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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.01.31 18:31:00 -
[31]
We're thinking of very different ships all of a sudden : p
Your idea is perfectly valid, I quite like it, something that can actually do something industrial and scientific onboard, but what I'm asking for is small exploration ships.
Almost the kinda thing that would undock from your ship in most sci-fi films/books. ---------------------------------------- Proposed new ship class |
Nian Banks
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.02.01 01:58:00 -
[32]
Ah your talking about an expedition probe ship? as in a cruiser sized probe vessel? That would be sweet also.
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Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.02.01 12:42:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Nian Banks Ah your talking about an expedition probe ship? as in a cruiser sized probe vessel? That would be sweet also.
Actually, I'm talking about the frigate sized probe vessel that I described in the original post... ---------------------------------------- Proposed new ship class |
Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.02.01 12:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Nian Banks Ah your talking about an expedition probe ship? as in a cruiser sized probe vessel? That would be sweet also.
Actually, I'm talking about the frigate sized probe vessel that I described in the original post... ---------------------------------------- Proposed new ship class |
Nian Banks
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.02.01 16:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Erim Solfara
Originally by: Nian Banks Ah your talking about an expedition probe ship? as in a cruiser sized probe vessel? That would be sweet also.
Actually, I'm talking about the frigate sized probe vessel that I described in the original post...
Lol, thats what I get for starting to reply to a thread when I am half asleep.
Anyway I like your idea but perhaps it would be better to just reinclude the missing amarr ship and then think t2 probe launching cruiser? :) There are so many t2 frigates and all are good, tho I wouldn't object to a t2 astrometrics frigates I would so much love to have a cruiser do that. The amarr need their t1 variant to be allowable (if its too good then nerf it a little as a standard model) but lets think bigger. :)
Oh and my misdirected off topic comments still apply as a damned sweet idea (so I think...)
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Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.02.01 18:07:00 -
[36]
You could always start your own thread for your ship : P
I suggested the tech 2 frigates because the whole point of this suggestion is it's very simple to implement, there are already models in place with the appropriate bonuses, creating Tech 2 versions would take a day... smaller ships are more affordable, more nimble, and more suited to the role.
Creating new cruisers from scratch would take alot more effort, and they would be less suited to the role.
I'm sticking to my lasers here. ---------------------------------------- Proposed new ship class |
Nian Banks
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.02.03 00:26:00 -
[37]
Ok lets look at it seriously then, amarr definately need a tech1 astrometrics frigate, thats a certainty. However to create it you will need to perform balancing which will take a little while, not a 5 minute job but should be done anyway.
Once we have that you would like a tech2 astrometrics frigate class, to create this new class of vessel you will need to nerf the current covert ops frigates, you would have no reason for your science vessel if you didn't pidgeon hole the covert ops ships a bit more, given that you need to do this then the devs will need to create and balance the new tech2 frigates then modify and rebalance the covert ops frigates. Which I am afraid to say isn't going to be a 5 minute job either. Not to forget that the players who currently use covert ops frigates wouldn't be too pleased.
Realistically with the amount of work required and the already existing covert ops frigates the neiche you are looking for would almost certainly be better put into a cruiser sized vessel. The time for development would probably be about the same amount and it would give a meaningful ship type to the world of eve. Remember there are no cruiser sized astrometrics vessels, all other ideas on speed, reduced damage and the like are still valid.
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Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.02.03 11:12:00 -
[38]
A cruiser simply doesn't have the agility for it, and it'll be alot more expensive. A Tech 2 cruiser size ship being made by the lottery winners would become expensive if anyone decides to even sniff at them to see if they're any good. A frigate is limited to a reasonable price range. For scanning, which is it's intended purpose, a smaller ship just makes more sense.
Balancing the tech 1 frigate would be negliable, after all there are another 3 already perfectly balanced in that category. Balancing the Tech 2s would take longer, and as for nerfing the CovOps it only requires changing of a bonus to something more specific, nothing else would need to be changed, damage output, tank, speed, cloaking, all remain the same, and their role would be redirected into their intended militaristic function. Balancing the Tech 2s is the only major concern. Balancing a whole new class of cruisers with good tanks (by design) would be alot more of a headache, a cruiser has enough HP to actually be useful as a tank, a frigate doesn't. I think people would jump on this and use them for other things, which they shouldn't.
