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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
348
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 11:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I had this idea earlier....
current AFK mining involves warping to belt, picking 2 suitable rocks, and alt-tabbing out until you stop hearing that 'hmm'
If the ret/mack could be forced to mine a single asteroid at a time, they'd (generally) hear that hum stopping more quickly
my solution/idea is simple (but would possibly be a coding nightmare?)
remove a highslot from the ret & mack and give it to the proc & skiff (and then swap the role bonuses around, excluding the drone bonus)
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
401
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 12:24:04 -
[2] - Quote
Most asteroids in high-sec are already very small, so even in a Covetor or Hulk you will likely be depleting some of them before your ore hold fills. In low-sec and null-sec, AFK mining is unfeasible anyway (for obvious reasons). Not to mention, having one high-yield strip miner is annoying enough even when you aren't AFK. Half-cycling the strip miner, reactivating the survey scanner after that...
Plus, such a change would make the Skiff even more desirable, and it's already quite the ship.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Faxat
14
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Posted - 2015.11.13 12:25:02 -
[3] - Quote
Not the worst idea, currently the biggest "balance" to the retriever vs procurer is a catalyst.
One thing though - don't assume that miners all go afk while mining, while it certainly happens, it feels like ehat people rather do is to log on multiple accounts and mine 2- 7x the amount.
I would rather they combat this rampant alt/afk mining by implementing minigames to mining to increase yield efficiency. Use something like the "heat" map from PI and have people manually reposition their lasers effectively trippling/quad'ing the yield. The current system just enables eve"s forever present pay2win mentality.
Faxat out! o/
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1929
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 12:41:39 -
[4] - Quote
Faxat wrote:Not the worst idea, currently the biggest "balance" to the retriever vs procurer is a catalyst.
One thing though - don't assume that miners all go afk while mining, while it certainly happens, it feels like ehat people rather do is to log on multiple accounts and mine 2- 7x the amount.
I would rather they combat this rampant alt/afk mining by implementing minigames to mining to increase yield efficiency. Use something like the "heat" map from PI and have people manually reposition their lasers effectively trippling/quad'ing the yield. The current system just enables eve"s forever present pay2win mentality.
The current system just enables a hunter with a good bubble to kill 3-4 mining ships at once rather than only one.
If you do not like other people who choose to multibox, feel free to go kill them. Each account that is out in space and doing things is good for this game.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Faxat
14
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Posted - 2015.11.13 12:59:29 -
[5] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Faxat wrote:Not the worst idea, currently the biggest "balance" to the retriever vs procurer is a catalyst.
One thing though - don't assume that miners all go afk while mining, while it certainly happens, it feels like ehat people rather do is to log on multiple accounts and mine 2- 7x the amount.
I would rather they combat this rampant alt/afk mining by implementing minigames to mining to increase yield efficiency. Use something like the "heat" map from PI and have people manually reposition their lasers effectively trippling/quad'ing the yield. The current system just enables eve"s forever present pay2win mentality. The current system just enables a hunter with a good bubble to kill 3-4 mining ships at once rather than only one. If you do not like other people who choose to multibox, feel free to go kill them. Each account that is out in space and doing things is good for this game.
What? Are we suddenly in nullsec now? :-)
I don't like that the games economy or ressources have to be balanced by ccp taking into account multiboxers.
As for multiboxers themselves - I have no hate for those that play the game as well as they can. It is the design behind such a feature I have an issue with :-)
Faxat out! o/
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1929
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Posted - 2015.11.13 13:07:10 -
[6] - Quote
Faxat wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Faxat wrote:Not the worst idea, currently the biggest "balance" to the retriever vs procurer is a catalyst.
One thing though - don't assume that miners all go afk while mining, while it certainly happens, it feels like ehat people rather do is to log on multiple accounts and mine 2- 7x the amount.
I would rather they combat this rampant alt/afk mining by implementing minigames to mining to increase yield efficiency. Use something like the "heat" map from PI and have people manually reposition their lasers effectively trippling/quad'ing the yield. The current system just enables eve"s forever present pay2win mentality. The current system just enables a hunter with a good bubble to kill 3-4 mining ships at once rather than only one. If you do not like other people who choose to multibox, feel free to go kill them. Each account that is out in space and doing things is good for this game. What? Are we suddenly in nullsec now? :-) I don't like that the games economy or ressources have to be balanced by ccp taking into account multiboxers. As for multiboxers themselves - I have no hate for those that play the game as well as they can. It is the design behind such a feature I have an issue with :-)
Yes, we are suddenly in Null Sec now, because Eve pretty much uses the same mechanics everywhere (at least in this regard). So, you have to balance it out based on how it will be used/abused in all parts of space.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
635
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 14:57:10 -
[7] - Quote
Faxat wrote:Not the worst idea, currently the biggest "balance" to the retriever vs procurer is a catalyst.
