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Marisal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:29:00 -
[1]
Thought that would grab your attention but...
tbh its true if you think about it afk cloaking in a system to prevent its use is exactly the same as following a user around and killing them repeatedly both impede a users enjoyment of the game which im my opinion would be classed as harassment or a user or group of users.
Now I know currently the issue is still up in the air but as its starting become a rife form of underhanded tactics so ccp either allow probing of cloaked ships,
OR
Put a threshold point on the duration of a cloak activation after which an overload builds up destroying the cloak. Also set it up so that repeatedly turning the cloak on and off to get around this overload does nothing as long as you remain in the same system.
OR
Simplest put an afk timer on the cloak if someones afk for 5 or more minutes cloak off lines not just turns off but actually off lines or alternatively overloads.
and trust me im saying this as someone who flys covops and recon it will be better this way.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:33:00 -
[2]
First of all, how would being afk in a system prevent people from using it?
And second I alreayd thought cloaks could now be scanned out. So afking in a hostile system is more hazardhous to the guy going afk. (Could be wrong about this, have not heard different since Rev 2 deployment) ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:35:00 -
[3]
/Offers cheese with your whine
Sorry alliance alt--can't have it all can you
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Tandori Tanaka
Tanaka Stuff and Supplies
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:35:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Marisal
Put a threshold point on the duration of a cloak activation after which an overload builds up destroying the cloak. Also set it up so that repeatedly turning the cloak on and off to get around this overload does nothing as long as you remain in the same system.
Excellent idea, let the cloak build up Heat, but not as fast as other overloaded modules. But the first 30min of cloaking should be risk free, otherwise covops and recons would be nerfed beyond usability.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:35:00 -
[5]
no it's not a player going around and kill you. it is not an explot because it is doing something that makes sense, an enemy presence in your system will scare people to death. However you are right in a way. why should this work this way? the point of those ships is to sit in a system and perform recon to the rest of the allaince about what's in that system.
so in other words... local is an exploit. as it is being used i a way that was not originally meant to be used.
it makes sense lore wise to be able to sit in a system and check it out. however with local gone AFK cloakers won't be able to do ****. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:36:00 -
[6]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 24/07/2007 13:36:28
Originally by: Darius Shakor First of all, how would being afk in a system prevent people from using it?
And second I alreayd thought cloaks could now be scanned out. So afking in a hostile system is more hazardhous to the guy going afk. (Could be wrong about this, have not heard different since Rev 2 deployment)
because people go.. AHHHH!!! noooo!!!! run! were doomed!
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=334235 ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
Sartaron
Amarr Quantar Swords SynchronizerZ
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:37:00 -
[7]
Oh no... not again.....
Ok. Again...
Since you won't know whether the cloaker in your system is afk or active, theres absolutely no need to fix anything. It makes no difference to you, as it is now.
When they change it to one of the ways you are suggesting, you will know that the cloaker in your System must be active. So all you want is making the game easier and more predictable.
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Marisal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Darius Shakor First of all, how would being afk in a system prevent people from using it?
And second I alreayd thought cloaks could now be scanned out. So afking in a hostile system is more hazardhous to the guy going afk. (Could be wrong about this, have not heard different since Rev 2 deployment)
It mysteriously didn't make the patch go read the patch notes
and it prevents people from playing properly the exact same way following someone around does.
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Marisal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: MotherMoon no it's not a player going around and kill you. it is not an explot because it is doing something that makes sense, an enemy presence in your system will scare people to death. However you are right in a way. why should this work this way? the point of those ships is to sit in a system and perform recon to the rest of the allaince about what's in that system.
so in other words... local is an exploit. as it is being used i a way that was not originally meant to be used.
it makes sense lore wise to be able to sit in a system and check it out. however with local gone AFK cloakers won't be able to do ****.
