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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.09 23:46:00 -
[1]
no empire has established lines of communication there so only make people show up if they talk as a rudimentary communications service instead of - player has join system - notification ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.10 00:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: SiJira on 10/07/2007 00:31:25
Originally by: Arhes Branwin Alright, you can remove local from 0.0 when I can turn jump gates on and off..If I have soverignty why would I want people moving in and out of my space (or my constellation) when I didn't have the forces to prepare for them.
you need to at least maintain sovereignty 1 to have the option of turning local on in your system
dont forget kids there is lots of 0.0 with no alliance control or presence
____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.10 01:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Princess Voodoo shut the hell up with this idea, it's stupid
this is the best reason to implement it
cause you whine! ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.12 23:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:12:36 Edited by: Wayward Hooligan on 10/07/2007 23:11:30 How To Fix Local In 1 Easy Step:
Add a module to the game.
High slot, low fitting requirements.
Passive module that is always active.
If its fitted to your ship you do not show up local and you cannot see anything in local.
So if you jump into a system with 10 people in local and you have the module equipped they wouldn't see you in local and you wouldn't see them.
You couldn't talk in local or see what they say either.
Players would still show up on scanner like normal.
Examples of how would this affect gameplay:
Roaming gang:
All scouts would equip this module. They'd enter a system together and wouldn't show up on local. Therefore they wouldn't scare away anyone. The downside is you have no idea how many hostiles are in local, if any.
The rest of the gang would not equip this module. They'd wait for word of a tackle and then jump in normally.
Fleet:
You could disguise the size of your fleet with this module. Half your gang has one the other half doesn't. You jump in 100 people but local count only goes up by 50. Would really make good scouts more important.
Defending your space:
Entire gangs could stealth through your system but its a double edged sword because they won't know how many you have either.
Would require people to actually fly around and defend their space rather than sitting docked all day and smacking in local like they do now.
Defense gangs of Recons would be deadly. Don't show up in local or on 360. Sit 20 of em around a gate and gank the **** out of everyone who jumps in.
Personally I think this would be the best way to fix the local problem.
Makes ships that really want stealth sacrifice something valueable, ie a high slot.
brilliant idea for a module ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.13 13:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Chucky Like AFK/Pink Ninja cloakers aren't lame enough, this would set up more lame tactic's
what would it setup exactly? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.14 14:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Since both sides are pretty polarized on this issue, perhaps a compromise would be beneficial. What if you had local still, but it was sort of a delayed mode.
I was imagining something like this: Linkage
This way, 0.0 territory holders can identify threats and fleets, and defend against smaller gangs that stay in one place too long or are reported in an intel channel. Smaller gangs get a chance to attack unwary NPC'ers and other people.
Sadly, it does not address the macro NPC'ing raven issue but it's a step in the right direction I think.
thats like a 90/10 compromise cause ultimately it does little difference for those who want 0.0 local removed - with the exception of sovereignty ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.14 18:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen
Originally by: SiJira thats like a 90/10 compromise cause ultimately it does little difference for those who want 0.0 local removed - with the exception of sovereignty
Convincing the majority to outright remove 0.0 local will be difficult, and so you're going to have to settle for less, at least initially. I'm in favor of removing local entirely also, but I'd be willing to accept less in what is the first step of what are hopefully many to eventually have local removed.
its fine having local in highsec to encourage those that dont like it to go away and its fine having local in lowsec because its still empire maybe your idea for lowsec could be apllied
for 0.0 it needs to be fully removed and only reinstated for sovereignty through some cheap module that is anchored at outposts ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.14 21:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Eskalin
Originally by: Ryas Nia nerf Sijira for useless threads.
/signed
you are right ill start making bob threads and i quit threads and whine bout lag threads ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.14 22:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Coasterbrian Allow me to explain something:
People have been screaming for the removal of local chat since before I started playing. I started playing in March of 2004. If CCP hasn't done it already, it's not going to happen.
