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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
James Duar
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.22 12:57:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Luigi Thirty
Originally by: CCP Prism X I should code in some 'attach bookmark' feature into the mailing system and just disallow turning bookmarks into items. Rabble, rabble! RABBLE, RABBLE!!1one
You know it already exists, right? Sorta.
It doesn't (I think?) but god please do this.
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Luigi Thirty
Caldari 19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2007.09.22 12:58:00 -
[92]
Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: Luigi Thirty
Originally by: CCP Prism X I should code in some 'attach bookmark' feature into the mailing system and just disallow turning bookmarks into items. Rabble, rabble! RABBLE, RABBLE!!1one
You know it already exists, right? Sorta.
It doesn't (I think?) but god please do this.
You can attach BMs to mails but they don't actually send. ---- DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLE:(((( |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.22 16:23:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Sgt Job I donÆt think you have any experience of flying a freighter and you donÆt you know anything about what it is like to be in the freighter-business and all that it means.
No I don't have any experience flying a freighter. And you're right, if a single cruiser scans you and bumps you until a whole gang warps in after, then I will reluctantly agree that there ain't a whole lot you can do about it. That does sound pretty cheesy.
Originally by: Sgt Job In fact I donÆt think you have much experience of anything of any weight in Eve, but you think you do. YouÆre probably convinced that your views of different occurrences in Eve are indisputably right and true because you, alone, got the perfect insight of what is Eve.
Holy crap verbal smackdown. 2 points for you sir. No, I don't think my points are irrefutable, I'm just sick of people crying that it's so totally unfair. I think if you put as much coordination and half as much time into getting your freighter around that the gankers put into catching you, that you would minimize the odds of ever getting ganked. And if you have to keep hauling billions and billions around all the time you damn well have the resources to get help and you can afford the time to take care of it or pay someone to do so.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Sgt Job
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Posted - 2007.09.22 16:59:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Sgt Job I donÆt think you have any experience of flying a freighter and you donÆt you know anything about what it is like to be in the freighter-business and all that it means.
No I don't have any experience flying a freighter. And you're right, if a single cruiser scans you and bumps you until a whole gang warps in after, then I will reluctantly agree that there ain't a whole lot you can do about it. That does sound pretty cheesy.
Ok, so one of your original arguments is bad and it seems that you too realize that
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Sgt Job In fact I donÆt think you have much experience of anything of any weight in Eve, but you think you do. YouÆre probably convinced that your views of different occurrences in Eve are indisputably right and true because you, alone, got the perfect insight of what is Eve.
Holy crap verbal smackdown. 2 points for you sir. No, I don't think my points are irrefutable
And i'm not one of the "small vocal minority of people who get their stuff destroyed who cry foul".
Originally by: Frug I think if you put as much coordination and half as much time into getting your freighter around that the gankers put into catching you, that you would minimize the odds of ever getting ganked.
I'm sure you think that and i'm sure there are counters to ganks too. Just not any viable at the moment.
Originally by: Frug And if you have to keep hauling billions and billions around all the time you damn well have the resources to get help and you can afford the time to take care of it or pay someone to do so.
My personal capital has nothing to do with this issue. I hope you don't fail t realize that.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.22 17:40:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Sgt Job
Ok, so one of your original arguments is bad and it seems that you too realize that
I had you lumped in with a certain type of person and was ranting a little much. Yes, if you were being cautious and took adequate precautions, and a guy ganked you by bumping until a gang arrived... Then I actually do feel for you. That's cheese. I have said before I think insurance shouldn't be given to suicide gankers but that's a slightly different issue than saying there is no counter. I don't think most freighter ganks happen that way, am I wrong? Cause people should be pointing that out, specifically, to CCP. I will probably have a freighter in a month or so, so I guess I'll find out the hard way?
Originally by: Sgt Job
Originally by: Frug I think if you put as much coordination and half as much time into getting your freighter around that the gankers put into catching you, that you would minimize the odds of ever getting ganked.
I'm sure you think that and i'm sure there are counters to ganks too. Just not any viable at the moment.
Fine, fine. I concede that I can't think of a viable counter to what you described. I have bumped an obelisk until it logged off to escape me while I was in a condor. That was jokes.
