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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.25 18:31:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Empyre
don't be so narrow minded, it's not like several people haven't explained this in this thread or many other places. it's not that people are 'too chicken to undock' when an afk cloaker is in system. it's that no one is stupid enough to undock in a hauler or barge because that's all they will uncloak for (except the occasional ratter in an empty system).
And this is different in any other location? Seriously, you don't undock alone to mine or haul in LowSec (even IF there isn't anyone in local), you don't mine alone in HighSec if you are doing anything but jump mining, you don't haul alone in HighSec if you are carrying anything more than a small load of NOS modules you got out of your level 2 missions.
Once again it seems that you want to do things ALONE in perfect safety. Isn't that want 0.0 players always hate HighSec Carebears for? You are in 0.0, protect your stuff and bring friends. Don't expect to be perfectly safe
Quote:
they only uncloak when conditions are favorable to THEM. so getting together a pvp force, setting up traps, etc. are not going to work as you simply state as the obvious. ESPECIALLY when you get a force together, they safe spot, cloak and afk.
Which is EXACTLY what a cloak is supposed to do: Allow you to hide and strike when things are in your favor.
How to "combat" this? Don't fly alone in 0.0 with paper ships.
Quote:
so no, every argument about cloakers does NOT inevitably come to your conclusion. it only comes to that conclusion when one wants to twist the issue to sound like something trivial and easily countered, when in reality it is not.. and has been explained several hundred times.
stop the ignorant speculation when the opposite arguments and conclusions are posted all over in the thread above your post. it only comes across as ignorance or blatantly trying to derail the argument with a contradiction to the very statements you are replying to.
Please explain where my logic is off,to me every anti-cloak post comes right back to the "I can't do anything safely because there is someone that might gank me in 0.0"..... <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.25 18:40:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby "I can't do anything safely because there is someone that might gank me in 0.0".....
In essence, yes. This is exactly what the posts boil down to. However, you have no way of fighting back AT ALL. Normal gankers are blatant, and you can usually give as good as you get, this is a fair situation. AFK cloakers pose the same potential threat, with 0 risk to themselves, and they don't actually need to be a ganker. A cyno alt in a cloaked kestrel could shut an entire system's operations down permanently with 0 effort and 0 risk.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:45:00 -
[183]
Quote: don't be so narrow minded, it's not like several people haven't explained this in this thread or many other places. it's not that people are 'too chicken to undock' when an afk cloaker is in system. it's that no one is stupid enough to undock in a hauler or barge because that's all they will uncloak for (except the occasional ratter in an empty system).
they only uncloak when conditions are favorable to THEM. so getting together a pvp force, setting up traps, etc. are not going to work as you simply state as the obvious. ESPECIALLY when you get a force together, they safe spot, cloak and afk.
so no, every argument about cloakers does NOT inevitably come to your conclusion. it only comes to that conclusion when one wants to twist the issue to sound like something trivial and easily countered, when in reality it is not.. and has been explained several hundred times.
stop the ignorant speculation when the opposite arguments and conclusions are posted all over in the thread above your post. it only comes across as ignorance or blatantly trying to derail the argument with a contradiction to the very statements you are replying to.
Please do not post rubbish about how I am being narrow minded or naive about this. W T F you think it is like in empire for people who are plagued by the rampant suicide ganking? atleast you have some defense, you REALLY shouldnt be flying solo if your in a 0.0 corp. I mean gee listen to what you are saying....in 0.0 you should be 100% safe to fly around solo in a hauler...but somehow suicide ganking in empire it okay?
Like I said the day suicide ganking in empire is addressed is the day you have fotting to stand on regarding cloakers in 0.0.
PS if they uncloak the moment you undock a hauler my guess is they really werent afk per se.....
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:47:00 -
[184]
Quote: Normal gankers are blatant, and you can usually give as good as you get, this is a fair situation.
not in empire when they are suicide gankers. I think the idea is if you have support and there is one guy cloaked in your 0.0 system who cares he knows he cannot attack you safely your support will kill him....
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar Combustion Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:53:00 -
[185]
this is a multiplayer game folks don't forget it
if single dudes are killing you, what is wrong with hanging out with friends instead?
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:15:00 -
[186]
The OP needs a clue. That's all there is to say.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
lin ta
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:38:00 -
[187]
only covops ship should be able to sit cloaked 4ever. other ship types just sitting in system all day afk and then popping online for a quick gank and then off to bed still logged in and cloaked is bs. seen it so many times, just a logon trap with a twist. usually it's the same twits that run around in nano hacs playing chicken. unless they are at 2-1 odds they run. no respect for these guys.
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Kristen Ambrais
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:03:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
and of course their reward for being cloaked is...
yeah nothing
they risk nothing, they gain nothing
ADAPT OR DIE
Risk: None/Nil/Zero/Zip. Reward: Immunity to detection, ability to roam the system looking for easy targets (read: targets with no chance to fight back). Counter: None, you cannot kill a ship that is cloaked. Period.
Also for people *****ing about local being used to tell who is in the system. Unless you are using a capital ship (in that case its usually Cyno fields that give away your exit/entrance) you have to use a stargate to get into a system. These things clearly notify people of entry and exits to the system. A cloaker needs to decloak to use a gate and to move from a gate (briefly anyways).
It'd be nice if we had some ships that were designed as sensor platforms that could probe out these cloaked ships so that AFKing is *NOT* a risk free endeavor.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:29:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Kristen Ambrais
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
and of course their reward for being cloaked is...
yeah nothing
they risk nothing, they gain nothing
ADAPT OR DIE
Risk: None/Nil/Zero/Zip. Reward: Immunity to detection, ability to roam the system looking for easy targets (read: targets with no chance to fight back). Counter: None, you cannot kill a ship that is cloaked. Period.