Making a lot of crap threads about it isn't going to change that fact.
just like heat didnt happen
hmmm ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Leviathani Darkri Edited by: Leviathani Darkri on 14/07/2007 22:35:19 Edited by: Leviathani Darkri on 14/07/2007 22:26:18 Gate moniter probe...limited duration, would give a real time update of gate activations within it's range. Perhaps a 1 au range (possible to cover multiple gates if close), and would give standard overview information such as shiptype, shipname, pilot, etc...Would say that the pilot jumped out or in.
lvl 1 skill allows anyone to launch one in nuetral or npc space, the higher the level of sovereignty the higher the skill needed to deploy. Perhaps with the highest level of sovereignty it would be impossible for anyone but the controlling alliance to deploy one. In alliance space, the info would broadcast to all alliance members and perhaps allowed blues.
You could also perhaps put a limit on the number you can have active at any one time...say two or perhaps three, because of the cpu needed to analyze the realtime info.
Kinda like an advanced motion detector...
your idea is intriguing ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 23:06:00 -
[11]
remove it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 04:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin Keep it exactly the way it is. I don't see anything remotely wrong with the way it is, given the way the gates handle everything and you actually activate them to move between systems. and yes, I do enjoy its protection it grants if I'm ratting in my alliance's 0.0 area and I can be alone, and easily tell if someone appears in space to know to get to dock instantly.
you dont own the gate so you dont deserve the information ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 18:15:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Edited by: Vmir Gallahasen on 16/07/2007 06:27:47
Originally by: DGWabbit I know how to pvp and I dont care if local is there because I still kill **** loads of people, even those pesky macro-farmer-isk-selling-cloaking-ravens-of-death.
I checked your killboard, and not a single one of those ravens had a cloak fitted, and none had the traditional werwrsfdsd macro name. It wouldn't be unreasonable to say you haven't killed a single macro cloaking raven since at least october 2006, and possibly before that as well since that's as far as the killboard goes.
Originally by: DGWabbit Petition: Any low-sec pirates/low-sec miners/low-sec & hi-sec residents should have no say, what so ever, in local discussions.
Why does their opinion not count but yours does? They might not have the same experience with local as regular 0.0 goers, but they use empire local as a way of tracking pirates, suspicious people, and war targets too.
Originally by: DGWabbit Basically, ur telling everyone else to adapt by spamming the **** out of the scan button constantly because apparently...it adds to the ****ing game. Anyone else not notice how ******** that is?
If you refer to my idea earlier, spamming the scan button all the time would be unnecessary. And local needs to be removed because it detracts from the game. You have to take the benefits into consideration -- sure, removing local will have some disadvantages, but I think its benefits far outweigh those.
Finally, also in reference to your "spam the scan button", unless you're a remarkably unskilled 0.0 hunter, you do this anyway all the time. When I'm looking for targets, the scanner is my #1 offensive and defensive tool and I spam it without a second thought.
Oh, and when you make a bunch of statements (opinions), you should have some facts or arguments to back them up. Explain WHY you think removing local won't enhance gameplay, for example.
-Edit- Just in case I did make a mistake DGWabbit, I'll list my sources Ooh Shiny alliance kb: http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=705 Aftermath Alliance kb: http://aftermath-alliance.com/killboard/ Divine Retribution kb: (couldn't locate, website down)
a+ post ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.16 18:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: DGWabbit rabble
so you killed an odd farmer raven or two big deal? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.18 04:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Roger Douglas Remove local?!?! How therefore shall I enjoy the smack?
Smack- and laughing at it. The reason for local.
constellation? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.18 14:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: eXtas no local = party time
yea its a good thing ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.18 16:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hunin I don't really care if local is there or not. I think the only way it will be harder is for fleet battles. You won't get an instant count on the opposing fleet's strength. Fleet movement will be much harder to track as well.
Why won't it matter for ratting and/or mining? 1) All ratter and miners will be fully aligned and move at least 30km away from the warp in point. 2) Hostile warps in. 3) Ratter/miner warps out in 1 sec if fully aligned or 10 sec if not. 4) Hostile drops probes. 5) Ratter/miner either cloaks or checks the gate at 150km bookmark.
