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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.05 01:25:00 -
[31]
Oh wow, lots of responses and even an Oveur sighting after just 3 posts, freaking hot
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar As for the cycle time indicator, why not just use the already circular module buttons and do a clock like sweep animation on top of it, like it is done in so many other games. ------ here's a work in progress UI concept ------ Module grouping for easy access and functionality - one hotkey for guns instead of 8
The cycle time indicator can be a tough thing. A lot of the icons look similar, and as it is now taking a glance at the status of a module is difficult. Having half of an icon faded would be obtrusive. While a good thing for certain games where all spells/weapons have a specifically unique coloring and shape, in Eve we have thousands of modules all based off of the same basic library. Nos and neuts, for instance. A very good idea, but I like mine because it's on the side. Not knocking yours, just preference
That screenshot is amazing. It's professionally done, well constructed, and has some very good ideas.
I love your module grouping idea, the only issue I can see is figuring out how to assign each key to multiple weapons. But that's a minor detail on an otherwise brilliant suggestion.
ò Re: Drone Reworking Now, I'm seeing a lot of positive AND negative feedback on the drone UI. That's exactly what I wanted. Some people are saying it's perfect and it has good placement. Other people are saying it's too big and too much is going on
Drones, by nature, are supposed to be cluttered. There's a lot going on. If you deploy 5 drones those are 5 individual entities you have to monitor. What's my first infiltrator doing? What's my third harvester doing? What I want to do is make it uncluttered and customizable, but the fact is there will always be a lot going on because that's exactly what is happening. You need to be made aware of what all of your babies are doing all the time.
SO! What am I wanting to do about it? Firstly we get rid of the row system, as seen in the screens I have up now. Rows are bad. Blocks are good! Less log cabins, more brick houses. They're sturdier, more resilient, and won't rot right out from under you in a few years. Avalon Ranger brought up how the drone UI should be modular. Everything else about this game is modular. You can set up any ship however you want within reasonable boundaries. Why shouldn't we be able to do the same with the interface?
//ò More things to do ò Module activation status Is it turned on or not? Dr Shameless posted something fairly similar to what I had in mind, and am getting to tonight. ò EWar Notifications Who has what on me? I'll get to what I wanted to do later :X ò Overview Changes I've got a few changes in mind that I think most people will like, to be posted later tonight
And just saw someone put a link to my thread in their sig, that's just plain cool -----
Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers Eve GUI Tweaks |
CrestoftheStars
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.07.05 03:13:00 -
[32]
awsome changes ___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
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Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2007.07.05 07:19:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Draekas Darkwater on 05/07/2007 07:22:31 I still don't like the drone UI. Its still too complicated.
When you look at it, what exactly are the states that a drone can be in? Basically only 3.
On Off Docked
On = attacking (combat drones), jamming (ewar), repairing (logistics), mining (mining), ect. Off = returning to ship OR orbiting ship awaiting commands. Docked = um, Duh.
Ok, so remove Docked for a second. All there really is when a drone is deployed, is on and off. Same as any other module, really.
So why not just add a rack of buttons very similar to any other module for each drone. The icon should definetly show at a glance which type of drone it is.
If you activate it, it flashes like other modules do. When off, it stops flashing.
Add a right click command to dock/launch the drones. Perhaps a keyboard/mouse shortcut too.. like cntl-left click on the buttons. When the drone is docked, the button greys out. If the drone is destroyed, its icon disappears.
To switch drones, just drag&drop from your dronebay to the icon. Alternatively you could switch drones by right clicking and choosing which to swap it with, the same way that you can change ammo. A "swap all" option would be available as well.
The only other thing you really need to know is the health of the drone. For this, just add a small vertical or horizontal healthbar to the side, above, or below it (user's choice where). As an alternative, you could do the "heat-like" approach, and add the healthbar around the module. This would like like the heat display on each module, plus 2 more for armor and hull on the bottom left, and bottom right. Again, you're choice which you prefer.
