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Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2011.12.13 19:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
So my question is this, why would someone fly one over the other.
Tornado has OMGWTFBBQ alpha, small base sig radius, and is decently fast.
Oracle does what the tornado does, but with less alpha and higher DPS. I think.
I'm not all that keen on why one over the other. I've got some skilling up to do before fitting T2 large guns, so I'd like to know the strengths and weaknesses of both. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
313
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Posted - 2011.12.13 20:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tornado, because of Winmatar |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
467
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Posted - 2011.12.13 20:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Tornado, because of Winmatar
Yes'n no
Oracles are bloody fine, it's just that I cant use those |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.12.13 20:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oracle, looks fracking awesum. |
Alara IonStorm
618
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Posted - 2011.12.13 21:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Oracle, looks fracking awesum. First time I saw one used was when I was a member of the Blue Republic. A Red Fed Kessie landed on Autaris HQ and before he could dock he was Alpha'd by a Tach Oracle. Same Pilot got a Thrasher in two shots the same way. Then a Noob Ship warped right next to him and he bolted like a bat out of hell. He could not hit it with his beams and figured it was a warp in for a Red Fed Fleet that would instapop him before we could counter warp to him.
I got my first Red Fed Nado kill that day on a large Battlecruiser heavy station fight we lost a couple too a Naga and Oracle. Two Red Nado's were instapoping frigs off the Vellaine Gate. I saw about 8-12 of them that day.
I figured I would not see them in RvB because of all the T1 Frig / Ceptor Tackle but they are going strong in Frig Alpha Set-ups and Battlecruiser Gang DPS Ships.
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Alara IonStorm
618
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Posted - 2011.12.13 21:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
I hate these forums so much...
Oh well bright side is you get double the Alara at no extra cost. =/ |
Griznatch
Xicron Syndicate
30
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Posted - 2011.12.14 00:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:I hate these forums so much...
Oh well bright side is you get double the Alara at no extra cost. =/
What a deal!
I think the nado and oracle are both fine vessels, but a 1400 artymado is just disgusting. I popped a mwding slicer @60km on the 3rd volley (first two barely touched it) with titanium sabot. That sealed the deal for me. |
Daniel L'Siata
Echelon Conflict Resolution. Dragoons.
38
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Posted - 2011.12.14 00:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
They're both scary as hell, you got it right on the Alpha/DPS differential as well by the way.
One other thing to keep in mind is that your standard Tachyoracle fit will also be marginally slower and considerably less tanked in a full DPS setup.
Also, has anyone else found the cap life on these things to be absurd? |
Aestivalis Saidrian
SplitPush Mercantiles
7
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Posted - 2011.12.14 00:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Oracle imo is ridiculous. I'd have to eft warrior but I believe you can mount 8 tachs, tackle and dual rep. Tch IIs with BC5 and Controlled bursts 5 nets you 1.2 cap cost guns. Also it can mount similar firepower to a marauder. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
2
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Posted - 2011.12.14 01:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:The Oracle imo is ridiculous. I'd have to eft warrior but I believe you can mount 8 tachs, tackle and dual rep. Tch IIs with BC5 and Controlled bursts 5 nets you 1.2 cap cost guns. Also it can mount similar firepower to a marauder.
Gawd. If you are using Tachs, why would you even need or want tackle? |
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Aestivalis Saidrian
SplitPush Mercantiles
7
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Posted - 2011.12.14 02:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Point counts as tackle in my book. You only get a 35km optimal or so an overloaded disrupter 4tw.
Albeit I'm not really pvp expeirienced and am totally EFT Warrioring. So there is that. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
55
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Posted - 2011.12.14 09:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:Point counts as tackle in my book. You only get a 35km optimal or so an overloaded disrupter 4tw.
Albeit I'm not really pvp expeirienced and am totally EFT Warrioring. So there is that.
Usually don't bother with tackle on the tier threes.
1) If you are in point range it takes some relatively fancy flying to hit anything 2) Their tank sucks, and its like a ceptor or vaga with the MWD off......free KM 3) You only buffer tank them for the logi to give you a chance to warp the hell off the field if you get primaried.
You would be amazed how fast 15-20 Oracles melts down a carrier though, its seriously WTF DPS. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
32
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Posted - 2012.01.19 01:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yup, in longer engagements where DPS matters over Alpha, the Oracle wins. I'll also call it a winner in shooting POCOs. No reload time wins the day!
