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omiNATION
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Posted - 2007.09.18 01:36:00 -
[1]
Every other day there's a post whining about amarr, or snickering. I'm gallente and was thinking about cross training amarr, is there something mentally wrong with me? Why does evreyone think Amarr suck?
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tartrus
Templars of Space Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.18 01:42:00 -
[2]
i would say that alot of peeps just complain cus they cant fit it like a mega. u get peeps who fit the ships like there meant and they own peeps. whiners r to busy comparing dif ships trying to make em all the same, but each race cant all be fitted the same way. just wait for a tru amarr player to respond. im mini pilot who's best mate is amarr and his ships rock.
I would rather fight bob than old friends. personal feelings aside |
Lowanaera
Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.18 01:45:00 -
[3]
First lesson of Eve: stupid people fly FotM setups and whine about everything that isn't.
Amarr do still have disadvantages, the Apoc has no real role, beam fitting is still atrocious, etc but every race has its pet issues and Amarr are by no means the short bus race (at least no longer with the recent fixes).
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.09.18 01:45:00 -
[4]
Amarr arent too bad, they just did their damage types switching down so they do more therm than em.
Oh and having an entire ship bonus tied up in countering our weapons problems always feels like a bit of a waste. But i would happily put up with this if the damage lasers did improved due to changes in the damage they do like i said above.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.09.18 01:48:00 -
[5]
Amarr are not terrible, but they have issues. That shouldn't stop you from training for them if you like them however.
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Rialtor
Amarr Yarrrateers Mass Destruction.
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Posted - 2007.09.18 01:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: omiNATION Every other day there's a post whining about amarr, or snickering. I'm gallente and was thinking about cross training amarr, is there something mentally wrong with me? Why does evreyone think Amarr suck?
It's tough to start out as Amarr in my opinion. It's so easy to grind your cap to a halt, in PvE it equates to frequent Warp outs. In PvP it equals death. But once you start getting money, and skilling up cap skills intensively, it becomes bearable. Most of your ships in PvP will just depend on a big armor buffer since you won't have the cap to shoot and rep.
Once you make these concessions they're actually pretty cool to fly. Has a solid lineup of ships.
I agree with the above poster, Lasers have an innate disadvantage, while no true advantage to speak of, the dmg needs to be boosted so only amarr ships can effectively use lasers as well as Lasers doing superb dmg to make that cap bonus on all the ships actually mean something. For ships with an existing dmg bonus amarr ships would have 2 technically, since lasers inheritantly do more dmg, plus the actual dmg bonus. As it is now, alot of amarr ships only have 1 bonus.
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2007.09.18 01:59:00 -
[7]
It's not like flying Gallente, but you're not really all that ****ty (at max skills, in the beginning you really are that ****ty).
You're certainly at a disadvantage in most ship classes when compared to your competition, but they're a fun race to fly (shiny gold plating + lasers!), and (aside from the Apoc) perform adequately in their niche (though you could argue the apoc doesn't have a niche to begin with).
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:05:00 -
[8]
I started out Gallente and later cross-trained to Amarr. I'm glad I did.
There's certain things Amarr can do really well, as long as you got some beefy skills.
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Rialtor
Amarr Yarrrateers Mass Destruction.
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:11:00 -
[9]
Also from what I hear, Amarr End game is pretty sweet. By end game I mean the capital ships. Amarr also has some of the best cheap ships, Frigs (Punisher) and Cruisers (Arbitrator,Maller)...So it's just inbetween those 1st few weeks and 2+ years that you get the shaft :). jk
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omiNATION
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kruel I started out Gallente and later cross-trained to Amarr. I'm glad I did.
There's certain things Amarr can do really well, as long as you got some beefy skills.
Well I sort of feel the way you train is indicative of your playstyle. Right now I have like 1.5 mil SP in Engineering, far more than anything else! As far as I can tell, those cap/mechanical seem to be pointing amar
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Depp Knight
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:21:00 -
[11]
If you speak to old school players you will find out that the history of eve is known to have nerf amarr alot. Though some amarr ships have fitting problems, some have dps - tank issues, while the rest have cap issues. However the main problem is how eve is being played these days that is not helping amarr. Because 1 on 1 has been nerfed and small gangs has been encourage through even the most recent patches, EW and drones is how to play the game.
Amarr lack of Mid slots is evident to this. Thats why Gallente is considered the best pvpers. Good dmg with drones, good mid slot layouts, decent to good tanks. Not only that amarr has known cap issues and with the lack of mid slots, using a injector sometimes wasnt the option. It relied on Nos and if you look at the amarr ships you will find that often and most amarr ships had an extra high slot. With the nos nerf amarr has yet again been nerfed.
