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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:10:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:12:06
Oh, ya, forgot to say one thing. This is on a Curse. The pilgrim pretty much can't do anything.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:15:00 -
[32]
There you have it then :P
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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:19:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:20:09
They should replace the nos amount bonus with a nos range bonus. Just like the other recon ships. It's that easy. But if anyone says that a curse is useless, I might blow a gascet.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:21:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:03:26
To all those people who don't know what their talking about, open EFT and put this setup into it.
2 x Capacitor Flux Coil 1 x Power Dianostic System
2 x Large Shield Extenders 3 x Sensor Dampner 1 x Medium Capacitor Battery II
6 x 'Ditch' Energy Neutralizers
2 x Capacitor Control Circuits
5 x acolyte II 5 x infaltrator II
It sucks 141 cap per sec from the target at a range of 37.5k It dampens most targets to under 20k. So, if you can't kill something with this then you shouldn't have posted on this thread.
Not only is this a Curse, not a Pilgrim, it's a terrible fit with no speed, little tank, only enough EWar to take out a single ship for a limited amount of time, using the worst drones in EVE, a terrible lowslot configuration (Including an empty low), and six COSMOS Neuts, the fit itself is terrible, and you wouldn't ever actually kill any competent pilot with this.
Yes, you can drain cap well... until you get nossed/neuted, and then your cap dies and you're stuck with no cap to run the EW or neuts. Your terrific drone selection means you do a stunning 170 DPS of pure EM (), while your tank is two LSE IIs with no resist mods, leaving you with two huge resist holes. If this were a Nano-setup that could be acceptable, but no. This is an EW setup, with three damps and no speed, and no ability to keep a hostile at range. Which means any ship with a MWD will simply hit a single cycle of the MWD, come close to you, and kill you while damped down.
Or, assuming this is a gang setup, a single AF comes and kills you while you're busy EWing his friends.
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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:28:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:28:41
Of course this is for a small gang but the point is you can take cap away from any target really fast.
The setup can be changed. Put a cap booster in, put some armor stuff on, the ship is very flexible. It is one deadly ship and thats the point to be made. That was just the first setup that came to mind. Oh, and where is your perfect setup for the perfect ship.
Look momy, I'm defending my own ideas.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:03:26
To all those people who don't know what their talking about, open EFT and put this setup into it.
2 x Capacitor Flux Coil 1 x Power Dianostic System
2 x Large Shield Extenders 3 x Sensor Dampner 1 x Medium Capacitor Battery II
6 x 'Ditch' Energy Neutralizers
2 x Capacitor Control Circuits
5 x acolyte II 5 x infaltrator II
It sucks 141 cap per sec from the target at a range of 37.5k It dampens most targets to under 20k. So, if you can't kill something with this then you shouldn't have posted on this thread.
Not only is this a Curse, not a Pilgrim, it's a terrible fit with no speed, little tank, only enough EWar to take out a single ship for a limited amount of time, using the worst drones in EVE, a terrible lowslot configuration (Including an empty low), and six COSMOS Neuts, the fit itself is terrible, and you wouldn't ever actually kill any competent pilot with this.
Yes, you can drain cap well... until you get nossed/neuted, and then your cap dies and you're stuck with no cap to run the EW or neuts. Your terrific drone selection means you do a stunning 170 DPS of pure EM (), while your tank is two LSE IIs with no resist mods, leaving you with two huge resist holes. If this were a Nano-setup that could be acceptable, but no. This is an EW setup, with three damps and no speed, and no ability to keep a hostile at range. Which means any ship with a MWD will simply hit a single cycle of the MWD, come close to you, and kill you while damped down.
Or, assuming this is a gang setup, a single AF comes and kills you while you're busy EWing his friends.
QFT
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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:30:00 -
[37]
Ya know, I don't even know what QFT means but something tells me I should be angry.
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Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:35:00 -
[38]
What are you talking about?! The Pilgrim may be worse than it used to be but combat in general is so much better. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
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Bodhisattvas
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:03:26
To all those people who don't know what their talking about, open EFT and put this setup into it.
2 x Capacitor Flux Coil 1 x Power Dianostic System
2 x Large Shield Extenders 3 x Sensor Dampner 1 x Medium Capacitor Battery II
6 x 'Ditch' Energy Neutralizers
2 x Capacitor Control Circuits
5 x acolyte II 5 x infaltrator II
It sucks 141 cap per sec from the target at a range of 37.5k It dampens most targets to under 20k. So, if you can't kill something with this then you shouldn't have posted on this thread.