I've seen a lot of Talos end up as top damage on small medium engagements as well because of their overwhelming DPS at close range. |
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
206
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Posted - 2012.01.19 01:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Oracle because it wins in range and tracking mainly
Oh and I ******* love the sound of mega pulse
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ |
Khrage
62
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Posted - 2012.01.19 05:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cyzlaki wrote:Oracle because it wins in range and tracking mainly
Oh and I ******* love the sound of mega pulse
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
yes!
i used to be in love with the old tachyons before the updated turret effects, unfortunately haven't had the chance to see the new ones, but i heard it's not as epic, since the old ones had epic muzzle flare, could actually all fire at once, etc. |
Palladias
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.01.19 05:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
I've been flying oracles in gangs more recently where I used to fly the harb. Definitely a very good ship. Also, plated bait oracle is funny as hell, although smarter frig pilots are too wise for it at this point. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
648
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Posted - 2012.01.19 18:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
I looked at this last night and I feel that the Tornado wins because its: - Faster - Better tracking - Num mids >= 4
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
58
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tornado: better alpha (passive targeter + 1400s + speedy ship = win?), quite workable with meta4 guns. Oracle: better DPS, but you need T2 lasers (esp. in pulse fits) to get full performance out of it. |
Jude Lloyd
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
313
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I looked at this last night and I feel that the Tornado wins because its: - Faster - Better tracking - Num mids >= 4
-Liang
Yes, but the Oracle is far sexier. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
32
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
well by the time this post got rezzed, I trained T2 large pulse lasers to 4.
My setup that's currently working is 535 DPS and 2714 Alpha at 58 km with tracking of .037.
My buddy runs an alpha Nado that does 649 DPS and 10761 Alpha at 15+53 KM and a tracking of .023
For me, I always wanna do my best deeps, and I think the Oracle does that better at a farther range. However, if you absolutely positively have to get that falcon or blackbird down with 1 shot, then look no further than the Nado.
Alphawtfpwning a Falcon |
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Aamrr
238
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Posted - 2012.01.19 20:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I looked at this last night and I feel that the Tornado wins because its: - Faster - Better tracking - Num mids >= 4
-Liang
I thought tracking didn't matter on tier-3's? |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
652
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Posted - 2012.01.19 23:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I looked at this last night and I feel that the Tornado wins because its: - Faster - Better tracking - Num mids >= 4
-Liang I thought tracking didn't matter on tier-3's?
You got me ****** up for someone else bro. I was the one that was patiently explaining how the tracking deficiency (which truthfully has more to do with sig resolution than raw tracking) can be mitigated - not how it doesn't matter in the first place. Honestly I don't know how you can watch my videos and conclude that tracking doesn't matter.
But yes, there are ways to mitigate the problem - and after a certain point extra tracking isn't as useful as extra range or extra DPS. But we aren't talking about that here.
Any other "cute" questions to ask or are you done being a ******* moron?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
92
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Posted - 2012.01.20 00:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Aamrr wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I looked at this last night and I feel that the Tornado wins because its: - Faster - Better tracking - Num mids >= 4
-Liang I thought tracking didn't matter on tier-3's? You got me ****** up for someone else bro. I was the one that was patiently explaining how the tracking deficiency (which truthfully has more to do with sig resolution than raw tracking) can be mitigated - not how it doesn't matter in the first place. Honestly I don't know how you can watch my videos and conclude that tracking doesn't matter. But yes, there are ways to mitigate the problem - and after a certain point extra tracking isn't as useful as extra range or extra DPS. But we aren't talking about that here. Any other "cute" questions to ask or are you done being a ******* moron? -Liang
Have to say your statements are boss and badass. I laughed really hard.
Oracle is better with Pulses compared to auto-cannons period... Alpha goes to the Tornado, but the Oracle comes close. The Oracle is very well rounded and I would give it to the Oracle. I've also said the Talos was better than the Naga not to long after it hit Tranq and I flew them both. So, take what I have to say with a grain of salt. Many believe the Naga is better than a Talos
- proxyyyy |
Aamrr
238
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Posted - 2012.01.20 00:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Aamrr wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I looked at this last night and I feel that the Tornado wins because its: - Faster - Better tracking - Num mids >= 4
-Liang I thought tracking didn't matter on tier-3's? You got me ****** up for someone else bro. I was the one that was patiently explaining how the tracking deficiency (which truthfully has more to do with sig resolution than raw tracking) can be mitigated - not how it doesn't matter in the first place. Honestly I don't know how you can watch my videos and conclude that tracking doesn't matter. But yes, there are ways to mitigate the problem - and after a certain point extra tracking isn't as useful as extra range or extra DPS. But we aren't talking about that here. Any other "cute" questions to ask or are you done being a ******* moron? -Liang
It was a joke. Considering all the rage that went on in that thread, I figured we could use some levity. Lighten up and find some common decency for once. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
654
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Posted - 2012.01.20 00:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
m0cking bird wrote:
Have to your statements are boss and badass. I laughed really hard.