Where Minmie shines is low cap usage and speed, something that amarr doesnt have.
Caladri ships are known for great sniping ability and high about of mid slots for ew support. There poor dps and sometimes poor tanking ability is often ignored in the way they fight.
Amarr pilots are stuck, they dont know how to use their ship because they are limited to either good dmg or good tanking and never multiple ways.
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Depp Knight If you speak to old school players you will find out that the history of eve is known to have nerf amarr alot. Though some amarr ships have fitting problems, some have dps - tank issues, while the rest have cap issues. However the main problem is how eve is being played these days that is not helping amarr. Because 1 on 1 has been nerfed and small gangs has been encourage through even the most recent patches, EW and drones is how to play the game.
Amarr lack of Mid slots is evident to this. Thats why Gallente is considered the best pvpers. Good dmg with drones, good mid slot layouts, decent to good tanks. Not only that amarr has known cap issues and with the lack of mid slots, using a injector sometimes wasnt the option. It relied on Nos and if you look at the amarr ships you will find that often and most amarr ships had an extra high slot. With the nos nerf amarr has yet again been nerfed.
Where Minmie shines is low cap usage and speed, something that amarr doesnt have.
Caladri ships are known for great sniping ability and high about of mid slots for ew support. There poor dps and sometimes poor tanking ability is often ignored in the way they fight.
Amarr pilots are stuck, they dont know how to use their ship because they are limited to either good dmg or good tanking and never multiple ways.
This just about sums them up, you have to sacrifice one for another, but you frequently get no semblance of tank on amarr whatsoever if you want to do damage. It is very much one or the other, there is no middle ground.
(By god I am beginning to sound like Yoda; do or do not etc etc ). ----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here. |
Ruciza
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:30:00 -
[13]
Beam fitting is atrocious because people insist on the mwd. Amarr have cap issues because people insist on the mwd. The Apoc has "no real role" because people insist on the mwd.
People insist on an mwd because it's necessary in the shortsighted Gallente/Minmatar hybrid pvp culture that developed in 0.0.
Amarr are not meant to fit an mwd, if you do so, the drawbacks are higher than with the other races. Cue the whining.
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ruciza Beam fitting is atrocious because people insist on the mwd. Amarr have cap issues because people insist on the mwd. The Apoc has "no real role" because people insist on the mwd.
People insist on an mwd because it's necessary in the shortsighted Gallente/Minmatar hybrid pvp culture that developed in 0.0.
Amarr are not meant to fit an mwd, if you do so, the drawbacks are higher than with the other races. Cue the whining.
I agree. ----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here. |
Testosterone Bomb
Red Ballz
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:36:00 -
[15]
Actually once you understand that ships from all Races have issues, the question is like in any relationship are those isssues you can live with.
With Amarr you get the 2nd most SP intensive race with Mini being the highest.
*Great Capitals *Great new ships from the Khanid making them the equal or better of all the other ships in their class *Great Battleships for Fleet Battles *Probably the best Cruiser Arbitrator *The easiest Indy's to get into *Probably the best Logistics ship *Ships built around a single tanking system *Ships with drone bays that are overall the equal of Mini making it more a less a tie for 2nd *The best short range missile / rocket boats *Some of the best long range weapons *The only ships that still have an advantage in regards to NOS & Neut
Fly Safe
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Rialtor
Amarr Yarrrateers Mass Destruction.
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:36:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Rialtor on 18/09/2007 03:32:37
Originally by: Depp Knight If you speak to old school players you will find out that the history of eve is known to have nerf amarr alot. Though some amarr ships have fitting problems, some have dps - tank issues, while the rest have cap issues. However the main problem is how eve is being played these days that is not helping amarr. Because 1 on 1 has been nerfed and small gangs has been encourage through even the most recent patches, EW and drones is how to play the game.
Amarr lack of Mid slots is evident to this. Thats why Gallente is considered the best pvpers. Good dmg with drones, good mid slot layouts, decent to good tanks. Not only that amarr has known cap issues and with the lack of mid slots, using a injector sometimes wasnt the option. It relied on Nos and if you look at the amarr ships you will find that often and most amarr ships had an extra high slot. With the nos nerf amarr has yet again been nerfed.
Where Minmie shines is low cap usage and speed, something that amarr doesnt have.
Caladri ships are known for great sniping ability and high about of mid slots for ew support. There poor dps and sometimes poor tanking ability is often ignored in the way they fight.