It will definitely enhance gate camps. Now you have to camp on the jump in point because the hostile knows your strength in the system. With no local you can place mobile bubbles around the warp in gate and gank everyone. It makes gate camping a lot easier.
Same way for fleet battles. You just need a covops on the gate and people can trickle in to a station system. The hostiles don't know your real strength even if someone is watching one gate. They don't know if you jumped out another gate.
With no local, I think spies will be much more important for alliances to determine when someone is preparing to attack.
It will also reduce the ability of covops to spy on enemy fleets because you don't know if they are still in the system or moved to another system. Again you'll spend 1 to 5 minutes probing and/or scanner use before determining nobody is actually in the system.
The biggest carebear change I see is probes will increase significantly in value.
Personally I think removing local will promote alliances to maintain gate camps. You won't need a dictor or a large bubble for effective gate camps.
all good results ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.18 19:55:00 -
[18]
Originally by: DGWabbit Edited by: DGWabbit on 18/07/2007 18:19:36
Originally by: DGWabbit My point is that, removing local would do nothing but add an unneeded complication to a game. [/quote
It would be to difficult for you, so you don't want it.
Not so much it being 'difficult' versus tedious. Even if they removed all the names in local and just left a number...that would be sufficient. But removing it entirely just seems a bit overboard, even with constellation chats..you'll still see numbers and faces, just a broader 'local' and another chat window to have open. It does make the game easier...i'd rather spend 2 seconds knowing if its worth spending 2 minutes warping around looking for a target. I have a life, I prefer not to waste time in a game simply because it 'adds' content in the end =p Most roaming gangs take 2 hours...to spend 4-5 hours for the same result just doesnt feel worth the change.
The game was built in with local...yet ccp claimed they didnt intend to make it an intel tool...but that's what it is. Just as I never intended to hurt people's feelings...it happens.
If local were removed, despite being in the game since I can remember except when patches borked it up, it would serverely hamper the server community as a whole. It's a tool a variety of people use for their own reasons, i'd be like taking the wheel away from us. People 'adapt' or 'quit'...If you really dont care which of the two people prefer...you might find yourself without much of a game.
In the end there are different arguements here...people who carebear, people who pirate, people who play at the corp level, others at the alliance, and others at the alt level. Each want different things, but I'm assuming it's going to stay the way ccp designed it. Otherwise it might bite them in the butt.
**that one time with no local after rev1 came out was cool, just wish I coulda flown a recon, arazu/curse, at the time :(**
its always the carebears ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.23 01:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: *****slap N O
yes ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 02:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
By this point in the game cloaked ships will be detectable via a system scanning array, perhaps configured for alliance use (via remote link? mmm luvly)
no this is not an option ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
|
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.23 03:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
By this point in the game cloaked ships will be detectable via a system scanning array, perhaps configured for alliance use (via remote link? mmm luvly)
no this is not an option
thanks for your detailed explanatory post, there is no way i would've understood your complex arguments without such a thorought narrative.
try to click at the general discussion forum and look through the topics once a week for threads similar to this
____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 03:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Vyyrus And for SiJira why do you keep on having to make a thread for the same thing over and over?
Because he dosn't understand the implications. Or that the devs have stated several times that they won't change local to work differently in different places, and indeed have no plans to revise it at all..
she - and the devs have said many things and done many others stop posting with your limited knowledge and hypocrisy thank you
____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 06:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Zalathar a. CCP does not want to scare people away from 0.0, so they wont nerf local, as it scares people away from 0.0 and lowsec
b. Gates would log who comes through them.
c. Remeber the mass wining when their was no local?
d This game should be fun, not a matter of spamming the scanner
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Local is the main cause of BLOBAGE... the fact that you know exactly how many your enemy has estimulate you to brign a few more to be sure to outnumber them. They see that and do same etc..
nerf local and FC will have to take more chances and more fun will happen.
