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Dr Ming
Mindworks
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Posted - 2007.10.05 20:37:00 -
[1]
From the DEV posts, the only thing that is 100% known about the new ships is the shipyards building them.
Which lead me to an interesting realization. I'm already depressed about the Sin and Phobos, purely based on the fact that their going to be Roden products.
I don't think it is e-rage, or saying they should be this or that. It just seems sort of sad that when I find out a shipyard is making a ship, and I know no other facts about the ship, that I lose interest in the ship.
Watching the EVE-TV ship profile on the Eris this week didn't help my feelings of 'meh, whatever' towards the thought of two new Roden ships.
I'm wondering what other people think about Roden Shipyards?
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.05 20:39:00 -
[2]
Less pink, more red. And a bonus that makes sense considering rodens background as making missile primary ships.
( celestis with guns bonus ) ?!?
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Hyperforce99
Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.10.05 20:47:00 -
[3]
they arn't purely gallante but I've allways liked the enyo
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Zosana
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Posted - 2007.10.05 20:48:00 -
[4]
Nothing wrong with pink ships. Gives them more character.
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.05 20:49:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Zosana Nothing wrong with pink ships. Gives them more character.
And in the case of the Roden's heavy interdictor, gives your wife more character...
...in bed. ------------ Whiners - Unite! | Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist. |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.05 20:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dr Ming
It just seems sort of sad that when I find out a shipyard is making a ship, and I know no other facts about the ship, that I lose interest in the ship.
I think it's great that they've set the game up so that you can know ship personality based on the yard they come out of.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Elodie Belanger
Moonlight Sonata
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Posted - 2007.10.05 21:18:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Elodie Belanger on 05/10/2007 21:18:30
I agree with you 100%, but my grievance is mostly with the principle of putting missile bonuses on Gallente ships. The Enyo is a fantastic little ship - one of my favourates ever since it came out - because they threw away their stupid missile bonuses and made a frigate that could do one thing well instead of multiple things with mediocre success. If Roden shipyards stopped being a bizarro Caldari/Gallente mishmash and gained a proper focus to their ships, they would be more popular. As it is, the Ares is a complete joke and the Lachesis is sort of ok but I would tend to choose an Arazu myself.
Then again maybe I'm just biased because I swore never to train missile skills or non-Gallente skills and Roden makes that awkward for me, but I definately feel the same familiar flush of apathy about the new Roden ships that you do.
That said, Duvolle and Credron almost make up for it. The Keres looks as sexy as ever and I can't wait to see it - the Maulus has been begging for a sleek, stylish, stealthy T2 EW-focused version to sit alongside its beautiful brother the Helios ever since Cov Ops were introduced.
Yet all experience is an arch wherethro' Gleams that untravell'd world, whose margin fades For ever and for ever when I move. Tennyson, Ulysses |
Systheria
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Posted - 2007.10.05 21:24:00 -
[8]
What is the ship in Max Hardcases sig?
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.05 21:28:00 -
[9]
When you say Roden are you really just talking about that horrible pink color? Cause that color sucks monkey balls.
I guess you could also be talking about the general stats of Roden ships. I guess they generally are the ******** stepchildren of most ship classes. I do like the Enyo though. ----------------------------------------------------
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IKEELYOU
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Posted - 2007.10.05 21:28:00 -
[10]
Edited by: IKEELYOU on 05/10/2007 21:27:53
Originally by: Systheria What is the ship in Max Hardcases sig?
Cane
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Laura Steel
The Chaotic Order Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.05 21:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Systheria What is the ship in Max Hardcases sig?
Look under Minmatar battlecruisers.
Its the one that isnt fugly.
CCP better make a black version of those some day :P ----
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.05 21:46:00 -
[12]
Quote: Are people happy with Roden Shipyards?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: **** no.
T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers | Eve GUI Tweaks |
omiNATION
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.05 21:47:00 -
[13]
They should most definitely be CreoDron
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.05 21:58:00 -
[14]
The Ares needs some powergrid, and the Eris some cpu. Other than that, they are fine.