Pilgrim ? and then your setup is gimped in comparision to what the original curse had..no mwd ?? You can suggest all the post nerf setups you want but the ship is not what it was.
You miss the point Amarr recons have been nerfed. One of their primary functions has been nerfed.
***dari ecm boats were nerfed but received a counter balance. Amarr recons get nerfed and receive a lil power grid ?
Even before the nerf they were not the solo pawn mobiles everyone thinks they were.
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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:40:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:42:09 Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:41:16
Originally by: Bodhisattvas
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:03:26
To all those people who don't know what their talking about, open EFT and put this setup into it.
2 x Capacitor Flux Coil 1 x Power Dianostic System
2 x Large Shield Extenders 3 x Sensor Dampner 1 x Medium Capacitor Battery II
6 x 'Ditch' Energy Neutralizers
2 x Capacitor Control Circuits
5 x acolyte II 5 x infaltrator II
It sucks 141 cap per sec from the target at a range of 37.5k It dampens most targets to under 20k. So, if you can't kill something with this then you shouldn't have posted on this thread.
Pilgrim ? and then your setup is gimped in comparision to what the original curse had..no mwd ?? You can suggest all the post nerf setups you want but the ship is not what it was.
You miss the point Amarr recons have been nerfed. One of their primary functions has been nerfed.
***dari ecm boats were nerfed but received a counter balance. Amarr recons get nerfed and receive a lil power grid ?
Even before the nerf they were not the solo pawn mobiles everyone thinks they were.
Whine Whine all you want. You just can't handle it but I can. So next time I see you when I'm in my curse, we'll see how this setup works out.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:49:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:42:09 Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:41:16
Originally by: Bodhisattvas
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:03:26
To all those people who don't know what their talking about, open EFT and put this setup into it.
2 x Capacitor Flux Coil 1 x Power Dianostic System
2 x Large Shield Extenders 3 x Sensor Dampner 1 x Medium Capacitor Battery II
6 x 'Ditch' Energy Neutralizers
2 x Capacitor Control Circuits
5 x acolyte II 5 x infaltrator II
It sucks 141 cap per sec from the target at a range of 37.5k It dampens most targets to under 20k. So, if you can't kill something with this then you shouldn't have posted on this thread.
Pilgrim ? and then your setup is gimped in comparision to what the original curse had..no mwd ?? You can suggest all the post nerf setups you want but the ship is not what it was.
You miss the point Amarr recons have been nerfed. One of their primary functions has been nerfed.
***dari ecm boats were nerfed but received a counter balance. Amarr recons get nerfed and receive a lil power grid ?
Even before the nerf they were not the solo pawn mobiles everyone thinks they were.
Whine Whine all you want. You just can't handle it but I can. So next time I see you when I'm in my curse, we'll see how this setup works out.
Uh... sure. So, I was wondering, where do you hang out? I was wanting some easy COSMOS loot.
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Bodhisattvas
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:42:09 Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:41:16
Originally by: Bodhisattvas
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 17:03:26
To all those people who don't know what their talking about, open EFT and put this setup into it.
2 x Capacitor Flux Coil 1 x Power Dianostic System
2 x Large Shield Extenders 3 x Sensor Dampner 1 x Medium Capacitor Battery II
6 x 'Ditch' Energy Neutralizers
2 x Capacitor Control Circuits
5 x acolyte II 5 x infaltrator II
It sucks 141 cap per sec from the target at a range of 37.5k It dampens most targets to under 20k. So, if you can't kill something with this then you shouldn't have posted on this thread.
Pilgrim ? and then your setup is gimped in comparision to what the original curse had..no mwd ?? You can suggest all the post nerf setups you want but the ship is not what it was.
You miss the point Amarr recons have been nerfed. One of their primary functions has been nerfed.
***dari ecm boats were nerfed but received a counter balance. Amarr recons get nerfed and receive a lil power grid ?
Even before the nerf they were not the solo pawn mobiles everyone thinks they were.
Whine Whine all you want. You just can't handle it but I can. So next time I see you when I'm in my curse, we'll see how this setup works out.
No whine intended little man, merely pointing out facts.
If you can't handle people pointing out your failings then sucks to be you.
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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2007.10.03 17:52:00 -
[43]
Come by Jita any time.
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Bodhisattvas
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.10.03 18:07:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Come by Jita any time.
I rest my case M'lud.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2007.10.03 18:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Bodhisattvas
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Come by Jita any time.
I rest my case M'lud.
This made me lol so much. And, even more unusually, it's actually an accurate putdown, on the eve-o forums. (!)