Controlling the borders is easy. Just keep constellation chat, its enough for that.
lol, that is just wrong. If you dont know whats there, make a bigger blob. safety in numbers concept. Blobs will become bigger, and roam around everywhere, patrolling, and detracting from a true war effort.
yes yes everything will make blobs bigger - no really i dont think you read the thread it has nothing to do with losec ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 08:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vyyrus No local nerf would give gankers the ability now to be twice as invincible even with cloaks. Its never going to change so stop making topics about it. There is no sticky on local nerf so even dev's don't care.
if there was a sticky posts would be there - this is general discussion and if you dont like the idea and have nothing to say the x is at top right ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 08:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: BluOrange
Originally by: Goumindong
An automatic overview scanner seems really great until you realize that some ships can warp while cloaked.
Yeah, that would mean that some people might be able to set up some kind of a surprise attack in an expensive ship that has devoted a highslot to a cloak. Shocking stuff
Meanwhile, the pro-ratter and pro-miner groups still don't seem to have an awareness of just how badly removing local would hurt roaming ganksquads.
to guys like goum 0.0 is not relentless and dangerous its where you isk farm and you deserve safety for - uhm well he never explained that - all he said was if you have a group in 0.0 you deserve safety from anythign except a force significantly bigger ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 09:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh Removing local will only aid the 'gankers'.
I'm up for removing local
IF
All map statistics 'Jumps in last hour' 'Pilots in space' 'Pilots docked' 'ships destroyed' 'npc's destroyed' are also removed.
That will take away ANY tool to find people and will make searching and running away equaly hard.
unless your prepared to agree with that, go away.
thats fine - thats the point of removing local ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 09:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
So your basis for saying its never going to happen is the whining of others on the forum?
Some facts for you: The guy in charge of balance 'TomB' replied to a question on probes after they were released, saying that yes - probes for detecting cloaked ships were in the works.
And Oveur has said many times that he does not like the way local is used as an intellingence tool.
So what were your arguments exactly? Because I'm still flummoxed.
yes it has also been said by them that specialized cloaks will - not - be scannable - probably - or detectable - all others not using the best cloak will be eventually but it is getting done the right way and not coming out within a week just because of some whiners
im not sure you even clicked on the link cause then it seems you think anyone who posts in gd is whining and then it means none of what you post has any sense to it at all ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 15:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: SiJira on 23/07/2007 15:04:39
Originally by: R3dSh1ft i will stop posting in your threads because you don't seem to want to have a productive discussion. I don't think everybody in GD is whining, I just think you are.
saying things like that and not contributing to the topic at hand is fairly useless - if you want personal insults i think you need to go to caod
Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh
If local is removed, but for example the map tools for finding people of their activity is not there will be no more balance.
As you call yourself 'Hunters' i see very little will to actualy 'hunt' but only the reversed evolution of 'i want my kill, and i want it served on a silver platter'.
the tools should be removed to - they are a direct log of local - its hunters and hunted and i dont think you have actually tried to scan blindly for dozens of systems at a time...
Originally by: Kage Psychodin The minute we gain some remote sensor tools to check on gates or that we can tell beyond a *Whrr*! of a gate being activated, then maybe just maybe we can get rid of local. But then anything that cloak warps would be broken beyond belief.
No offense, Devs may have stated local in 0.0 is an unintentional side effect, but I can't see 0.0 being even remotely the same. Especially given even secure mining and ratting, is absolutely the most boring thing in the world. Let alone not even close to as effective as it should be, if its split between the actual ratter and the guard. Tell you what? the minute they make dozens of changes of modules, ships, and weapons that allow effective ratting and PvP action in one ship, (including level 4 missions), then we'll see about removing local in 0.0. Until then, Just rot and whine, it won't happen.
where to start with this one - if local is removed according to this idea then you dont get a replacement - you dont get to hear a whirr or a flash or a warning that someone is approaching gate from the system next to you - the safety net is removed and its like everyone is using a claok - consider yourself lucky and put yourself in the other guys shoes to see how hard it is to find you - it is supposed to be dark and dangerous and local makes this dark and dangerous place like a street alley lit up by stadium lights
i agree that secure mining and ratting is not as effective as it should be - the rats are too easy to tank - just remember that this is a mmo game and you dont get to do everything effectively in just 1 type of ship
Originally by: Ephemeron Completely false. I'm certain that if CCP decide to investigate, they will find that people who actively seek pvp die much more often than the carebears who want to make isk and avoid pvp. I'm willing to bet $1000 on it.
