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Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 19:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's not a secret, the Genolution implants will go up in price. I am buying them, but need additional funds to buy more. This is my business plan.
Loan Amount: 1 Billion Isk Repayment: 3 Months Interest Repayment: At the conclusion (Otherwise I would need to hold money back since there is no liquid isk in my plan)
If you are willing to back me with no collateral, the interest rate will be 5% per month.
If you wish to have collateral, I can put up some of the current stock I have in Genolution Implants. Please state your terms and I will agree or not. Just FYI, I will not accept you saying you want 20 of them against a 1 Billion isk loan with a 4% interest rate, I'm not stupid.
I will post montly to let you know everything is alive and well.
This is my first request, I look forward to continued business in the future. |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
21
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Posted - 2011.12.13 19:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
So even if the price doesn't hike significantly, you'll pay us back the 5%? Funding speculation is, well, shaky. |
Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 19:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
If the price stays the same as current, I will pay back the 5%(Per Month) and the principal. I have about 2 Billion isk of my own in this effort, so the additional funds are not a problem.
It's a loan, what I use it for is my fault not yours. |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
21
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Posted - 2011.12.13 20:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Good answer, just checking. |
DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
84
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Posted - 2011.12.14 01:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
So, if you're right about the price increase, we trust a complete stranger with 1 billion to buy the implants to get 15.8% (off the top of my head) interest if you decide to repay. OR, we could buy them ourselves and take all the profit...Tricky one. Damn nature, you scary! |
Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 02:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Obviously you do not understand investing.
My time will be used in obtaining 1 billion worth of implants, it's not like you can just put a single buy order up for that quantity. For you, it's a simple transfer, with a cash payout in three months. For me, it's hours of work. |
Skarned
Inroads
10
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Posted - 2011.12.14 02:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
DelBoy Trades wrote:So, if you're right about the price increase, we trust a complete stranger with 1 billion to buy the implants to get 15.8% (off the top of my head) interest if you decide to repay. OR, we could buy them ourselves and take all the profit...Tricky one.
Effort. No thanks. |
Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 05:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Still no bites though. Do I need to increase the reward based on the risk? Anyone have any other suggestions? |
Kharthis Jian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
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Posted - 2011.12.14 07:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Private loans between trusted people are usually 10-20% a month minimum. Trusting some nobody with isk for 5%? laughable. |
DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
84
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sleekman wrote:Obviously you do not understand investing.
My time will be used in obtaining 1 billion worth of implants, it's not like you can just put a single buy order up for that quantity. For you, it's a simple transfer, with a cash payout in three months. For me, it's hours of work.
You're right, putting up buy orders and buying them off alliance buddies who want instant isk is hours of work. My guess, Skarned is an alt of yours (or not, but regardless) this is a scam.
Damn nature, you scary! |
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De Guillaume
NEMESIS HOLDING NEM3SIS.
7
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
3 month for 15%- which is 150m isk
even if not a scam, seems a waste of time. there is better ways to make 150m isk in 2 days, why wait 3 months |
Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 14:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm not in an alliance. O-well.
Nobody has even asked for collateral, which I mentioned I'm more than happy to put up. |
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
60
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Posted - 2011.12.14 15:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
At 100% collateral, I'll fund the whole thing.
Further, I'll offer you the option to swap the collateral back for my holding the implants for the 3-month duration.
Also, if you elect to exercise the above option I'll give you an escape clause, where if you decide to keep my investment capital (excluding interest) and leave me at the altar with the implants, you're free to do so with no damage to your reputation. This shifts the risk of the implants losing value from you to me.
This offer is valid for 24 hours. |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
21
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Posted - 2011.12.14 15:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Unfortunately, it just doesn't have much bite. Although the terms seem reasonable, it's a lot of isk to put up just to pay you to buy stuff for us. |
Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 16:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Esan, what valuation would I get for existing stock if I am using it as collateral? Are you willing to go with current market price? Also, are you willing to do this through a third party (they hold the stock)? |
Miss Margin
Miss Margin Corp
4
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Posted - 2011.12.14 17:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
What an interesting little situation.
If I loan you 500M isk and you give me the implants as collateral and the implants go up more than 5% what prevents me from just selling the implants and making the profit you would have been making? If the price drops, what prevents you from writing off the now depreciated collateral?
In the latter case you would effectively be making me take the risk for a tiny fraction of the profit.
