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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
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ISD BH Sabaoth
Amarr ISD BH
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Posted - 2007.11.20 22:34:00 -
[481]
Edited by: ISD BH Sabaoth on 20/11/2007 22:33:47
Originally by: YAMPRASH So do we have any progress this is my 4th day without eve, now you know then problem exist, when do you plan fix this ,any official statement to people who pay for game and just want to play or be treat serious
I'm afraid I do not have any progress on this issue as this is the first I have heard of it, I will have a bug reporter take a look into the bug not that it has been clearly reported. I am a volunteer (Not paid staff), part of the ISD division of CCP and as such cannot give you any offical statement. The best I can do is get this bug looked into and as soon as I hear anything from CCP I will get them to post here or I shall do so my self.
Originally by: Zarox Ilphukiir Edited by: Zarox Ilphukiir on 20/11/2007 21:04:54 Done!
The Bug Report is filed. It became pretty massive so give them some time to work through all of it. I would have ben great if there where a response to this threat earlier on, but for whatever reason it wasnt. I concurre to say that this bad customer handling, but keep in mind that the Neerds sitting behind the development machines ususaly does not crawl the Forum for any signs of trouble. I have no Idear what went wrong on theire site to get aware of this problem earlier and take corrective meassures, but I am willing to give the support a fair chance to fix it.
As I know how hard it is to work under mounting pressure I offered them every support I can give on this Issue.
Thanks Sandin for your support, but I dont feel threatened by Sabaoth. However I agree that the game is unplayable.
Kind Regards Zarox
Thank you for reporting it Zarox and thanks for taking the time to look into the bug so extensively.
-------------- Sabaoth Bug Hunter Vice Admiral The ECAID Project
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Murder Love
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Posted - 2007.11.21 02:41:00 -
[482]
Over the past week, besides today, I havent had any disconnects, even when a corp m8 of mine was getting disconnected every 5 minutes. Today I am getting d/c about every 10-20 minutes, sometimes with a C++ error, but not every time.
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Mikal Zackfelt
Gallente Vanguard Frontiers Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.11.21 05:35:00 -
[483]
I am getting the disconnects and C++ errors. They seemed to start for me on the 13th. At first I would only get disconnected when I was idle. Now I am getting disconnected even when there is activity going on. I have reinstalled eve and cleared the cache as well but I am still getting these disconnects. I hope this gets sorted soon... _________________________________ zomg! it's a pointless siggy... |
Zarox Ilphukiir
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Posted - 2007.11.21 07:04:00 -
[484]
Hi Sabaoth,
I used the link your posted first: https://bugs.eve-online.com I filled in all the points with a very brief description. As I clicked the Submit button he showed a reference Number for the Bug report.
Of cause I neither did a backup of what I send in the Report, nor did I put down the Number somewhere.
The Bug report does not show up in "My Bug Reports". Is there any mean to recover what was send to the server from the logs?
I mean he never showed a error like I should have been logged in with my account or something....
If rearly rearly neccessary I would write the Bug Report again (took me like a good hour), but the attached Files are on the Machine at home... So I can upload them only in 8 hours.
Regards Zarox
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Shogun Moto
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Posted - 2007.11.21 07:20:00 -
[485]
Hmmmm if Zarox is right with his analysis, this happens because of CCP's desync hunting/fixing.
Looks like they decreased the time till that final HTTP Error message is received. Question now is, why is the server not answering to clients calls.
In short, when you get the "Connection closed" message is not the time you desync. Best way to check if you are still connected to the server is to type something into the chat or try to change a skill.
If you client has lost connection, he will show the above message.
How to fix it, hmmm, not much we can do, except you have full access to the route to the servers in London, so you can check what is going wrong with the Servers answer.
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ISD BH Sabaoth
Amarr ISD BH
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Posted - 2007.11.21 14:12:00 -
[486]
Edited by: ISD BH Sabaoth on 21/11/2007 14:12:12
Originally by: Zarox Ilphukiir Hi Sabaoth,
I used the link your posted first: https://bugs.eve-online.com I filled in all the points with a very brief description. As I clicked the Submit button he showed a reference Number for the Bug report.