One thing though - don't assume that miners all go afk while mining, while it certainly happens, it feels like ehat people rather do is to log on multiple accounts and mine 2- 7x the amount.
I would rather they combat this rampant alt/afk mining by implementing minigames to mining to increase yield efficiency. Use something like the "heat" map from PI and have people manually reposition their lasers effectively trippling/quad'ing the yield. The current system just enables eve"s forever present pay2win mentality. Mini-games will change nothing the afk miners will just use more alts to counter the lower yields, or just mine for a longer period of time to counter the lower yields.
Let's face facts here mining does not really require much in the way of movement, hell even drones mining or otherwise can be set to an automated mode so how do you know if a miner you are watching is truly AFK?
In the end I find myself in agreement with FT Diomedes. If you hate AFK miners then 1. Join CODE in their quest to counter all AFK play styles with extreme force. 2. Don't like CODE then start your own group.
To be sure you understand this
-1 to your idea of a mini-game.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
348
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 18:00:47 -
[8] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Faxat wrote:Not the worst idea, currently the biggest "balance" to the retriever vs procurer is a catalyst.
One thing though - don't assume that miners all go afk while mining, while it certainly happens, it feels like ehat people rather do is to log on multiple accounts and mine 2- 7x the amount.
I would rather they combat this rampant alt/afk mining by implementing minigames to mining to increase yield efficiency. Use something like the "heat" map from PI and have people manually reposition their lasers effectively trippling/quad'ing the yield. The current system just enables eve"s forever present pay2win mentality. Mini-games will change nothing the afk miners will just use more alts to counter the lower yields, or just mine for a longer period of time to counter the lower yields. Let's face facts here mining does not really require much in the way of movement, hell even drones mining or otherwise can be set to an automated mode so how do you know if a miner you are watching is truly AFK? In the end I find myself in agreement with FT Diomedes. If you hate AFK miners then 1. Join CODE in their quest to counter all AFK play styles with extreme force. 2. Don't like CODE then start your own group. To be sure you understand this -1 to your idea of a mini-game.
I never suggested a minigame - please read first post.....
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
348
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 18:03:14 -
[9] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:Most asteroids in high-sec are already very small, so even in a Covetor or Hulk you will likely be depleting some of them before your ore hold fills. In low-sec and null-sec, AFK mining is unfeasible anyway (for obvious reasons). Not to mention, having one high-yield strip miner is annoying enough even when you aren't AFK. Half-cycling the strip miner, reactivating the survey scanner after that...
Plus, such a change would make the Skiff even more desirable, and it's already quite the ship.
will annoyance not drive people to stop doing something? and yes, I'm aware that it will be slightly problematic for the AtK ret miner, but really - with a single strip - deactivating it/having the odd mining drone should sort out the issue of tiny fractions left.....
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 18:45:18 -
[10] - Quote
But AFKers of every stripe provide targets for the opportunist to mess with. Kill, bump, poach, these things are important, as well as a break in the monotonous and cost of doing unprotected activities in defenseless ships.
I agree there should be a bit of revitalization, but afkers are not the enemies everyone thinks they are.
Porch and banjo time: When i started minerals markets were in a rediculous slump, t1 ships were embarassingly cheap, and noobs could be in them with very little isk grinding. Hulkageddon happened to cull and remind the lazy to be a bit more vigilant, but there was always warning announcements. Then Gankers got some awesome and needed boosts, and prices went up. The only ones really losing out from our outdated mining system and noobies that get discouraged by the big afk fleets.
Maudlin over, I'd support a seperate series of ships with low entry requirements, but witrh ultra-low yields countered by a more intensive mining (i hate to use the term) minigame. Mining is already a minigame, scan select particular type of 'roid, get in range, proper crystals at the ready.
Adding a different series of ships with different mining style would be a breath of fresh air, more likely to get noobs into the trade and reward them for a more active playstyle. AFK players still get their passive income, and can deal with the consequences of inattention.
Part of the new "minigame" would be that 2 active multiboxed accounts could outmine 2 macks by a reasonably attractive margin, but would require a lot of character juggling, roid scanning and constant tweaking or ultra low yields result. instead of large cargo holds, they would have maintenece bays so in fleet haulers can pick up while the miners remain concentrated on their trade. cargo and cap would be small enough that staggering the mods would be more or less required, and a paper tank would help keep the pilots aware of their surroundings.
Hulks would still be king, that shouldn't change because they are great targets.
A culture that does not champion courage, heroes and ice cream does not deserve to survive.
