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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.24 18:37:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Kruel But on the other hand it costs billions, so I don't really complain.
You should. The cost of an item is _never_ an excuse for it being powerful. Any player can buy a mothership if they so choose.
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:06:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Motherships are meant to be difficult to kill, for the following reasons: 1. They cost in excess of 25 billion (in excess because 25 bil is just the ship)
Again this is not a valid reason. isk cannot be used as a measure of power. With less than 5 mil sp you can run level 4 missions with no in game risk and earn an unlimited amount of isk.
isk is free. Acquiring a large amount of isk is not an achievement. Therefore it cannot be used to measure power.
To further illustrate the point. Now that HACs have dramatically dropped in cost are they less powerful? Now that a miner 2 cost nothing compared to what they originally sold for do they mine less?
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:19:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden If someone pays 5x more for their pew-pew ship, they should be 5x less likely to die.
So if I pay 250m for a Curse and you pay 50m for a Curse I should be able to beat you 84% of the time? How does that work exactly?
Quote:
Else, if we follow what you're suggesting, all the motherships will be blown to hell and back within a week, and no one will buy new ones because they are a waste of money.
I'm not saying that at all. Please show where I say motherships should not be powerful. My only point is that isk cost cannot be a value of strength.
Quote: Once again, more expensive = harder to die.
So a jaguar that costs 16m has 2x as many hp as a jaguar that costs 8m? Does it do 2x as much damage?
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:47:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Magazaki If I may add, price is an indication of value, but in a completely un-linear fashion- law of diminishing returns.
You're almost there. Price is simply a indication of value to the purchaser. Nothing more. isk cost and combat power are completely disassociated. There is no diminishing returns. There is no nonlinear fashion. There is simple no relation.
Your example is correct but not for any reason involving isk rather simply that CCP designed it that way.
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.24 21:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hayah Theos Now if only they could be honest enough to embrace the fact that the economic resource distribution in the game is fatally flawed too. I mean, just how is it that ANY new force in the game will ever be able to compete with established zero alliances? (And by new, I mean anyone other than the BORG). From reading this thread it is obvious that those here seem to think 25 billion isk is "chump change". How out of touch with reality these veterans are. I am sure it is the BORG's reality, since they have the major resource points of the game in their hip pocket. Eve needs serious game model resource rebalancing or it is doomed to become a shrinking "veteran's only" playpen.
Old I am. Out of touch I am not. 100M a day is easy. 1B a week is doable if you're hardcore, with less than 6M skill points. Heck you could do it with much less than that SP wise but it would take more work to get up to that level.
Those numbers are completely engine money. Created out of nothing. Not dependent on other players in any way. Risking nothing more than a shuttle. Courier mission revamp, lp store, and R&D are all newer and very lucrative. The "BORG" didn't have access to them. Granted the R&D cash is player dependent but it's just icing on the cake. Something to do while you raise massive faction to exploit.
Remember kids it doesn't matter what your corp standing is as long as their faction loves you.
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.24 21:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hayah Theos
Out of touch, YOU ARE!
Tell me again how you achieve the above without T2 BPO's or Capital Ship "NPC market exploit haulers", none of which is available to the AVERAGE pilot of Eve. Then tell us all about how you don't have a death-grip on 10/10 Complexes...
You people are so transparent and self-serving. Your very response bespeaks your BORGness...
Idiot. Did you miss the part where I said less than 6M SP? Did you miss the part where I said using only a shuttle. Both those points mean that T2 BPO or Capital ships are not needed. 10/10 complexes? No one farms those anymore. CCP nerfed them. Please try and know something about the game.
As for how. I already told you. I'll use smaller words. Lvl 4 courier missions pay 2.7M a mission. You can do them in a shuttle. No skills needed. Nothing ever risked. isk is free. Anyone can be "rich".
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.27 18:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Afther your opening phrases any argument you use has lost any value. "isk is free" my *****.
If your isk are soo free equip your whole corporation in officer gear and nuke that mom.
"ISK is free." does not mean everyone gets unlimited isk.
Anyone can acquire large amounts of isk. Only 1 person needed. No character skills are needed. No player skills are needed. No starting cash needed. No risk is involved. It's literally hit the button and receive isk. The only limiting factor to one's wallet is play time. isk gained is directly proportional to the effort you put in. There are literally _no_ external factors that can limit isk acquisition.
Therefore accumulating large amounts of isk is not an accomplishment. Therefore the cost of a ship cannot have any correlation to powerlevel. That's my point in regards to this thread.
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.27 18:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hayah Theos
************** 100 million a day divided by 2.7 million per mission is about 37 missions per day to do that.... Simple math betrays you. I'm not sure anyone reading this believes you. Unless you have multiple accounts to do nothing but run Courier missions, which sounds very much like an exploit to me.
Yeah that sounds right. To do 37 in 6 hours you would have 9.7 minutes per mission. Plenty of time to go 6 hops in a shuttle.
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.27 19:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hayah Theos incoherent offtopic babble
I've calmly responded to your posts. I shouldn't have. I have to remember to not feed the trolls.
Until you have something constructive, *plonk*.
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.08.31 11:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Don't know if it's been said, but couldn't a mothership be killed by...TWO motherships?
No. Also bumping is in no way a solution. The point that all offered solutions fail to account for is cyno. If a mothership pilot sees 30+ all warp in on him he's not going to be there long enough for you to neut him below 75% cap. He'll be gone in the time it takes to alt tab uncloak pop a cyno and alt tab back. You don't fly a 25B isk ship and then sit around and wonder why local jumped by 30.
The only first step is denying the cyno. Everything must come after that. How do you get, at least, 36 large neuts on a mothership before it leaves?
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.09.12 13:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Erotic Irony
Originally by: Boknamar
I don't care one way or another about this mothership debate, but please tell me more about these courier missions that pay 2.7 million ISK. With negotiations at 4, the range of payment I get for courier missions is from around 400,000 to about 1.1 million ISK. The mode seems somewhere around 600,000-700,000.
Probably lowsec agent and maybe he's valuing and additional xxx lp as yyy isk on top of the base 500k.
I don't wish to highjack the thread so this is the last I'll say here.
I've already posted everything about it. I'll go over it again but I'm not spoon feeding. Go spend some time playing with the mission system and learn how it works.
0.1 4/20 courier missions pay 700K isk, with bonus, and 1400-2600 LP. Get the increased LP skill books. LP directly translates to at least 1000 isk per LP. I haven't looked but I hear faction ammo pushes it up higher but you have to rely on the market to convert LP to isk with ammo. That means 1 mission is 2.7 million or more. I cancel anything below 2K LP as it's not worth my time.
Find a station with multiple 4/20 quality courier agents. Cancel any mission with too much cargo, in the wrong direction, doesn't pay enough, or $misc_reason_to_cancel. Load up your multiple missions. Go 2-4 hops out. Go 2-4 hops back. Collect isk. Repeat.
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