As I said before, you can always make your own thread for your ship. I'm still sticking to my lasers. ---------------------------------------- Proposed new ship class |
ChaosDemon
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Posted - 2007.02.03 19:15:00 -
[39]
Wel for a ship like that it will have to be fast so i gues that a ship like the Executioner would be the platform. It will be great if the ship got some speed and cloack bonuses and maybe scan probe bonus. The new class would be great to have increased powergrid and CPU (bigger than the Executioners). For some time i was thinking of putting a cloack a afterburner some exploration modules on it but the powergrid and CPU are too small. It would be great to have a new ship.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.02.04 02:17:00 -
[40]
Quote:
As I said before, you can always make your own thread for your ship. I'm still sticking to my lasers.
Ah well in that case we may aswell of made the thread locked before anyone had time to comment as your opening must be the be all and end all with no need for a comment or discussion!
You do realise that the devs even commented people make a thread and reply to everything till they get the proverbial pat on the back, the devs even said they usually ignore most of those threads as they were pointless. Food for thought maybe. And nope aint making a thread for a cruiser sized astrometrics ship as I have made the point in this thread and I doubt the devs would read mine any more than yours. lol.
Think of it this way if the devs were to make a new set of ships, the votes would be far more in favor of a new destroyer for each race. Sad but true.
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Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.02.04 21:28:00 -
[41]
Don't get affronted by what I said. The fact is you're lobbying for a different ship, in a thread setup by someone else, who initally had support for that specific idea. No-one else has agreed with you on cruiser sized ships yet, and yet you persist in arguing the advantages, I am not against your idea, but I would like to keep my thread on-topic, meaning related to the frigate sized ships based on existing models, not to entirely newly constructed cruiser class ships.
As for the comment about this thread not being read, there's really no need to get bitter about this, I am perfectly entitled to act as I have, you shouldn't be offended. ---------------------------------------- Proposed new ship class |
Nian Banks
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.02.05 00:42:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Nian Banks on 05/02/2007 00:42:24 Heres the thing tho, it needs increased cpu & pg, it needs increased armor and or shield, increased cargo bay, increased capacitor output, and yes its got to be fast, but then if a ships got no offensive capability making something larger than a frigate fast and agile isn't a problem, so heres the last crunch... with all that added your going to wind up with either a way overpowered frigate or a normal cruiser (lol), now next point is its got to fill a need and purpose and preferable a unique one. With Covert Ops your purpose for frigate size goes away with the faries, sure you can do a bit of your bonus jiggery-pokery but is unlikely that the idea would ever see the light of day. Realy the only reason you have thats valid and also not overly popular in the capita head is the role play concept, I doubt thats enough of a reason. Now as for amarr needing a tech1 astrometrics frig, yes thats fair and should be done almost immediately, what a woeful oversight. I feal for the amarr...
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Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.02.05 10:35:00 -
[43]
Once again you've ignored the main point I suggested this. There are ALREADY 3 models waiting to be used in tech 2 varients, they currently have no variations. Creating 4 new cruiser models will take alot more time than creating one frigate and reskinning 3 existing ships.
That is why I suggested this whole thing in the first place, it's a convinient solution. As for your point about it needing increased fittings and armour, why would it? You need enough fittings to fit a probe launcher and additional modules, little or no weaponry, so that's a huge amount of fitting stats you don't need to have, and as for the armour, I said viable defensively against a single attacker, that means somewhere around an assault frig's amount of HP, if he gets caught in the whole place, he'll go pop very quickly. This is not an idea to remove the risk from low sec by flying one of these, there's got to be an element of danger, and please, don't state that role-playing is ignorable just because it's not that popular. ---------------------------------------- Proposed new ship class |
CocoaJin
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Posted - 2007.02.05 11:03:00 -
[44]
Edited by: CocoaJin on 05/02/2007 11:01:14 double post
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CocoaJin
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Posted - 2007.02.05 11:04:00 -
[45]
My preference would be a barge type research vessel. New hull of course, but relativly clean, simple and utlitarian in shape. Caldari freighter looking...hmm actually any of other freighters in shape and styling really
My other desire would be a ship that was brightly lit and almost spotlessly clean. Something inviting, in no way hostile looking. Federation, StarFleet looking, not Klingon-ish.
