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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:14:00 -
[1741]
Edited by: Baun on 10/02/2007 22:11:45
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
EVE will be 4 years old this year, and the Blog states there have been multiple of these situations, why wasnt this done MUCH MUCH earlier?
Becuase they don't care about actually policing themselves and protecting their customers, they only care that not doing so might cause them financial damage. They started "caring" the moment they were exposed and not one second before that.
If they cared they would have removed the BPOs when they found about about them. If they cared they would be completely transparent. If they cared they would not be lying to us and attempting to defuse the situation and deflect community concerns.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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aggro
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:15:00 -
[1742]
This is a question I had to do some research to get. Until reading the community response thread, I had not heard of a cynonet network and had to ask around to get some answers. As for the question itself...
sorry kieron please tell me you dont believe the cr*p you are writing.
If it is true what you wrote then you are so out of touch with the game you might as well be playing WOW.
Aggro hands kieron a spade to dig himself and ccp a bit deeper hole.
Where there is trouble you will always find AGGRO |
Mxa Weber
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:17:00 -
[1743]
Originally by: Fulber As an aside to the postcount torrent that is this thread, I'd just like to tip my hat to Kieron for actually tracking it, and supplying answers.
I won't touch upon the accuracy or validity of said answers however. Thank you Kieron for putting up with this monster.
What answer! In this cast he has posted 2 mails in 3 days. He hasent done anything to solve the problem. They have to do something. I have paid for a product that didn¦t met up to what is were said from CCP to be. I¦m actually thinking of starting a process to get some of my money back. Playing a rigged global ingame-war, where BOB will let the other parts win, will not set things right. (Yes I think CCP will let BOB get their ass kicked in the comming days, to "calm things down").
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Cyrus Ildemar
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:18:00 -
[1744]
Edited by: Cyrus Ildemar on 10/02/2007 22:14:37 Kieron, you ask for proof of cynonet account sharing. I have no idea what you would consider proof; the only possible proof of account sharing would be IP logs, and guess what? You have them, and there's no way for any other player to get them legally.
So here's an idea: look at them.
For instance, it is well known that SirMolle requires access to the account of every single member of Evolution. Seems like this would be easy to check; his IP address would be a pretty popular one in your logs if this is true.
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Luna Nilaya
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:22:00 -
[1745]
Originally by: John Tasker
Originally by: Dagrin RDM
Originally by: Azerrad InExile Since kieron is back answering questions:
Why weren't the T2 BPOs in question removed from the game when they were discovered??
Agreed, this is an extremely important question!
that`s an direct question, more luck in the lottery(no not the t2 lottery ;)) then getting a real reply wich makes sense
The answer is pretty obvious. If they would have done that, this scandal would have surfaced back then.
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Untogether Isis
Newtonian Constructs Inc
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:25:00 -
[1746]
On 3rd August 2006 at 20:07, in a thread discussing a particular officer fitted Scorpion (I'm sure those about at the time remember which one) Keiron wrote, and I quote:
"If the modules/ships/in-game items were attained illegally or made it into the game by a mistake, the GMs would remove those items. If the items were legal and legit, a GM would not interfere in your gameplay."
In the spawned-officer-fit-Scorpion debacle, one of the players who looted the dropped (and illegally spawned) mods was temp banned by CCP until all the mods were tracked down and removed from the game.
Can CCP please therefore explain as to why these BPOs, which CCP has admitted it has known about since Summer of this year, were not removed from the game at that time, in clear violation of the above statement and precedent set by CCP itself in similar circumstances.
(The orginal thread from which this quote is taken can be found here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=373936 )
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:26:00 -
[1747]
My wife says that "it's only a game", and that "everyone else is just jealous".
So ner ner ner.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Gritt Pebbledasher
Obsidian Asylum Pure.
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:32:00 -
[1748]
Originally by: Baun Becuase they don't care about actually policing themselves and protecting their customers, they only care that not doing so might cause them financial damage. They started "caring" the moment they were exposed and not one second before that.