As an added feature, something else I really like to know is if my drones are currently taking damage. So for this, I would add a flashing effect to the drone healthbars and change the colour of the button if the drone has taken damage in the last few seconds.
As to where on the screen these buttons should go, I'm a fan for self customization. Shift-click drag them to wherever you want them to go as far as I'm concerned. However, as a default, just put them to the right of the current module buttons with a bit of space between them. Kinda like the images from the following drone idea post Linkage Many of these ideas are a modification of the linked post.
I suck at graphics so I can't really show ya what I mean, but I hope it makes sense. =D
Add to that your module grouping idea and apply the same thing to these drone "modules" and you have a fairly easy to use interface for drones that we're all familiar with after using modules for the last few years.
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Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2007.07.05 08:03:00 -
[34]
Whops, I forgot to add that when the drones are activated on a target that you are locked onto, thier icon will appear either under or above the locked target. Same thing as when you activate other modules on targets, and you see thier little icons next to it.
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.05 08:38:00 -
[35]
Draek, I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. You may not fly ships that primarily rely on drones, so I can understand what you're saying here, but it doesn't work that way at all.
When one of your drones is taking damage you NEED to know. If you're flying a drake or a raven, yeah, maybe it's no big deal to you. Drones are something you can deal with losing. You can deal with not even bringing them to begin with.
But take a Myrmidon, or Domi, or any other ship with a drone bonus. Hell, you can even take a geddon or phoon, any ship with a decently sized drone bay. Those ships rely heavily (if not primarily) on their drones for damage. A color change to indicate damage being taken just won't cut it. You need to know how MUCH damage your drones have taken, so you know when to pull them in and drop them out again. Maybe you don't like that tactic, I don't know, but it's a valid and regularly used tactic.
A blinky yellow light doesn't tell me if my drones are at 25% structure or 75% shield. It doesn't tell me if targets are shooting my drone with no armor or my drone with full shields. These are things you NEED to know, and removing this information from the UI is the worst mistake CCP could possibly make, short of removing your own ship's HP bars. And at the end of a fight, if you want to rep your own drones you're out of luck, you have no idea which ones have how much damage.
The drone UI is, has been, and always will be complicated. That's because drones themselves are complicated. That's just how it is. -----
Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers Eve GUI Tweaks |
Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:40:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Draekas Darkwater on 05/07/2007 15:43:31
Originally by: Draekas Darkwater Edited by: Draekas Darkwater on 05/07/2007 07:22:31
The only other thing you really need to know is the health of the drone. For this, just add a small vertical or horizontal healthbar to the side, above, or below it (user's choice where). As an alternative, you could do the "heat-like" approach, and add the healthbar around the module. This would like like the heat display on each module, plus 2 more for armor and hull on the bottom left, and bottom right. Again, you're choice which you prefer.
Maybe you missed this part =D Of course you need the health bars. So they would look like _ this o| or like this o or like this |o or this o -
That's a poor illustration of what I meant, where the "o" is the button, and the "|" is the healthbar for that drone.
The second option I mentioned would put a circular healthbar around the entire button, with the top section being the shield strength, the left bottom being the armor, and the right bottom the hull.
A third, and perhaps better option, would be to use triangular buttons instead of round ones, like this: /\ --
Those outlines would be the healthbars.. left is the shield, right is the armor, and the bottom is the hull. This would distinguish the drone buttons from the other module buttons more readily, and more easily show the srength of the shield/armor/hull.
I hope that makes sense.
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Seeing EyeDog
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: CCP Oveur This thread delivers.
Pics do it for you.
now its time for CCP to deliver mucht he same way alot of its player base does with GREAT ideas. Stop commenting on how great an idea is all the time, and move some of this stuff to the drawing board...NOW
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Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2007.07.05 16:20:00 -
[38]
Ok Haff, I broke down and have showed off my awesome MS Paint skills for you. =D
Your eyes will bleed
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.07.05 18:45:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Inspiration on 05/07/2007 18:45:43 I found the pictures very hard to follow, and there is a lot of clutter in the design.
