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Sigrand Bjold
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Posted - 2007.01.18 07:39:00 -
[1]
Greetings all, been playing for little over a year now and finally deciding to step foot into PvP.
Now before I spent 100+ days training for the Eagle / Hybrid Rail setup I've been coming up with I'd like for some advice / comments / and concerns about HACs and Solo / Small Gang viability as the topic indicates.
I'll be looking to solo or small gang, nothing really piraty. But here's the setup I plan to use. I've got a decent deal of money to back this and could afford to lose a ship or two, mostly going for the experince and fun.
Hi: 4x 250mm Rail II 2x Small Nos ( mostly to help against ships that come close, couldn't really decide anything else I wanted to put here )
Mid: 1x Sensor Booster II 1x Tracking Computer II 1x Photon Scattering Field II 1x Large Shield Booster II 1x Shield Boost Amplifier II
Low: 1x Tracking Enhancer II 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1x Power Diagnostic System II
My main concern is with all the changes that have been doing via expansions and updates, ect is the HAC specically a Rail Eagle at all viable? I'm not looking for any umm how do they say 'omgwtfpwn'age Just good interesting fun.
Thank you all for your replys in advance. Eve's been a great game, although not a pleasent lover, she likes it rough still fun to be with.
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syko GSXR
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Posted - 2007.01.18 08:38:00 -
[2]
i don't fly a eagle but i can fly a cerberus. don't use a eagle just due to lack of gun skills but anyway. i also just got into pvp and while the cerberus has great range if you can't keep the target there till its dead there no use to having the range in solo pvp. as for your eagle setup in a gang it would work alright solo not really since you are not gonna be able to keep anything from warping away and if you did fit a scrambler its range is onlt 20km so might as well go with blasters to get the extra damage. that just my 2 cents
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Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.18 09:14:00 -
[3]
for me the eagle is an absolute fleet hac, for anti support role. But if u want to use it for smaller gangs, (less then 5) i would probally stick to a max range, max damage setup.
With 250II 2x sensor booster, 1 Tracking Comp, EM hardner, and a large shield extender 3x magstab, 1 Tracking enhancher If u can affort the pg and cpu but some of the assault missle launchers in.
With the eagle its highly needed to stay as far away as possible, and therefore u need range mods. I would stick to close to the battle, but with that setup u can easily deal with frigates and t1 cruisers. But as soon as someone gets close to you, which menas for the eagle 30km or less, u probally have to warp out, cause once u have someone orbiting u ur toast.
The problem with ur setup Small nos have a max range of 6km, ur absolut defenless against small fast 20km orbiting ships shield booster, the eagle has not much of cap, boosting only will stop ur guns from shootin, so i would stick to somethign passiv thats grants u a better change of survining.
As said above, its pure long range so it has the problem that someone can warp on ur head and ur plain dead, so therefore a common tactic would be to wait till a target appears then warp in to a spot 150km+ and kill it with long range ammo - probally pretty boring.
Some ppl talk about beagle, but as personaly I find that pretty doubtful i skip that :O)
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Djerin
Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:23:00 -
[4]
If you want to go solo you should not use rails. Get blasters instead. Range bonus applies to them too. Fit a 20k scram instead of the sensorbooster. You might need additional cap so drop the tracking computer and fit a cap booster. Personally i'd always use a damage control, so loose the tracking enhancer in favour of a damage control. This should do quite well. Obviously you cannot fight like anything with that. But sure as hell it's fun flying.
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j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:43:00 -
[5]
"I'll be looking to solo or small gang, nothing really piraty."
For the small gang kind of work Eagle optimal bonus combined with all the tracking gear may be actually counter-productive with 250 mm rails... since you're likely to operate at distances where targets operate under the optimal of your guns.