Of cause I neither did a backup of what I send in the Report, nor did I put down the Number somewhere.
The Bug report does not show up in "My Bug Reports".
Is there any mean to recover what was send to the server from the logs?
I mean he never showed a error like I should have been logged in with my account or something....
If rearly rearly neccessary I would write the Bug Report again (took me like a good hour), but the attached Files are on the Machine at home... So I can upload them only in 8 hours.
Regards Zarox
I'm afraid there isnt, if you could please write the bug report again that would be really helpful. I dont know why the bug report didnt get added to our list... very strange. Thanks for the help :)
-------------- Sabaoth Bug Hunter Vice Admiral The ECAID Project
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Zarox Ilphukiir
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Posted - 2007.11.21 14:24:00 -
[487]
Damn....
ok.. I will wirte the report again (hopefuly in the same good quality :))
Is there any way I can ensure that I am logged in when writing the report? On the Report page is no indicater if your logged in or not.
For some reason I need to login again if I browse from the forum to another page like my Petitions. Think the same will hapen if I browse to Bug Report.
Isnt there any mail adress I can send the Report to, just to make sure that it arrives?
Kind Regards Zarox
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YAMPRASH
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Posted - 2007.11.21 14:31:00 -
[488]
Sabaoth have you chance to ask CCP about this runtime error?, Are they working on that , any progress , many friend from my alliance are very angry now , they loosing POS` es structures because cant refuel them ,loosing BPC productions in laboratories, this is huge problem and major issue for CCP to fix, maybe you can contact them and ask for official statement about this, we still don’t have any word from them , 30% my friend have this same disconnect problem and next 15 cant connect to server (almost 5 days), don’t you think than this is a huge proportion. For new CCP customers this will probably looks like unprofessional online game provider so they will go to WoW or other CCP competitions
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ISD BH Sabaoth
Amarr ISD BH
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Posted - 2007.11.21 14:57:00 -
[489]
Edited by: ISD BH Sabaoth on 21/11/2007 14:59:40 Zarox: I'm afraid there isnt a way to tell if you are still logged in, the only thing I can suggest is to copy everything you write into a text file and then login to the bug site and copy/paste the text into the correct fields and submit it.
I will ask QA to take a look at this thread, I am quite sure this issue is being looked into as CCP are very good at listening to their customers, the problem is that CCP are in 'crunch' time at the moment trying to get the patch ready for Christmas. This does not mean that they are not working on this issue, it just means that they dont have as much time as normal to reply to forum threads such as this.
-------------- Sabaoth Bug Hunter Vice Admiral The ECAID Project
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Reneviah
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Posted - 2007.11.21 15:29:00 -
[490]
My client crashes every 5-10 mins (connection lost / c++ runtime error). It started to happen on patch day - Nov 13. I sent my petition on Nov. 15. CCP responded on Nov. 19: download pingplotter, make report and send it to us. I did it by return... twice and nothing happened since then.
Judging by forums there are at least hundreds of players who face same problem now. I am so happy I paid just for one month because this lack of responses and terrible attitude towards customers is beyond believe.
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YAMPRASH
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Posted - 2007.11.21 15:42:00 -
[491]
I understand then they are on edge but you have to understood us we just want to play ,they have to balance now what is more important for them loosing players, because of disconnect or loosing face because of patch delay
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Shogun Moto
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Posted - 2007.11.21 15:53:00 -
[492]
OK guys, I found a workaround. But it is not an easy one.
I figured out, that as this bug happens for me in Windows as well as Linux, on different machines that it could only be the internet connection that I have.
So I forced a corpmate that could play without problems to create a vpn tunnel on his pc and give me the key to access it.
After installing openvpn on my machine and tunneling out to his (you have to keep in mind that vpn tunnel can be blocked but not filtered) eve runs without a single drop for 6h now. And I am using several accounts at the same time for stress testing. Ping is not to bad.
Key information is, the drops are not a bad client from ccp, but your provider that is filtering your traffic. So please focus on the right opponent, your ISP and leave CCP alone.
