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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Khald
Gallente Armaments Board
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Posted - 2007.12.06 18:00:00 -
[301]
Skills should continue after your sibscription expires.
When you re-subscribe you can get the option of paying for the gap and getting the skill points or not paying for the gap and not getting the skill points. Everyone wins. CCP gets cash from legit payers and farmers have to keep accounts current.
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Amarr Holymight
deii feram Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.12.06 21:42:00 -
[302]
Guys you are arguing in circles, farmers don't need skill queues they dont have lives that's why they farm. A skill queue isn't gonna change the farming situation that's up to CCP. Also why do you care just enjoy the game let other people enjoy the game if it goes bust go find another a game to play. Bring on the skill queue.
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.12.07 00:34:00 -
[303]
sure signed
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McFly
Path of Light R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.07 08:35:00 -
[304]
/signed - web interface would be nice also... --
--my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance-- |
Connor Banks
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.07 12:50:00 -
[305]
A very important feature of EVE is the skill training system. This very important feature requires little effort from a subscriber. The effort needed is to log in and start training a new level of a skill or a completely new skill. Sometimes you need to log in often and sometimes weeks can pass without needing to log in. For this, in my opinion, very small effort you get a huge reward which is that you donĘt need to actively train your skills!
This brings me to the following. How can an adult person expect to get something in return without any effort? DonĘt YOU as an adult person know that anything in life worth getting costs something? All of you who want a skill queue system obviously think you should be equally rewarded as them players who actually take the time and effort to be online upon skill completion. Now, some of you will argue that you pay real life money to play this game and thus are entitled to a skill queue. This is, in my opinion, the same as arguing for a feature where I should be able to pre-set how my ship should behave in various situations. This also is a no go from my point of view!
Of course I understand most of EVE players, me included, have a real life and everything that goes along with it, family, work, trips, etc. Since we live in the 21st century I strongly believe a skill manager via the browser will resolve most issues, if not all, regarding skill advancement without a skill queue. Skill completion during unexpected down time is a special case from which all players eventually suffer from.
Actually, the only reason for a skill queue system is unexpected downtime because that is the one and only thing in EVE you cannot control and align with rest of your life. Some will argue that reason alone is enough for implementing a skill queue. I donĘt agree with that! Why? Unexpected downtime affects more than skill advancement. Unexpected downtime can occur on that very day which is the only day during that week you actually have time to spend a few hours and play the game. Would this be a reason to argue for an extrapolation system which calculates the amount of ISK you should have earned? Or the number of players you should have killed?
To conclude: NO to a skill queue and YES to a skill manager via a browser!
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Valera Schwert
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Posted - 2007.12.07 15:50:00 -
[306]
A skill manager via browser would be the same as a skill queue. It's easy to write a script that acts like an IE or FF that can start/stop the training of a skill. And there we have a skill queue again.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.12.07 16:40:00 -
[307]
So much quote wars in those forums...
Always the great fear of macro, farmers and more : all the unholy words that should make a stop to any useful idea!
-If there's a skill queue, everyone will have it, so it can't be unfair to anyone.
-If the issue is with people having months of skills left and cancelling subscribtion, then, the account deactivation procedure should just cancel all skill training and plans.
Now, everyone should stop with the unholy words and think how it improves or it is indifferent to their gameplay.
Saying no to something that is not useful to you is a nonsense, it can be useful to someone else. Let me find an equivalent situation : -You fly only race A ships. -New ships are going to be made for all races for a profession as gas cloud harvesting. => You say no to gas cloud harvesting ships of races B, C and D because you don't want to use them.
It is the exact same situation here : -You manage your skill plans with tools allowing you for skill changes at the time you can play, and you are never away, you are always back on time from work/school or you are just always at home. -Skill queue is being added. => You say no to skill queue because you don't want to use it.
The fact is : When something is not useful for you, others will like it and use it.
Let those who want something useful for them ask for it and don't troll with false 'good' reasons. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Amarr Holymight
deii feram Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:36:00 -
[308]
Quote: Saying no to something that is not useful to you is a nonsense, it can be useful to someone else.
Yes this I agree with it seems all the neersayers aren't going to be affected by skillqueue so why all the detriment. Connor didn't you read about the skill queues that only have one skill in it or like most people here just read from the original post and gambled that most people here don't have anything intelligent to say on the matter.