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.10.03 18:58:00 -
[46]
nonetheless the curse is still a viable ship and while the nosnerf has primarily nerfed droneboats it has given a boost to every other setup there is. and about a ship is a close range ship and nonesense like that, mebbe you should try to fly it differently if it doesn't work anymore and stop whining about ppl that couldn't adapt to the overuse of an overpowered module (only nos counter was a nos) while being unable to even try to adapt to the new situation yourselves.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2007.10.03 18:59:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Shiken Kan nonetheless the curse is still a viable ship and while the nosnerf has primarily nerfed droneboats it has given a boost to every other setup there is. and about a ship is a close range ship and nonesense like that, mebbe you should try to fly it differently if it doesn't work anymore and stop whining about ppl that couldn't adapt to the overuse of an overpowered module (only nos counter was a nos) while being unable to even try to adapt to the new situation yourselves.
Try taking your thumb out and paying attention. Pilgrims are closerange simply because they have to be. They have no range bonus. You do the maths.
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.10.03 19:04:00 -
[48]
how about 'adapting' and flying a curse then? i heard they need the same skills.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2007.10.03 19:07:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Krist Valentine on 03/10/2007 19:08:04
Originally by: Shiken Kan how about 'adapting' and flying a curse then? i heard they need the same skills.
For someone who's clearly such a genius, you're not very good at proving me (a mere commoner) wrong, really. My original post mentioned that pilgrims had been wtfpwned. You tell me to fly a curse. I'm not complaining about curses. Pilgrims are a different form of ship to curses. Pilgrims cloak and stealthy stealthy. So yeah. Jog on.
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.03 19:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Shiken Kan how about 'adapting' and flying a curse then? i heard they need the same skills.
So basically don't know anything about the ships we are talking about then?
If you can't tell the difference between a curse and a pilgrim you most certainly have never flown one.
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2007.10.03 19:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: Shiken Kan how about 'adapting' and flying a curse then? i heard they need the same skills.
So basically don't know anything about the ships we are talking about then?
If you can't tell the difference between a curse and a pilgrim you most certainly have never flown one.
Yes.
Plus, I'm in love with your sig.
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.10.03 19:29:00 -
[52]
aah sorry i thought you missed your ability to burn a ships cap instantly while being able to damp it's lock time into infinity. must have forgotten you also want to be invulnerable in case you could loose your 100 million isk ship.
how about just trying to adapt and maybe even loose a ship from time to time as that's what you tell other people to do.
oh and still, a module which can only be countered by the very same module needs to be looked at.
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AnKahn
Caldari Dark Star LTD
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Posted - 2007.10.03 19:43:00 -
[53]
I love the comment many posts above about the NOS nerf ruining so many ships. Actually NOS the way it was ruined a lot of ships that had sensible set ups but could not run their modules.
NOS drone boats. Lock, NOS, disrupt, web, send drones, go for a beer. Oh wait , might pop my drones!Go back to keyboard, scoop and redeploy (that tactic is getting nerfed too, heh).
Oh yea, NOS PvP took a lot of skill!!
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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2007.10.03 19:58:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 03/10/2007 19:59:46
Thought it would be an easy place to find ya but If you can't find it or don't show up, then I understand. Plus, it wouldn't be the same playing wihtout all the lag that I'm use to. (Hint Big Fleet Battles)
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Rialtor
Amarr Yarrrateers Mass Destruction.
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Posted - 2007.10.03 20:55:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Rialtor on 03/10/2007 20:55:55 They could have fixed nos with a stacking penalty, or a diminishing returns system based on %. I'm not feeling this all or nothing system.
But I much rather this nos incarnation to what it was before.
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Flyit
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Posted - 2007.10.03 22:16:00 -
[56]
Personally I think the nerf has affected the Curse more than the Pilgrim.
Without the energy from the nos, the Curse finds it difficult to maintain enough cap to run sensor dampeners and a MWD. (The SD fit is the most common setup I've come across)
But with the Pilgrim...I'm struggling to see much of a difference. Just fit 2 unstable neuts and one tech II small. All you're really doing is replacing a midslot with a cap booster. Once the opponent is out of cap just leave the 1 small neut running and you've easily enough cap to maintain your very decent tank
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.04 00:11:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Flyit Personally I think the nerf has affected the Curse more than the Pilgrim.
Without the energy from the nos, the Curse finds it difficult to maintain enough cap to run sensor dampeners and a MWD. (The SD fit is the most common setup I've come across)
But with the Pilgrim...I'm struggling to see much of a difference. Just fit 2 unstable neuts and one tech II small. All you're really doing is replacing a midslot with a cap booster. Once the opponent is out of cap just leave the 1 small neut running and you've easily enough cap to maintain your very decent tank
Im inclined to agree.
