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Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
77
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 07:54:17 -
[2371] - Quote
Karin Yang wrote:RavenPaine wrote:Morihei Akachi wrote:
That was the original vision of New Eden. A world where you canGÇÖt just dev hack or buy your way out of your biography. Because itGÇÖs real.
People are going to disagree with this violently and IGÇÖm fine with that. This is just my take on it, and an attempt to clarify for myself a little better why I find the idea of buying and selling a characterGÇÖs past so disheartening.
Great points, though I omitted most of it. I'd add that the learning process was/is a 'hook'. It helps define end goals and mistakes, and gives a player a sense of satisfaction when the goal is achieved. In turn, the time spent feels like an investment you have made in your own, real, character. Your money, your time, your character, your creation. It's all important to the mental process when you decide to keep that account subbed. IMO, if you want long term players, you need long term end game goals. The current 'frigates online' state of EVE is already a short train with no real investment. And hasn't that already proven that it doesn't improve player base? Pretty sure it correlates directly with the decline of EVE player base. If 1,000 newbs buy skill points and still lose their cruisers in pitiful fireballs, they'll just be 1,000 frustrated newbs. Skill points won't make them 'better', nor will it make the game more fun. Fun is strictly a state of mind. But whether they quit or stay, they're going to devalue my character in the process. Subscribe and then dock in station doing nothing seems a huge challenge for you towards your goal? It is devalued because what you did is not valuable at all. It's not reasonable that someone is more successful only because he is older. BTW, it needs trillions of ISK to max skill your character, I don't see you have accomplished that goal after this change.
Or you could choose to not be lazy ass and find fun on your own? Ie not demand everything on the plate. There is fun to be there since day 1, there are things to learn, explore etc.
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4178
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 07:56:12 -
[2372] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:just in a less convoluted format Dave, this little detail is actually HUGE...
Today to get ISK out of your subscription time you have to:
. Know about the character bazaar . Learn how it works . Learn how to make a decent, sellable character . Post on the subforum, follow the replies . Do the transfer correctly . Make sure you follow all the rules . Etc.... . EDIT: wait several weeks or more for the char to skill up a bit <-- another HUGE difference, the new system is 'instant SP-to-ISK'
Tomorrow you just need to: . Buy an extractor in Jita . Fill it . Sell the packet in Jita
It's almost the difference between RMT-ing ISK and buying a PLEX in Jita, except of course that the char bazaar is legal thus a bit easier/less worrisome to use.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
78
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:00:59 -
[2373] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Nasar Vyron wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Maraner wrote:Maybe they should just put up a vote on it?
i'd rather they put up a legitimate reason why - as yet none of them apart from steve has. and even steve's reason is terrible. buying sp won't make players think "i need to spend more money" than the current system already does, where the only way to close the sp gap between themselves and established players is to buy a new character from the bazaar. Maybe that's because that's a horrible mentality to take when coming into any game. What kind of expectation is it that someone should be able to pick a game that's been out for so long and suddenly be able to go toe-to-toe with the best? How is that at all reasonable? If you want something like that play a MOBA not an MMORPG. Stop the bastardization of a genre. "we should tell new players to get ****** and refuse to allow the to even attempt to have a level playing field with veterans" and we wonder why the pcu is declining?
No.We all were the very new players. Majority of us started in harsher conditions than they will, we develop through much harder times. And we played through it. And actually had fun and still have nice memories out of it. So I do not see why should it be problem for them as well.
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
78
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:01:52 -
[2374] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Laodell wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Maraner wrote:Maybe they should just put up a vote on it?
i'd rather they put up a legitimate reason why - as yet none of them apart from steve has. and even steve's reason is terrible. buying sp won't make players think "i need to spend more money" than the current system already does, where the only way to close the sp gap between themselves and established players is to buy a new character from the bazaar. I wonder what advantage Stark see's so clearly for himself that he would be pushing this so vehemently for so many 118 pages Dave Stark seems to be the village loud mouth that screams at everyone that whatever he thinks is a good idea has to be done. It's not a personal attack so much as pointing out his arguments should have not one whit more validity just because he's been repeating them over and over. none what so ever. i've just yet to see, after 118 pages an argument for why this shouldn't be included other than "i don't like it". nobody has pointed out a single reason why this is bad other than "i don't like it" or pretending pre-existing issues will suddenly exist. we've always purchased and sold sp, new players have always felt obligated to buy characters to bypass tedious months of training support skills etc whether that be by grinding isk really slowly in their low sp pilots or opening their wallet. in the absence of any reasons why this is bad - why wouldn't we add this? if i were CCP and the CSM all sat there and went "i don't like it" but none of them actually put forward a reason why it's bad - i'd laugh at them and release the devblog too.