Hit the nail on the head. This is why I believe that its only unsubscriptions that will produce anything like a proper response from CCP.
As for BoB - lets keep in mind that the real responsibility here lies with CCP who have an obligation to provide a level playing field on which we can build our corps and alliances but who appear instead to have chosen to apply favouritism to certain groups, irrespective of whether those entities asked for it or not.
If CCP take steps to get their house in order, we can always re-enable our subs which ought to provide some sort of incentive for them, while firmly leaving the ball in their court. I sincerely hope that they do choose to do the right thing.
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Dagrin RDM
Caldari The Knights of the New Republic Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:33:00 -
[1749]
I'm sure this will get modded, but I don't care anymore.
Do NOT so much as post a link to this thread in any other forum...it will disappear. And by a funny coincidence, the general discussion forum, which has the highest viewer traffic, has no mention of this threads existance anywhere.
So much for open communication with the playerbase.
(Admittedly, there is a link stickied in the CAOD forum, but tbh, most ppl who go there probably come here already anyway..it's the casual forum-users who are not allowed to learn about this.)
Originally by: Seroquel it takes a while to get use to the people in eve. they are a little too... friendly. sorta like the texas chainsaw massacre country folk friendly.
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Caius LiviusCerso
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:33:00 -
[1750]
Originally by: Egne Ver So if this is the only instance that you uncovered then it will be a complete surprise when the other 5 names are listed right?
What about all the ôeventsö that just happen to coincide with ôroad tripsö?
What about the rampant sharing of accounts brought to light from within RKK that violates the EULA?
Will rules change to allow this sharing to again benefit BOB?
Does ôremoved from the gameö mean the same thing as ôname and portrait changedö?
Oh and everything that BoB has ôaccomplishedö is suspect, so is everything they might ôaccomplishö. The news is out, several gaming magazines and sites have the story and are running it. Spin control will accomplish nothing at this point, its time for a house cleaning before its too late. This was known to be happening and more is coming out soon.
And why did their region get so many plexes that are good last patch?
And how could they change name of conquerable station in NOL?
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DarkMatter
Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:35:00 -
[1751]
My god...
I honestly think you all have to ask yourself a few questions:
1) Would you do what that DEV did if you had the power? (He was quite restrained in the BPO's he took IMO) How many of you take **** from work you know you're not supposed to?
2) Is the Alliance who gained those BPO's who they are because of that singular "event"? No, they could kick your ass without those BPO's anyways...
3) If this honestly bothers you that much, then just get on with it and leave, EVE will survive this...
IMO, I knew from day 1 stuff like this was going to happen. A bunch of guys made a game they intended to play, a lotà Some of them admitting to being PKÆers in another MMO, which portrays a certain type of play style/gamerà
I feel bad for the guys who lost their characters, that's insane...
If had my characters deleted after 4 years against my will, I'd want to kill someone...
Too many of you are playing up the wounded victim scenario here; you need to get over yourselves...
Building the homestead |
Hohenheim OfLight
Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:36:00 -
[1752]
only jsut found out abou this, but i guess its all true then bob is ccps ***** and eve is totally ****** and bob will win out, may as well jstu quit now or join bob and get it over with.
thanks a lot ccp, playing eve in god mod is hardley fair, it the begging it was roumer and now its cold hard truth what more is there to say :( ----------------------------------------------
Is mining for a hel mad? or just ambishus?
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Nils Bohr
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:38:00 -
[1753]
Originally by: Eron Lygera Because the community has decided that what ever a bob director/ceo/leader/member says they are lying.
That's a safe assumption. BoB's leadership haven't particularly shown themselves to be paragons of honesty on this issue.
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Korth
Amarr Serenity Technology
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:38:00 -
[1754]
For want of a nail the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost. For want of a horse the rider was lost. For want of a rider the battle was lost. For want of a battle the kingdom was lost. And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
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CPU
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:39:00 -
[1755]
To Sum Up:
1) Kieron should be commended for trying to come clean on this issue, and I expect that the slow response of CCP was a simple funtion of not being able to believe that a dev was cheating.