True possible the defining factor really is local cus if ya don't know he's there then nada issue but he won't know anyones there really either so he won't hang around. Your trying to use role playing to validiate afk cloaking which depending on how u interpret the terms of service wouldn't make a bit of difference because using role play as an exscuse for performing an action that harrases another player is still a breach of tos.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Marisal
Originally by: Darius Shakor First of all, how would being afk in a system prevent people from using it?
And second I alreayd thought cloaks could now be scanned out. So afking in a hostile system is more hazardhous to the guy going afk. (Could be wrong about this, have not heard different since Rev 2 deployment)
It mysteriously didn't make the patch go read the patch notes
and it prevents people from playing properly the exact same way following someone around does.
OK thanks for the info. I didn't hear about that.
But still, your point is no clearer on why you think it makes the game unplayable. Just because people think 'Uhh-ohh, I might get killed here' is hardly a fault in the game. It is a fault in the player. The same can be said simply about low sec piracy or spotting a small wave of alt corp frigates in high sec. Or simply logging into the game.
'Well I guess I might get shot at, so I won't bother playing today.'
It is not an argument. And as for 'properly' there is hardly such a thing in eve. There is just how you want to play it, and how everyone else wants to. If you mean in 0.0 a player can sit cloaked and decloak ant any point to kill a random solo player and hence scare them of the posibility, then they should just travle in a gang. If they are not able to then that is simply their issue not a fault in the game itself. Anything could get them killed by flying anywhere solo.
As for the cloaker, that is just use of a tactic. It might be lame in it's own way but this is the entire reason why cloaks were put in game, as well as combat effective ships that can use them. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal |
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:44:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/07/2007 13:46:04 You guys would have more luck asking for cloaks to give agression rather than any funny ideas about "destroying the cloak" or whatever.
If cloaks give agression - then the cloaker had better hope for a stable net connection while he is busy watching tv.....
Combine this with a prober and the ISK farmer cannot logoff cloaked at a safe otherwise he will get probed out and get shot due to agression timers. --
Billion Isk Mission |
u die
Minmatar Sugarcane Technologies
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:45:00 -
[12]
Yes, im in a "nerf cloak" whine topic! Hi mom. ________________________________________________
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Marisal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:51:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Darius Shakor
Originally by: Marisal
Originally by: Darius Shakor First of all, how would being afk in a system prevent people from using it?
And second I alreayd thought cloaks could now be scanned out. So afking in a hostile system is more hazardhous to the guy going afk. (Could be wrong about this, have not heard different since Rev 2 deployment)
It mysteriously didn't make the patch go read the patch notes
and it prevents people from playing properly the exact same way following someone around does.
OK thanks for the info. I didn't hear about that.
But still, your point is no clearer on why you think it makes the game unplayable. Just because people think 'Uhh-ohh, I might get killed here' is hardly a fault in the game. It is a fault in the player. The same can be said simply about low sec piracy or spotting a small wave of alt corp frigates in high sec. Or simply logging into the game.
'Well I guess I might get shot at, so I won't bother playing today.'
It is not an argument. And as for 'properly' there is hardly such a thing in eve. There is just how you want to play it, and how everyone else wants to. If you mean in 0.0 a player can sit cloaked and decloak ant any point to kill a random solo player and hence scare them of the posibility, then they should just travle in a gang. If they are not able to then that is simply their issue not a fault in the game itself. Anything could get them killed by flying anywhere solo.
As for the cloaker, that is just use of a tactic. It might be lame in it's own way but this is the entire reason why cloaks were put in game, as well as combat effective ships that can use them.
By the same reasoning cloaking ships should have to travel in gangs to perform combat, sorry but even though eve is team orientated you can't have people holding your hand all the time, obviously you've never experience having a cloaker in the heart of your territory and not been able to do a sodding thing about it that is what i call unbalanced there is no direct counter to cloaks as there should be most aspect that affect combat in eve have counters ecm vs sensor boosters, speed boosters vs webbers, warp drive vs scrams, weapons vs shields/armor and then we come to cloaks vs hmm nothing... Cloaks were put in game long before combat capable craft designed to use them were put in and adding those created an inblance yet to be resolved
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Gner Dechast
Gallente Flashman Services
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:53:00 -
[14]
Erm... I don't see how your title for this post is correct.