I came to a quandry the other day when the server was going down for 24 hours I only had one skill (from my plan) longer than a day available to me unless I decided to sidetrain for something ugh. I ended up having to partially train a 24 day skill that I won't finish/need for about three months. In this time I coulda trained for something more pertinent to my immediate needs. So these two days were slightly wasted. The last time the server crashed I lost 16 hours training cause it crashed on a friday and I couldn't reasonbably log on til the Saturday afternoon. Overall that's two and a half days off my current plan. These are my reasons for wanting merely a one skill backup plan why would you prevent me and I'm sure a lot of other people in the same boat this? Am I being childish me thinks not.
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Wardo21
The Arcanum
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Posted - 2007.12.07 20:59:00 -
[309]
I am so glad this game doesn't use kills -> XP -> better skills training metrics.
I would even be happy if the system just selected the same skill at the next level if you missed the opportunity to login and change it. Not sure what the logic would be for a skill just completing level 5, but that's a minor detail. I would even settle for a system that just looked for the first partially trained skill and started that one next. You want to queue up 5-6 skills, then train them for a minute each and logoff.
From a game fluff point of view, I'm stuck in a pod full of goo 23-7 (ambulation aside), apparently getting some intense REM sleep during the downtime... Also, I have this nifty AI in my ship/pod that does all the tutorials and whatnot. Can't she remind me when it's time to select another skill. Furthermore the training is plugged directly into my head through the neural link to the ship, so can't the ships computer be setup to sequence the skills I want to learn???
There is a disconnect between the game world realities (fluff) and the user interface we interact with to play the game.
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Connor Banks
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.08 11:16:00 -
[310]
Wardo21, if EVE is so advanced as you say why arent there pre-setups for PVE and PVP situations which are executable with pushing a single keyboard button, like "if a battleship drops from warp nearby i should immediatly align with nearest station and warp out"? Why cant you save a couple of ship setups which you then load from the main frame? Why arent there....all those reasons are explained with: eve is not a make-a-script-and-go-to-sleep-game...that includes a skill queue.
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Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2007.12.09 18:16:00 -
[311]
\Signed
It doesn't surprise me that there are people naysaying this who clearly have no real life, like to pretend they are hardcore by bashing those asking for more convenient features, and can be on all hours of the day to train a skill. What it usually translates into is 'I gained something better because of having loads of time to train, and I don't want others to gain that as well'. Well the world of EVE may well be unfair, but there's a thin line between unfair and offputting.
If I have one that finishes at 3 am, it's my fault for not being hardcore enough to get up to change it? Alternatively I'm reduced to micro-managing my skills to try and get them complete whilst matching the few times I can be on to set them during the week. This isn't playing the game, it's making the game frustrating and slower. I'm not able to play the game at those times, yet I have to try and get on to manage skills? Who wants to do that?
If CCP wishes to continue to appeal to mature players who do have other things to do (like sleep and work) then a skill queue of some form of at least 1 skill to follow the currently training one is a must, and has no impact on the game whatsoever.
If I want to achieve the levels for a given ship, in an ideal world I could achieve it in, say, a couple of weeks. With all the micro-managing crap, I'm lucky if it's a month because I (understandably and fairly I think) want to utilise all available time to train, yet can't just train those specific skills because they don't fit with my real world times. In the mean time, some kid is able to train up skills more efficiently due to having no life, and so can be more effective sooner than me simply due to having more time? Really fair.
CCP needs to answer a simple question - do they mean to make the skill system fair to all players, or skew it in favour of those who can be on all the time? If it's the latter, I don't see why I bothered subscribing, as I've already lost out compared even to my peers. Someone once reviewed EVE as a great game, poorly implemented. It's missing features like these that give rise to that sort of comment.
I don't particularly care how it's implemented as long as I can either a) from anywhere in the world just using a web browser pick a next skill, or b) set up a short-term queue. I'd have plenty of time for the idea of EVEMon being able to set skills as well as simulate them.
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2007.12.10 08:56:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Connor Banks For this, in my opinion, very small effort you get a huge reward which is that you donĘt need to actively train your skills!
Wait a second, you actually think that getting SP for time is a REWARD?
It's an inherent attribute of the game, not a reward or punishment or anything of the sort. It just is. We don't do anything to get SP, we just get them.
The cost we pay is that we have to wait, not that someone(or something) has to start the game and click a button. -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner. |
Connor Banks
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.10 18:21:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
We don't do anything to get SP, we just get them.
Fail! You have to log in or be online to start training a skill. Those who actually do that are rewarded with skill points dumbass.
