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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Halca
Candy Hearts
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:01:00 -
[3121]
Originally by: Troubadour of course performing a DDoS attack on the forums is perfectly legal both in game and in real life.
right?
oh wait.
Do you even understand what a DDoS is or does it just make what you say seem more interesting?
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Don Hicks
Dirty Labs
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:01:00 -
[3122]
Originally by: Khorian
Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch
Nobody is saying that every member of BoB is guilty of receiving spawned BPOs or contacting devs via MSN. It is however pretty clear that some of your members are.
The thing is, that is exactly what most of the people here say. They say BoB(BoD) and that includes me. It's a generalisation and it's unjustified. This is about a handful of individuals, and not about BoB or Goons or CCP. I just wish people would realize that and stop screaming murder.
i think for many ppl its not about goon or bob. its about dev and ccp abusing our trust.
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Tiger Fai
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:01:00 -
[3123]
For whatever it is worth; Our game deserves better than people like Dianabolic with a direct line to the devs For almost forty-eight hours, CCP has done nothing, and that's disgraceful Only hope now is that a prompt response is forthcoming, and that justice will be dealt
-- TOO MANY ENERMY |
Scatim Helicon
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:02:00 -
[3124]
Well, now my forum ban has lapsed...
Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Arkanon, i think it's time for some heads to roll; gm, player and dev alike.
This list of heads includes but is not limited to: T20, admiral crajdasjfgsdkjfsd, orange species, sharkbait and the various other players/devs that have direct contact with the opposed parties to manipulate the way EVE's sandbox evolves.
In this case, I see no reason why OS has to go (much as I'd like to see one less POS-bowler in our space). If the 'MSN-gate' allegation is true, its hardly Orange Species' fault for using a means of communication made available to him; the fault lies with whoever was on the other end of that communication and acted on it. I can make all sorts of ridiculous and unreasonable requests of my friends (whether its asking a CCP employee to fire ISD members for spurious reasons, or asking a bank manager to slip me a few thousand pounds from the vault), the onus is on them to act responsibly and professionally and tell me to go through the proper channels or get lost.
Likewise Sharkbait, right now we have no evidence he's actually done anything malicious. If BoB were to drop a dreadfleet on one of DS1's POS sites next week then his actions will be seen in a different light and I'll be extremely suspicious, but currently the most you can say is that to not inform the members of DS1 of his actions in advance or even respond to their communications afterwards was the wrong way to go about things.
T20 of course should have been sacked on the spot when the first misconduct came to light.
Quote: I have no problem with EVE devs having various friends, or even gamer friends, i do have a problem however when the friends of devs are eve players that, due to their buddy buddy relationship, can get the devs to act in their interest, to boost the players e-peen or whatever.
Agreed, but in hindsight it was extremely niave of CCP to create a game with the ruthless and politicised atmosphere of EVE, and then to recruit their employees and GMs from the various partisan factions within the game and expect them to remain entirely impartial with what seems to be minimal accountability or monitoring. We've all seen how participants on all sides of this game tend to demonise their opponents (a natural phenomenon in all forms of warfare, after all), is it really so unexpected that employees recruited from this atmosphere would carry over their preconceptions as GMs and help out their friends and former corpmates against 'the bad guys'? |
Troubadour
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:02:00 -
[3125]
Originally by: Halca
Originally by: Troubadour of course performing a DDoS attack on the forums is perfectly legal both in game and in real life.
right?
oh wait.
Do you even understand what a DDoS is or does it just make what you say seem more interesting?
spamming a service with packets in order to take it offline or make it unusable = DDoS. This now includes forum raiding.
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Prall Grosserbauch
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:02:00 -
[3126]
Originally by: Avon
Whereas, of course, no goon has ever cheated, ever?
Because, if they had, then the entire alliance would be discredited for the actions of some members, right?
I'll repeat again, this is not about discrediting BoB it's about getting CCP to fix some serious issues with their internal workings. Two of the three scandals brought up do not involve BoB in the slightest.
Thanks for replying to me though now since you've picked up the habit again I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace.
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Digital Solaris
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:03:00 -
[3127]
Originally by: Breaky Rules
The last round of "evidence" as you put it left CCP's credibility raped about as bad as Tori Amos. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt seeing as they were right before.
You do have a point. But how about this, will you be able to differ from truth and a lie? As I said, this has the desired effect and its nothing but devastating and so, why would Goon ever want to stop throwing dirt in the direction of CCP even if they are lying through their teeth? I mean, it is obvious that they are after propaganda points.