Currently, by use of local, stabs, cloaks, the isk farmer can operate with about 95% safety in 0.0. That 5% risk being pure dumb luck of random bad stuff happening.
QFT
____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.07.23 16:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Elmicker You do, of course, realise that a covert ops or interceptor could cover that 15AU in approximately 1.1 seconds? Good luck aligning in your mining barge!
No local = no carebears.
That is false. It takes cov ops or inty at least 10 seconds to accelerate, enter warp, exit warp, then lock. The game won't let inty start lock before ship fully stopped warping.
This is not counting the time it takes to use directional scanner.
The 0.0 ratters will die more often, but hardly all the time.
you mean they dont insta appear? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.23 19:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: BluOrange
Originally by: Goumindong
An automatic overview scanner seems really great until you realize that some ships can warp while cloaked.
Yeah, that would mean that some people might be able to set up some kind of a surprise attack in an expensive ship that has devoted a highslot to a cloak. Shocking stuff
Meanwhile, the pro-ratter and pro-miner groups still don't seem to have an awareness of just how badly removing local would hurt roaming ganksquads.
Are you unable to freaking use the directional scanner? Lord, its not that hard. It takes 2 freaking minutes at the most to find and scan down a target at a belt. It takes 0 seconds to 30 seconds to confirm a target is in system.
It takes much more effort to defend against such an attack. Especialy with cloaks. And oh lord, the whole entire high slot. What a sacrifice!
yes it is a sacrifice believe it or not ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.23 23:30:00 -
[31]
Edited by: SiJira on 23/07/2007 23:30:00
Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh
Yup, and thats hard to do aint it? Matter of fact is that people who are ratting are busy doing that not looking at map stats all day. A hunter now only needs to download a copy of truesec, look at ratkills/people in space/jumps last hour to determine a good target.
ofc, this does not mean 100% guarantee kill, but remove local and the chance to get away becomes miniscule agains a covert ops or recon. Warp in bad guy after ratter is scrambled and 100% killrate against 0% loss is generated.
If you truly want 0.0 to be dark, also remove all otehr stats aand you have to _look_ for people manualy. It will still be easy as **** as tehre are only ever so few good ratting systems anyway.
The aggro timer would be a nice addition, if you mean logof timer, and i assume you do. if that would be the same as the normal shoot player = 15 minutes noone would ever log off inside a belt/plex.
removing local would make 0.0 harder for both the hunter and hunted - thats the idea
work for your rewards ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.23 23:45:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Goumindong
This is false. Since you seem too dense to get this the first time, lets go over it again. The hunter/hunted relationship is a competitive game with two players. Any instance that makes it harder for one to win, must necessarily make it easier for the other to win. You cannot make it harder for both parties at the same time when only affecting a directly competitive mechanism.
It would be much easier for the hunter. Tons easier for the hunter.
Now, the game is how quickly the hunted is able to leave system/cloak/log/safe. Without local the hunter still has a method with which to detect ships, but the hunted does not.
This is because the hunter is targeting a specific instance and the hunted is not.
you havent had much experience in hunting - have you? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.24 02:31:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote: removing local would make 0.0 harder for both the hunter and hunted - thats the idea
To elaborate on that idea a bit - the reason why it becomes harder for both hunter and hunted is because both of them will need to learn new methods on intelligence gathering. Things become more complex for both as they can't rely on local chat to spoon feed you information.
Both types, hunter and hunted, can get advantages by doing information gathering better/faster than the other. It depends on what kind of effort or team work they put into it.
and thats what a mmorpg is all about of course the ratters and miners could just prepare ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.24 05:17:00 -
[34]
goum is a fine example of a 0.0 carebear ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.24 05:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Aldir Rundal
Originally by: SiJira goum is a fine example of a 0.0 carebear
Haha, He presents a clear and honest argument that bests yours and you care only to insult him.