Originally by: Sgt Job
My personal capital has nothing to do with this issue. I hope you don't fail t realize that.
But it does, both directly and indirectly. The fatter you get the bigger and more obvious a target you become. The more you go in and out of the same routes hauling bigger and bigger sacks of jewels the more (most people) will take for granted how unsafe it is. Then heaven forbid you end up AFK hauling or slacking off and die because you weren't careful. I think that's what happens to most people who come and complain. It should never be *yawn* another 3 billion isk cargo haul to jita. The pirates feed off of that sort of activity and more power to them.
If you have lots of capital you can hire mercs, use courier contracts, pay for scouts, form an intel channel to spot known suiciders, use implants to toughen the freighter up, use escorts...
The suggestion in a lot of the previous posts is that oh I'll just use a lagsploits -instead- of all that organizing logistics stuff.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Sgt Job
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Posted - 2007.09.22 18:05:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Sgt Job
Ok, so one of your original arguments is bad and it seems that you too realize that
I had you lumped in with a certain type of person and was ranting a little much. Yes, if you were being cautious and took adequate precautions, and a guy ganked you by bumping until a gang arrived... Then I actually do feel for you. That's cheese. I have said before I think insurance shouldn't be given to suicide gankers but that's a slightly different issue than saying there is no counter. I don't think most freighter ganks happen that way, am I wrong? Cause people should be pointing that out, specifically, to CCP. I will probably have a freighter in a month or so, so I guess I'll find out the hard way?
Can't remember me stating that that there is no counter because the fact that insurance are being payed out to gankers.
In short, you are agreeing that your original statement about blobs on gate were a bit off?
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Sgt Job
Originally by: Frug I think if you put as much coordination and half as much time into getting your freighter around that the gankers put into catching you, that you would minimize the odds of ever getting ganked.
I'm sure you think that and i'm sure there are counters to ganks too. Just not any viable at the moment.
Fine, fine. I concede that I can't think of a viable counter to what you described. I have bumped an obelisk until it logged off to escape me while I was in a condor. That was jokes.
Thanks
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Sgt Job
My personal capital has nothing to do with this issue. I hope you don't fail t realize that.
But it does, both directly and indirectly. The fatter you get the bigger and more obvious a target you become. The more you go in and out of the same routes hauling bigger and bigger sacks of jewels the more (most people) will take for granted how unsafe it is.
But it does not.
The balance between freighter vs ganker, risk and reward, viable tactics or no viable tactics ect. does not change wether Sgt Job got 1 ISK or 100 billion ISK.
Originally by: Frug
If you have lots of capital you can hire mercs, use courier contracts, pay for scouts, form an intel channel to spot known suiciders, use implants to toughen the freighter up, use escorts...
Are you saying that my expenses for mercs, scouts, courier contracts on a single freighter-run decreases the more money I have? Will my runs automaticly become more profitable and/or cost less if i have 50 billion instead of 5 billion?
Please explain.
Quote:
The suggestion in a lot of the previous posts is that oh I'll just use a lagsploits -instead- of all that organizing logistics stuff.
I think it's more like "oh i'll just use a lagsploit since there aren't much other viable alternatives to protect my investment".
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.22 18:25:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Sgt Job
The balance between freighter vs ganker, risk and reward, viable tactics or no viable tactics ect. does not change wether Sgt Job got 1 ISK or 100 billion ISK.
No but Sgt Job's respect for what 3 billion isk means very well might.
I really don't know what you're hauling back and forth that's worth so much and that you can't split up into smaller less risky runs. Even though I'll admit there is an issue with bumping I won't buy into the common claims that this is a rampant, game breaking issue.
Originally by: Sgt Job
Originally by: Frug
If you have lots of capital you can hire mercs, use courier contracts, pay for scouts, form an intel channel to spot known suiciders, use implants to toughen the freighter up, use escorts...
Are you saying that my expenses for mercs, scouts, courier contracts on a single freighter-run decreases the more money I have? Will my runs automaticly become more profitable and/or cost less if i have 50 billion instead of 5 billion?
No but you can invest that capital in a wise way to accomplish these things while still turning a good profit, while many other people might not have the initial investment to put down.
