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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Master Han
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
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Posted - 2007.09.23 20:56:00 -
[961]
First off, I love invention! I have all the skills, all interfaces, and 8 R&D agents(2 accounts). I think getting rid of lottery was good. My only issue with the current invention system is the ship invention and decryptor acquisition process. I think an RP store would also be nice.
Ship Invention - using a ship does not seem to affect the process, whereas adding a ship should, due to cost compared to modules and the unavailability of named ships.
Decryptors - maybe give these out for storyline missions or make available through LP store.
RP Store - make an RP store for each flavor of research, i.e. a Rocket Science RP store to purchase datacores, decryptors, negative value ME/PE BPCs.
Lastly, if there was a process to invent/buy a BPO, it should require a T1 BPO, 50 T1 modules or 20 T1 ships, 100 of both required datacores or 300 of each for ships, some decryptors and should be bought using LP from one on the corps that have R&D agents. This would make access easier for industry types rather than hardcore lvl 4 combat mission runners in a Raven with no science skills.
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LukeSzkajvoker
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Posted - 2007.09.24 12:43:00 -
[962]
Edited by: LukeSzkajvoker on 24/09/2007 12:45:30 Hi,
I just want to ask if I'm a matarr character I have much more chance to be successfull in matarr inventions? I mean if I use matarr decryptors (I'm using allways that type which gives me more shance to be success especially assembly instruction, installation guide...) I'm allways successfull in matarr ship invention. But if I use the same type caldari decryptor it's good when I get 1 successfull invention job about 8-10 caldari ship invention job. The matarr and caldari skills are at the same level. Is it a bug with the lottery system or is this the normal way may be there are differenties in the shance incrising dectryptors?
regards ---Luke---
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Marille
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Posted - 2007.09.25 18:40:00 -
[963]
Edited by: Marille on 25/09/2007 19:24:56 Edited by: Marille on 25/09/2007 19:15:38 I don't understand why so many people keep insisting that invention at current state its not profitable ?? Whats your interest ?? Hmm this is very puzzling for me since i've been doing invention for 2 or 3 months now and made a few bilions profit out of it, now perhaps you think thats less ?? well its good enough for me , i dont have to worry about ratting or mining to provide my main with ships to go pvp , all i do is put those jobs in and wait for the isk to come out. I agree invention as it is atm needs lot of improvement but still it is very profitable. Do i want the t2 bpo's out ?? Yes ..why ? simple cause in my current state will probably take me years to get my hands on a T2 bpo without buying it, wich certanly has me at disadvantage as inventor since ill never be able to compete with a T2 bpo owner, he will always control prices on market and can force me to eventually sell at a loss...will T2 prices rise after that ? probably but the market will stabilise at one point . Still i dont think invention at current state will be able to supply the current market , first i think datacores should be purchased with much less RP cost in order to be able to satisfy the increase demand. If T2 bpo's go down everyone will turn to invention ,( wich is a scary thought...last days i noticed some changes in price for interface alignment chart a +9 runs caldari decryptor, somone basically bought a lot of them of the market making the price jump from 350k to 1.5 mil even more, imagine that on a larger scale ) i dont think the current market for datacores and decryptors will be able to keep up with the demand , i think that decryptor will be the most serious issue ,so they should also be purchased from LP store of each faction , this way ill be able to supply my self without thinking ( hmm what if none goes to farm sites for a week to provide me with decryptors?) these are stats to prove that invention is profitable( my skills are at lvl 4 atm both primary and secondary i invent only certain ships and modules), there are lots of stuff out there wich are not worth inventing , and there are stuff that provide more profit margin. ship :kestrel rezulting invention manticore decryptor used -interface alignment chart (+9 runs) datacores -2x mech eng , 2x cald,st.eng base item-kestrel 1 bpc kestrel -30 runs total value in isk - aprox . 