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Tanaka Atsuko
Gallente Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2007.10.05 22:34:00 -
[15]
NOOOOO pink is her favorite color you have to love the pink you all know who im talking about Drizzt Do'Urden will pwn joo |
Haerana
The Republican Guard The Sundering
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Posted - 2007.10.05 22:42:00 -
[16]
I would much much prefer a creodron Sin. simply because a great green and silver domi would look awesome... well as awesome as a fat whale of a domi can look.
although the enyo is a awesome frig. the lachesis and eris can both suck me. can fly all classes of gallente ship on this char now save for capitals and dictors, im even getting my missile skills up for stealth bombers and the like. Though i dont think im ever going to bother with a Gallente dictor unless the heavy dictors are so good, with bonuses i love so much, that it will make me able to say "Im Gallente and i fly a big pink ***** shaped ship!"
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.05 22:55:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 05/10/2007 22:59:22
"Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tend to favor missiles over drones and their ships generally possess stronger armor. Their electronics capacity, however, tends to be weaker than that of their competitorsÆ."
Roden ship design lacks focus. The description implies two strengths and two weaknesses:
Strong missile capabilities Strong Armor
Weak Drone capabilities Weak EW
Compare this to the ships themselves...
Enyo:
Missiles: No 3x Hybrid bonus, 4 turrets, 1 launcher
Weak Drones: Yes Only 5m3 of drones bay.
Strong Armor: Yes 70 more armor HP than the Iskur.
Weak EW: Yes 1 less mid-slot than the Ishkur
Eris:
Missiles: Yes (Split, but more focus on missiles than drones) 2x Hybrid bonus 1x Launcher bonus 5x Turret 4x Launcher
Weak Drones: Yes Only 5m3 of drones bay.
Strong Armor: No Average
Weak EW: Yes Only 2 mid-slots
Lachesis:
Missiles: Yes 1 Hybrid and 1 missile bonus with a 3/3 split
Weak Drones: No 40m3 of drones bay
Strong Armor: No Compartively low armor
Weak EW: No It's an EW cruiser
Roden haven't stuck to their design philosophy, unless you count ensuring their weaknesses are expressed in each ship they build with the exception of the Lachesis.
> Why are Roden, a shipyard supposedly weak in EW and drone ability, fielding an EW cruiser with a sizeable drone bay?
> Why are Roden, a shipyard supposedly weak in EW and drone ability "trying" to field an interdictor, when interdiction and tackling are essentially EW?
> Does this explain why the Eris is so utterly awful?
> Why are Roden not the manufacturers of the Gallente Stealth Bomber?
Methinks the answer for many Roden concerns is same, CCP start out with a coherent design for Roden ships and then through rigorous testing ensure all the Roden spirit is crushed from it before release.
Hows about:
More of a focus on missiles instead of sacrificing drone ability for a split weapon system.... hardly a bonus.
Stronger armor, we're sacrificing mid-slots for it, it should be a notable improvement.
[EDIT - Needed more bold ]
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Arushia
Nova Labs Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.10.05 23:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Hows about:
More of a focus on missiles instead of sacrificing drone ability for a split weapon system.... hardly a bonus.
Stronger armor, we're sacrificing mid-slots for it, it should be a notable improvement.
[EDIT - Needed more bold ]
I agree, Enyo is fine. Ares needs to lose its split hardpoints and bonuses. Can't comment on the Eris yet, haven't flown it.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.05 23:13:00 -
[19]
Yes, Roden are awesome.
No, I don't fly Gallente. Why do you ask? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
Ghost hunter
True Slave Foundations
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Posted - 2007.10.05 23:29:00 -
[20]
I love Roden Shipyards personally.
I don't think theres anything seriously wrong with them, they just require a bigger investment in skills to use that most people don't want to make.
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.05 23:29:00 -
[21]
The problem with Roden is according to the description they're the Napster of Khanid.
Seriously, make them all like the Enyo with optimal and tracking to hybrids and a nice ****load of guns/lows and I'll be happy. Also, more cap, to you know...run the guns.
Not every race NEEDS to have missile boats. Khanid are Dark Amarr, they're close range, no tracking, no cap weapons. The opposite of lasers. Roden should be the same to Gallente and go against the grain, focus on good medium range ships because Gallente has very few of them. All of their boats focus on close range.
Also, make the Eris Creodron already, for the love of God.
T2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers | Eve GUI Tweaks |
Sunabi
Caldari Defiance Corp Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.05 23:56:00 -
[22]
More pink!