As others have said, it's probably safer for someone to just invest in the implants themselves though that takes the effort of actually going on contracts and buying them.
As an aside, I've been watching them as well and the price has been rising steadily. This character is for Sale, pure trade skills.-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=517979#post517979
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Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 17:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
That's why I plan on having the Collateral with a third party. So you can't run off with it unless I don't pay.
What stops anyone who asks for a Loan from walking off with the money and letting you keep the collateral? That's the whole point of collateral. It gives you less risk because it will be worth at least some part of the Loan. Risk vs Reward is how the whole investing thing works, not just for eve, but for the ENTIRE WORLD.
Do you people even invest at all? It seems to me like you do not understand how this whole process works. |
Tom Hagen
Twilight Empire Blazing Angels Alliance
9
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Posted - 2011.12.14 20:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
How wonderful!
A nobody comes to MD and asking us to trust him with our ISK, a 5% offer at no collateral (have you even read the forum before posting), and he comes with an attitude. Most of these people who would be able to invest in this probably can afford to lose a billion in this endeavor, apparently something you cant. The same people probably have more to lose in running away with your small time ISK, after all it would be hard to be able to lend someone ISK and be trustworthy if you have a reputation of running away with the collateral if you can earn something on it.
No we don't invest much, since the loans\bonds that tends to pop up in here now a days has such poor reward versus risk. just look at this offer: [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=46077[/url]
It seems to be you don't understand how this whole process works.
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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
45
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Posted - 2011.12.14 20:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
On the contrary people understand how this works all too well.
If you do want a third party then I will offer my services with the following terms:
1) I will hold 25 Genolution implants (CA-1/2) against a loan of 1B. This represents a valuation of 40m per unit. 2) Items must be in a station that can be reached via contiguous high-sec from Jita. 3) I will receive a payment of 50M for this service. 4) A default will occur if an interest payment or the return of capital is missed by more than 3 days (72 hours) 5) Items held will be returned in the same station and condition upon public confirmation of receipt of capital and final interest from the investors. 6) In the event of a dispute I will require perform an API check on the Investee (Sleekman) to establish if such payments have been made. 7) In the event of a default I will sell the items and return the proceeds (up to the level of the capital invested). Any excess will be kept by myself as remuneration for selling and closing things down.
It will be up to you to agree the interest rate with your investors as I couldn't give a stuff.
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Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 22:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
In real life terms, a 5% montly interest rate is 60%APR. Just pointing out that technically that makes it a CRIMINAL act according to the Canadian Criminal Code - http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-160.html#h-98
Not enough reward my ass considering I'm offering to fully collateralize it with a trusted third party.
Tom, You may notice that nobody has counter offered me in any way shape or form with an acceptable amount. If you are interested in funding, say so, and state your terms. If you are not interested, stop clogging this thread.
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De Guillaume
NEMESIS HOLDING NEM3SIS.
7
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Posted - 2011.12.14 22:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
your dammed if you do and dammed if you don'y
you told people whats ur business is and they poke holes at it and make fun of it. if you then don't tell people what ur plans are they call u a scammer
basic point is. ur offering 150m isk for 3 months, thats a dam long time
so i think its within the right of the person loaning u the money to make some demands that could possible benefit them or benefit u if ur wrong and prices falls.
so i would take their offers.
and just because i am a bit stupid. i am going to spend 2b on what u planned on doing and will update u if i make a profit or a loss. |
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
60
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Posted - 2011.12.14 23:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sleekman wrote:Esan, what valuation would I get for existing stock if I am using it as collateral? Are you willing to go with current market price? Also, are you willing to do this through a third party (they hold the stock)?
Sleekman, I'm satisfied with 100% market value of whatever you decide to use as initial collateral. Anything from minerals to BPOs will do.
You may swap this collateral for your acquired stock of implants at any time during the life of this loan, the valuation of those implants to be determined at the time you exercise this option. Should you exercise this option, the original valuation of the initial collateral will be used, which is 1 Billion ISK.
I will select a 3rd party, which you will have the right to reject for good cause, and I will cover 100% of their fees.
The only risks are:
1) 3rd party absconds with the collateral. This is unlikely, but in such a case I will accept 100% of the loss and forfeit my investment. You will still owe me the interest, however.