Originally by: Wansua Wiku
You are absolutely right. The fact that the previous allegations proved true does not in any way lend credence to this claim. Goons, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
You miss the point, and therefore I suggest you read what I wrote to Breaky Rules. -- Forum mentality is really like sex, everybody likes to be on top! Me too... although, I prefer doggy. |
Khorian
Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:03:00 -
[3128]
Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 16:59:39
Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 27/05/2007 16:30:00 People talking about democracies here and constitutional states, where no one is found guilty until his guilt is proven.
France isn't a democracy, then? Innocent until proven guilty is based on British law. Not all countries legal systems work the same.
There you go, you've learnt something today.
Thanks Itzena, I remember you from Vallon Zek btw. Anyway, you are right there. But Constitutional states are still a good thing (here in germany too) --------------------- This is the signature
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eleuthereus
Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:03:00 -
[3129]
Originally by: Avon So, would one person using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue to accuse another person of using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue not qualify as hypocrisy in your eyes? I thought it fell exactly within the definition of hypocrisy.
LOL. I see what you did. This is kinda clever, but also twisted and not really accurate. But I give you 10 points for trying.
In truth, what you have just done is take two actions that fall under two different categories, and RE-categorized them together under a THIRD category you invented in order to formulate your hypocrisy accusation.
But the two actions you noted do not fall under the same category, or even the third category you invented -- i.e. as you put it, "inappropriate method of communication."
1. BOB using MSN to contact devs/GMs = category: inappropriate in-game contact between devs and players that circumvent game mechanics and rules others play by.
2. GOONS threadnaught = category: choosing an accelerated level of communication w/ public before exhausting all other possible means of communication with CCP.
Seee? Two different actions = no hypocrisy. They are different actions. It WOULD have been hypocrisy if Goons complained about BOB, but then turned around and used MSN to do the very same thing. THAT would be hypocrisy.
You erroneously re-categorized both actions under a third invented category "inappropriate method of communication." But this style of re-categorization can be used to make ANYTHING into hypocrisy. You might as well have said, "Well, Goons are hypocrites because they used words to convey their accusations just like BOB used words with MSN." Absurd. I hope this helps.
I also added another para. in my last post about BNC which I hope shows I bear no animosity toward you, your corp, or even BOB. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Vantras
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:04:00 -
[3130]
Originally by: Khorian
Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch
Nobody is saying that every member of BoB is guilty of receiving spawned BPOs or contacting devs via MSN. It is however pretty clear that some of your members are.
The thing is, that is exactly what most of the people here say. They say BoB(BoD) and that includes me. It's a generalisation and it's unjustified. This is about a handful of individuals, and not about BoB or Goons or CCP. I just wish people would realize that and stop screaming murder.
I actually believe this. Sooo..lets get them named, shamed and banned. Employee, BOB member, Goonie-anyone that is cheating, manipulating the game, making it an un-level playing field for those of us that just log on and follow the rules.
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Arrow Jumpdrive
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:10:00 -
[3131]
Quote: Our game deserves better than people like Dianabolic with a direct line to the devs
This is part of the issue at hand. The original issue was a GM logging into the game, adding himself to a directorship role in a corp under the Guise of a POS issue. Bullocks I say.
Quote: I don't see how a GM joining a corp is an exploit.
- WHAT ?!, ARE YOU INSANE ? |
She Storm
Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:11:00 -
[3132]
I am not in either BOB nor Goons, Though I am allied with Goons.
Personally, I think ANYONE having a direct, not in game, line of communication with the GMs should not be happening.
As for the "Bob Cheats/Goon Whines" forum whoring, It's just Bull**** I could give 2 craps about.
If the other mentioned issues happened or not, after past problems, one would think that CCP would have ALREADY taken the step to keep GMs, etc OUT OF PLAYER ALLIANCES. As improprieties have already happened once, it makes it too easy for people to believe they are happening again if CCP employees are allowed to be in player corps/alliances. Simple solutions. #1. Make it a mandate that NO CCP EMPLOYEE MAY COMMUNICATE WITH SUBSCRIBERS OUTSIDE OF THE GAME. (Wouldn't be any different then the thousands of companies who do not allow employee/customer freternization)
#2 NO CCP EMPLOYEE MAY BE A MEMBER OF ANY SUBSCRIBER CORPORATION.