You might want to consider 200mm rails instead -- shorter optimal, more tracking and smaller fitting requirements which should allow you to fit 3rd damage mod there to make up for that ~5% base damage difference. Blasters can also be alternative, but Eagle is quite heavy so unless you're operating solo it might be more hassle than it's worth o.O
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Davros Johnstone
The Sanctum
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Posted - 2007.01.18 11:42:00 -
[6]
Blaster fitted Eagles look fun. As a plus, they are nice n cheap for HACs.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues Phoenix Supremacy
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Posted - 2007.01.18 12:50:00 -
[7]
Ooook...Firstly : Weapons
The eagle for a big gang is best used with rails. Sniping long range. However it should have NO tanking modules whatsoever. 4 250mm II, 3 sensor boosters, 2 tracking comps, 3 mag stab II, and 1 tracking unit. With spike you get a 200km range.
But - For solo, railguns are pointless. The eagle is a slow ship even on a good day. for that reason, rails are pointless. 250mmII for example...If the enemy gets within 15km, chances are you wont hit him (unless hes a BS/BC) in which case you're dead anyhow. For solo, always use blasters. You can get a good tank, an 'ok' speed, and good dps. Plus the range bonuses kick ass for blasters (20km with blasters ^^)
In short - blasters =solo....rails = gang. Dont try to combine them both. tanking + sniping never works
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Sigrand Bjold
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Posted - 2007.01.18 16:36:00 -
[8]
Ok thank you all for the very constructive posts, still trying to decide if I want to spend the 100+ days training for HAC or not. Currently I'm flying a Drake with a rather nasty setup passive tank and all.
ALl this hearing about the eagle being slow and such, completely useless at close range unless blaster fitted is kind of turning me away, wish it had a drone bay :)
Would the ferox be a better fit then the HAC? I have my old ferox just collecting dust in a hanger. Could fit it with blasters or rails and a nice tank, never saw a ferox in combat other then pve how would it perform vs say the eagle?
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PanzerGrenadier
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.01.18 19:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Waxau Ooook...Firstly : Weapons
The eagle for a big gang is best used with rails. Sniping long range. However it should have NO tanking modules whatsoever. 4 250mm II, 3 sensor boosters, 2 tracking comps, 3 mag stab II, and 1 tracking unit. With spike you get a 200km range.
But - For solo, railguns are pointless. The eagle is a slow ship even on a good day. for that reason, rails are pointless. 250mmII for example...If the enemy gets within 15km, chances are you wont hit him (unless hes a BS/BC) in which case you're dead anyhow. For solo, always use blasters. You can get a good tank, an 'ok' speed, and good dps. Plus the range bonuses kick ass for blasters (20km with blasters ^^)
In short - blasters =solo....rails = gang. Dont try to combine them both. tanking + sniping never works
This guy is about on. I personally don't like to use Eagles for solo PVP. They're good for sniping gate camps, but not much else.
That said, T2 250's are well worth training. With an Eagle, you'll get tons of pod and frig kills, but not much else.
My two cents.
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Mar vel
Caldari H.Y.D.R.A. GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:09:00 -
[10]
Beagle 4tw. Takes guts to get that close in a shield tanker, b/c nos=death, but you won't be disappointed otherwise.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues Phoenix Supremacy
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Posted - 2007.01.19 01:21:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Waxau on 19/01/2007 01:18:09 Sigrand. My personal opinion here (and its nothing more) would be to go eagle. If you fly a ferox already, then the chances are you use railguns already. If thats the case, then out of the hacs, the Eagle is your strength. Ive grown up in eve with both ships(cerb and eagle)....from when they both cost 80 mil, and i fitted them full-t1, to nowadays, when everything is t2.
If you are competent with rails, go eagle. Its the ultimate flagship for them. However if you decide to go for them...dont expect to be uber. Dont expect to do amazing dps. Dont expect to be primary. But do expect to have a viable pvp ship for both gang (sniper) and solo (blaster). Not many ships have the variation as an Eagle. In fact, the eagle is the most versatile hac out there, despite what others may think/say. The only thing you cant do is make origami out of it.
The ferox however...hm...it would be better in some regards, but not many.
The ferox has more guns. It has more hp. It is cheaper.
BUT - It has worse bonuses, takes longer to specialise in (Bc lv 5...trust me..it hurts ^^). Ontop of that, the eagle has a far greater range, and the tank isnt much worse imho.
