get more scary though, since you no longer have a perfect intelligence tool. Nor will cloaking ratters ever be able to frustrate you again, since you will never see them in local. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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