Congrats goum, you win.
you mean where he argues with himself cause he skips all the opposing points or twists them out of context? yea he wins - and you are a successful man for sure - i hear flattery gets you far ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.24 05:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Aldir Rundal
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Aldir Rundal
Originally by: SiJira goum is a fine example of a 0.0 carebear
Haha, He presents a clear and honest argument that bests yours and you care only to insult him.
Congrats goum, you win.
you mean where he argues with himself cause he skips all the opposing points or twists them out of context? yea he wins - and you are a successful man for sure - i hear flattery gets you far
I hear insults get you about half as far SiJira. Quit posting useless drivel please.
Local has been a part of Eve for a very long time. It's not likely to change.
please stop defending someone until you read all their posts
if you dont like something dont read it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.24 06:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: BluOrange
EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back.
this is another good point ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.24 15:06:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Steel Tigeress
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: BluOrange
EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back.
this is another good point
I think its funny how you say this is a good post... Yet when people say 0.0 should be hazardous and hostile to cloakers as well its a bunch of carebears whining.
it is hazardous - every time i uncloak
and for the people thinking goum makes a good post - try reading all his crap - hopefully you have 0.0 knowledge
he is suggesting carebears deserve 100% of the possible profits and 0% of the possible risk in 0.0 - of course he likes to have big posts that if you notice are just the long ways of saying what i just did and trying to trick the newbs to support this by giving a lot of lies as evidence ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.24 15:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Shoukei
Originally by: Goumindong stuff
nice wall of text. well worded pack of nonsense
you are a master of compacting many words into few ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.24 17:00:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Goumindong
SiJira, stop the strawman. My positions are not anything of the sort.
can the teapot stop calling the kettle black? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.26 06:02:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Goumindong I am sorry, what position of yours am i misrepresenting?
you might need to expand your definiton of a strawman argument - either way writing more does not make your non sense posts with a lot of misinformation any better - it just looks that way to people who dont bother reading it but disagree with removing local ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.27 07:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Steel Tigeress
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: BluOrange
EVE is supposed to be harsh. 0.0 is supposed to be scary. Take away the perfect intel, and the game gets a lot scarier for everybody. I want the adrenalin hit to come back.
this is another good point
I think its funny how you say this is a good post... Yet when people say 0.0 should be hazardous and hostile to cloakers as well its a bunch of carebears whining.
you do realize a cloaker has to uncloak to attack right? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.27 09:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Steel Tigeress
Originally by: SiJira
you do realize a cloaker has to uncloak to attack right?
you do relize that a cloak is the only "pause" button in eve right? And it doesnt need to be deactivated to have a negative impact on a system right? or that its the only module without a counter right? Or that while activated, a pearson is safe indefinatly in the "Harsh, dark, hostile" environment right?
You fail to realize that we have been asking for the same dangers to apply to cloakers, that you are asking for ratters. Yet your for 1, and against the other because one helps you, and the other hurts you.
You cant have your cake and eat it too.
-fixed quote for you-
And no it isnt a pause button because you can get uncloaked - no you do not affect the system because there should always be a defensive person with every defenseless ship - yes it has many counters - ie you kill the ship when he tries to gank you - that is what you are scared of right?
funny you say that cliche about cake when you go to 0.0 expecting to reap full high rewards with no work-risk involved you are the one asking to have your cake - the rewards - and eat it too - no risk or work
now proceed to totally twist my post up and try to use a strawman like goum does in every post or ignore my post altogether because you just defeated your own unrealistic demand for breaking something that is balanced ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.12 11:04:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Toku Jiang You can turn local off the day they make it possible to probe out cloaked ships, there sounds like an even trade.
seeing that most of them scare people when they are afk - removing local would remove that fear ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.12 12:17:00 -
[45]
uh ya that argument is overused and illogical nos was - integrated into every aspect of pvp life and yet you dont see CCP caring when they announced the change do you? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.12 15:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: SiJira uh ya that argument is overused and illogical nos was - integrated into every aspect of pvp life and yet you dont see CCP caring when they announced the change do you?