2) The dev in question, however valuable as an employee, really crossed the uncrossable line. The minimum punitive action should be a ban on him ever playing EvE again.
3) The alliance of said dev cheated and should be made low by all alliances who treasure EvE.
4) The whistleblower should be recognized and commended by all.
..
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Blackie Moldar
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:39:00 -
[1756]
OMG and I have wasted 2 years doing R&D missions with no t2 BPO offer. I am Not wasting 1 more minute trying to get the white ghost. (I give Up)Should have tryed to be on the dev team. hehe (I kid I kid)
I'm sure CCP is doing all they can to fix the problems but as many times before (will it be good enf)??
as Far as BoB everyone in game nows them as the powerhouse winning tornys hold large areas in )0.0 not to take anything away from them in anyway on what they have done in game. (BUT) for this when they clearly took advantage of what the devs can provide. we all now t2 BPO= isk
I'm not saying I quit the game. But CCP has lost my trust in the game in many areas. the Lottery is not a tapper free as they claimed. being fair that will never happen. even in this game. I still feel screwed over my cargo expander 1 BPO that was legit and in a lab at time they change them Now I have 2 cuz my basic changed But my lvl 1 never did. R&D toons have no place in this game. waste of time. my opinion.
Hope CCP can work hard on this cuz this is a big blow to 1 of the best games I have played. and the Black eye the dev or devs that have cause this. If they stay as a dev they clearly have issues in CCP land. err iceland
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:41:00 -
[1757]
Originally by: CPU To Sum Up:
1) Kieron should be commended for trying to come clean on this issue, and I expect that the slow response of CCP was a simple funtion of not being able to believe that a dev was cheating.
He definitely has a tough job but you should stop short of commending someone who is openly, branzely and repeatedly lying to us.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:41:00 -
[1758]
bob will pay for wat they did and what ccp did. because other than canceling subs there is no real way to force ccp's hand.
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Lucre
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:46:00 -
[1759]
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: kieron
Originally by: Various PlayersWhy were <players> from <corporation/alliance> not banned for account sharing due to being part of a cynonet network if t20 was managing the network of an alliance?
This is a question I had to do some research to get. Until reading the community response thread, I had not heard of a cynonet network and had to ask around to get some answers. As for the question itself...
It is my understanding that cynonet networks are a relatively new development in alliance warfare, primarily due to the recent commonness of dreads and carriers. I have been informed that t20's characters were removed from play before long before cynonetworks became common place and he was not aware of alleged account sharing.
If you had any credibility left, there it went. /me waves goodbye to it.
The *head* of the *capital fleet* of a *large* corporation was unaware of the existence of cynonets within his corporation and the account sharing that can accompany them? Are you alleging that he must simply not have been reading the forums of the corporation of which he was a director or am I miscontruing the only possible interpretation of what you just said? Was t20 playing with a blindfold on and earplugs in?
That is an outright, bald-faced, 100% lie. You would have been better of chanelling GM reimbursement petition replies and saying "our logs show no evidence of anything, sorry."
If you want to gain back trust start telling the truth, start being transparent. Offering up one dev for slaughter will not defuse this situation. You cannot regain what you once had by deflecting community concerns and offering up vacuous excuses and meaningless apologies.
QFT.
I'm sure that Trust for one will be fascinated to know how BoB moved all those dreadnoughts without a cyno network...
This just hurts now, as with every spadefull you're just digging the hole deeper and deeper. And meanwhile I hear people trying to alert other players to a wardec exploit which could cost them billions are having their posts deleted because "you can't discuss these things". For goodness sake, CCP, how can you be this blind to how this "keep them in the dark" attitude has to stop now if you're to retain any credibility?
-- I remember when "BS" in Eve used to stand for Battleship.
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Lori Carlyle
LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:48:00 -
[1760]
Originally by: Sigmorhair I was starting to feel a bit better about things, and had some small hope we were finally seeing an honest attempt to do the right thing from CCP.