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Meepie
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Posted - 2007.10.06 00:00:00 -
[23]
Roden sucks as the designer for the Sin.
But what do I care really, the game is just giving you more time sinks for slightly better ships that will serve a purpose you really don't need at a nice isk sink too.
Your choice to be baited and switched by it.
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Tara'Quoya Rax
Black-Sun
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Posted - 2007.10.06 00:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Max Hardcase Less pink, more red.
That's purely a matter of proper lighting
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.06 00:06:00 -
[25]
That'd be a no. Roden engineers need to be sent back to design school.
The problem here is that CCP can't figure out what characteristics a roden ship should actually have, other than they should suck (apparently). Which is suprising, since it shouldn't really be that hard. What traits gallente have:
1. Armor tanking 2. Fat structure 3. Use guns as a primary weapon and drones as a secondary weapon. Some designs have this reversed but in general this pattern is the most common.
When you look at roden ships, they seem to want to replace the drones with missile launchers instead. Ok, fine. However, they need to go one way, or the other way, not both at the same time - meaning CCP needs to decide if they should have guns as the primary weapon or missiles. Ships like the lachesis seem to be missile dominated while the enyo is gun dominated. This is a problem when there is no overriding design philosophy.
What should be done? IMO, Roden ships should be gun dominated with missiles as a secondary weapon. The one Roden ship which does not suck something totally awful is the Enyo. It actually works fairly well, because the bonuses are all to one type of weapon, even if it has the ability to use other types as well. This shows the way that you can have a roden ship that's not awful, but even then it still doesn't quite match up to what it should be. Roden ships should adopt the following characteristics:
1. Armor tanking 2. Big structure (2 above characteristics are gallente universal traits) 3. Gun dominated with missiles as a secondary weapon. Should have very little or no drone space. CPU and PG on these ships should be boosted to allow generous fittings in this area. In addition, gun bonuses should be chosen to favor rails (optimal range vs falloff bonuses).
Combination of rails + missiles gives a longer range strike capability that gallente lack greatly, and would be useful - though care would have to be taken to ensure that they don't outrange caldari gunboats (though when in range they should probabally hit harder). At any rate here's hoping that CCP decides to do something about this soon (try fixing the onieros model too while you're at it - missile racks on the model but no missile hardpoint, lol).
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IKEELYOU
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Posted - 2007.10.06 00:21:00 -
[26]
Edited by: IKEELYOU on 06/10/2007 00:22:48
Lachesis is a fine ship. So is Enyo. Eris and Ares could use a boost. The new ones? Wait and see, no use complaining now. The phobos won't have a split weapon system from the screens (a great thing).
I bet even if the ships are perfectly fine but not solopwnmobiles Gallente players will still ***** and moan. I found it funny when many asked for a fourth mid on the Deimos .
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.10.06 05:51:00 -
[27]
Roden sucks. I love my Enyo. It's an awesome ship. Unfortunately, this advantage is completely countered by the Ares, the game's best shuttle.
I haven't flow the others, but they don't exactly make me want to either.
The devs really need to make up their minds about Roden, and do a Roden MkII with them, a la Khanid.
Khanid used to be like Roden, but they've actually gotten some love recently. Roden needs the same. Not to make them uber, but to have them make more sense, w/o destroying the Enyo.
I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.10.06 06:13:00 -
[28]
The skin colored thorax model has GOT to be a CCP joke. Surely they're not that daft . __________________________________________________ FOLD. The Ultimate PVP. It really is Us vs. Them. clicky |
Grapez
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Posted - 2007.10.06 08:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kai Lae 3. Gun dominated with missiles as a secondary weapon. Should have very little or no drone space. CPU and PG on these ships should be boosted to allow generous fittings in this area. In addition, gun bonuses should be chosen to favor rails (optimal range vs falloff bonuses).
Gun/missile hardpoint splits are a little awkward, IMO. What about a missile/drone split? T2 vexor with HAMS and 75 mbit drone bandwidth, anyone @º¬íí-T«+ºH for all your political humor needs |
Fswd
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Posted - 2007.10.06 08:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mr Friendly The skin colored thorax model has GOT to be a CCP joke. Surely they're not that daft .
Yeah, who doesnt want a PINK shaft... --- Free exotic dancers for mods that mod my sig
*Snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature. -Yipsilanti ([email protected]) <-- freebie for you |
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