Removing local is completely dissimilar to most levels of module nerfs.
only because everyone uses it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.13 12:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Radgun doesn't this game make you paranoid enough that you want to remove local haha
there should be no paranoia if you are confident in your abilities ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.13 13:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Stitcher Old topic is oooold.
in other news today the sky is blue please add to the discussion ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.13 17:10:00 -
[49]
why do i feel that none of those ideas were meant to be constructive? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.17 19:39:00 -
[50]
so far the best ideas i see here would not really solve the problem that is local they should just imitate lag ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.21 10:32:00 -
[51]
so how about it remove local for 0.0 make it a module for alliance sovereignty to create a new type of local for themselves only
and then make it 15 sec to - connect - to local when you jump around in lowsec - as little as this might do it would prevent people knowing you are there before you actually load into the system ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: AuroraStar
Thats what you meant to say I think. Fixed it for you.
you fail ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:22:00 -
[53]
Originally by: AuroraStar
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: AuroraStar
Thats what you meant to say I think. Fixed it for you.
you fail
no u
and when local is removed your kind shall be eliminated ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:29:00 -
[54]
Originally by: AuroraStar
and when local is removed ill finally be able to kill someone! cause like its so unfair they should have some sort of defence against me, and i cant kill real pvpers help my lame ass please ccp
you arent funny anymore and the fact you are a carebear in 0.0 is clear ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:32:00 -
[55]
Originally by: AuroraStar
QQ
nice response ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.25 15:10:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Vyyrus If you want to remove local for 0.0 than give us people who live in drone regions rats with bounties and security status...
Why do you even post?
your post is equivalent to someone saying they want to reove nos and you coming up and saying "if you want to remove nos please nerf mining lasers"
your post has no relevance and if everyone against the idea posted like you then it would definitely get implemented right away
____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.25 15:20:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Felysta Sandorn STOP BUMPING YOUR OWN THREAD! LET IT DIE! Local stays and that's the end of the argument!
stop trolling my thread - it only takes one email ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.25 17:04:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari I've posted ideas on this on the suggestions section. Link in my sig.
Summary is: If there are no tools given to players to help with the removal of local, local stays.
And besides, removing local after its been with EVE for over 4 years codewise... well I dont even want to consider how bug-ridden that can of worms being opened will feel like.
a lot of things have been broken for years and then they get fixed
thats an excuse when you dont really have an argument ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.25 22:47:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Vorian Atraties why do you people want to remove local, then you wouldent have a place to smack at. unless you plan on sending people evemails
v
Quote: no empire has established lines of communication there so only make people show up if they talk as a rudimentary communications service instead of - player has join system - notification
at least read the first post i highlighted the important stuff for you ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.28 10:33:00 -
[60]
Originally by: LvxOccvlta I can remember a while back, when it was possible to delete Local from your Channels. Doing so removed you from showing up in local when you entered system... but CCP altered this "feature" making it impossible to delete Local.
I for one, would love it if pilots only appeared in local chat if they spoke in local chat. This would make 0.0 space seem much bigger... and scarier.. it would give equal advantages to defenders and attackers while changing the dynamic of 0.0 PVP entirely.
it would make eve everything it is hyped up to be ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.28 14:32:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Celeste Coeval I've said it before and i'll say it again.
Remove Local.
Make Constellation the new local.
