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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 06:05:00 -
[1]
I just read the dev blog and have to say I like the idea, however, unless you remove drones, wrecks and cargo containers from easily being scanned out it will make people in Deadspace easy targets.
Being that all belts will be in deadspace and the warp in point is miles off the belts it forces the use of Jet cans.
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Silver Night
Caldari Intergalactic Combined Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.28 06:25:00 -
[2]
Assuming its deadspace. In my opinion, that would be a mistake. --------------
Director. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 06:31:00 -
[3]
All exploration sites are deadspace.
The problem is that they are moving ALL belts to deadspace, but you warp in 30k off the belt. This forces you to use Jetcans and opens you up to Griefers/thieves. I stopped using Jetcans long ago as I didn't want to be a target for those griefers, it was also the ONLY advice you got when complaining about them.
Running a barge 30k to get to a rock takes forever. Then if you DC you have a 50/50 chance of being warped back to the entrance again.
Seems this change, without blocking drones/cans is forcing miners to become targets again.
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Stakhanov
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.04.28 09:09:00 -
[4]
Wrecks and cans can't be scanned... duh
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.04.28 09:27:00 -
[5]
Well, I doubt that they would leave gsc as they are if all belts moved to exploration sites.
Besides, you're likely skipping over a couple evolutionary steps. I just can't see them turning off all the belts one day and making it all exploration. What would the noobs mine?
It would also raise the entry level skills for basic mining. People would have to start hiring guys like me just to find a site. Or do what everyone else does and nerf all possible mini-professions with their friggen alts.
Also, there's been mention of system wide belts. So maybe they're planning on only high end roids being in exploration sites with the low ends in these huge belts. Who knows.
Bottom line is it's way too soon to worry about it.
------------------- Say What? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.28 09:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Stakhanov Wrecks and cans can't be scanned... duh
Drones can though.
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.28 10:13:00 -
[7]
You'll probably have everything other than veld and scord moved over to the exploration system, scord and veld would be used to populate system wide belts rather than a series of belts and various highler level roids (as well as those in exploration) would be randomly placed within the system wide belt, that requires quite alot of travel or good skills to find. It means to find the higher level stuff you have to either invest more time exploring or get someone to scan out sites with higher level ore. Balanced and doesn't cut the newbs out.
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot All exploration sites are deadspace.
The problem is that they are moving ALL belts to deadspace, but you warp in 30k off the belt. This forces you to use Jetcans and opens you up to Griefers/thieves. I stopped using Jetcans long ago as I didn't want to be a target for those griefers, it was also the ONLY advice you got when complaining about them.
Running a barge 30k to get to a rock takes forever. Then if you DC you have a 50/50 chance of being warped back to the entrance again.
Seems this change, without blocking drones/cans is forcing miners to become targets again.
Just cause the current exploration sites are dead space doesn't mean all exploration sites will always be dead space. And having conducted mining operations in dead space I can say without a doubt that moving all mining into dead space would be an immensely painful thing for CCP to do and frankly it seems unlikely that it will go down that way.
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 28/04/2007 11:22:00
I guess you all need to read the blog... Linkage
Originally by: "CCP Greyscale" Remove Asteroid Belts...
...and replace them with exploration content. This is a big deal and will not be happening in the immediate future. We know itÆs a big, sweeping change that will affect most of you in one way or another, but we think itÆs a good idea if itÆs done properly.
What weÆre currently considering is removing all belts and seeding a whole load of new mining exploration sites. The ôcommonö ones will be easy to find with the Onboard Scanner, so you wonÆt need any special kit to find them. The rarer ones will still rely on hard-to-find exploration sites, although what counts as ôcommonö or ôrareö obviously depends on the security status. The frequency of Encounters will be increased too, and faction/officer spawns added into them to give similar profit potentials to hunting NPCs under the current system.
Having them in deadspace is not a problem for me as I've been scanning and mining in deadspace for a while now. What will be a problem is having the griefers popping in when you are mining the normal ores for quantity. Forcing warp-ins to 30km off the roids is going to force the use of Jetcans. Forcing the use of Jetcans is forcing us to participate in the griefers game.
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Kilostream
Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:26:00 -
[10]
This is bad.
This is cancelling subs, filing eve for one of those "hey do you remember...." conversations and getting on with real life sorta bad.