Not to mention you can cope much better with a loss, and then flag whoever aggressed you so that you can deal with them in the future in a number of ways.
Plus, I have a personal suspicion of anyone rolling in that much dough complaining, however baseless that may be.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
SN3263827
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2007.09.22 18:33:00 -
[98]
As a pirate who has a freighter-capable isk-slave, I can tell you that a single ship can effectively scout and escort for a freighter and make it nigh invulnerable.
If you fail to see how then you don't understand the problem. _____________________________________________
My Wishlist
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Steffie Mc
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Posted - 2007.09.22 18:36:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: Steffie Mc
Originally by: Admiral Nova Wait, you're saying that it didn't cause any lag, but you're whinging that it's a lag bomb exploit ?
How does that work?
It could cause lag for all people opening his wreck after he has already gone pop, but what would be the point of that? It would not save his ship, and if he had something worth ganking for they would still gank him.
Therefore it is pointless and just causes more server lag than is needed.
It lags the poor ******* that scans him. It lags the loot ship. Lagging the loot ship gives you a possible opportunity to grab another ship and enact some revenge.
God damn, how many times must I repeat myself. I scanned him and [b]I DID NOT LAG ATALL[/b]
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Sgt Job
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Posted - 2007.09.22 19:17:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Sgt Job
The balance between freighter vs ganker, risk and reward, viable tactics or no viable tactics ect. does not change wether Sgt Job got 1 ISK or 100 billion ISK.
No but Sgt Job's respect for what 3 billion isk means very well might.
It might but it don't have to. It is very possible for me to value 3 billion isk as high as when i was 1 day old. I still claim that being rich doesn't solve the problem to make viable and safe freighterruns.
Originally by: Frug
I really don't know what you're hauling back and forth that's worth so much and that you can't split up into smaller less risky runs.
Again, you need to be realistic about it. A high sec trip can take 2 hours afk, one way. 4 hours back and forth.
Yes, I can split the cargo in several runs. But then again, many unbalanced things that has been tweaked also had a counter, but they weren't very viable... just like spending 12-16 hours hauling in empire.
You don't have to fill a freighter with expensive stuff to make it profitable for high-sec gankers. Every-day commodities is often enough to be a target.
Originally by: Frug Even though I'll admit there is an issue with bumping I won't buy into the common claims that this is a rampant, game breaking issue.
Just because it MAY not be very common it isn't a problem that should be adressed? Then you wouldn't complain if CCP gave me a couple hundreds of T2 BPOs and a few invulnerable ships. It's not like it'd be gamebreaking if only I got them, right?
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Sgt Job
Originally by: Frug
If you have lots of capital you can hire mercs, use courier contracts, pay for scouts, form an intel channel to spot known suiciders, use implants to toughen the freighter up, use escorts...
Are you saying that my expenses for mercs, scouts, courier contracts on a single freighter-run decreases the more money I have? Will my runs automaticly become more profitable and/or cost less if i have 50 billion instead of 5 billion?
No but you can invest that capital in a wise way to accomplish these things while still turning a good profit, while many other people might not have the initial investment to put down.
Yes, an initial capital of, maybe 100 mil would open up some options. That's 11% of the initial Freighterinvestment.
My point is that it doesn't matter because it will cut down traders/haulers profitmargin wether he got gazillions of isk to spend or not.
Originally by: Frug Not to mention you can cope much better with a loss, and then flag whoever aggressed you so that you can deal with them in the future in a number of ways.
So money should be a pointer of wether people should have to put up with inbalanced gamemechanics or not?
Why don't everyone with more than 10 mil in their wallet get to be shot everywhere, unpunished.
After all, they can cope better with a loss.
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Sgt Job
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Posted - 2007.09.22 19:18:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Steffie Mc
God damn, how many times must I repeat myself. I scanned him and I DID NOT LAG ATALL.
God damn, how many times must I repeat myself. Have you ever tried to open one of my cans!?
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Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.22 19:23:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: Vrizuh They've done the frikken math on it. They know the exact amount of dps you need a minute to destroy a freighter. "They" being the ones who determine the price point for ganking a freighter.