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Connor Banks
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:22:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Valera Schwert A skill manager via browser would be the same as a skill queue. It's easy to write a script that acts like an IE or FF that can start/stop the training of a skill. And there we have a skill queue again.
The skill manager would of course be a tool accessible only from EVE Online homepage. You would then have to log in and click your way around similarly to the way you do in the character sheet ingame. So, NO, skill managing via a browser would not allow for scripting and thus is not equal to a skill queue.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:24:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Connor Banks
Originally by: Valera Schwert A skill manager via browser would be the same as a skill queue. It's easy to write a script that acts like an IE or FF that can start/stop the training of a skill. And there we have a skill queue again.
The skill manager would of course be a tool accessible only from EVE Online homepage. You would then have to log in and click your way around similarly to the way you do in the character sheet ingame. So, NO, skill managing via a browser would not allow for scripting and thus is not equal to a skill queue.
A web interface that would not allow for scripting? Would you require us to read an image each time we log on the eve site? Make a web interface and skill planners programs will just connect and switch the skill.
The fact we have to log and click on the skill improves the gameplay and the eve universe? This is the worse excuse I heard for not having a skill queue.
People just connect switch skill, log off when they don't have time to play. How is this positive for the eve community? Explain me. Wouldn't it be better that their skill changes automatically and that they only come when they play for real?
We pay to play, we don't pay for skills, or we are not players. As the improvements are for players and not anyone else, adding a skill queue would limit the average player hassle when it comes to skill training. Explain me how it is negative or not an improvement. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Mayobe
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Posted - 2007.12.14 05:04:00 -
[316]
Skill queue? Sure! Then I don't have to feed that monkey I stole from the zoo and keep locked in my basement.
/signed
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Fang Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.14 09:34:00 -
[317]
I've read a lot of posts about this and I for one am all for it!
I used to work 12 hours shifts 5 days a week at a job one and 1.5 hours, my life for those days went as follows wake up, get dressed leave for work, get off work, eat, go home, shower, sleep. So yeah maybe I do have that extra minute to log on and change my skills... and my days off I can train the shorter skills. But really what options does that leave me? Ok so I want to train for heavy assault lt ships, its sunday the start of my work week. OH no nothing fits in 24 hours... or heck maybe i can get up a bit earlier from my normal 6-7 hours of sleep! No wait nothing overlaps 15 hours that I need. WELL might as well train Frigate V until thursday.... Couple weeks of that and guess what frigate V is done... weeks go by now everything I got left is under 12 hours because I've had to keep switching though skills and now I've started training into skill groups I don't even want or need. Ok so now I just start eating the lost time, I then end up with a character who is 10 months old with 5m sp, and cant do much of what I want him to do.
I know my case was a bit dramatic and even with a queue I would need to do some work around and take some sp hits. Now in some other MMORPGS sure I wouldn't be very high level due the fact I'd actually have to be there but the character would go in the direction I really wanted to without jumping through extra hoops. Now I already know some of you are going to come back and say "Well go play those then" well I don't want to! I love EVE. Really that has never been a wise argument in my book, imagine if they all did go play something else? Eve would be quite empty
These days I work 8 hours at a job 5 minutes away. I recycled my first pilot (Which never made it into a HAC btw) and now with my new one I am able to work out training a lot smother building the pilot I really want and am able to actually enjoy the game ALOT more. Oh last bit. no computer access at my old job. As I'm sure it is for thousands of other eve players so how does a browser based skill change help the situation?
I hope for some of you nay sayers this puts things into a little more perspective as to why some times it's not possible to be there. It's not always about being lazy or not good enough to work it in it's about the game and being able to play our characters the way we WANT them to develop instead of training remote armor rep to 80% of level V when you really want to finish those 6 hours of drones V and cant do so untill 4 days which means maybe next week I could actually train heavy drones up to 3 and get 4 a couple weeks from that beacause nothing else fits into your schedule!
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.12.14 09:47:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Mayobe Skill queue? Sure! Then I don't have to feed that monkey I stole from the zoo and keep locked in my basement.
/signed
I couldn't get my cat to do that... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Yuri Mengeroth
Minmatar Very Bad Things
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Posted - 2007.12.16 01:14:00 -
[319]
I would totally settle for a browser-based skill manger... as long as the site wasn't blocked by the proxy at work like this one is! =================================================== Yuri |
velocity7
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Posted - 2007.12.16 01:30:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Yuri Mengeroth I would totally settle for a browser-based skill manger... as long as the site wasn't blocked by the proxy at work like this one is!
