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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2006.12.11 21:35:00 -
[31]
A stacking penalty would be OK - people have been fitting 2x nos to ships forever, I remember it being standard on many a setup even in mid-2004 and it never broke the game.
The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them?
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.11 22:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy A stacking penalty would be OK - people have been fitting 2x nos to ships forever, I remember it being standard on many a setup even in mid-2004 and it never broke the game.
The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them?
They can fit some Nos and some Neuts? ... |
Dephma
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:05:00 -
[33]
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
========= You would make a lovely corpse |
R'adeh
Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dephma There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
There ya go, this is the only right solution! Adapt or die, most modules have a successful counter __________________________________________________
My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma! |
Yoshimako
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:17:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dephma There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
Sure, okay, we can do that, lets just make the charges half of their current size to compensate. Now please stfu.
Imo the stacking penalty sounds like the best idea. Make them pretty much useless past 3 NOS's, If anyone then wants more they can fit 3 neuts aswell. It allows for the tactical use and prevents the I-Win setups that are currently being used.
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LWMaverick
Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:29:00 -
[36]
Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
<3 |
Drazin DawnTreader
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:33:00 -
[37]
I'd like to see the NoS modules have a min/max range attached. Small NoS: 0-10,000m Med. NoS: 10,000m - 20,000m Heavy NoS: 20,000m-40,000m
Would make it more interesting for tacklers. Can you get past that Heavy NoS range before you are sucked dry and your MWD shuts off? Extended Small NoS range so if you can be webbed, you can NoS back.
Something to think about anyway.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:47:00 -
[38]
Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
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Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:51:00 -
[39]
Make nosferatus turn your ship pink, that'll do fine.
(Poor dead horse by the way)
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:53:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
No, it only delays the inevitable. And while you get some cap from the injections you are still fueling the nossers tank... - - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2006.12.12 00:48:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Cmdr Sy The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them?
They can fit some Nos and some Neuts?
4x Nos, 1x Neut on mine, two nos feed the neut, and the other two are there to prevent the thing from turning into a deathtrap if someone nosses me back. 3x nos, 2x neut with a stacking penalty to nos, is not going to work. Sure, you can fit a couple of guns, but that would completely destroy the purpose of the thing.
Just wondering then, since it takes 2x nos to feed a single neut, how do people propose to feed a neutraliser if nos have a stacking penalty? <--- Anyone? Answers on a postcard.
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everlasting shadow
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Posted - 2006.12.12 01:49:00 -
[42]
Hi All, I think that all of this is just a waste of time. There is always going to be some sort of I win button for someone. You can re write the whole program and people will always find someone complaining that there is I win button on this or that.
I had a Domi with 2large nos and I lost because I did not have guns and the guy had 800 cap running while he finished me off. It's how you set it up and who you fighting. Get over it people.
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Xtro 2
Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:08:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 12/12/2006 02:10:04 the dominix etc is not a good NOS ship, any ship that can slap on a tank and all highs is a good NOS ship.
I have a megathron with 8x hvy nos, does that mean the thron should be nerfed?
How about the geddon? apoc?
Dominix is just popular because its crap at any other role tbh, its cheap, and has drone bonus, but if your opponent has no cap left, who cares if you have a dmg bonus or not, a geddon, thron or any other will do the job of nossing far better than a domi.
As for nerfing them, thats a dumb idea, the games going to be utterly ruined once every item in the game has been penalised to death because someone manages to adapt to a previous nerf and it becomes a popular idea. Mind you were not far off that now.
. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically stemming from a form of mental illness. |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:24:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Goumindong on 12/12/2006 02:24:32
Originally by: Xtro 2 Edited by: Xtro 2 on 12/12/2006 02:10:04 the dominix etc is not a good NOS ship, any ship that can slap on a tank and all highs is a good NOS ship.
I have a megathron with 8x hvy nos, does that mean the thron should be nerfed?
How about the geddon? apoc?
Dominix is just popular because its crap at any other role tbh, its cheap, and has drone bonus, but if your opponent has no cap left, who cares if you have a dmg bonus or not, a geddon, thron or any other will do the job of nossing far better than a domi.
As for nerfing them, thats a dumb idea, the games going to be utterly ruined once every item in the game has been penalised to death because someone manages to adapt to a previous nerf and it becomes a popular idea. Mind you were not far off that now.
Acutaly, its good because it can still do good damage while nossing. A geddon isnt bad with its 5 heavies, but the Domi is 30-50% better, and if you pop its drones, its got spares[Alternatly, it can use EW drones until you are nossed, thus reducing its exposure to damage even furhter], and enough mids to fit a decent EW.
Which makes the domi better than the Thron and Geddon for nossing. Nossing is about limiting your exposure to damage before your opponent is neutralized and being able to do damage while he is neutralized. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:29:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
no it doesn't, all it does is keep there tank going longer.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:30:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Cmdr Sy The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them?