Then I saw this from Keiron:
"It is my understanding that cynonet networks are a relatively new development in alliance warfare, primarily due to the recent commonness of dreads and carriers. I have been informed that t20's characters were removed from play before long before cynonetworks became common place and he was not aware of alleged account sharing."
This is obviously a bold faced and outright lie. t20 is not aware of Bob account sharing? It's a REQUIREMENT to even be in Bob. (not the cynonet stuff but the account sharing)
Back to square one.
I've been in bob twice so unless there is a you have to be in bob for X ammout of time before they ask you for your details from my view and personal experiance the requirement for account sharing is bull****. I was never asked for my details, nor were my old corp mates who have been in bob(evol) for over a year. ------------------------------------------- Contact t20 for your alliance BPO needs. Now doing 6 month intrest free contracts!!
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:59:00 -
[1761]
Out of curiosity, if any mention of this thread is being kept from the general discussion section, how are people (read the vast majority of even the small subsection of the EVE community who read the forums actively but do not know this forum exists)supposed to find out about this or voice their concerns?
Why hasn't there been an ingame news posting about this? If you aren't covering this up how can you explain this?
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Bluefix
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Posted - 2007.02.10 22:59:00 -
[1762]
Edited by: Bluefix on 10/02/2007 22:56:13
Originally by: Lucre Edited by: Lucre on 10/02/2007 22:46:04
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: kieron
Originally by: Various PlayersWhy were <players> from <corporation/alliance> not banned for account sharing due to being part of a cynonet network if t20 was managing the network of an alliance?
This is a question I had to do some research to get. Until reading the community response thread, I had not heard of a cynonet network and had to ask around to get some answers. As for the question itself...
It is my understanding that cynonet networks are a relatively new development in alliance warfare, primarily due to the recent commonness of dreads and carriers. I have been informed that t20's characters were removed from play before long before cynonetworks became common place and he was not aware of alleged account sharing.
If you had any credibility left, there it went. /me waves goodbye to it.
The *head* of the *capital fleet* of a *large* corporation was unaware of the existence of cynonets within his corporation and the account sharing that can accompany them? Are you alleging that he must simply not have been reading the forums of the corporation of which he was a director or am I miscontruing the only possible interpretation of what you just said? Was t20 playing with a blindfold on and earplugs in?
That is an outright, bald-faced, 100% lie. You would have been better of chanelling GM reimbursement petition replies and saying "our logs show no evidence of anything, sorry."
If you want to gain back trust start telling the truth, start being transparent. Offering up one dev for slaughter will not defuse this situation. You cannot regain what you once had by deflecting community concerns and offering up vacuous excuses and meaningless apologies.
QFT.
I'm sure that Trust for one will be fascinated to know how BoB moved all those dreadnoughts without a cyno network...
This just hurts now, as with every spadefull you're just digging the hole deeper and deeper. And meanwhile I hear people trying to alert other players to a wardec exploit which could cost them billions are having their posts deleted because "you can't discuss these things". For goodness sake, CCP, how can you be this blind to how this "keep them in the dark" attitude has to stop now if you're to retain any credibility?
The threads were closed because they discussed GM conversations. There's a thread about it here which isn't closed: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=473895
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Dracolich
North Star Networks Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.02.10 23:01:00 -
[1763]
Seems like the said Dev got punished on par with a normal player, while being a dev makes his offence so much worse.
I do have one question though, why did t20 jeopadize this colleagues and BoBs reputation, for some pretty ****ty bpos(Bob already have an extensive library)?
I very much doubt anyone would cross that line for something this small. This runs deeper...
Nonetheless, he should be fired either way - anyone else would.
Originally by: Hellmar
The developers of this company will always play the games that they build here. Without being fully immersed in the player experience, perspective, and community, it is impossible to build, maintain, and expand online worlds with any degree of competency
I am sorry to say, that they shouldn't be allowed to do so. If they wanna play and test the game, they can do so on test server or become a normal player(=termination of being a dev). If they want to know how their adjustments affect the games for the players, they should ask them. Playing the game along with major alliances, is not only a big riskfactor, its totally unnecessary in the developement of the game.