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Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:49:00 -
[46]
RE: CocoaJin
Must I repeat myself? Please read the whole thread. Your opinion is yours and yours only, I will not attempt to discredit it. However I did just explain at length why I think that the ship proposed should be constructed with the hull types I've already mentioned, my reasoning is already laid out, and I'd care for you to read and counter this point before putting your suggestion forward in future. ---------------------------------------- Proposed new ship class |
Sarinat Talen
Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:48:00 -
[47]
I am with the op 100% on this. Absolutely not a destroyer hull though. I like the aforementioned Idea of something like an ORE ship. Perhaps another corp would like to make an industrial entry on the market. Right now ORE ships fall under Gallente starship engineering for R&D purposes, so how about a corp from another empire to balance the scales a bit? That would require a whole new hull and not use existing frigates, but would allow for a T1 and T2 variant. ISIN is Recruiting http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=343962 |
Erim Solfara
Amarr Tarlos INC
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:59:00 -
[48]
It's nice to see some support for the ship class, I would argue a point though.
I'm all up for a salvaging ship being produced by an ORE-like company, but I still think a tech 2 exploration ship would be best made from the existing hulls, simply because of the amount of time it would take to create.
It is after all the devs decision if this went forward (unlikely?), but I still feel those hulls are not used to their fullest.
New ship class |
Pierre Jacquemein
A Place for Valen
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Posted - 2007.02.15 05:19:00 -
[49]
I like the OP's idea. It would be nice to see a new T2 non-combat ship. So much focus is on combat that a lot of people forget about EVE's industrialists. CCP is really trying to expand non-combat options in EVE with exploration, salvaging, and invention. Besides new ships, those 3 things are the biggest changes that Revelations brought. The inclusion of new T2 exploration and salvaging frigates would really draw more attention to these areas. There are other changes which must take place as well, because from what I hear on the forums and in-game, invention and exploration really aren't worth the trouble, but that's another issue and one that I am only vaguely familiar with.
New T2 science vessels ftw. I'd like to see it happen, and it really wouldn't be hard to balance at all.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.15 09:57:00 -
[50]
First, I havn't read all the posts.
I would like to see a carrier classe ship capable of also building ships (max cruiser size T1, or perhaps a BC). Kinda like a mobile factory, completely defenceless.
Good for small corps that want to travel 0.0 under the nose of the big alliances
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Erim Solfara
Amarr Tarlos INC
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:06:00 -
[51]
RE: Pierre
I'm glad you agree with me, it's nice to see some more support for something I think that would improve the game vastly for alot of players.
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes First, I havn't read all the posts.
It's apparent.
New ship class |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel Legiones Astartes
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Posted - 2007.02.18 00:47:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Nian Banks How about a new ship class based off an industrial hull thats a true "startrek" science vessel, as in you can perform research on it in deep space (<0.4). Allow this vessel to research time efficiency, material research and blueprint copying. Give it the same set effieciency as a player owned pos and allow it to only research one thing at a time, perhaps having it take 50% longer to research but give a ship bonus that at level 5 gives you 100% research speed.
HAve you any idea what that would do to the ships price? Mat eff slots are so rare you would probably exppect to pay up to 150mill+ for this ship described, plus CCP just would not impliment the mat eff ability,
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Erim Solfara
Amarr Tarlos INC
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Posted - 2007.02.18 11:08:00 -
[53]
Mat eff?
New ship class |
Bi Tor
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:52:00 -
[54]
Erim,
I like about half of your idea. The frigate sized survey vessel is a fantastic idea. This ship needs to be fast and have just enough capability to avoid combat or disengage. Also just enough to do it's duties as a surveyer.
I disagree with your point about the need to use a currently active frigate as the prototype. I believe that it should be part of a new catagory of ship, the civilian/research hulls. These ships need to be disasociated from the combatants, they are specifically engineered non-combatant ships. This would not remove all self defense capabilities, just resrict them. I interperet your basis for this choice souly upon the need to make the intergration faster. It will only eliminate some of the concept design portion. They will still need new textures, new color maps and posibly some need to add to or remove part of the exsisting 3d models. For about the same effort you can create a new concept and implement it.
I believe a well developed civilian ship catagory could be started with:
- A frigate or destroyer sized survey ship - this ship needs to be fast and cover alot of territory to properly do it's job.