What I did like:
* Cap readout, obvious and non intrusive * Optional warp jamming strength indicator in overview (should be an EW column realy with mini-icons for each type of EW) * A simple warp jam indicator (not the color-coded segmented circle thing, as that was awful at best).
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Seeing EyeDog
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Posted - 2007.07.05 18:47:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Inspiration Edited by: Inspiration on 05/07/2007 18:45:43 I found the pictures very hard to follow, and there is a lot of clutter in the design.
What I did like:
* Cap readout, obvious and non intrusive * Optional warp jamming strength indicator in overview (should be an EW column realy with mini-icons for each type of EW) * A simple warp jam indicator (not the color-coded segmented circle thing, as that was awful at best).
that segmented circle made alot of sense if you had some sort of brain between those ears, sweetheart.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.07.05 21:05:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Inspiration on 05/07/2007 21:11:22
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog that segmented circle made alot of sense if you had some sort of brain between those ears, sweetheart.
Pardon me, and you are what god?
Small features shouldn't use up so much screen real estate, let alone use screaming colors that makes one eyes bleed. So whatever you think its good for, get it out of your skull :).
A simple icon indicating being warp scrambled (maybe flash it) and a number next to it, indicating remaining warp strength provides all the info you need. And it takes up no additional space compared to what we use now!
But then again, I am blond, ain't I?
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.05 21:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog that segmented circle made alot of sense if you had some sort of brain between those ears, sweetheart.
Ok, could some mod please show this gentleman the door? I mean senseless flaming ought to be appropriately honored.
_________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. - |
Avalon Ranger
Caldari Orphans of War
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Posted - 2007.07.06 01:10:00 -
[43]
Avalon again. I like the ideas, and it seems a drone UI everyone will find usable will be imposable, some people want a basic UI (Target, click a button and all you're drone attack) and some people want a advanced UI (Target, select a drone/group of drones, give a command and repeat).
Also thanks for the mention here . I think everyone is agreed theses ideas are very good and at least 90% of them need, and I stress NEED, adding. A great description followed by great pictures and examples.
The current system is either too in the way or you can't make it big enough without losing half your screen to the overview. Making it a detachable window that you can open and close like the scanner would be nice.
Keep up the good work, I hope you get some credit when (Yes, when) these get added!
Yarr
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Xcom
Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.06 02:20:00 -
[44]
Well here is a link to a forum thread about Drone UI. Solves 100% of all drone issues we have today flawlessly.
PS. With pretty pictures too.
Drone UI Link
Enjoy
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.06 03:09:00 -
[45]
I'd iffy as to whether you should get to automatically know who has points on you, though it seems logical and not necessarily overpowered either.
The "Adds X jumps" thing on the menu would need to be a delayed feature, so the menu opens instantly and then after a short while the number of jumps appears (background calculation - AS ALMOST EVERYTHING IN THE CLIENT SHOULD BE).
Everything else is pretty much gold, I especially like the Warp Core Strength indicator.
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CypherDragon
Amarr Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.07.06 03:30:00 -
[46]
Edited by: CypherDragon on 06/07/2007 03:32:16
Originally by: Draekas Darkwater And here is some sample Buttons =P
Is that Raspberry? If not, LOOSE!
Really, some very nice ideas here. Combine it with adding hotkeys, process threading, and let me move everything around and I think we've got a winner for a UI (I especially like the top bar with the system info and large icons for what's happening to your ship and module grouping posted by Tareen Kashaar)
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Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2007.07.06 04:14:00 -
[47]
Originally by: CypherDragon Edited by: CypherDragon on 06/07/2007 03:32:16
Originally by: Draekas Darkwater And here is some sample Buttons =P
Is that Raspberry? If not, LOOSE!
Only Lonestar would dare give me the raspberry! =D
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Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.06 05:15:00 -
[48]
Great work and effort on those ideas.
The only one I'll comment on atm is the warp scrambled indicator (not overview).