Those 2 rules would alliviate most if not all of the either truthful, or alleged problems.
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Prall Grosserbauch
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:11:00 -
[3133]
Originally by: Khorian
The thing is, that is exactly what most of the people here say. They say BoB(BoD) and that includes me. It's a generalisation and it's unjustified. This is about a handful of individuals, and not about BoB or Goons or CCP. I just wish people would realize that and stop screaming murder.
Saying your alliance is guilty of cheating (or at best highly inappropriate actions) is not the same as saying you personally are guilty. That being said I do agree with you that this is not really about BoB but I completely disagree that this is not about CCP, it is their policies and their practicies that allow situations such as these to arise time and time again.
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Shivalla
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:11:00 -
[3134]
Originally by: OverKill Ok (climbs on the box) time for me to chime in...
Some of you may know of me, and most of you probably do not. Sufficed to say, I have been here since before EVE was even released to the public. No, I'm not a fanboi, a dev or any other person except myself. I've been here since Alpha, Beta and day 1 of release. I can honestly say that aside from the 20-30 times that I've had all the devs over for a BBQ at my place (levity, humor, all that), I haven't had a single interaction with any of them ingame (that I am aware of) and it really makes no difference to me whether I do or not.
Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?! There is no endgame in EVE. You can never "win" like so many people claim. EVE is designed to be an everlasting labor of love for her developers and for those of us who play in this universe. It is an idea, a dream and a realization of that dream that persists whether you are online or not.
They killed my dreadnaught! So what, buy another one. They have access to T2 BPOs! So what, invent some of your own and don't buy from them. They have 1000 0.0 systems and we only have 550! So what, how much room do you honestly think you need? I saw XYZ talking to GM SuperKalaFragaListic! So what, how does it REALLY affect you?
The corp I am a member of has been here since day 1, we've had our shares of up and down and we've never once resorted to any kind of dev assisted advancement, even if it does exist. We'll never be the richest most powerful bunch of uber players but that suits us just fine and we enjoy the game for what it is, an extension of our imaginations.
Perhaps some of you need to take a good hard look at exactly what you are playing and what type of game you WANT to play. If you want an endgame then maybe you should be looking elsewhere. If you want to analyze, adapt and overcome then this is the place for you.
The only issue that the players should be concerned with (most of you are, even hidden under 98 pages of somewhat murky waters) is the issue of a player being banned by a GM without a VERY thorough investigation. CCP does need to institute a policy in regards to banning, perhaps a two tier response system. GM 1 opts to ban a player for whatever reason, he needs someone else to execute said ban. (nuke missile keys anyone?!?!). Banning should require a fair bit of thought and investigation before its done!
Anyways, I came, I saw, I said my peace...
For the record, I am wearing asbestos underwear and am hereby flameproof.
Regards, OK -
This might actually be the best post sofar.
I have gone through this whole threadnaught, and posted few replies, got slandered. called names, for being BoB obviously. And in general sense, gone through a pile of alt posts, ****cluster of ignorant trolling, flaming those who are opposed side. And in general, a heap of total and utter CRAP.
I never have understanded the fact why BoB was so hated, I was in LV; and most of LV were not Pro-BoB, and since we allied with them, when RAGOON/TCF couldnt beat us, and had the train fixed, and +60% eve alliances came and took us down, many in LV left due "allying with BoB".
I never have understanded it, and I now do.
Anger, Envy, Hate, they all go hand in hand.
You hate those who are successful, those are claimed to cheat. Those are claimed to be favored by those in power. Those are rumored to metagame in extent that its not healthy to community. Those are ignorant flaming trolls who dont want to do anything else than anger people.
Now I damn right get it.
Ok, I have been called a moron, a egoistic, many things.
I admit, I have been proud, I still am. Why wouldnt I be?
Im ex-LV, we were the second biggest, now I am honored to be invited into BoB. I am fricking PROUD to be part of it, as it is a proof of what I have been doing in EVE. PWNING when ever it has been possible.
Hate me, hate us.
I want to finish this into.
JUST BRING IT ON!
10/10
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Halca
Candy Hearts
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:12:00 -
[3135]
Originally by: Witty Moniker
Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley It's amazing what the human mind can make up from thin-air. You know, nowhere has anything you've written above been stated and not a single shred of proof.
There's not a shred of proof of BoB having out of game contacts with devs and using that ability to circumvent petitions? Really?