Dont start again. Either counter argument my arguments which were made 50 pages ago or drop this stupid "no one gave any arguments". And there were others who did some solid arguments as well...
I hope CCP are not shallow as it seems at the moment and that they will take an effort to read all arguments. And then provide us answers on those.
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
|
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
152
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:02:48 -
[2375] - Quote
Laodell wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Maraner wrote:Maybe they should just put up a vote on it?
i'd rather they put up a legitimate reason why - as yet none of them apart from steve has. and even steve's reason is terrible. buying sp won't make players think "i need to spend more money" than the current system already does, where the only way to close the sp gap between themselves and established players is to buy a new character from the bazaar. I wonder what advantage Stark see's so clearly for himself that he would be pushing this so vehemently for so many 118 pages Dave Stark seems to be the village loud mouth that screams at everyone that whatever he thinks is a good idea has to be done. It's not a personal attack so much as pointing out his arguments should have not one whit more validity just because he's been repeating them over and over.
He's probably a Dev alt. |
Dave Stark
7571
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:05:00 -
[2376] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Dave Stark wrote:just in a less convoluted format Dave, this little detail is actually HUGE... Today to get ISK out of your subscription time you have to: . Know about the character bazaar . Learn how it works . Learn how to make a decent, sellable character . Post on the subforum, follow the replies . Do the transfer correctly . Make sure you follow all the rules . Etc.... Tomorrow you just need to: . Buy an extractor in Jita . Fill it . Sell the packet in Jita It's almost the difference between RMT-ing ISK and buying a PLEX in Jita, except of course that the char bazaar is legal thus a bit easier/less worrisome to use.
it's not huge though.
what have ccp systematically been doing for the last few years? removing all the convoluted crap causing eve to just be an obtuse and uncooperative game.
this idea in itself is nothing - essentially it's nothing more than one of karkur's little things like tidying up the UI (and we all now how awesome they are, and why it has made karkur one of the communities favourite devs). nothing actually changes within the game but the game simply less obtuse and that improves the game without changing it.
pretending this idea will kill eve or something is completely laughable. if selling SP was going to kill eve, it would have a long time ago with the bazaar. clearly the game hasn't died so selling SP really isn't that big of a deal. is there honestly a legitimate reason why it should be obtuse and difficult to use?
i don't recall seeing mass calls for the removal of the bazaar - so if i seem condescending in half of my replies on earlier pages it's because i regard those people, quite frankly, as hypocrites. |
Hulk Miner
White Horse Incorporated
34
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:05:39 -
[2377] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:i've just yet to see, after 118 pages an argument for why this shouldn't be included other than "i don't like it".
This seems to bypass the EVE experience and removes any consequences involved with any choices made by a player.
EVE was founded on premise of everybody has a choice and behind that choice there may be consequences. When injecting skills over the 9 years playing EVE I have made some good and bad choices with my characters and learned by my mistakes, this is a part of the EVE online experience and grows you into a more experienced/knowledgeable pilot. Though I have traded characters for the best majority of these tis still not the same as hot swapping skill points and there must be better options than suggested by the OP?
Even giving a new player more starting SP and a selection of starting roles and pre skilling needed skills to give them a turbo boost into the game content would sound more viable.
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Dave Stark
7571
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:07:19 -
[2378] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Dont start again. Either counter argument my arguments which were made 50 pages ago or drop this stupid "no one gave any arguments". And there were others who did some solid arguments as well...
I hope CCP are not shallow as it seems at the moment and that they will take an effort to read all arguments. And then provide us answers on those.
start what?
you keep saying arguments were made yet none of them have been reproduced regardless of my asking for them. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4178
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:07:45 -
[2379] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:No.We all were the very new players. Majority of us started in harsher conditions than they will, we develop through much harder times. And we played through it. And actually had fun and still have nice memories out of it. So I do not see why should it be problem for them as well. Don, I apologize I'm starting to slip towards the dark side too...