So if "They" have done their homework, calculated the dps, fitted out the right ships, organised the team, coordinated the op, and then executed the trap, probably involving at least 15 people. Why should 1 freighter pilot be immune to that ?
You're expanding it out to make it bigger than it is. You could do it on a spreadsheet. All you'd need is the spreadsheet to determine what ships for which race, and a guy with a scanner and a market browser.
When engaging an enemy pos you dont get out a spreadsheet beforehand and go "well if we just blob it that is strategy enough". Countless alliances have learned this the hard way. But apparently you think blobbing should guarantee victory, regardless of whether it impacts an entire playstyle to the point of being ridiculous. The freighter is supposed to carry a tonne of gear. It costs a lot of money, and take a time to train for. Gankers seem to think it is fair that you spend a few hundred mil and get a few bil in returns. Sgt asked Prism a very fair question. How is a freighter to defend themselves (WITHOUT LOGOFFSKI!) and what items can fill a freighter without instantly condemning it to death?
Like I said. Reppers are slow to kick in. Lag makes them not a viable option. When freighters are ganked, they're pretty much alpha-struck to avoid concord. If you can alpha strike it, what is a freighter to do? It'll be in structure by the time the first wave of remote reppers/drones completes their cycle. Thats if its lucky.
How about this compromise. You gank a freighter, you gotta use a freighter to pick up the resulting cargo can? Fair's fair ;)
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.22 19:24:00 -
[103]
Originally by: SN3263827 As a pirate who has a freighter-capable isk-slave, I can tell you that a single ship can effectively scout and escort for a freighter and make it nigh invulnerable.
If you fail to see how then you don't understand the problem.
As a pilot who has assaulted alliance freighters I can tell you that you only need one ship at the gate to identify the target before the pre-aligned gank squad warps in and swiftly disposes of it.
Is your scout going to order you to hold for every single ship (even industrials and shuttles) within scan range of a gate? I'm sure that cuts into ones profit/hr.
Also to those who don't own a freighter or understand trade on this level, just because you have billions in your cargo hold doesn't mean you'll make billions for delivery. You make a small percentage of your cargoes value, the markup price, the difference between the price you bought it at and the price your selling at. This is after painstakingly researching the market, route, sale area, etc. Not only is this percentage often exceptionally small but also shifts in the market (or aggressive competition) can mean you make a substantial loss. It takes a lot of effort and includes a lot of risk even without the chance of getting ganked.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.22 20:03:00 -
[104]
This is gonna be my last reply cause I think the points have been made.
Originally by: Sgt Job A high sec trip can take 2 hours afk, one way.
You shouldn't be doing it afk, that is the whole point of practically everything I've said.
Originally by: Sgt Job You don't have to fill a freighter with expensive stuff to make it profitable for high-sec gankers. Every-day commodities is often enough to be a target.
Whatever it costs for them to turn a profit while losing every single ship that shoots at you, obviously. Plus they need all those ships as well as haulers big enough to pull back all that loot. I'm not buying that. As I said, I'm getting a freighter soon and I guess I'll see for myself, won't I?
Originally by: Sgt Job Then you wouldn't complain if CCP gave me a couple hundreds of T2 BPOs and a few invulnerable ships. It's not like it'd be gamebreaking if only I got them, right?
That analogy is not comparable at all.
Originally by: Sgt Job My point is that it doesn't matter because it will cut down traders/haulers profitmargin wether he got gazillions of isk to spend or not.
Pirates cutting into profit margins!?
Yeah. Yeah they'll do that. Those pirates
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Sgt Job
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Posted - 2007.09.22 20:35:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Frug This is gonna be my last reply cause I think the points have been made.
Originally by: Sgt Job A high sec trip can take 2 hours afk, one way.
You shouldn't be doing it afk, that is the whole point of practically everything I've said.
The point with splitting it up was to make it unprofitable for suicidegankers was it not? The 12-16h AFK trip will still take a whole day to make if you are at the computer.
Originally by: Sgt Job You don't have to fill a freighter with expensive stuff to make it profitable for high-sec gankers. Every-day commodities is often enough to be a target.
Whatever it costs for them to turn a profit while losing every single ship that shoots at you, obviously. Plus they need all those ships as well as haulers big enough to pull back all that loot. I'm not buying that. As I said, I'm getting a freighter soon and I guess I'll see for myself, won't I?