You've taken it a little too far I think. The only thing one really cares about is if they are warp scrambled or not. The segmented warp core strength indicator with multiple colours is really not necessary. All I need to know is can I warp or not.
As has been suggested before, all one really needs is the speed indicator to flash red when one is scrambled. I think that would even work well for colourblind people, as that indicator does not flash for anything else. ---- Some people say I have a bad attitude. Those people are stupid.
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Acacia Everto
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.06 06:33:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sirius Problem Great work and effort on those ideas.
The only one I'll comment on atm is the warp scrambled indicator (not overview).
You've taken it a little too far I think. The only thing one really cares about is if they are warp scrambled or not. The segmented warp core strength indicator with multiple colours is really not necessary. All I need to know is can I warp or not.
As has been suggested before, all one really needs is the speed indicator to flash red when one is scrambled. I think that would even work well for colourblind people, as that indicator does not flash for anything else.
I disagree. Though the segmented warp core indicator might be a bit pedantic, I definitely want to know exactly how many points are on me, from who. "Oh, xxx interceptor has 2 point on me? *click* *boom* *warp*" Otherwise, I'll just know I can't gtfo. While this would be a giant leap forward where the UI is concerned, I want to know who I need to kill to get out. Currently I'm writing a script on my laptop to tail my latest EVE log, and if I get warp scrambled to tell me in chunky red letters to help facilitate this.
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Shin Mao
Caldari AFC Ultima Rati0
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Posted - 2007.07.06 11:27:00 -
[50]
I realy like core strength indicator and specially warp Scramble Overview Column.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.06 11:29:00 -
[51]
You're right actually - the messages right now tell you who's warp scrambling who. So then I agree - they should appear on the overview.
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.07.06 12:02:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar ... and here's a work in progress UI concept. Module grouping for easy access and functionality - one hotkey for guns instead of 8 - ew indicators on overview, module cycle sweep timers, a (compared to yours, crappy) drone UI, etc.
I love this. Especially the modules grouping under hotkeys. In my eyes really amazing work !
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
CaptainSeafort
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.07.06 14:50:00 -
[53]
Edited by: CaptainSeafort on 06/07/2007 14:49:53 i love the implementation of ideas 1 (the first implementation, on the left toolbar) + 3, number 2 is a nice idea but i think it need to be a subsidiary of heat damage bar rather than in place of a chunk of it - heat damage already screams along that bar scarily fast.
#4 im not sure about, but id go with option 1 rather than 2.
#5 is excellent, but would need to be assessed for load - it sounds silly, but i could see the greater number of calls stacking up fast.
ammo bay....just use "sort by type", and it pulls ammo to the top of your window =/
"absolute cap readout" uhmmm...thats relative mate, absolute would be "4873/6500" or whatever.
drone UI is a nice concept, but your placement is very cluttered. its a real spacehog, and the main feature most drone users want is an attack, return, scoop etc button near weapons. id be tempted to use a less blocky version of your UI, and have it running vertically down the side of the overview stack. that way, it doesnt take up much extra space,it displays all the info in a similar layout, and it doesnt constrain how many overview slots you can display while also having drone window and gang window and shortcuts window open =)
"Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE! |
Karash Amerius
Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.07.06 16:14:00 -
[54]
I would be happy if the Overview wasnt so damn buggy. This is all plush stuff as well.
Merc Blog |
Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.06 16:26:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Acacia Everto I disagree. Though the segmented warp core indicator might be a bit pedantic, I definitely want to know exactly how many points are on me, from who. "Oh, xxx interceptor has 2 point on me?
When talking about exactly "who" has how many points on you, you're talking about the new overview column. My comments were specific to the warp core indicator changes.
Again, as far as that readout is concerned, all I really need to know is that I can or cannot warp out.
If people feel the number of points are really important to that readout, then let that number show there unobtrusively as a fraction like points/strength, i.e 1/2, 3/2, etc. I think in this case "less is more" and likely easier to code the way I've described it.