I wonder how the world outside Eve-community will respond to this; maybe more online games suffers from injustice - however none that I know of, will dev cheating have an impact on par with Eve - not even close.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.02.10 23:01:00 -
[1764]
Originally by: Blackie Moldar
...as Far as BoB everyone in game nows them as the powerhouse winning tornys...
Yes about that, we had one member of the team blowing his whole fusebox at things that seemed off and odd in our game against BoB and now I hear a rumour that LeMonde is in TAOSP. I'm starting to believe that in fact the ECM Burst were never fired and something other than straight activation of modules went on.
So tell me CCP what can you offer us in reimbursement when t20s betrayal bleeds our outfit dry of very valuable personel?
Also Known As |
spurious signal
Caldari Brainiacs
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Posted - 2007.02.10 23:04:00 -
[1765]
Originally by: Tarkan Kador
Originally by: Mollyanna FWIW, I'm a nobody, a rookie, and i'm already gone, for reasons have nothing to do with this.. (And all remaining assets will go towards financing the well deserved thrashing of BoD, now..) But a parting shot is more than deserved.
Why does this surprise anyone ?
This company was created by folk who were basically UO griefers, continues to support the whole play-dirty-to-win methodology, up to and including pretty severe metagaming by large alliances, where apparently most of the devs are - most of the new content in fact revolves around that world.
And this kind of thing wasn't going to happen, and often ? Get real.
While termination in t20's case is certainly more than justified, I think we should deliver unto him a worse punishment.
Break him to nooblet and make him start over... and WATCH him to make sure he doesn't cheat.
Because a Dev really needs to have the experiences of...
Having your cans endlessly flipped and being unable to do anything about it.
Being repeatedly suicide ganked for fun in highsec.
Being repeatedly wardecced for kicks by folks looking for easy kills.
Suffering the low profit margins and utter defenselessness of the Miner/Industrial careers at the low end of the SP food chain.
Being unable to make any profit whatsoever on transshipping trade goods.
Spending days on end trying to find somewhere, anywhere that isn't gatecamped to cross low-sec or enter 0.0, complete with repeated instapoddings while lagged from the jump.
Being laughed off by every corporation able to survive a wardec for not having years worth of SP.
Grinding for ages with an agent only to lose it in an eyeblink due to mission griefing.
Being wardecced back into the NPC corp and left to only your own resources and abilities in order to advance.
And then having to listen to the folks who wardecced you there screaming to have missions and NPC corps nerfed to cripple you even worse, or force you into their guns in "safe" highsec.
And absolutely, most especially, let him get a full hefty bite of the crap sandwich and uphill slope this game feeds to new players, especially non-pirates - and then a cold hard look at those mighty alliances lording it over him when he has zero chance of ever competing with, or even joining them.
And then let him reflect on how much of that is his own fault.
A better punishment you could not ask for, and who knows, the Devs might even see how broken their game is when you are NOT in a massive 0.0 alliance blobfest.
-Molly
/bow.
Take a good look at that post, Hellmar, and you'll begin to realize how little your development staff truly shares our "frustrations, joys, successes and failures."
Do you all even know the EVE you are developing anymore?
My god, QFT.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.10 23:05:00 -
[1766]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Blackie Moldar
...as Far as BoB everyone in game nows them as the powerhouse winning tornys...
Yes about that, we had one member of the team blowing his whole fusebox at things that seemed off and odd in our game against BoB and now I hear a rumour that LeMonde is in TAOSP. I'm starting to believe that in fact the ECM Burst were never fired and something other than straight activation of modules went on.
So tell me CCP what can you offer us in reimbursement when t20s betrayal bleeds our outfit dry of very valuable personel?
BoB doesn't seem to learn yet. And I have heard the same rumour, that LeMonde is in TAOSP and a name is attached to it as well, so I suspect he wont be for long.