Nothing seems to indicate that the policy against AFK cloaking has changed. ...or can you show me where this policy change was laid out?
Don't get me wrong, I don't much approve AFK cloaking either, but me disliking it doesn't make it an exploit, like you claim in your title.
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Marisal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gner Dechast Erm... I don't see how your title for this post is correct.
Nothing seems to indicate that the policy against AFK cloaking has changed. ...or can you show me where this policy change was laid out?
Don't get me wrong, I don't much approve AFK cloaking either, but me disliking it doesn't make it an exploit, like you claim in your title.
Welcome to the world of attention grabbing titles
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Ssoraszh Tzarszh
Minmatar Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:56:00 -
[16]
Your topic is a lie.
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Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:58:00 -
[17]
Griefing and harassment are part of the game. Man if I had 5 isk for everytime someone did something to me just to be a ****! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Isan Danderoda
Strix Armaments and Defence Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Marisal
Originally by: Gner Dechast Erm... I don't see how your title for this post is correct.
Nothing seems to indicate that the policy against AFK cloaking has changed. ...or can you show me where this policy change was laid out?
Don't get me wrong, I don't much approve AFK cloaking either, but me disliking it doesn't make it an exploit, like you claim in your title.
Welcome to the world of attention grabbing titles
Last I checked impersonating ISD is frowned upon in the forums, and that title is far more impersonating ISD than afk cloaking is harassment.
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Tess Marx
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:00:00 -
[19]
The thing that needs to be changed is local chat displaying all the people currently in system. If no ships modules are able to locate anybody in system for any reason, What makes local chat so powerful to allow it show all people in the system? Maybe local chat has an uber and mega strong scanner? Local chat is the real thing that needs to be changed, to be more realistic, it must show only people that talks in local, as broadcasting a message to everybody in the system is a real way to have the other people notice your presence. To the OP: cloaking and going afk makes sense as it works now, forget about it.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Marisal
Originally by: MotherMoon no it's not a player going around and kill you. it is not an explot because it is doing something that makes sense, an enemy presence in your system will scare people to death. However you are right in a way. why should this work this way? the point of those ships is to sit in a system and perform recon to the rest of the allaince about what's in that system.
so in other words... local is an exploit. as it is being used i a way that was not originally meant to be used.
it makes sense lore wise to be able to sit in a system and check it out. however with local gone AFK cloakers won't be able to do ****.
True possible the defining factor really is local cus if ya don't know he's there then nada issue but he won't know anyones there really either so he won't hang around. Your trying to use role playing to validiate afk cloaking which depending on how u interpret the terms of service wouldn't make a bit of difference because using role play as an exscuse for performing an action that harrases another player is still a breach of tos.
true, but don't we harrase players all of time in eve? I mean it just feels like AFK cloaking isn't excessive as far as being mean goes. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
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Marisal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:01:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Marisal on 24/07/2007 14:01:34
Originally by: Isan Danderoda
Originally by: Marisal
Originally by: Gner Dechast Erm... I don't see how your title for this post is correct.
Nothing seems to indicate that the policy against AFK cloaking has changed. ...or can you show me where this policy change was laid out?
Don't get me wrong, I don't much approve AFK cloaking either, but me disliking it doesn't make it an exploit, like you claim in your title.
Welcome to the world of attention grabbing titles
Last I checked impersonating ISD is frowned upon in the forums, and that title is far more impersonating ISD than afk cloaking is harassment.
at no point do i impersonate one plus I have none of the isd markings on my forum post
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Marisal bviously you've never experience having a cloaker in the heart of your territory and not been able to do a sodding thing about it
During the CVA attack on U'K space they had at least 1 alt and maybe a second one afk cloaked in 9uy at all times when they took our first outpost. I do know what it is like. And also building up to that attack IAC camped the empire pipe to Derelik in small squads of recons as well for the better part of 2 weeks evading our gangs and kiling solo people.