What's worse is it at the price of screwing us the players over, it will make no damn difference to server load - look at the bookmarks - we were being told for years they were the cause of all our problems, now they are gone - still as laggy as ever - now it's the belts and plexes? come off it!!
Well, ccp will do what ccp will do, the summer of eve had to come to an end someday.
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Elmicker
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:31:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Elmicker on 28/04/2007 11:28:01 If you mine somewhere quiet, you're likely to never have a can stolen. Speaking as a hulk pilot who mines in a system who's local never hits 10, i have never had a can stolen. The worst i've experienced is someone stealing 1 unit of veldspar in an attempt to get me to try and shoot them.
But besides that, i agree with you. Using deadspace complexes for mining forces you to sacrifice a huge chunk of your efficiency as your haulers must spend a stupid amount of time going between the warp in and the can. And thats only if you've got a dedicated hauler, what if you have to switch ships every hour, and then waste half of the next hour flying that 30km?
Aside from that, i quite like the rest of the dev blog, especially the removal of static complexes. My only possible problem is what impact the removal of belts will have on ratting in 0.0, both the pvp and carebear aspects. It'll make it more difficult to yarr a random ratter and his raven, but it might also put a big dent in profit margins of said random ratter, as it'd remove his ability to chain spawns.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Elmicker
But besides that, i agree with you. Using deadspace complexes for mining forces you to sacrifice a huge chunk of your efficiency as your haulers must spend a stupid amount of time going between the warp in and the can. And thats only if you've got a dedicated hauler, what if you have to switch ships every hour, and then waste half of the next hour flying that 30km?
What are you people on about? I haven't tracked down tons of grav sites, but the ones I have, none of them have a warp gate. You can BM right next to your rock of choice, just like a normal belt. What makes you think that would change?
I think you guys are getting yourselves worked up over nothing.
------------------- Say What? |
Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: Elmicker
But besides that, i agree with you. Using deadspace complexes for mining forces you to sacrifice a huge chunk of your efficiency as your haulers must spend a stupid amount of time going between the warp in and the can. And thats only if you've got a dedicated hauler, what if you have to switch ships every hour, and then waste half of the next hour flying that 30km?
What are you people on about? I haven't tracked down tons of grav sites, but the ones I have, none of them have a warp gate. You can BM right next to your rock of choice, just like a normal belt. What makes you think that would change?
I think you guys are getting yourselves worked up over nothing.
Wrong, ALL grav sites are fixed warp in points. Theres not a single Grav site where you can warp direct to your can/rock. They don't have gates but they are still in deadspace with fixed warp in points.
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lles
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:54:00 -
[14]
Edited by: lles on 28/04/2007 11:50:48 The guy who thinked this out must be on dope.
The server load will not change, we all know that. Looks like the real reasons for doing this are not given.
Probably to limit the amount of ores/minerals to build capitals and keeping those fleets small.
Can you imagine how long it will take now to mine to build a titan?
Mining is the only thing in the game what you can do to relax in eve, login a couple empire alts and have a chat with your mates, earning a couple mil...
The thing they have to remove is staff thats not able to run a smooth game and messing it up trying to make things better...
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:56:00 -
[15]
I actually think it's an excellent idea, it's just not very refined yet. It needs a LOT of discussion to get right, like eliminating griefers and not forcing the use of Jetcans.
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Elve Sorrow
Amarr Shinra
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 28/04/2007 11:55:54
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot I actually think it's an excellent idea, it's just not very refined yet. It needs a LOT of discussion to get right, like eliminating griefers and not forcing the use of Jetcans.
You want 100% security while mining? All this change in its current state will do is make it so you CANNOT be killed. Manually scanning someone down is hard enough before they warp. Now try scanning with a 4 AU limit, and having to roll a bloody dice before you get a result aswell.
Also, it's not 'griefing', its PvP. Griefing is killing 1 day old chars using can flagging in Jita.
EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it. |
Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 12:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 28/04/2007 11:55:54
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot I actually think it's an excellent idea, it's just not very refined yet. It needs a LOT of discussion to get right, like eliminating griefers and not forcing the use of Jetcans.
You want 100% security while mining? All this change in its current state will do is make it so you CANNOT be killed. Manually scanning someone down is hard enough before they warp. Now try scanning with a 4 AU limit, and having to roll a bloody dice before you get a result aswell.