KTHXBYE
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Zarox Ilphukiir
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:23:00 -
[493]
Id like to confirm you workaround Shogun, but unfortunately I cant.
All symptoms seem to have gone for me. The Client could detect the server status emedialty and Eve is runing very fine since the first login attempt for some time now.
Did they rollback the server site changes last downtime or is it just accidantily? Can you confirm that you still face problems withou VPN?
I am writing the bugreport anyway.
Regards Zarox
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Reneviah
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:40:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Shogun Moto Key information is, the drops are not a bad client from ccp, but your provider that is filtering your traffic. So please focus on the right opponent, your ISP and leave CCP alone.
I am glad you found a way how to get service you pay for. My English is not perfect (sry) so I try it again: lot of fun before Nov 13 patch, no fun AFTER Nov 13 patch, in my opinion patch caused my problems. ISP released the patch? No, CCP did it. My ISP's activity has never disallowed me to play neither DDO, SWG, EQ2, LOTRO nor pre-Nov13 version of EvE. What's is so new and unusual in after-patch EvE that players from different countries cannot play because - as you said - ISPs are filtering their traffic? CCP is responsible, CCP should fix it.
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Zarox Ilphukiir
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Posted - 2007.11.21 16:50:00 -
[495]
@Reneviah I agree. I dont see the ISPs involved in this problem.
It still would be interesting if I am the only one who has not the problem today.
The Bug Report is send and the Tracking ID is 46729. It appears in "My Bug Reports" so it should be fine now.
@Sabaoth would be great if you could give feedback to the Bug report and speed up its process through the filtering, as we lost plenty of time allready.
Thanks Zarox
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Suelle
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Posted - 2007.11.21 17:11:00 -
[496]
I agree. Nothing is wrong with NTL.I was checking for couple of last days ping-average of ping is something about 30-40ms. Definetely CCP fault. Why everything was ok before 13.11.07?
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omgTHE KEY
Shillelagh Corp. Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.21 17:20:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Suelle I agree. Nothing is wrong with NTL.I was checking for couple of last days ping-average of ping is something about 30-40ms. Definetely CCP fault. Why everything was ok before 13.11.07?
Indeed .I've checked everything which I could (icluded NTL lady's knickers) and everything is ok with ping. Why for ex.I can play other online games where is a lot more people online and everything is fine...? Why after issued patches always is some trouble around Eve game...? I hope CCP will finally to plead guilty and repay Real money or ISk because everyone of us is looseing money: miners,manufacturer's ,etc,etc. This is over a week exactly 8 days without playing Eve and I own 3 char which cost me aprox 45 e/month!!!
CCP be courage and say:yes it is our fault!
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ISD BH Sabaoth
Amarr ISD BH
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Posted - 2007.11.21 17:43:00 -
[498]
I have recieved the Bug Report and have assigned it to a Bug Hunter for investigation, our test server (Singularity) has been down since yesterday morning so we cant start proper testing until this comes online again.
I will update when and if we find anything.
-------------- Sabaoth Bug Hunter Vice Admiral The ECAID Project
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Shogun Moto
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Posted - 2007.11.21 18:12:00 -
[499]
Yes, I can reproduce the error on my machine easily. If I close the vpn and remove the route and then start the eve client, the old problems come back.
I am with NTL, and they are filtering the traffic or do some other fancy stuff with the eve packages.
And the people saying, my ping is perfect, it can't be my connection, please listen.
Ping just tells you there is a physical connection and the time the signal needs to travel. It says nothing about the quality of the line. And ping uses a different package then the eve client does.
I am not 100% sure what kind of package eve uses, but i assume it will not be ping packages. I would be interested in what package eve uses for communication. Can we get some info on that please. I dont know why NTL is filtering eve packages, but they do. Maybe other cable provider do the same, or other UPC group members.
To sum it up, CCP is not the reason you have a bad connection, it is your ISP. Want prove, try my workaround and you will see the difference. Your provider can filter your connection as he likes, you can have 8Mbit downloading movies via html and 2kb downloading in p2p networks for instance.