- A cruiser or battle cruiser sized investigation ship - this ship needs to be able to salavage, hack and analyze. Combat capabilities need to be limited to just enough to survive these missions.
- A battleship or capital ship sized research and development ship - this ship should be capable of doing a very high threat investigation mission but should also be able to replace it's weapons systems with research or manufacturing modules. These would be used as resricted capability POS's and to give those Mobile Labs a little mobility.
In summary, I believe that these ships need to be structured in such a way as to make them undesireable by the combatants. That can be done by limiting total offensive ability and/or by removing combat endurance in favour of speed.
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Erim Solfara
Amarr Tarlos INC
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Posted - 2007.02.28 12:57:00 -
[55]
Very much an extrapolation of what I'd like to see, you are right I was only suggesting that the current frigates be used because it would make the whole process alot easier on development time.
I do very much like your idea and I'd sign it, if the developers decide that it's worth the extra development time.
and thank you for reading the thread properly before commenting
New ship class |
Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.28 15:24:00 -
[56]
I'd like to see this happen but as someone has already pointed out, non PVP items/ships are rare and tend to get left behind on updates etc which is robably why ships of the class the OP proposes have not been introduced already.
There are the non-combatants among us that often get labelled as carebears and I find the label offensive. Many like me would enjoy PVP if our RL skills, (as opposed to skills that we train in Eve), were better. Going up against NPC rats etc is similar to any game since the AI is prone to limitations due to computer architecture. The good guy always wins unless they do something totally stupid. We tend to go for non combat professions like mining etc for that reason and not because we don't like PVP. Like everything, there are those with a flair for it and others who just can't grasp it no matter what but I am going a bit off topic here.
The survey/exploration/science vessel is a great way to get non combatants into the more dangerous regions at a reduced risk. The small cargo hold in a frigate means the rewards won't be as great either. I don't agree with an Indy for this purpose since the chance of picking up a lot of valuable items is too great and thus the risk/reward ratio would be unbalanced. If you find something big and valuable there needs to be a bigger risk in having to come back for it in a ship with a bigger hold like a Transport ship.
I also agree with not recycling hulls. Variety makes the game more interesting and spotting a ship at a distance shouldn't need for you to look up what it is in the info, it should be identifiable by the shape. --
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Erim Solfara
Amarr Tarlos INC
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Posted - 2007.02.28 18:33:00 -
[57]
At last, some supportive comments that don't actively try to hijack the thread!
Thank you Drizit, very much along the same lines as myself and the previous poster. It would certainly be nice to see CCP take an interest in this kind of thing once they're done with Kali 3, I still believe civilian life and the consistency of the game needs to be looked at, not least for role-players.
Let's hope more people have a look at the thread hmm?
New ship class |
Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.02 02:16:00 -
[58]
Mat eff = material efficiency. The problem that most of us manufacturers come across is not being able to research mat eff on our BPO's due to the limited number of slots in highsec. However, with more means to get in to lowsec, maybe many like me are venturing there to do our research.
I really think a research ship should be space research rather than BP research though. Having the ability to do reseach on BP's in a ship would mean practically every player who currently produces BPC's having several of these ships, sitting in space, piloted by an alt, doing nothing but research on BPO's and creating major lag.
Space research could be searching for anomalies such as hidden gas clouds, hidden DS complexes and various other one-shot easter eggs that CCP could hide around the Eve universe. Once the easter egg is used, they could disappear and respawn somewhere else creating continual employment for civilian research vessels.
--
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Erim Solfara
Amarr Tarlos INC
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Posted - 2007.03.02 11:06:00 -
[59]
A couple of nice ideas.
and to add to the point about increased low sec traffic; it's a ship like this that would enable people to use low sec more freely in order to get to the station's research slots isn't it?
New ship class |
Laramon Questor
Minmatar Knights of the Silver Dawn
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Posted - 2007.03.30 14:44:00 -
[60]
I have no issues with the reusing hulls. Just the thought of using the Minmatar's Probe as the base for a T2 Frigate sparks my fancy. I can even envision an Amarr Tormentor as the equivalent.
All it takes is a reskinning, with a couple additions of simple parts. For all intents and purposes, the Probe comes with pretty much all the frills it needs. Just add a custom antenna or a satellite dish on top and you're good!
Even after failure, there can be redemption.
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