They can fit some Nos and some Neuts?
4x Nos, 1x Neut on mine, two nos feed the neut, and the other two are there to prevent the thing from turning into a deathtrap if someone nosses me back. 3x nos, 2x neut with a stacking penalty to nos, is not going to work. Sure, you can fit a couple of guns, but that would completely destroy the purpose of the thing.
Just wondering then, since it takes 2x nos to feed a single neut, how do people propose to feed a neutraliser if nos have a stacking penalty? <--- Anyone? Answers on a postcard.
cap injectors work.
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Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:35:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Dixon on 12/12/2006 02:35:40
Originally by: Xtro 2 Edited by: Xtro 2 on 12/12/2006 02:10:04 the dominix etc is not a good NOS ship, any ship that can slap on a tank and all highs is a good NOS ship.
I have a megathron with 8x hvy nos, does that mean the thron should be nerfed?
How about the geddon? apoc?
Dominix is just popular because its crap at any other role tbh, its cheap, and has drone bonus, but if your opponent has no cap left, who cares if you have a dmg bonus or not, a geddon, thron or any other will do the job of nossing far better than a domi.
As for nerfing them, thats a dumb idea, the games going to be utterly ruined once every item in the game has been penalised to death because someone manages to adapt to a previous nerf and it becomes a popular idea. Mind you were not far off that now.
Neither the Armageddon nor the Megathron have the CPU to fit 8 heavy nos. They also don't have a dronebonus, 5 medslots or a 375m3 dronebay.
Nerfing nos isn't dumb, I'm not sure the same can be said for you though. - - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:38:00 -
[48]
Giving nos equipped ships a sig radius penalty is insane. What would all the small ships with that empty hi slot fit? A salvager?
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Jang Ezhdeha
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Posted - 2006.12.12 04:01:00 -
[49]
Stacking Penalty sounds good but unless its a major penalty its not going to make much difference on a ship running 4 NOS and 1-2 Neuts. A different alternative could be "NOS/Neut Slots" just like Launcher and Turret slots AND extra slots on those ships that already have bonuses to them for NOS and Neuts so they arent rendered as a useless bonus. Sometimes the best soloution to a problem isnt a complicated mathematical formula but rather simple addition or subtraction.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.12.12 04:27:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
no it doesn't, all it does is keep there tank going longer.
What? Are you honestly telling me you can't figure out how to stagger injections and module use to minimize their capgain and maximize yours? Or are you just wanting a module that you activate and gain immunity to Nos?
Seriously, if I can run a Cruiser and keep my cap up under Nossing from a Curse with a single injector long enough to kill a Curse with 5 Med Nos, it works fine. Maybe even better than fine.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.12.12 04:30:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
No, it only delays the inevitable. And while you get some cap from the injections you are still fueling the nossers tank...
Delays the inevitable?! What's wrong with you people?!
It's a perfect counter to Nos. They drain your cap, you inject it. If you time it right, you use up 90% of the cap. Yes, they almost inevitably gain some of it. But if they didn't, you'd be running your entire setup off a single midslot and making their 4-6 Highs invested in Nos useless.
Them getting cap is a risk you take for having a single module that can run your entire setup. Stop whining.
And what would a Nos-counter do? Reduce Nossing amount by 30%? Sure looks like 'delaying the inevitable' to me.
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xKillaH
Minmatar Cruor Frater Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.12.12 11:04:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy A stacking penalty would be OK - people have been fitting 2x nos to ships forever, I remember it being standard on many a setup even in mid-2004 and it never broke the game.
The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them?
Maybe they could add a little bonus. But I think most Curses and Pilgrims use neuts.
Originally by: Dephma There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
Cap Injector doesn't keep your ship alive if it's being nossed by 6-8 heavy nos. You will die and 1 Cap Injector wonŠt save you. There's two ways. Nerf nos or boost cap injectors/cap charges. Decrease the m3 the cap charges take. Cap Charges are not endless. After they are finished you are dead.
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader I'd like to see the NoS modules have a min/max range attached. Small NoS: 0-10,000m Med. NoS: 10,000m - 20,000m Heavy NoS: 20,000m-40,000m
Would make it more interesting for tacklers. Can you get past that Heavy NoS range before you are sucked dry and your MWD shuts off? Extended Small NoS range so if you can be webbed, you can NoS back.
Something to think about anyway.
If that would be done then only sniping ships would fit nos and I don't think that's a smart idea. Nos is for closerange and I don't think that will be changed
For A Extra Christmas sig click Here (too big for the forums) |
Olev
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Posted - 2006.12.12 12:36:00 -
[53]
how to make em like targer painters work? so they have a optimal range. more sig radius for more nos u have?
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2006.12.12 12:43:00 -
[54]
I wote for the simple solution. Remove them (nos) from the game. Neuts are fine, as they take as much from the target as the user. Nosses just take with no drawback.