Amarr pilots are stuck, they dont know how to use their ship because they are limited to either good dmg or good tanking and never multiple ways.
Not that I'm an old school player, but my perception of this through reading old posts and such is that it's more about the game changing around Amarr than Amarr being nerfed directly.
Amarr was balanced for a time when stacking penalities didn't exist. So nano, heatsink setups could be used to great effect by Amarr since they packed the most low slots. In a world without stacking penalities I can see how a ship like the Zealot could be a monster. But compare it to today's Eve, the zealot is lacking. It lost it's dmg it once had from unstacked sinks, and the speed from unstacked nanos. The ship wasn't updated when these changes took place as far as I know. And this seems to be the case with a few ships, so Amarr ships are "dated."
Like Depp said the game moved from low slot dominance to mid slot dominance. You'd think Caldari may have the edge, but no, they need their mids to tank. So you're left with Gallente a race that armor tanks but have alot of open midslots.
Caldari and Amarr suffer from the same problem, low effective mid slots.
Minnie and Gallente have it a bit better in that department, although some minnie ships shield tank, so they're 50/50. This is why Gallente are so tough, they virtually get drones for free and have 3-5 open mids, while Amarr pay for lasers which are no good.
As far as the nos nerf hurting amarr, I'm not sure it did really. It hurt the recons yes, but it opened up better Abaddon builds and Harbinger builds. Without the fear of nossing all the time you're more free to use your lasers more. Other races ended up using Nos way better than the Amarrians ever did.
For Amarr to be on top again, Lows or highs have to become more dominant than mids. Amarrians have alot of highs and lows.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.18 03:38:00 -
[17]
The short answer is yes.
The reasons are
1. Their sub battleships ships suck. There is one worthwhile ship in the whole bunch, the Harbinger, and now Khanid Mk II.
2. Their battleships are O.K. until you attempt to fit them for fleet operations where they need absolutly top skills to compete with any of the others. If you dont have RCU IIs it takes 3 fitting mods to fit a Geddon.
The Abaddon has lessened this pressure, but with its enormous cap use, it still has serious disadvantages that need to be mitigated.
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Stuart Price
Caldari Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2007.09.18 03:43:00 -
[18]
Some of their ships are supurb.
The Crusader is a useful little ship.
The Retribution can add some decent firepower to frig gangs.
The Abaddon is just a beast when properly fitted. The other day we had two bs's, a cruiser and an af pummeling one and it just WOULD NOT DIE. Alternatively it can dish out the hurt with t2 lasers.
But as already pointed out, there ARE issues with the Amarr fleet as a whole. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.09.18 03:56:00 -
[19]
Discounting all the T2-variants of all races, the only time Amarr shines is in it's BS lineup.
Compare this to a near-full-T1 lineup for Gallente
Compare this to a somewhat-lessened-T1 lineup for Caldari (BB, Caracal, Raven, Rokh)
Compare this to most of Mimmatar's T1 lineup.
There's a reason why Amarr continue to whine, sans the SP-heavy training of Mimmatar, Amarr are the hardest race to play, but when most of your skills are lvl5, Amarr start to shine, and not only in the BS department.
The problem herein lies with the main weapon system of the Amarr: Lasers. They use up too much cap, forcing midslots to be dedicated to cap modules, only do two types of damage, which can be easily tanked if warned ahead of time, and cap sustainability is basically thrown out the window.
Only advantages Amarr have with lasers is that if the target isnt tanking EM/Therm (by god who doesnt nowadays), it'll melt it fast, and that they have little-no ammo use (not counting faction/T2 ammo).
Sure they have major issues that need addressing (and there are many on the other side of the fence who say the same, not only Amarr flyers), but as it stands, Amarr are not completely left out the window, but are dangerously close to jumping off it. -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
X99 Z990
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Posted - 2007.09.18 03:58:00 -
[20]
Theyreeee ggggreeeatt!
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Rialtor
Amarr Yarrrateers Mass Destruction.
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Posted - 2007.09.18 03:59:00 -
[21]
Personally I think you underestimate the cruiser line the Arbitrator and the Maller are both good cruisers. And they have the punishers.
Each of these are great throw-away ships. Good bang for the buck.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.18 04:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rialtor Personally I think you underestimate the cruiser line the Arbitrator and the Maller are both good cruisers. And they have the punishers.
Each of these are great throw-away ships. Good bang for the buck.
No, the thorax and rupture are good bank for the buck. The Maller is just a bang.
The arbitrator doesnt use lasers.
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.09.18 04:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Rialtor Personally I think you underestimate the cruiser line the Arbitrator and the Maller are both good cruisers. And they have the punishers.