Re your point, I enjoyed every minute of being a new player. I'm still relatively new after 2 years.
At the time, I had the option to sell PLEX obviously, to make ISK faster. I never did, because I enjoy the challenge more.
But I never once cared that other players could have more ISK than me by buying PLEX. To each their own. I even felt prouder to do it 'the hard way'.
Couldn't the same philosphy apply to SP trading? We all know that more SP gives you more options, but certainly doesn't make you a better player... Why not let the 'shortcut lovers' pay more than the hardcore gamers?
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Theo Sotken
Mother Knows Best Corporation
42
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:08:29 -
[2380] - Quote
thebarry wrote:Why are all these nerds talking about pay2win? You can buy characters right now through the bazaar, if that's ok then whytf isn't buying sp ok too? I have 20m I'd happily sell off...I think this is a fine idea.
No difference between this and the bizaar? Why not just sell that ugly mutt of a character now and quit whining about that 20million sp you misspent over the years your character developed.
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darkchild's corpse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:09:24 -
[2381] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
start what?
you keep saying arguments were made yet none of them have been reproduced regardless of my asking for them.
thats the thing... read them where they were made in the first place... trolllololo |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4178
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:10:29 -
[2382] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Dave Stark wrote:just in a less convoluted format Dave, this little detail is actually HUGE... Today to get ISK out of your subscription time you have to: . Know about the character bazaar . Learn how it works . Learn how to make a decent, sellable character . Post on the subforum, follow the replies . Do the transfer correctly . Make sure you follow all the rules . Etc.... Tomorrow you just need to: . Buy an extractor in Jita . Fill it . Sell the packet in Jita It's almost the difference between RMT-ing ISK and buying a PLEX in Jita, except of course that the char bazaar is legal thus a bit easier/less worrisome to use. it's not huge though. what have ccp systematically been doing for the last few years? removing all the convoluted crap causing eve to just be an obtuse and uncooperative game. this idea in itself is nothing - essentially it's nothing more than one of karkur's little things like tidying up the UI (and we all now how awesome they are, and why it has made karkur one of the communities favourite devs). nothing actually changes within the game but the game simply less obtuse and that improves the game without changing it. pretending this idea will kill eve or something is completely laughable. if selling SP was going to kill eve, it would have a long time ago with the bazaar. clearly the game hasn't died so selling SP really isn't that big of a deal. is there honestly a legitimate reason why it should be obtuse and difficult to use? i don't recall seeing mass calls for the removal of the bazaar - so if i seem condescending in half of my replies on earlier pages it's because i regard those people, quite frankly, as hypocrites. I'm not saying this will kill EVE, but I'm pretty sure that both supply and demand of SP will skyrocket because of an incredibly easier way to trade it.
It's like going from barter to currency.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
78
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:11:45 -
[2383] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Dont start again. Either counter argument my arguments which were made 50 pages ago or drop this stupid "no one gave any arguments". And there were others who did some solid arguments as well...
I hope CCP are not shallow as it seems at the moment and that they will take an effort to read all arguments. And then provide us answers on those. start what? you keep saying arguments were made yet none of them have been reproduced regardless of my asking for them.
Start with shallow spam and stating no one gave arguments without actually countering them. If they are weak you should have no problem to challenge them, other way you are just troll/spammer.
And there are arguments, saying they are none will not make them disappear as they are written down in the topic. So anyone actually caring to read the topic will see your "game".
I am going out now, but i will gladly read your counter arguments later tonight and discuss on them. If you make them that is.
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Dave Stark
7571
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:12:22 -
[2384] - Quote
Hulk Miner wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i've just yet to see, after 118 pages an argument for why this shouldn't be included other than "i don't like it".
This seems to bypass the EVE experience and removes any consequences involved with any choices made by a player.