This and /signed
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Yuri Mengeroth
Minmatar Very Bad Things
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Posted - 2007.12.27 00:03:00 -
[321]
Edited by: Yuri Mengeroth on 27/12/2007 00:04:27 so... when will this go from the Drawing Board to In Development? Seems to be quite a popular idea... I mean it takes MUCH less whining to get a swing of the nerf bat. |
Dela Darkinna
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Posted - 2007.12.28 15:06:00 -
[322]
Really need this because sometimes even the longest skill training doesn't cover the afk time, at least not mine during the holidays.
Happy New Year.
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kelvinnunn
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Posted - 2007.12.31 00:53:00 -
[323]
loadsa posts here but have we got any replies from CCP i am currently serving queen and country in the sands and cannot log onto game as there is allsorts of blocks and software gizmos that stop it (not much of a computer hatchet man) still a paying member of the Eve community yet i still dont seea skill which will take an 8 month training window. i know im not the only person who spends time away (not 2 week hols) so surely CCP should be giving us an answer here( cmon throw us a frikkin bone hey) any kinda way that even changing the skill via webpage -through character sheet on that- as already mentioned would be great
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Kailahn
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Posted - 2008.01.02 13:24:00 -
[324]
Edited by: Kailahn on 02/01/2008 13:42:34 Edited by: Kailahn on 02/01/2008 13:36:05 here's an idea. i haven't read the entire thread, so maybe its been mentioned before though.
have a 'vacation mode' if you are going to be away for a few weeks, or months, or whatever, you set a list of skills for the queue and a length for your vacation. then you activate the 'vacation mode', and are logged off. logging in before your set vacaction time is up results in losing whatever skill points were accumulated during the vacation, or possibly something not quite as harsh. if your subscription expires, only the skill that is training at the time finishes
other than something like that, i really dont think a queue is necessary
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.01.02 14:00:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Kailahn Edited by: Kailahn on 02/01/2008 13:42:34 Edited by: Kailahn on 02/01/2008 13:36:05 here's an idea. i haven't read the entire thread, so maybe its been mentioned before though.
have a 'vacation mode' if you are going to be away for a few weeks, or months, or whatever, you set a list of skills for the queue and a length for your vacation. then you activate the 'vacation mode', and are logged off. logging in before your set vacaction time is up results in losing whatever skill points were accumulated during the vacation, or possibly something not quite as harsh. if your subscription expires, only the skill that is training at the time finishes
other than something like that, i really dont think a queue is necessary
So, if you ever get home one day earlier, you can't play eve because you set the vacation mode or you will loose skillpoints? Sincerely, this simple thought sucks. When I find a computer where I can install eve while on holidays, I install and connect even just to say hi. But I can't be sure in advance if I can do this, so if I set your vacation mode, I should not connect, and if I don't set it and find a computer, I'm as before, not able to learn skills... It's unneeded complications.
We need a very very simple thing : -Adding skills in a list as we add waypoints and have the same move up, move down, remove logic. Just a prerequired check (including skils in the list) to be added to this logic and it's cool. AND -The skills should just stop (cancel all training) when subscribtion ends (stop playing 'who can set the longuest skill when disabling his account' game).
No more no less, real life always catches you at some point and you can't set your skills, may you be on holidays, on travel for work or a soldier away for months, if you keep paying for your account, having skills train without having to connect to the (heavy and not firewall friendly) eve client is a minimum, you already can't play, at least you would know that after your time away, you will discover new things in eve. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Mortor Calieph
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Posted - 2008.01.03 18:14:00 -
[326]
There is one thing at the top of my list when I consider this topic; how can this be abused ? If the risks are acceptable then the topic or enhanced topic will be a nice benefit to CCP and the player base.
After thinking about this for a while I think that with the accepted API protocol for viewing skills leading the way, an expanded protocol for setting skills offline can be implemented without uproar. I favor keeping an interval (15 mins?)between accesses for server load reasons.
Only players with active accounts should be able to use the skill setting / queueing serve, of course. There is no downside for CCP or players. In fact, I suspect a good chunk of the player base logs in briefly many times just to make skill changes. Implementing this idea with offline access will most likely, if only a little, improve server performance and allow more active players access instead of facing server logon queues, reduce some lag, etc.