Again, I appreciate the effort you and others make to bring much needed UI changes to the table. :) ---- Some people say I have a bad attitude. Those people are stupid.
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TimMc
The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2007.07.06 19:33:00 -
[56]
/Signed
Its perfect almost, drone UI is a bit big but better than current.
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.06 22:02:00 -
[57]
Not a HUGE fan of the drone UI but as you've said, i don't think there's a way to keep drones as useful and powerful as they are while making them incredibly easy to manage. They do need to be a wee bit confusing. The idea of a modular drone UI could be interesting. In your image you show a round UI outside the readout with a "flag" of the drones. Perhaps the drone 'flag' should be collapsible. The collapsed tag can flash red when your drones are taking damage so you know to look. This way a drone-heavy Myrm pilot can leave the flag open and in my Raven I can basically ignore my disposadrones. Same UI, compatible with people who use disposadrones and with people who use drones as a primary weapon.
Warp scram points: I'd be happy to see my speed bar flash when I'm scrambled. The overview column would be optional and I think I'm alright with that. If you don't like it, don't show that column. Could be very handy for support combat as well. Question- does the scrambler column only show if they are scrambling YOU or do they show anybody with an active scrambler? everybody in grid gets a warning when a scrambler is active so I'd assume the latter. That being the case, Support ships would get a huge buff. Have an Eagle or a stealth bomber sit 75km back and snipe people with scrambler icons? I see a lot of potential for this.
Overall. I love the post. You've put a lot of effort in and the UI needs a tasty update. Personally I'd like to see them start from scratch but what you're showing here is a HUGE step forward. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Laendra
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Posted - 2007.07.07 17:50:00 -
[58]
One thing I find myself doing a lot of, and wishing there was a shortcut way of doing it...after setting a destination, going to the map and setting each jump as a waypoint, then having to optimize the path. I do this so that I can warp to 0, hit autopilot and then not watch the screen until after it jumps. ------------------- Brainstorm ideas to make EVE better:->http://eve.stormingbrains.org/index.php
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Camilo Cienfuegos
EP0CH
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Posted - 2007.07.07 18:46:00 -
[59]
Very nice ideas and very nicely put across. Pictures for the win... Only addition I'd like to your ideas is that the whole HUD can be moved. If we look at your proposed drone UI we can see that your overview is squeezed up so as to not overlap the last few modules that protrude from the right of the HUD, not to mention your proposed drone UI. Given that there are next to no monitors with a longer vertical pixel count than horizontal, this simply doesn't make any sense to me.
Being able to anchor the HUD anywhere other than slap bang in the middle of the screen would resolve this problem, and allow the drone UI to be used as it is without being a nuisance, or to expand upon your own drone UI to allow more than 5 drones.
All in all though..
/signed -- Don't take the carebears out of empire - take the empire out of carebears! |
Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.09 10:00:00 -
[60]
UPDATED!
I've stuffed in some chat window ideas and a work in progress that is the ewar monitor. I spent about 2 hours too long trying to get a font that looks as bad as the one we have in-game right now. I think I did a good job
Lots to respond to, this is what I get for slacking the past few days
Originally by: Inspiration * A simple warp jam indicator (not the color-coded segmented circle thing, as that was awful at best).
I partially agree, but I think it's fairly good looking. An idea's an idea, this thread is about taking any number of solutions to solve the same problems we're facing. But to each their own though. But for the sake of argument, it's going in a previously unused area of space, giving an at-a-glance easy to read display of whether you can warp or not.
To all the drone discussion, it *is* still a work in progress, and I posted it up because everybody's got a different outlook. That's precisely why I've put the ewar monitor up now as well. Sadly, making the drone UI smaller would be hard while still keeping it readable.
Where I've placed the drone UI is about the only spot it can go that isn't out of the way or stuck to the overview. It can't go to the right of the module racks, as that would be cut off on 1024x768. As archaic as that resolution is, yes some people still use it It can't really go to the left, since most people stick their chat windows there. But that's why I made it detachable. -----
Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers Eve GUI Tweaks |
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