EVE was founded on premise of everybody has a choice and behind that choice there may be consequences. When injecting skills over the 9 years playing EVE I have made some good and bad choices with my characters and learned by my mistakes, this is a part of the EVE online experience and grows you into a more experienced/knowledgeable pilot. Though I have traded characters for the best majority of these tis still not the same as hot swapping skill points and there must be better options than suggested by the OP? Even giving a new player more starting SP and a selection of starting roles and pre skilling needed skills to give them a turbo boost into the game content would sound more viable.
this system has a myriad of consequences. the quite literal isk and/or real money cost of extracting SP. then the diminishing returns where reallocating that SP magically destroys up to 90% of that SP.
bypass the eve experience? that's exactly what the character bazaar does now. i assume by "eve experience" you mean "waiting an abitrary amount of time for a timer to expire so you can do something else"?
so we're already bypassing things, and consequences still exist. we haven't removed any consequences and bypassing things isn't new. |
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
78
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:14:31 -
[2385] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:No.We all were the very new players. Majority of us started in harsher conditions than they will, we develop through much harder times. And we played through it. And actually had fun and still have nice memories out of it. So I do not see why should it be problem for them as well. Don, I apologize I'm starting to slip towards the dark side too... Re your point, I enjoyed every minute of being a new player. I'm still relatively new after 2 years. At the time, I had the option to sell PLEX obviously, to make ISK faster. I never did, because I enjoy the challenge more. But I never once cared that other players could have more ISK than me by buying PLEX. To each their own. I even felt prouder to do it 'the hard way'. Couldn't the same philosphy apply to SP trading? We all know that more SP gives you more options, but certainly doesn't make you a better player... Why not let the 'shortcut lovers' pay more than the hardcore gamers?
No worries, I am not referring to that "history" post but to posts with numerous arguments and expectations like 50 and 70 pages ago. Until someone counters them with some reasonable explanation I will stand by the fact that this is easily the worst decision ever since it will change fundamentals of the game for unknown expectations without helping more than minor percent of the players.
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
|
Theo Sotken
Mother Knows Best Corporation
42
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:15:37 -
[2386] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Dave Stark wrote:just in a less convoluted format Dave, this little detail is actually HUGE... Today to get ISK out of your subscription time you have to: . Know about the character bazaar . Learn how it works . Learn how to make a decent, sellable character . Post on the subforum, follow the replies . Do the transfer correctly . Make sure you follow all the rules . Etc.... . EDIT: wait several weeks or more for the char to skill up a bit <-- another HUGE difference, the new system is 'instant SP-to-ISK' Tomorrow you just need to: . Buy an extractor in Jita . Fill it . Sell the packet in Jita It's almost the difference between RMT-ing ISK and buying a PLEX in Jita, except of course that the char bazaar is legal thus a bit easier/less worrisome to use.
You missed the bit where you pay CCP cash to bypass the current system as the extractors will only be created by paying aur. |
Dave Stark
7571
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:16:09 -
[2387] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
start what?
you keep saying arguments were made yet none of them have been reproduced regardless of my asking for them.
thats the thing... read them where they were made in the first place... trolllololo
if there were any, they'd have been used to counter my points by now. i'm not in the habit of chasing fairy tales. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4178
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:19:01 -
[2388] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:No worries, I am not referring to that "history" post but to posts with numerous arguments and expectations like 50 and 70 pages ago. Until someone counters them with some reasonable explanation I will stand by the fact that this is easily the worst decision ever since it will change fundamentals of the game for unknown expectations without helping more than minor percent of the players. Did you consider the fact that every single subscribed account will be able to get ISK for any and all not needed SP? And that SP accumulates constantly?
That means that potentially 100% of EVE players can grind less for ISK (and/or PLEX), provided obviously that on the other side there are ISK- (and/or cash-) rich players willing to buy SP.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
437
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:19:09 -
[2389] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:For people quitting in protest I remind them that Operation Magic School Bus does accept donations to help out the new players. Yes, this is a 'can I haz' post but it is one where the material will be put to good use, not just lining a wallet or hanger. Contract to me if you wish to donate.
m People threaten to rage over everything these days. I don't see a reason to over this devblog as it is put out as a proposal to gather feedback and start a dialogue. People should always welcome such things. I can understand some people's frustrations though as they associate every word that comes out from any employee of CCP as the company's policy. I'm not privy to their inner workings but I suspect they have many independent offices, teams and devs. Many of them seem to be misaligned and have different ideas about EVE. If I thought that CCP as a compnay was seriously pushing for this idea I would be very worried. Everyone has their limit and there are some lines that should not be crossed. What line are they crossing here that hasn't already been crossed?