So heres what i suggest. Train up for specialisation in Medium railguns. Its the ultimate for caldari rail ships. 250mmII and you'll have a 200km range easy. Insta-pop pods....pop frigs in a few volleys. Damn nice to have:)
So yeah - Spec in cruiser and med weapons. then along the way, train up for hacs. They're nice to have in your repertoire.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues Phoenix Supremacy
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Posted - 2007.01.19 01:27:00 -
[12]
Oh and as a side note...You could compare the Eagle to a poor mans hac. BUT : Theres a common misconception there.
Many view the eagle as crap. Slow, low dps, poor role, and can have its role replaced by most other ships. But thats not that case.
A comparison someone used a while back to explain to me what an eagle was like in blaster-setup's was the following:
The deimos, is a package deal. What you see, is what you get. A blasterboat, with good damage. Just hop in and POW. But the eagle...is a precision tool. You may start the race in damage slower than a deimos, you may be out tanked in the begining by the deimos...but if you specialise....you can surpass the deimos.
And just for general reference. . A beagle can beat a deimos. Simple reason being that the eagle allows for more dynamic setups, and skills affect the eagle more drastically. Deimos is rather 'off-the-shelf' whilst an Eagle is more of a 'Del''
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Sigrand Bjold
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Posted - 2007.01.19 03:30:00 -
[13]
I must say Waxau I think you've swayed me to spend the time and train for the eagle. I've never been the type of person to do the 'wtfomgpwn'age, I've always been the type in all MMO's I've played to find the wierdest specs ( fittings ) and beat people with them and listen to the ask how the hell did he do that.
I think the Eagle would be a great adventure to look into, if nothing else I blow up a few and it turns into a great learning experince, either way its a great learning experince.
Thank you all for your time and non-flaming posts telling me to fly something else because the eagle "suxxorz"(sp?)
I'm still dissappointed in the lack of a drone bay :( would make the eagle shine just a tad more in my eyes.
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Selenna Corvinnus
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2007.01.19 03:48:00 -
[14]
If you're not sure about the eagle, get your gunnery skills and engineering skills up a bit, and take the Moa for a spin. It may not be as strong as the eagle, but it's damn close and will give you an idea of what to expect out of the Eagle...
Note you can go close range with Moas and Eagles, it's just a bit harder.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues Phoenix Supremacy
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:15:00 -
[15]
Well sigrand - I think its wise going for an eagle EVEN if you dont like it eventually. The skills you need are the type which help in ALL situations near enough. You're caldari, so you'll be using rails again - All the better to spec in em early. You're most likely going to fly cruisers at some point - So training it to lv 5 is a nice little notch. The adv weapon upgrades, etc. It all is extremely useful for general ship combat/flying. So even if you decide you dont like the eagle - HEY! You're still spec'd for a moa, caracal (near enough), ferox, anything which requires Med + Small rails/blasters, and ontop of that, every other ship cos of the bonuses weapon upgrades, and spaceship command give you etc.
Well worth it imo. Your motivation is to fly the ship - And as you say its a good learning experience. But thats not all you walk away with ^^
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Djerin
Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:41:00 -
[16]
Ya, and if you like this combatstyle you'll love the Rokh too which is only a tiny step away. Just like the Eagle it can fit blasters and rails and look good either way. You'll love it and you'll thank god you took the time to train up for it.
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PanzerGrenadier
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.01.19 18:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sigrand Bjold I must say Waxau I think you've swayed me to spend the time and train for the eagle. I've never been the type of person to do the 'wtfomgpwn'age, I've always been the type in all MMO's I've played to find the wierdest specs ( fittings ) and beat people with them and listen to the ask how the hell did he do that.
I think the Eagle would be a great adventure to look into, if nothing else I blow up a few and it turns into a great learning experince, either way its a great learning experince.
Thank you all for your time and non-flaming posts telling me to fly something else because the eagle "suxxorz"(sp?)
I'm still dissappointed in the lack of a drone bay :( would make the eagle shine just a tad more in my eyes.
I've never used a beagle, but I have flown sniper Eagles extensively at gatecamps. For a GC, they can't be beat. In no way does the Eagle "suxxorz". I view it as more a situational ship.
But even if you don't like the HAC, T2 Rails and Blasters are great tools to have for many setups.
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