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Lara Sunji
State War Academy Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2015.11.13 21:28:45 -
[11] - Quote
All gankbears assume all miners go afk when mining. It's hilariously wrong. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2695
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 21:47:15 -
[12] - Quote
No minigames. Minigames might be fun briefly, but mining is an activity that takes hours. Please play your minigame for three to four hours straight without a break and tell me how fun it is then playing 'click on the white spot' Also it then takes attention away from all the other areas of your screen.
And most Macks don't actually mine away from keyboard. |
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1578
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 21:53:10 -
[13] - Quote
.... Don't need my Netflix time....
Yaay!!!!
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
348
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 22:51:48 -
[14] - Quote
I AM NOT SUGGESTING MINIGAMES!
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
|
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1579
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 23:13:37 -
[15] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:I AM NOT SUGGESTING MINIGAMES!
I'll elaborate. If there was something I could do to increase my yield, such as a mini game I could activate and do anytime.. sure. But if I just want to afk and not worry about it, I should be permitted.
Closest thing I could figure is that when you target a rock, you have a unlock better mineral game. Now a good person could complete the minigame in 15.. to 30 seconds. If successful, that rock unlocks and everybody can mine it to get the better mineral composition in it.
Something like that I'm ok with.
But a Captcha image every minute will annoy me.
Yaay!!!!
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
84
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Posted - 2015.11.13 23:40:25 -
[16] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:So I had this idea earlier....
current AFK mining involves warping to belt, picking 2 suitable rocks, and alt-tabbing out until you stop hearing that 'hmm' "I am mad at people who get less than 7 mil per hour to obtain ore they still have to compress and haul out to sell later and neither is possible afk".
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:If the ret/mack could be forced to mine a single asteroid at a time, they'd (generally) hear that hum stopping more quickly
my solution/idea is simple (but would possibly be a coding nightmare?)
remove a highslot from the ret & mack and give it to the proc & skiff (and then swap the role bonuses around, excluding the drone bonus)
Some numbers for any who want them: let's say the average rock contains 20,000 m3, that's not enough to fill the ore hold of the average ret miner (25,000m3), never mind mack (not sure, say 30,000m3?). With 2 strips, they can mine 2 rocks to near depletion, get a full ore hold, drop ore off, come back and mine a different pair of rocks. With a single strip, they mine 1 rock, completely to depletion, and have to come back to their screen at least once before they drop the ore off.
If the rocks were smaller, this would be an even bigger issue.....
I would say that the cov/hulk are in a good place, but could probably do with a slight bonus to the cap use of strip miners, as they are the vessels that are generally short-cutting their strips for highest yield.
EDIT: Because people don't seem to get this - I'm not proposing minigames, and I don't WANT to see proposals of minigames in this thread please!
I mean, on the problem scale of 0 to 10, the afk mining will struggle to get 1. The whole issue that hisec mining is nerfed into oblivion is 5. I can confirm it made me unsub 5 accs when nerfs hit. If you're so mad to ask wasting CCP time on it, get on the catalyst and fix it yourself. Sandbox, remember?
P.S. Last time I mined in hisec (after Odyssey hisec mining was essentially dead and gone), biggest 0.7 rocks were 13000-16000 m3 and there was like 2 of them in each system. Average rock was ~10000m3, and you can't fill a retriever with 2 of those. Rocks were a bit bigger in 0.5 systems, but afk mining there is a ganktard attraction, so nobody did that. So tell me again, where is the problem? Some impoverished newbies sometimes afk when their barge is on the belt and it makes you mad is the problem? If people afking is the problem, go raid Deklein for afktars. |
Shitposting Forum Alt
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.11.14 00:28:27 -
[17] - Quote
Why you posters here always want to change mining? Miners like the way mining works, go ask them. They are easy to catch and kill and they make little ISK per hour compared to others. Whats the motivation to keep trying to change it, mostly suggested by people who don't even mine? If your answer is AFK, gtfo. Everything is AFK, what do you call PI? |
Faxat
14
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Posted - 2015.11.14 01:19:54 -
[18] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:I AM NOT SUGGESTING MINIGAMES!
Sorry dude; was just trying to add some flesh to my post, not just criticize :-/
Seems people just went nuts over a relatively mining mini game :-)
Faxat out! o/
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2715
|
Posted - 2015.11.14 02:28:46 -
[19] - Quote
Just get rid of the big rocks in high sec.
The really big rocks should only occur outside of empire space.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Darth Squeemus
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.11.14 03:29:43 -
[20] - Quote
What's wrong with AFK miners? If they want to lose their stuff because of inattentiveness, let them. |
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
334
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Posted - 2015.11.14 03:54:57 -
[21] - Quote
Nothing wrong with afk mining, but atk Mining should have its rewards. More than just not losing as many exhumers as afkers, reward people for actively playing the game, rather than just gaming it.
A culture that does not champion courage, heroes and ice cream does not deserve to survive.