They've gotten away with non-vanity RMT for a while now but it has been in limited and insignificant form. I'm not counting PLEX. This is RMT in a major game changing way. It goes against everything that this game is built on. I'm not going to repeat myself so just read here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6100830#post6100830 |
Dave Stark
7571
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:19:51 -
[2390] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Until someone counters them with some reasonable explanation I will stand by the fact that this is easily the worst decision ever since it will change fundamentals of the game for unknown expectations without helping more than minor percent of the players.
this is one for when you get back then, Don.
let's start at the beginning.
What fundamentals are being changed?
buying/selling SP? no. we're already doing that with the character bazaar. bypassing the skill training system? no. we're already doing that with the charcter bazaar. "now we can get characters with 400m sp" - so what problem does that cause? |
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darkchild's corpse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:20:37 -
[2391] - Quote
thats exactly like this other guy... "why is it a bad idea?" "it was already explained, read it" "no, i'm too lazy, your point is invalid"
yeah... thats exactly how it works... *facepalm* |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4178
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:21:17 -
[2392] - Quote
Theo Sotken wrote:You missed the bit where you pay CCP cash to bypass the current system as the extractors will only be created by paying aur. Yes, CCP certainly gets extra cash, actually I ranted about this a few dozen pages ago.
But you'll be able to buy extractors for ISK, then sell packets for a higher amount of ISK (exact numbers are anyone's guess atm).
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
437
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:24:20 -
[2393] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote:I'm sure someone probably already mentioned this but this is nothing short of RMT to skill up.
Basically, you get as many alts as your wallet allows. You start training them and every 5mil SP you strip their SP and inject into your main. You can basically have alt farms to win. With character bazaar or just training alts, you can gain an advantage but they're still stuck in their respective speeds, roles and skills. This is LITERALLY paying $ to accelerate skill training with no limit to it. The only limit is how much you're willing to spend to accelerate your skill training. so, your issue is what exactly? that it's a paid service, or you can have as much sp as you want? what exactly is the grip here? we know how the system works, there's a whole devblog telling us that.
I thought that part was obviously clear. If it's not to you then you probably will not understand. |
darkchild's corpse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:27:20 -
[2394] - Quote
the last 50 pages are just dave trolling and ppl feeding him. but if that helps to make CCP aware that this is a very sensible topic... feed him \o/ |
Dave Stark
7571
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:27:56 -
[2395] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote:I'm sure someone probably already mentioned this but this is nothing short of RMT to skill up.
Basically, you get as many alts as your wallet allows. You start training them and every 5mil SP you strip their SP and inject into your main. You can basically have alt farms to win. With character bazaar or just training alts, you can gain an advantage but they're still stuck in their respective speeds, roles and skills. This is LITERALLY paying $ to accelerate skill training with no limit to it. The only limit is how much you're willing to spend to accelerate your skill training. so, your issue is what exactly? that it's a paid service, or you can have as much sp as you want? what exactly is the grip here? we know how the system works, there's a whole devblog telling us that. I thought that part was obviously clear. If it's not to you then you probably will not understand.
oh look, a condescending insult rather than a legitimate point.
all you've done is whine that people can use the system - you've yet to point out why using this new system is an issue, |
Laodell
Executable Inc.
31
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:28:09 -
[2396] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:i would honestly rather upset people with 200m sp than see the game full of dreadful adverts.
there's a reason pretty much all of us install ad blockers on our browsers.
All other issues not withstanding I am actually with this guy. It's bad enough windows 1984 ( Windows 10 ) is offering ads on the start menu. I would hurl if I saw them in Eve Online also. |
Dave Stark
7571
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:30:27 -
[2397] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:the last 50 pages are just dave trolling and ppl feeding him. but if that helps to make CCP aware that this is a very sensible topic... feed him \o/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO2cHJmDkBg |
BroodAlpha
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
6
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:36:36 -
[2398] - Quote
Hello guys,
I'm going to go ahead and say I really dislike the premise of this change and with the diminishing returns it feels like CCP is doing this to make the lives of newbeans easier (which is cool), but this ostracizes the entire older player community. As a director of a newbean corp I would normally be in favor of a change like this but I am not.
I have been playing for a year and a half and I would not have the toons that I have right now, and the capital I earned from the Bazaar would be negligible if these proposed changes were live when I started.
1) SP on the Bazaar holds value because characters are uniquely trained. With these skillpoint sucker doo-hiccies no character is unique any more because people can just remap whatever.
2) The value of high SP characters drops through the floor due to the diminishing returns on the extractors.