Job done...think about it before responding, it's simple yet effective.
that would be a step in the right direction ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.28 16:00:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Turix Chnage local to the mode where you dont show up unless you say anything, so you dont know who is in local. But still show how many people - that way you dont know if the numbers of freindly,hostile or neutral. Just there is X in this system.
it shouldnt show how many people that doesnt change much if anything at all ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.28 20:00:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Jade190 Edited by: Jade190 on 28/08/2007 13:57:42 if local get removed, they must also remove the following: gangs corps alliances ships stations pods guns shields the map 0.0 lowsec and ***holes like you (directed at SiJira)
it's only fair. you get to play eve the way you want to, why can't i?
oh you are one constructive genius ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.29 08:50:00 -
[64]
yarr i have alts in freelancer alliance and roadkill
with the current warp to 0 removing local is the only option left to turn 0.0 from carebear land to what it is supposed to be - especially the non sovereignty systems ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.09.20 14:44:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: Belial02 No.
It already takes long enough to move fleet arounds without beeing worried about things such as cloaking camps and morons trying to be smartasses.
Also if ppl want to relax and carebear a bit its their right dammit. I dont see why I should bother with scanning every second just because some idiots want to boost their stats on KBs...
i love comments like this.
You do realize your enemy has the same disadvantage/advantage.
If local was changed to constellation then you would have an indication that there are hostiles withinb a 4-8 jump radius of you.
exactly ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.09.20 15:12:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Nicho Void
Originally by: SiJira exactly
Just when I thought your forum posting couldn't sink any lower, you bump your month old thread with the reply, "exactly".
You are a cancer.
its a relative issue with a thread full of informed posts people like you complain just because they can and i would rather have a large thread then 15 smaller ones
thanks now dont post if you dont like and thank you for bumping ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.09.20 15:27:00 -
[67]
thanks for the bump anyways
the constellation idea is looking real good as long as it doesnt automatically show who is who ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:32:00 -
[68]
with the new covert ops local needs to change
read the OP to understand before you whine ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:41:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Cailais SiJira,
From my thread on improving low sec (see link in sig):
Introducing - The Fog of War.
Without the capabilities of Empire maintained communication relays your ships awareness its inceasingly mutted in Low Sec. This works by degrading your local scan range - in 1.0 space you see in local everyone within 100AU (99% of a system), in 0.9 this drops to 90AU and so on until 0.1 systems are down to 10AU radius for Local Intell.
Its a compramise Id admit, but a workable one imho.
C.
i agree that the changes need to come in small increments and something like that would be one of the first steps ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:39:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Cailais SiJira,
From my thread on improving low sec (see link in sig):
Introducing - The Fog of War.
Without the capabilities of Empire maintained communication relays your ships awareness its inceasingly mutted in Low Sec. This works by degrading your local scan range - in 1.0 space you see in local everyone within 100AU (99% of a system), in 0.9 this drops to 90AU and so on until 0.1 systems are down to 10AU radius for Local Intell.
Its a compramise Id admit, but a workable one imho.
C.
i agree that the changes need to come in small increments and something like that would be one of the first steps
And probably the last. Scaling local intel is logical when laid alongside the Sec Status of a system. Removing local in its entirety would ultimately have negative effects upon the 'social' aspect of EVE. Constellation Chat channels wouldn't cover it, as we are as a species more able to assimilate social contact through proximity.
No local is a bad idea; limiting local in a scaled fashion makes sense instinctively - like moving from a light filled corridor into increasing darkness.
C.
come now read the op the local is still there it just doesnt do what the current local does, subsequent posts describe how an alliance would be able to fit something to their stations to allow for the local we have now hence giving a real backwater feel to all the uninhabited 0.0 ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.10.28 00:28:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Cailais Edited by: Cailais on 28/10/2007 00:05:20 With that system noone would utter a word in local and then the points I mention would apply (social interaction, etc).
Edit: having said that, Ive just realised that you are refering to 0.0 only in your OP. My system is exactly the same, it just spreads out across Eve in varying degrees of intensity.
I would argue that cloaks would need to be scannable however under such a system: they would be to advantaged otherwise in many situations.
C.
none of the cloaks need to be detected more than they can be right now - definitely not by just scanning
i dont see your point against social interaction - theres no prevention of it with my system if someone wants to talk they can ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.10.31 01:46:00 -
[72]
when 0.0 is completely hostile to each player that is not in his own alliances sovereignty eve will be able to boast more about its greatness
until then this part of the advertising is false and misleading ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
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