-------------- In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft. |
Sephiraa
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Posted - 2007.02.10 23:09:00 -
[1767]
Originally by: Lori Carlyle
Originally by: Sigmorhair I was starting to feel a bit better about things, and had some small hope we were finally seeing an honest attempt to do the right thing from CCP.
Then I saw this from Keiron:
"It is my understanding that cynonet networks are a relatively new development in alliance warfare, primarily due to the recent commonness of dreads and carriers. I have been informed that t20's characters were removed from play before long before cynonetworks became common place and he was not aware of alleged account sharing."
This is obviously a bold faced and outright lie. t20 is not aware of Bob account sharing? It's a REQUIREMENT to even be in Bob. (not the cynonet stuff but the account sharing)
Back to square one.
I've been in bob twice so unless there is a you have to be in bob for X ammout of time before they ask you for your details from my view and personal experiance the requirement for account sharing is bull****. I was never asked for my details, nor were my old corp mates who have been in bob(evol) for over a year.
Were you in the Communist portion of EVOL or RKK? If not, than the account sharing requirement did not apply to you. Some of BoB is Capitalist, and doesn't require account info.
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Del369
Caldari Office linebackers Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.10 23:09:00 -
[1768]
Quote: We apologize for not resolving this when originally discovered, yes it is our fault. However, short of rolling back Tranquility to the time the first illegal BP was used for production, there is no way for us to estimate, let alone reverse the impact the BPs have had in the time that has passed.
Sorry Kieron i think your gonna have to bite the bullet so to speak on this one and find a way.
Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
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Slash Harnet
Minmatar Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2007.02.10 23:10:00 -
[1769]
Originally by: DarkMatter I feel bad for the guys who lost their characters, that's insane... If I had my characters deleted after 4 years against my will, I'd want to kill someone... Too many of you are playing up the wounded victim scenario here; you need to get over yourselves...
/Signed.
If they aren't going to fire this dev (not saying they should) then they need to un-ban this whistle blower.
signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior! |
D'an Y'eal
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.10 23:11:00 -
[1770]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: R'adeh Edited by: R''adeh on 10/02/2007 15:28:47
Originally by: Reiisha I'd just like to say thanks to all the people who now call about 1000 people liars, cheaters, untrustworthy and scum for no reason other than them not knowing what was going on.
I'll be sure to mimick this behaviour and call every single American i meet a corrupted, money laundering politician who should be shot, i shall call every German a **** sausage lover, i shall call every Scot a worthless alcoholic, i shall call everu muslim a suicidal and stupid fundamentalist.
Seriously. Read my ******* post and say this isn't seriously ****** up.
People realize not all of BoB are corrupt Devs. The reason why people are so mad, is that whenever they accused BoB of targeting stuff in POS and other exploits, we were ridiculed by BoB's "OMGHAX, tinfoil hat, STFU or proof, you suck, tinfoil hat!!!1!1!" crew.
Well, turns out we were right I know BoB has a lot of decent fair PVP'ers, no doubt about that. But corrupt devs in your ranks, leaders ridiculing other people for accusing you of stuff that has now been proven as correct (Riddari!!!), and that god damn "tinfoil hat STFU proof" squad has tarnished your AND CCP's name.
I'm sorry for the average BoB member who wants nothing but PVP and had nothing to do with all that bull****, you are the ones suffering from CCP's leniency and the some of your members incredible arrogance and corruption.
There was a single dev of which people didn't know he was a dev, and he used those BPO's to make ammo which people shot with their guns instead of selling it, to which i might add, bpo's the alliance has multiples of due to the number of ammo bpo's released.
How are we tarnishing CCP's name?
I'll just reverse the logic of so many bobfanbois have used and see how it sits with you: If you don't like the tarnish you've received being a member of bob why not just leave the alliance? ----------------- #begin Sig: Everything I say is the official word of me, my corp and my alliance. Anyone who says otherwise is full of themselves. :D
Hillary Clinton on Exxon: "I want to take |
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