Ok, load up with bunch of modules and if you get ganked you would understand people if called you a "stupid sucker" Frug and tell you to "find another game" Frug?
Originally by: Sgt Job Then you wouldn't complain if CCP gave me a couple hundreds of T2 BPOs and a few invulnerable ships. It's not like it'd be gamebreaking if only I got them, right?
That analogy is not comparable at all.
By that logic, which you seemed to be using, a problem's need to get fixed gets reduced by how rare it is.
Originally by: Sgt Job My point is that it doesn't matter because it will cut down traders/haulers profitmargin wether he got gazillions of isk to spend or not.
Pirates cutting into profit margins!?
Yeah. Yeah they'll do that. Those pirates
Cutting into profitmargins so that the profession is not viable anymore.
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SN3263827
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2007.09.23 01:03:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf As a pilot who has assaulted alliance freighters I can tell you that you only need one ship at the gate to identify the target before the pre-aligned gank squad warps in and swiftly disposes of it.
Is your scout going to order you to hold for every single ship (even industrials and shuttles) within scan range of a gate? I'm sure that cuts into ones profit/hr.
I'll put you in the "don't understand the problem" camp then...
It doesn't matter if the gank squad is pre-aligned or not. Provided the freighter is not being flown afk (which would make an escort pointless anyway) it will be virtually invulnerable given the one scout/escort. _____________________________________________
My Wishlist
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Raskor
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Posted - 2007.09.23 02:15:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Miriyana
Originally by: Mikal Drey
3) adjusting market average price
Good try, but the price of trit is un-inflatable because of the price of shuttles that is fixed (i.e. the trit from a perfectly refined shuttle). So trit will never go above ~3 and below ~2.x in empire.
I don't have the sale in my transaction log anymore... but I sure remember selling a pile of trit for around 7isk p/u awhile back. Not everyone knows about refine of npc items. Some people are just lazy and will pay the asking price in the current system.
And actually, the refine of a shuttle is more like 3.6 so it can definitely get above ~3.
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Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.09.23 02:23:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Sgt Job
If it is like you described afterwards then how is your answer of ANY relevance to the discussion?
What, are you still angry
People like you that whine and whine, are sometimes called trolls. In this case, I accept that you are just misguided
I, erm, like kill things and stuff |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.09.23 03:25:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Miriyana
Originally by: Mikal Drey
3) adjusting market average price
Good try, but the price of trit is un-inflatable because of the price of shuttles that is fixed (i.e. the trit from a perfectly refined shuttle). So trit will never go above ~3 and below ~2.x in empire.
Yeah, but you can shift small piles of it between yourself and an alt and make the average price look higher to the people who actually pay attention to the "x% above/below market average thing.
Also, never underestimate just how lazy people can be. If I need 35 more trit to do X, and don't have anything I can melt fast, I'll buy it at 4 isk/unit in station if I don't have to move. That's pocket change. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Sgt Job
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Posted - 2007.09.23 10:03:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Sgt Job on 23/09/2007 10:03:55
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: Sgt Job
If it is like you described afterwards then how is your answer of ANY relevance to the discussion?
What, are you still angry
People like you that whine and whine, are sometimes called trolls. In this case, I accept that you are just misguided
It's easy not to come up with any real arguments and just say "lolz ur dumb" right?
You seemed pretty defeated earlier in this thread and now it seems that you have resorted to trying to patronise me. Well, I can only assume that your mommy dropped you on your head when you were a baby and that it is your gimped intelligence that limits you to insults instead of arguments.
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.23 12:19:00 -
[111]
Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf As a pilot who has assaulted alliance freighters I can tell you that you only need one ship at the gate to identify the target before the pre-aligned gank squad warps in and swiftly disposes of it.
Is your scout going to order you to hold for every single ship (even industrials and shuttles) within scan range of a gate? I'm sure that cuts into ones profit/hr.
I'll put you in the "don't understand the problem" camp then...
It doesn't matter if the gank squad is pre-aligned or not. Provided the freighter is not being flown afk (which would make an escort pointless anyway) it will be virtually invulnerable given the one scout/escort.