4.5 to 5 mil invested in 1 job. I usually have 9 jobs every 1 day and few hours from wich i get some time 1 succesful job sometimes 2 even 3 , i will round up 2 succesful jobs for 2 days of work. isk invested 5 milx 9 jobs -45 mil total resulting invention 2 bpc's manticore with 10 runs each (me -8 pe -4)market value of 360 mil ( rounded up to 18 mil/unit), build cost almost 6 mil/unit = 120 mil for 20 runs...360 mil - 120 mil(build cost)-45 mil(lost isk with inventing)= 195 mil profit/1 day and few hours of inventing. lets make 195 mil every 5 days(taking into account the build time ) and you still get 1.1 bil profit/month...without doing NOTHING you just put the job in , take it out and build it, so forget about countless hours of mining or ratting this sounds better for me. hope my numbers makes sense. This is just an example but there are many more out there such as: is more profitable to invent command ships with +4 runs decryptors with high chance of succes and getting 5 runs( 2 succesful jobs from 10 with -4 me) then using the +9 runs decryptor and get 1 job with 10 runs and -8 me wich almost doubles production costs compared to the 5 runs bpc wich only has -4 me.But there is also something that really ****es me off although it happens very rare ...i put 9 jobs in and they all FAIL...this has to stop , i also noticed that if you put different jobs with different ships or modules you dont get nothing so dont do that and one more thing if i see manticore dropping in price next couple of weeks ill delete the example
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Kaaii
Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.09.26 11:47:00 -
[964]
Why can't we invent t2 code breakers or analyzers ?
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Sal Alo
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.09.28 03:22:00 -
[965]
1. Introduce T3 items; 2. People can make T3s by invention only; 3. T3 > T2. 4. T2 prices drop.
Next EvE problem to solve:
avoiding to lose 40 FPS every time I see a single NPC/Player ship.
1. ?
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Nordakr
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Posted - 2007.09.30 16:56:00 -
[966]
OK. I've not been playing this game all that long ... but I've played other games and - I know a Stupid Dev Trick (STD) when I see one. SDT's are Tricks played by the Developers on the Players in the mistaken assumption that people enjoy being messed with.
Here's a clue - no one enjoys being messed with.
This is how Invention should work:
1) Nothing is consumed in the Invention process unless it succeeds. If it fails - you simply take the materials you used the first time and try again. Turning the thing into a gamble - is nothing but an STD.
2) If a T1 BPO is used in the invention of a BP - it produces a T2 BPO. A copy produces a copy.
3) Rearch Points are used in the Invention Process to make things quicker or cheaper. a) You can use RP's as a substitute for a certain amount of ISK in purchasing anything connected with the Invention process such as Data Cores or Interfaces. b) You can speed up the process at the cost of a certain amount of RP's. c) If there are materials used in the process you can use less of them at the cost of RP's (similar to 'a' above). d) RP's may also be used in normal Manufacturing, Copying, PE & ME in the same way they are used in Invention, to make things quicker or cheaper. Essentially, you are taking the time you devoted to doing research to gain better access to the lab/factory and to use it more efficiently.
The surest sign that the Invention Process was an STD - was the lottery. The Lottery as an idea was asinine, just as losing your research materials in a failure IS asinine.
Invention and T2 BPO's should be a simple, straight forward game mechanic with no roulette wheel spinning about to decide your fortune. As anyone familiar with even basic statistics knows - if there's a specific chance of failure each time - your odds do NOT improve with each try. You stand just as good a chance of failing every single time - which means that you could theoretically NEVER succeed. Given the costs involved in this process - having a mechanic like that in the game - is nothing but an STD.
There should be no effort made to make T2 BPO's "Precious" - that type of thinking always results in an STD. They should simply be better, more expensive BPO's than the T1's. ME & PE done to the original T1 BPO/BPC should apply at some rate to the T2 BPO/BPC on which further ME & PE might also be done.
As it is right now - the Invention Process is broken. Yes ... you can use a broken process and there are testimonies here from people doing that. But just because a broken process can be used - doesn't mean it isn't broken.