2) The value of the implants drops. If that happens, and you exercised your option to exchange the initial collateral for the implants as collateral, then you may exercise your secondary option of having the 3rd party hand me the devalued implants rather than my initial investment at the end of the investment term. You will still owe me the interest, however.
These are the final terms.
***
To those of you attacking Sleekman, grow up, or move along. I'm losing respect for some of you. |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
23
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Posted - 2011.12.14 23:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
My intention was not to attack, I merely was trying to help by pointing out what I saw as flaws in the offering. If this wasn't directed at me, then disregard.
Sleekman: Esan's offer seems to be pretty solid, I would recommend taking him up on it, he gives you some pretty decent escape hatches.
Heck, I'm willing to act as third party if you don't want Lauren. It'd be a new thing for me, but I'd like to give it a try. Either way, good luck.
PS: I will give you my usual advice: don't get noticeably upset on the forums, it does no good and undermines confidence.
Edit: As far as the percentage return being usurious by RL standards, yes, it is. On the other hand, RL has safeguards built in to give you recourse in the event of a scam. There are no such avenues in EVE, as a result, higher risk, necessitating higher returns. |
Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.15 06:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Esan, I would like to take you up on your offer, name your third party. I will make it easier by just starting with market value implants as collateral instead of worrying about this exchange thing. |
Tom Hagen
Twilight Empire Blazing Angels Alliance
9
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Posted - 2011.12.15 06:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yes I was "attacking" Mr. Sleekman.
My point being, to use a real life example as he seems fond of.
If you go to the bank and asking for a loan, barging in there without no prior history and your middle finger raised asking the employees if they actually know how this work, telling them and trying to dictate the terms. At the same time being quite open about that your main concern is them stealing from you. It might not go as well as it turns out in here, just saying... Sometimes it pays of to be humble when begging for other peoples stuff.
@ ESAN
He said it was a 5% no collateral loan, thus implying he expect a lower interest if collateral is given.
If I have understood this correctly. For this now you have taken ALL the risk, going from the third party to the market dropping, is this correct?
Following your investment strategy, I have billions tied up in PI materials. Cant I just insure todays value of the PI with you at a 5% monthly fee, and if the market drops you pick up the loss? And you pay the third party also btw..
Well I do think this is one of the best deals that can be made in here, Congrats to Sleekman!
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Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
60
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Posted - 2011.12.15 16:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sleekman wrote:Esan, I would like to take you up on your offer, name your third party. I will make it easier by just starting with market value implants as collateral instead of worrying about this exchange thing.
If you have already acquired 1 billion ISK worth of these implants, then that's perfectly acceptable. I will contact a 3rd party today and have them contact you with the request for a specific number of implants, which you may accept or refuse. Should you refuse, please contact me.
@ TOM
The probability of PI materials dropping in value is significantly higher than with these implants. Thus, if you wanted to hedge your stocks of PI materials by using them as collateral for a loan with me, I would revise the monthly interest rate upward to compensate, and you would be free to accept of reject that revised offer. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that I haven't considered the risks involved. This is a transaction that shifts 100% of the "trust" factor away from Sleekman, making him just as reliable a customer as Chribba himself would be. You clearly have never worked in a bank if you think that serious clients walk into a loan manager's office bowing with hat in hand. You give the man his loan if the reward outweighs the risk, and you smile doing it.
So, was your inquiry about PI materials serious, or were you trying to make some sort of point? |
Shar Tegral
28
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Posted - 2011.12.15 21:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
I've been retained as 3rd party collateral holder in this matter. |
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
60
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Posted - 2011.12.15 22:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thank you Shar.
Sleekman, I'm willing to peg current value of the implants @ 40m per unit, despite the price having already climbed somewhat.
You're going to make a lot of money, and I'm happy to finance your efforts.
At your earliest convenience, please contract 25 implants as collateral to Shar Tegral from an accessible highsec station, and I will wire the funds to her in the next few hours. |
Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.12.17 03:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
I have a concern about using Shar, why does it only cost 1 million isk? Who does anything this valuable in eve for 1 million isk? For the time involved, you could make 5-10m isk just shooting rats. |
DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
86
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Posted - 2011.12.17 07:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sleekman wrote:I have a concern about using Shar, why does it only cost 1 million isk? Who does anything this valuable in eve for 1 million isk? For the time involved, you could make 5-10m isk just shooting rats.
Pay Chribba 300million then...........You can't win. Damn nature, you scary! |
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