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Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
401
|
Posted - 2015.11.14 06:30:43 -
[22] - Quote
Shitposting Forum Alt wrote:Miners like the way mining works No, they don't.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
348
|
Posted - 2015.11.14 06:44:14 -
[23] - Quote
As a miner, I'm content with the way mining works - doesn't mean I like it......
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
|
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2717
|
Posted - 2015.11.14 09:38:06 -
[24] - Quote
Darth Squeemus wrote:What's wrong with AFK miners? If they want to lose their stuff because of inattentiveness, let them. If fit properly in high sec, one does not need to be present to prevent the loss of one's ship.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
|
Kitty Bear
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
1527
|
Posted - 2015.11.14 13:25:06 -
[25] - Quote
Faxat wrote:Not the worst idea, currently the biggest "balance" to the retriever vs procurer is a catalyst.
One thing though - don't assume that miners all go afk while mining, while it certainly happens, it feels like ehat people rather do is to log on multiple accounts and mine 2- 7x the amount.
I would rather they combat this rampant alt/afk mining by implementing minigames to mining to increase yield efficiency. Use something like the "heat" map from PI and have people manually reposition their lasers effectively trippling/quad'ing the yield. The current system just enables eve"s forever present pay2win mentality.
want mini-games in your
select target press F1
missions or pvp
no.
didn't think so |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
637
|
Posted - 2015.11.14 14:16:30 -
[26] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Faxat wrote:Not the worst idea, currently the biggest "balance" to the retriever vs procurer is a catalyst.
One thing though - don't assume that miners all go afk while mining, while it certainly happens, it feels like ehat people rather do is to log on multiple accounts and mine 2- 7x the amount.
I would rather they combat this rampant alt/afk mining by implementing minigames to mining to increase yield efficiency. Use something like the "heat" map from PI and have people manually reposition their lasers effectively trippling/quad'ing the yield. The current system just enables eve"s forever present pay2win mentality. Mini-games will change nothing the afk miners will just use more alts to counter the lower yields, or just mine for a longer period of time to counter the lower yields. Let's face facts here mining does not really require much in the way of movement, hell even drones mining or otherwise can be set to an automated mode so how do you know if a miner you are watching is truly AFK? In the end I find myself in agreement with FT Diomedes. If you hate AFK miners then 1. Join CODE in their quest to counter all AFK play styles with extreme force. 2. Don't like CODE then start your own group. To be sure you understand this -1 to your idea of a mini-game. I never suggested a minigame - please read first post..... Faxat clear suggest a mini-game as a way of curbing AFK mining. If you had read the quoted segment you would have know that. Perhaps it is you who need to learn to read. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
349
|
Posted - 2015.11.14 20:51:54 -
[27] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Xe'Cara'eos wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Faxat wrote:Not the worst idea, currently the biggest "balance" to the retriever vs procurer is a catalyst.
One thing though - don't assume that miners all go afk while mining, while it certainly happens, it feels like ehat people rather do is to log on multiple accounts and mine 2- 7x the amount.
I would rather they combat this rampant alt/afk mining by implementing minigames to mining to increase yield efficiency. Use something like the "heat" map from PI and have people manually reposition their lasers effectively trippling/quad'ing the yield. The current system just enables eve"s forever present pay2win mentality. Mini-games will change nothing the afk miners will just use more alts to counter the lower yields, or just mine for a longer period of time to counter the lower yields. Let's face facts here mining does not really require much in the way of movement, hell even drones mining or otherwise can be set to an automated mode so how do you know if a miner you are watching is truly AFK? In the end I find myself in agreement with FT Diomedes. If you hate AFK miners then 1. Join CODE in their quest to counter all AFK play styles with extreme force. 2. Don't like CODE then start your own group. To be sure you understand this -1 to your idea of a mini-game. I never suggested a minigame - please read first post..... Faxat clear suggest a mini-game as a way of curbing AFK mining. If you had read the quoted segment you would have know that. Perhaps it is you who need to learn to read.
off topic post is about off topic post - please redirect discussion of mining minigame to a different thread.
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Bla5to Frigate
The Praxus Consortium
18
|
Posted - 2015.11.14 21:35:19 -
[28] - Quote
I don't think mining needs any more adjusting.... Just my two cents though.... |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
349
|
Posted - 2015.11.14 22:19:44 -
[29] - Quote
Bla5to Frigate wrote:I don't think mining needs any more adjusting.... Just my two cents though.... fair enough, thanks for your thoughts
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
|
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
639
|
Posted - 2015.11.15 03:27:05 -
[30] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:off topic post is about off topic post - please redirect discussion of mining minigame to a different thread. You started a topic on mining, another person interjected the idea of a mining mini-game making my response to that post on topic.
While we are sparring over being off topic I did notice that you are calling me out for being off topic but not Faxat who posted the idea of a mining mini-game. Why is that? |
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