One other aspect that might be added - would be the prospect of producing something other than the T2 version of the T1 BPO. BPO's of the Variations listed in the Show Info for related items might also be "invented" for a varying cost in time and materials.
*shrug*
You wanted some feed back - well there's mine.
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Marille
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Posted - 2007.10.01 16:03:00 -
[967]
Originally by: Nordakr This is how Invention should work: 1) Nothing is consumed in the Invention process unless it succeeds. If it fails - you simply take the materials you used the first time and try again. Turning the thing into a gamble - is nothing but an STD.
This is a very good ideea hope dev's will consider it .
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Poco Estudiante
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Posted - 2007.10.03 12:57:00 -
[968]
This thread has run for months - is there a very recent dev blog that summarizes CCP's current position?
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Ischia
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Posted - 2007.10.20 01:53:00 -
[969]
Originally by: Poco Estudiante This thread has run for months - is there a very recent dev blog that summarizes CCP's current position?
Yes please!
I could read 33 pages before adding my 0.02c, but it's quite probably that CCP have already done so, and addressed similar ideas.
A "State of the Nation: Invention" blog (or new thread) would be great. Especially if it summarizes what has been considered and either discarded or taken on board.
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Chepe Nolon
Inquest
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Posted - 2007.10.22 10:52:00 -
[970]
I did my first invention yesterday, and I will make a small profit, since I invented a popular item. But what will happen when everything should be invented? Will t2 bpos be available on the market when t3 items is introduced through invention? Or should t2 items become very expensive items produced from imperfect bpc's only? I guess some of the less popular items will never be seen on the market, unless you get more runs from the invention.
If t2 bpos will be public available, you solve the problem with the current bpos contra inventions. I'm a multiple bpo owner myself, and I see no problem with that, as invention should be the spearhead of new and shiny technology. Not a lucky number in a lottery.
Chepe Nolon -- |Guides for Mission runners|Kill Mission Survival Guides| |
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Aziza
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Posted - 2007.10.22 11:29:00 -
[971]
Please keep the BPO lottery. It's not contradicts an invention and it's fun. It's also balancing invention, which is not affordable and accessible ( on the serious level) to everyone.
If you allow only invetion to exists, it will lead to the same problems as were with the lottery. Biggest and most powerful corporations/alliances will control invention components market and therefore T2 market. I am surpirsed that nobody sees it.
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Thank you |
Slimmy
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.22 14:50:00 -
[972]
I'm in the boat with the idea of either adding back the lotto or even better...the system to invent a T2 BPO through invention/reverse engineering.
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Shichiro Motokana
Caldari THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:15:00 -
[973]
Originally by: Ky Vatta The main sticking point with the Invention idea, is that it only creates BPCs, and not BPOs, so negating any chances of researching Material/Production Efficiency!! Which would make it a nerf of research.......
Don't know if the research on the input BPCs matters at all in the output, but I'm guessing it doesn't. If it did, you could turn your BPOs into an endless stream of slightly-less-researched T2 BPCs at whatever the expense is to invent them. Finally, I might have a reason to research my BPOs beyond 20-25 ME or so. -7san |
Tenebrys
Promethean Industries R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.23 21:29:00 -
[974]
Edited by: Tenebrys on 23/10/2007 21:31:25
Originally by: Shichiro Motokana
Originally by: Ky Vatta The main sticking point with the Invention idea, is that it only creates BPCs, and not BPOs, so negating any chances of researching Material/Production Efficiency!! Which would make it a nerf of research.......
Don't know if the research on the input BPCs matters at all in the output, but I'm guessing it doesn't. If it did, you could turn your BPOs into an endless stream of slightly-less-researched T2 BPCs at whatever the expense is to invent them. Finally, I might have a reason to research my BPOs beyond 20-25 ME or so.
Research on input BPC has no effect, number of runs on the input BPC is the only variable that affects the resultant BPC. Material and time efficiency research levels tend to end up negative, as well -- and, most decryptors make these levels even worse.
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