Ultimately the curse and pilgrim relied upon the dual effect of the nos: sure it sucked your opponents cap dry, but it kept yours topped up at the same time. And thats the crucial difference.
e.g Im on 25% cap you're on 50%, (cycle) im on 50% cap you're on 25% (cycle) Im on 75% cap youre on 0%.
Using nos and neuts means:
e.g Im on 25% cap you're on 50%, (cycle) im on 25% cap, youre on 25% cap, Im on 0% cap, you're on 0% cap.
Simplistic numbers there but that's the general effect.
The Curse has dropped from around 95mil isk to under 40mil isk since July and if sensor damps are nerfed it will drop even further (perhaps below 20mil). Simply because TDs are not enough to protect it in a missile heavy environment.
One suggestion is to give the pilgrim an increased nos/neut range and reduce its tank slightly while reducing the curses nos/neut range, adding a bonus to HAMs and massively improving its tank.
The curse gets up close and personal (its a combat ship after all, and a khanid one) while the pilgrim is a stand off support vessel.
C.
- sig designer - eve mail |
Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2007.10.04 00:24:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 04/10/2007 00:25:18
Originally by: Cailais
One suggestion is to give the pilgrim an increased nos/neut range and reduce its tank slightly while reducing the curses nos/neut range, adding a bonus to HAMs and massively improving its tank.
The curse gets up close and personal (its a combat ship after all, and a khanid one) while the pilgrim is a stand off support vessel.
C.
Are you crazy, don't nerf the curse. We already have the SAC and the Damnation spewing out HAMs and neither do good dps. We don't need to give up the range of the curse for anything. The other recon ships have twice the range on the curse already.
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Megadon
Caldari Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.04 01:20:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Catelco When ECM's were nerfed some time ago, they were nerfed as a wide spectrum weapon, fitted on every single ship. Now after the nerf, there are ships that have specific bonus for ECM that still are excellent usign thoose ecm modules.
The problem with nos is that the nerf bat has nerfed too to the ships that have nos bonuses.
IMHO pilgrim has virtually lost one of his bonuses
Thats pretty much it in a nutshell but CCP has decided to go down the road of making the game more of a rock/paper/scissors type of a deal than assymetric warfare.
They want the game to be easy, everyone gets a prize and everyone is happy. Next we will have walking in stations and disco parties and you will be able to buy clothes for your character and change his/her hair style.
CCP is ushering in the "Kinder Gentler" Eve Universe so kiddies playing their playstation/xbox/WoW MMORPG's will come on over and take a look at the new "User Friendly" Eve.
We certainly wouldn't want anything to be "Unfair" in the new order now would we?
The new Hello Kitty Space Ship!! For The New Eve!!
Linkage --------------
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Depp Knight
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.04 01:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Flyit Personally I think the nerf has affected the Curse more than the Pilgrim.
Without the energy from the nos, the Curse finds it difficult to maintain enough cap to run sensor dampeners and a MWD. (The SD fit is the most common setup I've come across)
But with the Pilgrim...I'm struggling to see much of a difference. Just fit 2 unstable neuts and one tech II small. All you're really doing is replacing a midslot with a cap booster. Once the opponent is out of cap just leave the 1 small neut running and you've easily enough cap to maintain your very decent tank
You seem a little off track. See that mid slot is very important for the pilgrim as its a close range ship. TP's and damps do little effect when your in web range you know. The 2 neut 1 nos setup with cap booster would of work before nos nerf as your nos's would still be giving you cap to relieve you from the drian you get by using nos's. Because your using 2 neuts with bonuses, you wont be getting many cycles of nos.
A 2 nos 1 neut set up which was used before nos nerf is still the best option for the pilgrim.
Another huge problem with the pilgrim is that its the only recon out there thats range is very short. This is what attracted me to the pilgrim in the first place. It was like no other. The nos's were strong enough to help your tank to fight at close range while draining these to drone them. Still skill was needed to survive. The midslots normally used 2 TP's to help avoid dmg.
This is why I dont want the pilgrim to get a nos range bonus, though it would help it takes away what was speacial and unique about the ship. Every other recon is better than the pilgrim in every role. See a falcon could jam well over 100km, arazu could damp over 70km, Rapier can web at 40km. Though the pilgrim has tp's, but wouldnt you rather damp or jam ships than tracking disrupting them? So the the pilgrim was a close range ship and it was good at that, now the nos nerf has taken that away from them
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