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ISD BH Sabaoth
Amarr ISD BH
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Posted - 2007.11.21 19:00:00 -
[500]
As promised I will share our findings with you. From what we have seen the C++ Runtime error happens when the clientĘs connection is dropped for an unknown reason. The C++ error is the client handling the drop of connection badly but is not the cause of the drop.
We believe this issue is something to do with the Internet Service Provider, more specifically cable providers. The Bug Hunter has attached her findings to the defect made for this bug so that QA can take a closer look into this issue.
-------------- Sabaoth Bug Hunter Vice Admiral The ECAID Project
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Jared Tua'tha
Minmatar The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.21 19:31:00 -
[501]
Just wanted to say a thank you to Sabaoth for getting involved in this. Has been frustrating not hearing anything from CCP on the issue and I know you were under no obligation to help out with this problem.
One exotic dancer to be contracted to you as soon as I can play again!
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omgTHE KEY
Shillelagh Corp. Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.21 20:47:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Shogun Moto Edited by: Shogun Moto on 21/11/2007 18:16:33 Yes, I can reproduce the error on my machine easily. If I close the vpn and remove the route and then start the eve client, the old problems come back.
I am with NTL, and they are filtering the traffic or do some other fancy stuff with the eve packages.
And the people saying, my ping is perfect, it can't be my connection, please listen.
Ping just tells you there is a physical connection and the time the signal needs to travel. It says nothing about the quality of the line. And ping uses a different package then the eve client does.
I am not 100% sure what kind of package eve uses, but i assume it will not be ping packages. I would be interested in what package eve uses for communication. Can we get some info on that please. I dont know why NTL is filtering eve packages, but they do. Maybe other cable provider do the same, or other UPC group members.
To sum it up, CCP is not the reason you have a bad connection (like in poor connection quality and speed), it is your ISP. Want prove, try my workaround and you will see the difference. Your provider can filter your connection as he likes. Full speed html, no speed p2p, no problem. And NTL is known for filtering peer 2 peer networks, maybe EVE slipped in by accident.
So you recon that NTL started filtering CCP pacages at exact date 13.11.07.So in the same dates the other internet providers ex: in Poland,Germany,England,Iceland ,etc,etc, started doing the same thing...filtering...??? At 13.11.07 people from other countrys which are useing other internet providers starts to have the same problem just after issued a new patch. Are you gonna make another conspiracy theory?. Worldwide Filtering Conspiracy Theory?!?
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Nasir Aled
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Posted - 2007.11.21 21:06:00 -
[503]
Edited by: Nasir Aled on 21/11/2007 21:07:12
Originally by: Jared Tua'tha Just wanted to say a thank you to Sabaoth for getting involved in this. Has been frustrating not hearing anything from CCP on the issue and I know you were under no obligation to help out with this problem.
One exotic dancer to be contracted to you as soon as I can play again!
I'd like to second Jared's appreciation of Sabaoth, I'd also like to thank Jared, Shogun Moto, and Zarox for getting us to this stage also. That's goes to everyone else who helped get us all to this point too.
Mucho appreciated.
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Armadios
Amarr Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.21 21:19:00 -
[504]
Originally by: ISD BH Sabaoth
We believe this issue is something to do with the Internet Service Provider, more specifically cable providers. The Bug Hunter has attached her findings to the defect made for this bug so that QA can take a closer look into this issue.
First off, thanks for getting involved Sabaoth.
Secondly, I wouldn't be surprised that the problem lies between our ISPs and CCP. I indeed have a cable provider but I'd really like to know why there's a conflict with my ISP and the connection to CCP's server.
Thirdly, since I disabled Wireless on my router, I haven't had any problems.
If I really had to give my opinion on the issue, I believe our ISPs changed something on their side which your servers don't like. It might be VLAN tagging our something else. The problem probably only happens when the EVE client sends its biggest packets and then, the ISP adds its overhead (VLAN tagging or other) which then fragments the packets before reaching you. Then, I have a hunch that your servers are dropping the fragmented packets and boom we lose connection. I know that fragmented packets are sometimes dropped for security reasons. Is this the case at CCP's ?