I am not seeing a "cheat" factor here. A player pays for an account and uses the account in a fashion that does nothing to interfere with other players' experiences. The skill system is set up for offline activity the only difference is not using the full client to access a feature of the game. The account is paid for, the client is essentially free to download so there is no monetary loss for CCP if 3rd party programs allow for API writes.
How can this be abused ? If the full API key or normal user/password (undetermiend access method at this time) is hijacked, skills can be messed with - at the least.
However, this is acceptable risk because it is the same risk players have whenever they log on.
I realize a web interface / 3rd party should use https or similar protocols for the handshaking (as should the current API interface). This concept can be expanded for more "admin" type actions such as transferring isk between wallets. Examples abound for the benefits with no downside such as a possible cheat that can directly affect another player's experience; e.g., CEO on vacation does some skill flips with his java enabled cell phone on the beach then remembers to transfer some corp isk from the master wallet to the POS budget. He then checks some eve-mail, replies to a few then checks some market items and places a few orders.
All the above I consider administration type actions though the market example may be considered interfering with other players at a certain level. The player is not out killing other players, mining or generating isk in an active fashion, not able to go get deliveries. Basically, what is allowed is the same as what can be done while sitting docked. Hmmm CCP..."Remote Dock" ;)
Any way, that pretty much sums my take on the offline functions of skills and a few more features.
Good Hunting !
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Vladimir Titov
Minmatar Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.01.03 18:36:00 -
[327]
Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 03/01/2008 18:42:01
Originally by: Connor Banks
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
We don't do anything to get SP, we just get them.
Fail! You have to log in or be online to start training a skill. Those who actually do that are rewarded with skill points dumbass.
Jesus almighty I have not laughed that hard in a long time!
On a more serious note, I would love a skill training queue. It would solve a whole lot of problems. For me, the problem is that its down time around the time I have to leave for work, so I can't log in and check quickly if I have to change something before work. Also, farmers should not be a factor. They pilot their chars in shifts, and are on 23/7, so they are already not losing any skill time. Man I regularly play the game and I would love this feature. No more getting up at 5:45am to check if I need to change anything before I go to work at 7 am - I could just get up at 6:30am. That whole 45 minutes of sleep makes a big difference. No more going bed, about to go to sleep, when I begin to wonder if I have a skill that will finish while I am sleeping. Do I sleep? Do I drag myself out of bed and double check?
A skill queue would be one of those features that really could improve the quality of life for a player.
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Tmarte
Caldari BODA-BOOM
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Posted - 2008.01.03 19:12:00 -
[328]
How about this added to it, only people with paying accounts, NOT TRIAL ACCOUNTS, can use the skill queue.
I also like the ISK sink too. For each skill in the queue, you have to pay something like 100x it's skill rank per hour that it's queued up. rank 5 skill for 2 days, 240k isk, but if you have something like 5 skills in the queue, all rank 5, then you pay 2500 per hour they are queued. I mean numbers are arbitray, they would have to scale properly, i mean a person who's training a rank 12 skill should be able to fork over enough money to have it in the queue.
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kelvinnunn
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Posted - 2008.01.04 08:08:00 -
[329]
a quick bump for this topic trying desperately to get a CCP view on this soon as i am in Iraq just now and have a skill about to finish!! without having to phone some of my mates to change them for me (not the done thing i know)i pannicking!! C'MON CCP please just a skill changer facility on my character sheet which i can access on eve homepage thats all!!
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.01.04 10:33:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Tmarte How about this added to it, only people with paying accounts, NOT TRIAL ACCOUNTS, can use the skill queue.
I also like the ISK sink too. For each skill in the queue, you have to pay something like 100x it's skill rank per hour that it's queued up. rank 5 skill for 2 days, 240k isk, but if you have something like 5 skills in the queue, all rank 5, then you pay 2500 per hour they are queued. I mean numbers are arbitray, they would have to scale properly, i mean a person who's training a rank 12 skill should be able to fork over enough money to have it in the queue.
Why people think it needs to cost isk? I still can't figure why you think it this way. It's casual player unfriendly and using isk is just even more farmer friendly, their income are so high that it's peanuts when it will just hurt hard casual players.
Maybe autopilot should cost isk and opening our hangar and docking at a station, and opening eve too? Leave the isk sinks to people who know what they're talking about, leave it to CCP's economist (I won't write his name here, how bad I would scorch his name is really bad). We already can't have interest rates on our sleeping wallets, if you're searching for things closer to reality, there are always banks ready to take your money and make it work in exchange of a few bucks. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
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