Put me in whatever camp you want, but I have both defended and ganked freighters. A pre-aligned gang at a safe-spot just outside scan range can be on a freighter exceptionally fast. Even if the freighter were able to accelerate to warp in time the scout (who would be diligently watching it's speed in case of such an event) can activate a scrambler, this would mean a marginally quicker Concord response but would not greatly effect the outcome since the warp time of the gang is under 5 seconds. However this never happens as freighters cannot get into warp in 5 seconds.
I'm not against freighter ganking by the way, I'm against cowardly avoidance of the war-dec mechanic which is intended to allow you to strike enemy assets in empire while allowing the enemy to strike back against a pre-identified opponent. It remains easier to assault an alliances resources in empire than in space, t2 ships in a freighters hold offer little resistance and this is a valid and well thought out tactic as is assaulting any profitable target you are at war with. However assaulting from behind the defense of Concord isn't PvP, it's pathetic, but it is currently the most efficient way to pirate or attack enemy supply lines.
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Sue Malorie
Caldari Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2007.09.23 13:13:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Sue Malorie on 23/09/2007 13:14:30 It seems like CCP want other players to be able to gank innocent freighters pilots in high sec. Or ganking in general. To prevent themselves to be blown up nearby Jita with a cargo loaded with stash they want to sell, they have to do some anti-ganking tricks. Like unstacking 20000 trit or having bookmarks in their cargo.
If CCP don't like the "tricks", please add some slots on the freighters so pilots can fit their ship with hardeners and reppers. CCP can also change the Concordes attitude, instead of Concord attacks a ganker drones, Concord will attack gankers ship instant.
One other thing, there are way to many unused containers in space - that slow the game. All anchored passwd protected containers should have a time limit of how long they can be in space -unused- before they "pop". All the players who quits the game should have their containers in space removed as well. Anyway, don't blame anyone who want to protect their cargo by using some "tricks". Concorde do not their job to protect and serve good enough or some other players like to say: They don't punish well...
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SN3263827
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2007.09.23 15:58:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf A pre-aligned gang at a safe-spot just outside scan range can be on a freighter exceptionally fast. Even if the freighter were able to accelerate to warp in time the scout (who would be diligently watching it's speed in case of such an event) can activate a scrambler, this would mean a marginally quicker Concord response but would not greatly effect the outcome since the warp time of the gang is under 5 seconds. However this never happens as freighters cannot get into warp in 5 seconds.
A gang outside scan range cannot be in position in 5 seconds. Outside scan range means >14.5au Its which is at least a 5 second warp, not taking into account acceleration and deceleration times, and not counting the short period following every warp where one cannot lock targets. You're looking at closer to 8 or 10 seconds. You might not think the difference is much, but it's the difference between a dead freighter and one that's in warp before you've loaded the grid.
A freighter can be in warp in about 5 seconds. Your continued insistence that they cannot just goes to show that you really don't understand how warping works or the mechanics I'm trying not to spell out for you. Think about it. _____________________________________________
My Wishlist
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.23 22:41:00 -
[114]
Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf A pre-aligned gang at a safe-spot just outside scan range can be on a freighter exceptionally fast. Even if the freighter were able to accelerate to warp in time the scout (who would be diligently watching it's speed in case of such an event) can activate a scrambler, this would mean a marginally quicker Concord response but would not greatly effect the outcome since the warp time of the gang is under 5 seconds. However this never happens as freighters cannot get into warp in 5 seconds.
A gang outside scan range cannot be in position in 5 seconds. Outside scan range means >14.5au Its which is at least a 5 second warp, not taking into account acceleration and deceleration times, and not counting the short period following every warp where one cannot lock targets. You're looking at closer to 8 or 10 seconds. You might not think the difference is much, but it's the difference between a dead freighter and one that's in warp before you've loaded the grid.
A freighter can be in warp in about 5 seconds. Your continued insistence that they cannot just goes to show that you really don't understand how warping works or the mechanics I'm trying not to spell out for you. Think about it.
Ok, so maybe I wasn't counting the seconds last time I did this and gave a rough estimate.
However two points: > Webbing freighters no longer works. > You ignored the scrambling newbship which would stop that freighter dead either way.