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daauneal
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Posted - 2007.11.21 22:10:00 -
[505]
so can the issue with cable providers be solved ? or do i need to get my crappy clearwire connection back as aposed to the much faster ntl one. this seems to be affecting mostly ( from wahat ive seen ) irish costumors as prob most of us have ntl cable. it it affecting cable providers in other countries aswell?
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Zarox Ilphukiir
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Posted - 2007.11.21 22:11:00 -
[506]
Hi,
in regards of the Provider: I dont think that they started to filter traffic. Especialy it wouldnt make any sense to filter specificaly EvEs traffic thats just plain TCP as anything else.
This would not explain why I could play the hole day today without changing my provider.
If this is related to the providers, than I guess the problem depends on wich route a packages travels through the net. This does not need to be the same all the time. Depending on the router hardware, link speed, link load between the routers I guess we then just get a Timing Issue. Maybe the last Patch just lowered a margin a little to low, so that the resulting error is seen more often than it was before.
Lets hear what the Dev Guys find out.
Regards -Zar
BTW: Thx to tha B***h that potkilled me today.
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Maj Woodcock
Minmatar United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2007.11.21 23:08:00 -
[507]
Originally by: ISD BH Sabaoth As promised I will share our findings with you. From what we have seen the C++ Runtime error happens when the clientĘs connection is dropped for an unknown reason. The C++ error is the client handling the drop of connection badly but is not the cause of the drop.
We believe this issue is something to do with the Internet Service Provider, more specifically cable providers. The Bug Hunter has attached her findings to the defect made for this bug so that QA can take a closer look into this issue.
Wow I didn't know we are ALL on the same IPS!!!
Can I have what you are drinking and smoking??
This did not happen until CCP release a patch with a CODE they wrote! So how can you blame the ISP from all most every country and state in the World? The only thing in common is YOUR CODE!
Plaese inlighten me on my misinformation. PROMISES MADE > PROMISES KEPT SO SAY WE ALL
"we will deal with it as harshly as our policies allow." |
Shajimas Claw
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Posted - 2007.11.22 00:09:00 -
[508]
--In the US and using Satellite connection--
I've noticed no improvement over yesterday or any of the previous days going back to the 13th. Still frustrating.
I appreciate someone stepping up to handle this. Thank you.
Lastly, I can understand CCP pushing to make their Trinity deadline, however, I'd rather the game worked properly than get the big new release by deadline. I'm excited about the release, but it'll be more of a 'huh, neat, I guess' than an 'awesome!' if this bug isn't fixed... at least for me.
--much sympathy to those that can't log in and skill-change. I've only experienced that for a comparatively-brief 3hr blip. 8/ --
Shaj
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Armadios
Amarr Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.22 01:23:00 -
[509]
Originally by: daauneal [...] affecting cable providers in other countries aswell?
Canada, Videotron cable provider here.
Originally by: Zarox Ilphukiir
I dont think that they started to filter traffic. Especialy it wouldnt make any sense to filter specificaly EvEs traffic thats just plain TCP as anything else.
you do know that there's other layers than the transport layer, right? ISPs are probably not filtering anything but I wonder on CCP's side though. If it were the ISPs, we would be getting problems with other game servers because as you pointed out, "its only plain TCP traffic".
Btw, from what I gathered from other threads, people have been affected by this problem since 2004. Its not because you've had it happen to you recently that it is due to a patch; there's so many things that can change once the packets leave your computer. Thats the beauty of internet; its called the "web" for a reason.
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Shogun Moto
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Posted - 2007.11.22 07:29:00 -
[510]
Edited by: Shogun Moto on 22/11/2007 07:37:00 All Cable ISP's in the world ... you just have to introduce a security upgrade for isp cable hardware and can be sure that 95% of the ISP's will have it running 24h later.
And if you think the connections are not to blame but ccp, why can I play EVE over a VPN but not directly from home?
OK, the idea with MTU being to high is a good one. I will try this out today and come back with a report.
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