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Soraya Kha'marr
Amarr Gun Metal Priests The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.12.12 13:12:00 -
[55]
i like the idea from ealier in the thread: make the NOS use cap as well, like a neut, but this cap use can be reduced using the energy emissions skills. that way, they are not only different from neuts as you gain some cap no matter what your skill lvl is, but they are also reduced in effectiveness. currently, they are offensive and defensive - you gain cap, your opponent loses it. if its changed the way it was proposed, its still very offensive, with its defensive side reduced. it will also take brains to use. at the moment its 'get in range and hit the nos button'. with the above change, you can only NOS for a certain amount of time. if you nos for too long, you lose cap.
Introduce a sig radius for nos and alls sorted. small ships can use their nos against bigger ships to power their modules. big ships can still use nos against smaller ships, but with reduced effectiveness. Heck, you can even introduce a stacking penalty (curse and pilgrim excluded) if you must.
Wouldnt that solve it all?
This space is mine, mine alone!!!oneoneeleven! (You can rent it for cookies though.)
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Mekkan Eil
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Posted - 2006.12.12 13:22:00 -
[56]
The danger with nerfing Nosferatu is that we risk turning combat into a slug fest where only guns matter. Whether Nos are overpowered or not, if no one has to worry about encountering a ship that uses them, everyone will fit lots of guns, press F1 through F8, and wait.
Nosferatu add a level of complexity to combat, and a totally new way to play. Not everyone wants to fly a gun ship, or a missile boat - it is good that there are other viable methods of combat. If anything, I think it would be exciting to even more non-turret high slot weapons added, though I'm not sure what they would be.
Nosferatu keep combat varied, and prevent a "big guns win" mentality from taking over. Variety and complexity are some of EVE's most appealing, and most beautifully executed features.
Best wishes, Mekkan Eil
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.12 13:26:00 -
[57]
Nos is fine, there's a few ships for which it works exceptionally well and if you're fighting them then you damn well should change your setup to account for this.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: xKillaH
Cap Injector doesn't keep your ship alive if it's being nossed by 6-8 heavy nos. You will die and 1 Cap Injector wonŠt save you. There's two ways. Nerf nos or boost cap injectors/cap charges. Decrease the m3 the cap charges take. Cap Charges are not endless. After they are finished you are dead.
What is wrong with you people, seriously? Does anyone else not see how stupid it looks to be whining that your one midslot won't save you from a ship that has dedicated 6-8 of it's highslots to Heavy Nos?
I guess we should nerf TDs, because one Tracking Comp won't save me from 5-6 Tracking Disruptors.
And nerf Sensor Damps because when someone puts 6-8 RSDs on me, my one sensor booster won't counter it all.
And nerf ECM because I can still be jammed easily by 6-8 ECM modules, despite having fit an ECCM module.
Now since those all look horribly stupid, why should fitting a single injector save you from 6-8 Heavy Nos? Especially if you won't make an effort to time the injector right and maximize it's effectiveness.
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Xtro 2
Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dixon Edited by: Dixon on 12/12/2006 02:35:40
Originally by: Xtro 2 Edited by: Xtro 2 on 12/12/2006 02:10:04 the dominix etc is not a good NOS ship, any ship that can slap on a tank and all highs is a good NOS ship.
I have a megathron with 8x hvy nos, does that mean the thron should be nerfed?
How about the geddon? apoc?
Dominix is just popular because its crap at any other role tbh, its cheap, and has drone bonus, but if your opponent has no cap left, who cares if you have a dmg bonus or not, a geddon, thron or any other will do the job of nossing far better than a domi.
As for nerfing them, thats a dumb idea, the games going to be utterly ruined once every item in the game has been penalised to death because someone manages to adapt to a previous nerf and it becomes a popular idea. Mind you were not far off that now.
Neither the Armageddon nor the Megathron have the CPU to fit 8 heavy nos. They also don't have a dronebonus, 5 medslots or a 375m3 dronebay.
Nerfing nos isn't dumb, I'm not sure the same can be said for you though.
those ships can easily fit 8 heavy nos, my megathron has 8 fitted, and a full standard armour tank, as for drone bonus, well unless your fighting a missile boat, who cares about your damage, as long as the other guys cap is empty, your in no rush.
. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically stemming from a form of mental illness. |
Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: xKillaH Hey there. I was told that Nosferatu was going to get nerfed. Ships like Rokh and Domi are the uber nos ships. Nos are probably being nerfed because of theese two ships. I was just wondering if they get nerfed what will CCP decrease? It must be the drain ammount. Instead of decreasing drain ammount then CCP should consider having it like the damage mods. After 3 damage mods you're bonus you get from the next damage mod you fit will decrease. For Nosferatu it'll be after 2-3 nos (dunno how many) the drain ammount will decrease.
Discuss
Hey, what is so good in Nos-Rokh? --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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