Activating his scrambler as late as possible would mean even a web accelerated freighter wouldn't get out in time and would mean losing just a couple of seconds before the gang arrives (who were in warp as soon as the freighter jumped in).
If you want to be really clever you can even start warping to the gate as the freighter activates the out-gate in the previous system, provided you can spare an alt in a shuttle to watch it.
Heck you could (if you have a bottle-neck system) have your guys warp to the next gate while the freighter is still in warp from the entry gate. His scout can scream down teamspeak all he likes that warp isn't going to get canceled.
Neither tactic is required however as my original two points stand these days, ganking freighters got a lot easier since the last time I was assaulting an alliance supply line.
Your continued insistence that you cannot catch a freighter that is being scouted for proves that you really don't understand the finer points of the art of freighter gank. There, I've spelled it out for you so that you don't have to think about it.
P.S. I'm not usually one for veiled sarcasm but I'm happy to exchange like for like. P.P.S Everyone I know who flies a freighter probably hates me now.
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Anti Protagonist
Gallente Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.09.24 15:44:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Vrizuh
Originally by: Tortun Nahme only takes one corp mate in a cruiser to provide freighter ganksafety
Consider that an armor repper wont even restore HP until the end of its cycle.
Use a shield rep then, they transfer at the start of the cycle. I need a sig.... |
Elmicker
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.09.24 16:12:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Anti Protagonist Use a shield rep then, they transfer at the start of the cycle.
Doesn't matter when the rep starts or finishes. A suicide gank squad deals sufficient alpha strike to destroy the ship instantly.
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Sgt Job
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Posted - 2007.09.24 16:21:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: Anti Protagonist Use a shield rep then, they transfer at the start of the cycle.
Doesn't matter when the rep starts or finishes. A suicide gank squad deals sufficient alpha strike to destroy the ship instantly.
The thread is about freighters.
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.25 09:02:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Sgt Job
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: Anti Protagonist Use a shield rep then, they transfer at the start of the cycle.
A ganksquad can rip through 150,000 HP in around 20-25 seconds that's with a total of only 5000 DPS which is 12 OgreII fitted Dominix. Of course the gank squad will need a couple more as DPS will drop as Concord starts killing them (after up 20 seconds depending on system security levle).
A t2 large remote shield rep repairs 384 HP per 4.5 seconds. With 5 logistics cruisers repping each fielding 4 reps (because they don't intend to rep for long) they add a total of 7680 every 4.5 seconds, thats 1707/s. Each rep they get off will take our low DPS gank squad another 1.8 seconds of DPS to cover (taking the 20% thermal resist into consideration)
Even with quad large reps each logistics ship repairs 342 HP per second, each Dominix deals over 430, skills will not improve the rep amount as logistic bonuses are to range, cap use, and fitting and shield emission further reduces cap use.
So if I bring 30 Dominix (which still means a fine profit) you would need 12 quad rep logistics cruisers to reduce the DPS to the point where it would take more than 25 seconds to kill the freighter.
So please will people stop thinking logistics is going to solve this... it doesn't.
Even CS bonuses are going to very little because they don't boost structure resistance. The Freighters shield and armor make up only around 10k of it's 150k HP's, 140k of them will remain unresisted.
...and it's still profitable to bring up to 60 Dominix.
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Nazdarovie
Minmatar Macabre Votum INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.09.25 13:39:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Nazdarovie on 25/09/2007 13:40:09 Daelin Blackleaf he sayz
Quote:
However two points: > Webbing freighters no longer works. > You ignored the scrambling newbship which would stop that freighter dead either way.
I sayz absoulute crap i guess you havent tried it recently ?
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.26 20:37:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Nazdarovie Edited by: Nazdarovie on 25/09/2007 13:40:09 Daelin Blackleaf he sayz
Quote:
However two points: > Webbing freighters no longer works. > You ignored the scrambling newbship which would stop that freighter dead either way.
I sayz absoulute crap i guess you havent tried it recently ?
Yes. I'll admit i was under the impression it had been completely fixed. Trust me though before the patch it was a lot worse, now theres plenty of time for a fast locking frigate to get a lock or for a MWDing ship to get a bump. So, no, it's nothing a half-respectable gang couldn't handle.
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