Each of these are great throw-away ships. Good bang for the buck.
No, the thorax and rupture are good bank for the buck. The Maller is just a bang.
The arbitrator doesnt use lasers.
And how do you explain the Maller tank, it is one of the cheapest ships but a tank like a t2 ship... ----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here. |
Depp Knight
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.18 04:27:00 -
[24]
Yes Rialtor I didn’t mean ccp nerf amarr directly but the way the game has changed, amarr have been nerfed inertly.
If you have a look at what makes gallante the best pvp boats out there is because of drones, mid, slots and lows. They have enough dps through drones and their guns that needing dmg mods is less important. Drones dont have a dmg mod to increase their dps so you will find that Gallente pilots would use their lows for full tank while they have enough mids for ew support.
Amarr ships use lows to increase dps and use their lows to tank. Because they use so much cap on their gun boats, an extended fight normally would leave the amarr ship in the dust. The lack of EW is a huge disadvantage.
As Rialtor mentioned. In the beggening low slots were the thing. A geddon could fit 7 or whatever heat sinks. No stacking pentalty at all made the geddon insanely good. It could just out damage anything, instapop anything smaller and melt the strongest of tanks. Over time with changes, stacking penalty's, the use of EW, the increase of hp along with many other changes, low slots are becoming less useful. Mid slots are the most important part of a ship now.
Also the mention of MWD is also a strong point. Pretty much if you want to pvp a mwd is mandatory, fitting that on amarr ship makes it extremly hard to outfit you ships. With 0.0 warfare, sniping is also used more than close combat. So fitting mwd, beams and now you have some serious fitting problems.
Its just how the game has progressed, and the game has progressed for the better. Old school players will say the eve is nearly a totally different game on how you play it than back then. The game has moved on and amarr for the most part has not.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.18 04:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: ThaMa Gebir
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Rialtor Personally I think you underestimate the cruiser line the Arbitrator and the Maller are both good cruisers. And they have the punishers.
Each of these are great throw-away ships. Good bang for the buck.
No, the thorax and rupture are good bank for the buck. The Maller is just a bang.
The arbitrator doesnt use lasers.
And how do you explain the Maller tank, it is one of the cheapest ships but a tank like a t2 ship...
1. It doesnt tank like a t2 ship. It tanks like a cruiser with a tanking bonus 2. Whop de do, the thing is anemic, and provides no other role. Tank without role is useless.
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DarkFollower
Amarr Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.18 05:02:00 -
[26]
as i see it there's only a few amarr ships and they don't necessary shine -absolution -armaggedon -abbadon -crusader
The rest of the ships will probably do better if fitted with autocannons/missile(khanid)
that's not worth training another gunnery branch for just those ships , i'd say go for projectiles or hibryds in gunnery
Been amarr for 3 years ,lasers aint worth it Cap recharges on PvP ships Suxxor monkey ballzorz!!
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Tzt
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Posted - 2007.09.18 05:24:00 -
[27]
one of the first things I read when i came back to eve a month ago after losing intrest on my first account, was that amarr was bad at pve and worse at PvP and i should train gallente or caldari, i dabbled in caldari but, I couldn't resist the call of playing the underdog :) plus amarr ships are gorgeous, am sure i'll enjoy playing them :)
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Ashaz
Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.09.18 06:39:00 -
[28]
Quote: Like Depp said the game moved from low slot dominance to mid slot dominance.
Don't worry. the ew modules are beeing nerfed away one by one. soon we will have highslot dominance instead.
and about amarr? well. check my siggy __________________________________ Gallente by birth. Amarr by choice. iDrone |
zayanka
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Posted - 2007.09.18 06:42:00 -
[29]
it depends what you want to do in eve.
My main character used to be ammar, then i trained gallente for nano-ishtar and now i fly vagabond.
If you want to fly hacs and Cs in pvp I would definetly recommend minmatar. If you prefer ratting and mission running then gallente is very good especialy with ishtar/domi
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Scav Silver
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.18 07:04:00 -
[30]
Well, the key points are all ready covered.. Low on Med slots, cap isues, no real laser bonus, single role, mostly one dmg type, mostly weak T1 frigs, destroyer and cruisers, ect..
Despite that, if ya spend the time trainin', ya'll love 'em.. Or ya might hate 'em durin' that trainin'..
The Archon and the Avatar a pretty nice ships for the few that can afford 'em and properly trained 'em..
Till that time, patience is a virtue for all Amarrians.. -------------------------------------------------------------
"Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=- "Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=- |
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