Oracle is better with Pulses compared to auto-cannons period... Alpha goes to the Tornado, but the Oracle comes close. The Oracle is very well rounded and I would give it to the Oracle. I've also said the Talos was better than the Naga not to long after it hit Tranq and I flew them both. So, take what I have to say with a grain of salt. Many believe the Naga is better than a Talos
- proxyyyy
Thanks :D
As to the Tornado vs Oracle: I just don't see a way to make my Tier 3 play style work on a ship without 4 mids. I tried really hard and it just didn't seem to pan out in EFT. I should probably just sack up and try it out on TQ though.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
92
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Posted - 2012.01.20 00:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Oracle Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Warp Disruptor II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Oracle Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Fourier Transform Tracking Program Fourier Transform Tracking Program Power Diagnostic System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Invulnerability Field II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
-proxyyyy |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.01.20 01:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Garr Earthbender wrote:well by the time this post got rezzed, I trained T2 large pulse lasers to 4. My setup that's currently working is 535 DPS and 2714 Alpha at 58 km with tracking of .037. My buddy runs an alpha Nado that does 649 DPS and 10761 Alpha at 15+53 KM and a tracking of .023 For me, I always wanna do my best deeps, and I think the Oracle does that better at a farther range. However, if you absolutely positively have to get that falcon or blackbird down with 1 shot, then look no further than the Nado. Alphawtfpwning a Falcon
You put large pulses on an Oracle make me want to . When you properly trained and have mega pulses you will be doing over 900DPS, and I still have some training to do. Maybe the large T2 was a typo and you didn't fit Heat sinks.. which is maybe not as bad.. but still makes me want to
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Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
32
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Posted - 2012.01.20 04:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
drdxie wrote:Garr Earthbender wrote:well by the time this post got rezzed, I trained T2 large pulse lasers to 4. My setup that's currently working is 535 DPS and 2714 Alpha at 58 km with tracking of .037. My buddy runs an alpha Nado that does 649 DPS and 10761 Alpha at 15+53 KM and a tracking of .023 For me, I always wanna do my best deeps, and I think the Oracle does that better at a farther range. However, if you absolutely positively have to get that falcon or blackbird down with 1 shot, then look no further than the Nado. Alphawtfpwning a Falcon You put large pulses on an Oracle make me want to . When you properly trained and have mega pulses you will be doing over 900DPS, and I still have some training to do. Maybe the large T2 was a typo and you didn't fit Heat sinks.. which is maybe not as bad.. but still makes me want to
Might be because I'm on a tracking kick. Knowing that I face battlecruisers and smaller for the most part, and knowing that I'll be moving more often than not, I want more tracking. Even WITH 3 heat sink, Scorch will only do 719 DPS for me (not all lvl 5 *GASP*). This BC isn't made for close combat, so I'm gonna make sure I can hit from around 60 KM. So I put tracking enhancers in the lows with 1 heat sink.
And yes, I can get 900 DPS with 3 heat sinks and IN Multifreq. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
321
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Posted - 2012.01.20 20:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:Tornado: better alpha (passive targeter + 1400s + speedy ship = win?), quite workable with meta4 guns. Oracle: better DPS, but you need T2 lasers (esp. in pulse fits) to get full performance out of it. This.
Liang Nuren wrote: I looked at this last night and I feel that the Tornado wins because its: - Faster - Better tracking - Num mids >= 4
Also this.
It is worth noting that the Oracle is the tankiest tier 3 BC. It also has horrible, horrible, tracking but at least it's tanky.
Also, when thinking about DPS, keep in mind that in short fights, alpha affects "effective DPS" quite a lot. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
32
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Posted - 2012.01.20 21:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Yup. I read that Alpha thread. It makes total sense. I'm probably defending the Oracle a bit much since I fly Amarr mainly. That and the fact it's the most effective nano BC that they have now. It out damages, out ranges, and out speeds the Harbinger, with the drawbacks being tracking, EHP, and no drones.
I fly with a nano drake gang, so there's plenty of points and webs to go around. Also, I tend to go pie here and there, so the extra EHP is worth it. Either way, here's my fit:
[Oracle, Effective Nano Oracle] Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Or you could replace the invuln field for a point. Don't go pie on a gate though!!! |
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