Originally by: Dianabolic
You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?
And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game?
Originally by: Dianabolic
We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
Originally by: D'Artagnan
Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it.
This means nothing. Are you saying people are not allowed to speak with other people? This doesn't mean at all that those contacts are being used, whenever something needs doing.
You are just linking things together without a single shred of evidence.
"Oh yes, jst because you know someone who works for CCP you must be cheating. Omg, ban him quickly." Ugh, ok whatever.
Do any of you guys in BoB even understand what the term conflict of interest means?
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Boogerbuster
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:12:00 -
[3136]
Originally by: Xalorn This is much bigger than bob versus goon.
To all saying 'proof or STFU', read page 12, post 345 of this thread we are in.
Regardless of all the other serious allegations, this statement made by one of the top BoB leaders is extremely dangerous to the long term well being of the game.
Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
The fact that he feels that having that sort of inside line into CCP is 'not a big deal' shows a lot of people exactly how disconnected from standard dev ethical conduct CCP devs are.
---In no other major MMO is such an 'inside line' allowed. ---In all other major MMO games, the existence of such an 'inside line' is grounds for immediate termination for the employee & immediate ban for the player.
I'm not advocating the termination/ban of anyone, I am saying that either NOBODY gets 'special access' or EVERYONE gets 'special access'.
You may not advocate a ban on these collaborators, but I do. Slaps on the wrist just won't cut it anymore.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:12:00 -
[3137]
Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 17:03:40
Originally by: Avon So, would one person using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue to accuse another person of using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue not qualify as hypocrisy in your eyes? I thought it fell exactly within the definition of hypocrisy.
LOL. I see what you did. This is kinda clever, but also twisted and not really accurate. But I give you 10 points for trying.
In truth, what you have just done is take two actions that fall under two different categories, and RE-categorized them together under a THIRD category you invented in order to formulate your hypocrisy accusation.
But the two actions you noted do not fall under the same category, or even the third category you invented -- i.e. as you put it, "inappropriate method of communication."
1. BOB using MSN to contact devs/GMs = category: inappropriate in-game contact between devs and players that circumvent game mechanics and rules others play by.
2. GOONS threadnaught = category: choosing an accelerated level of communication w/ public before exhausting all other possible means of communication with CCP.
Seee? Two different actions = no hypocrisy. They are different actions. It WOULD have been hypocrisy if Goons complained about BOB, but then turned around and used MSN to do the very same thing. THAT would be hypocrisy.
You erroneously re-categorized both actions under a third invented category "inappropriate method of communication." But this style of re-categorization can be used to make ANYTHING into hypocrisy. You might as well have said, "Well, Goons are hypocrites because they used words to convey their accusations just like BOB used words with MSN." Absurd. I hope this helps.
I also added another para. in my last post about BNC which I hope shows I bear no animosity toward you, your corp, or even BOB.
Nice to see you trying, but sophism isn't going to help.
The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Alias11
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:13:00 -
[3138]
Originally by: Halca They posted with legitimate accounts onto a forum they are subscribed to. They didn't spam the service with packets in order to take it offline. It does sound more evil though and adds a little spice to your otherwise inane post that is completely off topic. Congrats.
No man we're totally hackers, like, late 80's style hackers. We have various colored boxes and mohawks and when we're not using our Fushcia boxes to phreak $outhwe$tern Bell or phreaking the norms then we're spending all our time trying to destroy America by making Time's square start flashing "AVAST YE LANDLUBBERS, BANK OF AMERICA IS ABOUT TO GO BELLY UP" or corrupting the youth of today with our rocking and rolling and dungeons and dragons satan worship
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Prall Grosserbauch
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:14:00 -
[3139]
Originally by: Witty Moniker
This means nothing. Are you saying people are not allowed to speak with other people? This doesn't mean at all that those contacts are being used, whenever something needs doing.
Oh really?
Originally by: D'Artagnan
Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it.
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Bartholomeus Crane
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:15:00 -
[3140]
Originally by: Khorian I don't have any channels to Devs or recieved billions through spawned BPOs. That was part of what I said. I can safely say that i am 100% innocent.
You are quilty by association. The guy buying the gold from bank-robbers is also guilty by association.
You had the chance to be principled about cheating. You could have left BoB when you found out about the cheating that was going on. You didn't. From then on you became a cheater yourself. By association. You're now to late to claim innocence.
Reputation works strange that way. Khorian == BoB == cheat. People will always see it that way.