Also, it's not 'griefing', its PvP. Griefing is killing 1 day old chars using can flagging in Jita.
I suggest you re-read the Blog (if you havn't already). Common ore belts will not require scan probes, only the use of the FREE built in scanner thats going to be added to all ships. If I'm forced to open myself up and use Jetcans then I expect some change so that I can remain as safe as I currently am. I'm not asking to be safer or anything, I just want the same level of safety that I enjoy currently.
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Elve Sorrow
Amarr Shinra
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Posted - 2007.04.28 12:10:00 -
[18]
I've read the blog. Have you read all Greyscale's replies in the blog discussion thread? They're quite worthwile.
Point is you want to be as safe as you are now. But as it stands you're already near 100% safe if you watch local. Essentially, yo're already too safe.
Ofcourse, i'm not sure why i'm trying to convince someone who sees PvP as griefing of this fact.
EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it. |
Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.04.28 12:13:00 -
[19]
In designing something like this the main concern is going to be maintaining game balance, thus it will be as much like the current system as possible. Some things we can infer from this.
1: Generic belts won't be in dead spaces. 2: Generic belts will be dead easy to find. 3: The general ore distribution will be virtually identical to current.
You end up with a system where instead of warping to a belt from the right click menu, you warp to a belt from the results list of the built in scanner. The belt will be much like belts are currently, except the roids won't regrow, instead at DT if a belt is mostly played out it will be removed and another new one added somewhere else.
CCP is not interested in breaking the game, if something looks like the end of Eve then you are over thinking it, each change is small and measured which is why it takes them so f-ing long to fix broken game mechanics.
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Temerlyn
Minmatar STK Scientific Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.04.28 12:28:00 -
[20]
What needs to happen, and yes an opinion more than anything else.
Remove the mentality that we need to mine excesive amounts to produce anything.
Instead the ores we mine need to be higher yeild, much higher. Then have the high end ores harder to find. What this is about is less time to actualy mine and remove the grind of the mining. While this concept would move the grind over the the searching more than the mining some one who is doing the grinding search can find alot more than just mining sites they can find almost everything within the game making the exploration far, far more interesting.
The only thing that makes this bad is we are used to the way things are atm. IMO this is how it should of been from the get go.
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.28 12:35:00 -
[21]
Edited by: ToxicFire on 28/04/2007 12:31:38
Originally by: Tolomea In designing something like this the main concern is going to be maintaining game balance, thus it will be as much like the current system as possible. Some things we can infer from this.
1: Generic belts won't be in dead spaces. 2: Generic belts will be dead easy to find. 3: The general ore distribution will be virtually identical to current.
You end up with a system where instead of warping to a belt from the right click menu, you warp to a belt from the results list of the built in scanner. The belt will be much like belts are currently, except the roids won't regrow, instead at DT if a belt is mostly played out it will be removed and another new one added somewhere else.
CCP is not interested in breaking the game, if something looks like the end of Eve then you are over thinking it, each change is small and measured which is why it takes them so f-ing long to fix broken game mechanics.
If you look at it, its more of a system designed to break macro's rather than affect any normal player, it also allows area's to become dynamic and destroy the situation of big groups digging in, in certain system because of good number of belts and garunteed good ore. I quite suspect along with the new system of distribution there will be dynamic loading, ie if a system is regularly heavily mined it will suddenly become a dry system preventing large groups becoming static entities forcing territory conflicts. In reality the effect on miners, pirates and the mineral market would be negligible, perhaps a little cost increase due to extra time involved setting up and locating sites. Where as ratters is will probably have the greater effect on, unless the system wide belts become adequate substitutes for the loss of several belts
Though I do agree yeilds of ores need to be increased dramatically
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.04.28 12:47:00 -
[22]
There's a thread for discussing this here - I'm reading all the comments there and replying to the interesting ones, so if you have questions you want answering that's the place to post them
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 13:41:00 -
[23]
No need. Now you've posted here I know you've read it .
All I wished was to know you were aware of these issues.
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Pirlouit
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.04.28 16:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale There's a thread for discussing this here - I'm reading all the comments there and replying to the interesting ones, so if you have questions you want answering that's the place to post them
Thread locked and please discuss this issue in the linked thread. It make it easier on them to read one thread. Less waste of time search for thread = more time spent on fixing the issues yay
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