Also for people *****ing about local being used to tell who is in the system. Unless you are using a capital ship (in that case its usually Cyno fields that give away your exit/entrance) you have to use a stargate to get into a system. These things clearly notify people of entry and exits to the system. A cloaker needs to decloak to use a gate and to move from a gate (briefly anyways).
It'd be nice if we had some ships that were designed as sensor platforms that could probe out these cloaked ships so that AFKing is *NOT* a risk free endeavor.
*buzzer* we have a fail! 1:risk: nothing: untrue! there is a possiblity that they will be uncovered accidentally, its not a big chance but it IS possbile, it becomes even more possible if people are trying to find them
2:reward: immunity to detection: wrong, thats no more a reward than logging out or docking is reward:ability to roam system: WRONG no one afk can do that, seriously what are you smoking
3:counter: none: WRONG, it is actually fairly easy to decloak a target, you only have to get close, space may be big but its not infinite, I've deloaked plenty of afkers in my hunts, and with tracots and jetcans + drones, you can make your ship a whole lot bigger while trawling for them Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon |
lin ta
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:37:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
*buzzer* we have a fail! 1:risk: nothing: untrue! there is a possiblity that they will be uncovered accidentally, its not a big chance but it IS possbile, it becomes even more possible if people are trying to find them
2:reward: immunity to detection: wrong, thats no more a reward than logging out or docking is reward:ability to roam system: WRONG no one afk can do that, seriously what are you smoking
3:counter: none: WRONG, it is actually fairly easy to decloak a target, you only have to get close, space may be big but its not infinite, I've deloaked plenty of afkers in my hunts, and with tracots and jetcans + drones, you can make your ship a whole lot bigger while trawling for them
what are you smoking
1: remote possibilty, accidentally ... good argument 2: immune when you want to be and then pop up when ya have the balls to fight you mean 3: you have not a clue. maybe at a gate when coming through. otherwise cloaked at a ss ... 0 chance. please let us know your technique to handle that if you have one.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:40:00 -
[191]
Originally by: lin ta
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
*buzzer* we have a fail! 1:risk: nothing: untrue! there is a possiblity that they will be uncovered accidentally, its not a big chance but it IS possbile, it becomes even more possible if people are trying to find them
2:reward: immunity to detection: wrong, thats no more a reward than logging out or docking is reward:ability to roam system: WRONG no one afk can do that, seriously what are you smoking
3:counter: none: WRONG, it is actually fairly easy to decloak a target, you only have to get close, space may be big but its not infinite, I've deloaked plenty of afkers in my hunts, and with tracots and jetcans + drones, you can make your ship a whole lot bigger while trawling for them
what are you smoking
1: remote possibilty, accidentally ... good argument 2: immune when you want to be and then pop up when ya have the balls to fight you mean 3: you have not a clue. maybe at a gate when coming through. otherwise cloaked at a ss ... 0 chance. please let us know your technique to handle that if you have one.
*buzz* we have another fail 1: its not even remote, especially if you have been keeping track of said player 2: any different than logging off or docking? nope 3: safespots are only safe while you are cloaked, in this instance he has to deloak to warp, it doesnt take much to probe him, or even SCAN him so you know whereabouts he is Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon |
Colosodian
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:03:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Colosodian on 27/07/2007 01:03:04
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
Counter: None, you cannot kill a ship that is cloaked. Period.
You make an excellent point here - and the other half of the point is that a cloaked ship cannot kill. Period.
As long as a ship is cloaked you are immune to it. Completely invincible. A cloaked ship can quite literally not harm you, at all, ever.
Once a ship is uncloaked, sure, they can kill you, and you can kill them. Which is exactly what you want, right? Everyone being able to fight toe to toe and slug it out honourably.
So this is how it breaks down, for the logic impaired: Can't hurt a cloaked ship, and a cloaked ship can't hurt you. Can hurt an uncloaked ship, and an uncloaked ship can hurt you.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:23:00 -
[193]
misquote! I never said that! Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon |
Sm0kE
Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:47:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Tess Marx The thing that needs to be changed is local chat displaying all the people currently in system. If no ships modules are able to locate anybody in system for any reason, What makes local chat so powerful to allow it show all people in the system? Maybe local chat has an uber and mega strong scanner? Local chat is the real thing that needs to be changed, to be more realistic, it must show only people that talks in local, as broadcasting a message to everybody in the system is a real way to have the other people notice your presence. To the OP: cloaking and going afk makes sense as it works now, forget about it.
Everyone fits cloak... All your base are belong to us. Won't work bud, not without gate jump advisories or something to TELL YOU you have hostiles entering system. ------------------------------------------------ Anyone got a good compression tool for EVE sigs? |
Manaswa
Minmatar Project F3
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Posted - 2007.07.27 03:48:00 -
[195]
Is this a 7 page thread that basically says:
CCP please don't let them scare me?
Wow.
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Caldari34852
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Posted - 2007.08.31 10:51:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Manaswa Is this a 7 page thread that basically says:
CCP please don't let them scare me?
Wow.
Or if enough people whine they will change it they might remove pvp if that were true.
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Grim Savage
Caldari Okkelen Grave Robbers
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Posted - 2007.08.31 11:04:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Grim Savage on 31/08/2007 11:05:38 remove local. problem solved, as noone will know the cloaker are there.
This will help on fleetbattles to, as noone will really know how many are in system, and therefore, more often get ra***ed, making local drop in numbers..
Actually.. it will make a lot more people die, and that will increase price on ships :)
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