3) It puts a monetary value on SP in certain ranges, meaning that players no longer decide the value of toons which was half the fun of the bazaar.
4) It removes the most stable market in the game, SP. SP was stable because you couldn't mess with it. With these proposed changes, you can.
To put this into terms for you guys I have made a lot of ISK from character sales on the Bazaar using this strategy:
1) Look for a relatively well trained toon that needs a bit of fixing up, but not too much.
2) Acquire toon for a good SP/ISK ratio (3m SP per Billion ISK)
3) Train holes in toon
4) Flip for profit
Is this possible with the new system? Not really, because rich toffs can just manipulate characters so they're perfect, meaning that unless you pump money into making sure that no SP is wasted, the value of toons drops through the floor.
One of my recent transactions netted me 15b ISK profit for doing 2 months training. This is because I put a bunch of time into learning the market, toon values and learning what skills EVE players put value in. There's also no scamming on the Bazaar so it's the safest place to invest your ISK.
I don't think anyone expected CCP to suggest messing with skill points... After this change, I will no longer be using the Bazaar.
BroodAlpha is trained almost perfectly outside of the Mining V and Gas Cloud Mining V. Do I want to be able to reallocate those SP? Sure it'd be cool, but it's NOT worth changing the entire system for and it devalues all my other toons. I task anyone to go to the Bazaar right now and find me a better trained 64m SP allround subcap toon.
tl;dr
Worst idea I've heard of since Jump Fatigue being applied to jump bridges (Remember the change was supposed to nerf capital projection, not the ability of sovholding alliances to move their subcap fleets around). |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4178
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:38:14 -
[2399] - Quote
Oh, by the way, I suspect this would totally nuke the character bazaar.
Today, if you spend 6 months training a char to sell, I assume you'll want at least 6 PLEX for it, plus 2 PLEX transfer fees etc.
That's because, from the seller's perspective, the PLEX spent went ENTIRELY into Skill Points.
But that's not true. 1 PLEX buys you 2 things at a time:
1) yes, a month's worth of SP
2) also, incidentally, a month's worth of game time
With the new system, anyone can sell SP from their ACTIVE accounts. That is, from the accounts that they are already using, and subbing/PLEXing, to play with.
Now, if you spend a PLEX on an active account, how much of that PLEX do you feel is giving you game time and how much gives you SP???
In other words, what fraction of a PLEX would you consider a 'fair market price' for a month's worth of SP?
It's anybody's guess, but the answer is certainly less than 100%, or a full PLEX...
Interesting times ahead...
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Laodell
Executable Inc.
31
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Posted - 2015.10.17 08:39:00 -
[2400] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Laodell wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Maraner wrote:Maybe they should just put up a vote on it?
i'd rather they put up a legitimate reason why - as yet none of them apart from steve has. and even steve's reason is terrible. buying sp won't make players think "i need to spend more money" than the current system already does, where the only way to close the sp gap between themselves and established players is to buy a new character from the bazaar. I wonder what advantage Stark see's so clearly for himself that he would be pushing this so vehemently for so many 118 pages Dave Stark seems to be the village loud mouth that screams at everyone that whatever he thinks is a good idea has to be done. It's not a personal attack so much as pointing out his arguments should have not one whit more validity just because he's been repeating them over and over. none what so ever. i've just yet to see, after 118 pages an argument for why this shouldn't be included other than "i don't like it". nobody has pointed out a single reason why this is bad other than "i don't like it" or pretending pre-existing issues will suddenly exist. we've always purchased and sold sp, new players have always felt obligated to buy characters to bypass tedious months of training support skills etc whether that be by grinding isk really slowly in their low sp pilots or opening their wallet. in the absence of any reasons why this is bad - why wouldn't we add this? if i were CCP and the CSM all sat there and went "i don't like it" but none of them actually put forward a reason why it's bad - i'd laugh at them and release the devblog too.
There you go again.
If that's all you see then you have clearly failed at English comprehension, or you are deliberately pretending to be ignorant of the 118 pages of vary valid points made by people saying " I don't like this and here's my argument".
There's at least a good solid full day or 2 days worth of arguments against this with approval from people that have no frame of reference to understand our knowledge of game mechanics after TEN YEARS or MORE playing the game
We understand how it's been working Dude. We know, we get it. We have been around in both Eve Online and the Real World long enough to be capable of understanding how this mistake will proceed.
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