Can't put it simpler than that. --
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Prall Grosserbauch
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:16:00 -
[3141]
Originally by: Avon
The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle.
So are you saying that members of BoB do not in fact maintain inappropriate lines of communication with devs?
And just for old times sake I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace
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Halca
Candy Hearts
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:16:00 -
[3142]
Originally by: Avon Nice to see you trying, but sophism isn't going to help.
The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle.
Or you could address the fact that the majority of accounts spamming the forums where banned for their inappropriate use of communications and the onus here was on ISD moderation to see to this and then see how with BoB's inaprropriate friendships there is zero comeback if something inappropriate does occur.
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eleuthereus
Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:17:00 -
[3143]
Originally by: Avon The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle.
Uhm, yeah. Well, sorry if I confused you with the facts. It's hardly sophism ('a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone"). You've simply decided in yoru mind that you MUST call Goons hypocrites and invented some bassackward way of justifying it -- one that makes no sense when considering the definition of the term hypocrite and the issue being discussed. Oh well. Whatever. The point in my post is there for anyone to read. As I said, Goons would indeed be hypocrites of they complained about BOB MSNing devs/GMS, but then turned around and did the same thing. That, my friend, is a hypocrite. tata Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Elois Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:17:00 -
[3144]
This is all kind of funny. In a game this which is obviously rigged against hi sec miners, the low sec highly experienced, privleged alliance characters are screaming like babies about a minor amount of developers playing with powertools in their sandbox.
Get a bloody life, eh? Try playing more, crybabying less. You make me sick. |
OozoO
Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:19:00 -
[3145]
hm ... posts repeat themselves on regular basis ... there goes another 100 pages Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected]) |
Perry Hope
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:20:00 -
[3146]
That is all no more fun. Hey guys. This is a game. It shouldnŠt not be more than a game.
I love EVE but sometimes it is really bad to hear that someone have more rights ingame than others. WTF??? I mean. ArenŠt we all members of this game? Why did we f*** up each other out of range of the EULA and the ingame strategies???
I feel a bit scared and aggressive about that theme.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:21:00 -
[3147]
Originally by: eleuthereus
Originally by: Avon The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle.
Uhm, yeah. Well, sorry if I confused you with the facts. It's hardly sophism ('a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone"). You've simply decided in yoru mind that you MUST call Goons hypocrites and invented some bassackward way of justifying it -- one that makes no sense when considering the definition of the term hypocrite and the issue being discussed. Oh well. Whatever. The point in my post is there for anyone to read. As I said, Goons would indeed be hypocrites of they complained about BOB MSNing devs/GMS, but then turned around and did the same thing. That, my friend, is a hypocrite. tata
So, if any goons have chatted to people over MSN then they are hypocrites?
You might want to talk to some people higher up in GS before you answer that.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Lumy
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:21:00 -
[3148]
Originally by: eleuthereus
1. BOB using MSN to contact devs/GMs = category: inappropriate in-game contact between devs and players that circumvent game mechanics and rules others play by.
2. GOONS threadnaught = category: intentional damage to CCP reputation in public before exhausting all other possible means of communication with CCP.
Fixed for you.
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Falco Sparverius
Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:21:00 -
[3149]
Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 16:59:39
Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 27/05/2007 16:30:00 People talking about democracies here and constitutional states, where no one is found guilty until his guilt is proven.
France isn't a democracy, then? Innocent until proven guilty is based on British law. Not all countries legal systems work the same.
There you go, you've learnt something today.
Not that its actually relevant to the discussion, but you are not really correct. Bork Bork Bork |
Halca
Candy Hearts
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Posted - 2007.05.27 17:23:00 -
[3150]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: eleuthereus
Originally by: Avon The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle.
Uhm, yeah. Well, sorry if I confused you with the facts. It's hardly sophism ('a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone"). You've simply decided in yoru mind that you MUST call Goons hypocrites and invented some bassackward way of justifying it -- one that makes no sense when considering the definition of the term hypocrite and the issue being discussed. Oh well. Whatever. The point in my post is there for anyone to read. As I said, Goons would indeed be hypocrites of they complained about BOB MSNing devs/GMS, but then turned around and did the same thing. That, my friend, is a hypocrite. tata
So, if any goons have chatted to people over MSN then they are hypocrites?
You might want to talk to some people higher up in GS before you answer that.
So what you're saying is that it's okay then if someone else does it or that you imply does it.
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