I do know what it is like.
And I do agree that afk cloaks should maybe slowly take damage after say 15 mins or whatever so their cloak shuts down. Or be scanable after a certain time frame has passed forcing people under cloak to actually play instead of hide in enemy territory.
I just don;t agree with it being called an 'exploit' on a rash whim and whine. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal |
ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:03:00 -
[23]
Edited by: ToxicFire on 24/07/2007 14:05:39 Meh another whiner
but the overload idea is fairly good perhaps with different penalties.
I find it ammusing though that there was discussion in dev blogs of cloaked ships been probeable but thats rather vanished would like to see a dev comment on this. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Stitcher
Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:04:00 -
[24]
AFK cloakers:
They can't kill anyone.
They can't go anywhere.
They can't do anything.
Nobody's even FLYING them....
...And yet somehow they can lock down an entire systems for weeks on end.
Seriously, get over it. So there's the possibility of a stealth bomber or stealth sniper BS or something like that uncloaking and popping one of your haulers. Just get on with your daily lives....
***
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Kolwrath
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:06:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Kolwrath on 24/07/2007 14:06:11 Your topic is a complete lie. Your credibility now equals zero. Please go back under your rock carebear troll.
This has been discussed in a thousand threads to death. Read those and then go sit in a corner and think about what you have done.
Bad Troll! Bad! Bad!
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Marisal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Darius Shakor
Originally by: Marisal bviously you've never experience having a cloaker in the heart of your territory and not been able to do a sodding thing about it
During the CVA attack on U'K space they had at least 1 alt and maybe a second one afk cloaked in 9uy at all times when they took our first outpost. I do know what it is like. And also building up to that attack IAC camped the empire pipe to Derelik in small squads of recons as well for the better part of 2 weeks evading our gangs and kiling solo people.
I do know what it is like.
And I do agree that afk cloaks should maybe slowly take damage after say 15 mins or whatever so their cloak shuts down. Or be scanable after a certain time frame has passed forcing people under cloak to actually play instead of hide in enemy territory.
I just don;t agree with it being called an 'exploit' on a rash whim and whine.
aye sorry yuh exploit is probably the wrong term for it but it is unbalanced currently and i can see you agree with that.
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Gutsani
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:10:00 -
[27]
you have been in ISS, right?
they tried to claim this also
if you follow this logic, alliance warfare is an exploit, war decing is an exploit and pvping is an exploit.
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Marisal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:11:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kolwrath Edited by: Kolwrath on 24/07/2007 14:06:11 Your topic is a complete lie. Your credibility now equals zero. Please go back under your rock carebear troll.
This has been discussed in a thousand threads to death. Read those and then go sit in a corner and think about what you have done.
Bad Troll! Bad! Bad!
Wasn't an active thread, The talk of cloaked ships becoming probeable had vanished after the devblogs, your more of a troll by trying to shut down a thread about a topic you obviously don't want talked about afk cloaker per chance mebe?
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Marisal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gutsani you have been in ISS, right?
they tried to claim this also
if you follow this logic, alliance warfare is an exploit, war decing is an exploit and pvping is an exploit.
Anything that isn't with in the realm of how the game was expected to be played could be an exploit. In my opinion afk cloaking wasn't something the devs really expected or wanted.
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Shenko Minara
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Marisal that is what i call unbalanced there is no direct counter to cloaks
Other than the gimping the locking statistics of the cloaking ship and giving them a targeting delay. Oh and that only the covops ships can warp while cloaked.
Generally, an AFK clocked ship alone in your territory is at a severe combat disadvantage. Just remember that 0.0 isn't Empire. It isn't safe and anyone could be hiding around the next corner. If you're worried about losing your mining ship to a recon, hire an escort while you mine, or maybe organise a group mining op that includes a defence gang.
Either way, cloaks aren't overpowered, and until you come up with a good argument as to why they are, you should refrain from posting as such. -- 99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you. |
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