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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Alastorr Frost
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated
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Posted - 2006.11.27 05:11:00 -
[31]
Just want to add my 2 isk to this...
First: Well done CCP! I really like the changes thats coming and improving the NPE is a bonus (Can anyone say "MORE TARGETS")
Secondly: What a nice, long and informative blog. I think ALL blogs from now on should be written like this one.
IMHO, this upgrade is going to ROCK! I might just have to get me an extra account...
Regards,
Frosty
Thanks to MAXSuicide for this nice Sig |
mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.11.27 05:38:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Skellibjalla we must not let the abusers hold back our improvements to the game, or dictate our direction. That would be the ultimate abuse.
thats so right on so many levels even totally beyond character creation.
excellent blog, i enjoyed it immensely.
1000% awesome guide to logging out |
Sha'Uri Dark
Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.27 06:21:00 -
[33]
Wow what a great blog. If this amount of information and in depthness was in every blog I think there'd be a lot less whining on the forums. Possibly because all the kids would have fallen asleep 1/4 of the way through but, meh it's passed their bedtime anyway. ------------------------------------------------- As a Freelancer the thoughts and opinions contained within this post are my own. Don't like them feel free not to complain to me about them. |
Charon Gonzales
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Posted - 2006.11.27 07:14:00 -
[34]
skills and sp amount arent the only problem. How many of us have made a wrong choice of attributes due to our experience with other RPG's and then after a long while cursed it to ground ?
i hope new system points out the priority of attribute focus, cause without deep knowlage of EvE no noob knows it and in end he, like many of us, may curse the day he made those choces.
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Dao 2
Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.27 07:19:00 -
[35]
**** that is long stuff ;p
i think every char under 810k sp should have 800k sp added to them, nust just until 800k but whatever they have +800k ;p
gives them something since theyve been playing ><
and anyone under 1.6mil gets auto boosted to 1.6 mil ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
Rillian
Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:12:00 -
[36]
WOW thats a blog and ahalf
cheers CCP
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Lady Zirconia
Caldari M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:12:00 -
[37]
Well,
Firstly, I think the NPE looks great. I know how confusing it was for me when I first joined, so I applaud the changes to the process - the transparency of choices as well as the evening-out in SPs so that everyone gets more-or-less the same. The unfairness of SPs at character creation was as matter of fact something I realized was happening and was quite upset about at the time, so I am happy its finally being fixed.
(Now the rant.)
However, the idea of choosing 800k as the level of standardization I totally totally oppose! And your rationalization for giving new players 1 or 2 level 5 skills is weak to the extreme. You try to justify it with the explanation for universities and teaching specialization, but last I checked universities do not pump out graduates at the peak of their careers with nothing more to learn from the real world in a particular skill.
When I joined there was actually some mystique to level 5 skills - because you had none. Now, think of the psychology of lvl 5 to the new player - it will be nothing special because they will have started with 2 already. You'll be instilling that jaded view of lvl 5's which veterans have, in the new player base. Why on earth would you willing do that?
You also claim to trying to create a level player field and you aspire to fairness. However, by setting the limit of 800k and creating unappreciative new players, you now have to "compensate" a group of players for past wrongs - but what you dont realize that you arent helping anyone really, you are just creating new victims. The poor sods who have just hit their first million SP (for most new players this used to be an important milestone) or have 850k SP will be the victims of this "compensation". What about the older players who _were_ victims of the previous unfair system, only to be made victims of the new unfair system. 800k is not a small number of SP considering it encompasses 2 lvl 5 skills.
Do what you want, justify it how you want - but the 800k limit only helps a select number of players picked rather arbitrarily, it doesnt uphold any ideals of fairness and I believe it will actually change the psychology of the new player....for the worse.
Sorry, for the rant, but I happen to feel very strongly about it and couldnt keep my much shut even though I seem to be the only one on this thread who doesnt think the new system doesnt have its flaws. And moreover considering its the day before the publish, I have no illusions that this is the way it will be regardless.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:30:00 -
[38]
That was a very good blog. Informative, well-constructed and comprehensive. If only NPE was on this level when I started. ---
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:51:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 08:55:23 I believe that to be the longest blog in the history of ccp.
It was very good. Lots of good and detailed information! And good move on compensating people with less than 800k skillpoints, you probably are right about them getting a bit angry otherwise. :)
Originally by: Lady Zirconia
Sorry for the rant, but I happen to feel very strongly about it and couldnt keep my much shut even though I seem to be the only one on this thread who doesnt think the new system doesnt have its flaws. And moreover considering its the day before the publish, I have no illusions that this is the way it will be regardless.
I can understand you think its unfair compared to how it used to be, and now newbies will have some level 5 skills. I dont think its the end of the world. I have probably 40 level 5 skills now... so what if a newbie gets 1 or 2? :) --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Lady Zirconia
Caldari M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:06:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 08:55:23 I can understand you think its unfair compared to how it used to be, and now newbies will have some level 5 skills. I dont think its the end of the world. I have probably 40 level 5 skills now... so what if a newbie gets 1 or 2? :)
And that is exactly the type of jadedness which happens to old players. Its not a criticism, I am the same. However, just because us old-timers see level 5 skills like that, doesnt mean new players should be punished or deprived of that first magical moment when you run to your friends and brag about your level 5 Gunnery or whatever.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:12:00 -
[41]
Thank you for the excellent blog, Skellibjalla.
At first glance into the revamped char creation on SiSi, I'd say that you really reached what you guys and girls aimed for. Yes, I still remember the talk at the Fanfest '04.
Two thumbs up!
That I don't like the ready to farm trial alts is another topic you touched in the blog too. And it is my personal opinion. To bad you had to remove the first 20 'Wow, look what I achieved!' points in a pilot's career. *eg*
You dropped a huge ball into the storyline/background team's yard. Now let's see how that (currently lifeless) part of EVE develops. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
ZoRzEr
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:21:00 -
[42]
Looking good.
Yarrbbq, Yarrdware and Yarrsters ZoRzEr |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:37:00 -
[43]
I approve of these changes.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:42:00 -
[44]
That's a tremendous blog, very well written and it is a real joy to get more of an insight into the background of why something has been developed alongside how something has been developed.
Clearly an enormous amount of work has gone into setting up the new character creation system and having tested it on Sisi I can say that it works well and is certainly an improvement over the old system.
Good job, well done!
Blog
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:55:00 -
[45]
That blog itself was a work of art.
I started reading it, found it interesting enough to read it some more in spite of finding the scrollbar only a third down, realized somewhere between 4.1.4 and 4.1.5 that this was a cleverly disguised TECHNICAL PRESENTATION (wow you're good with words) and in 5. you explain just how you made that possible by reversing its order.
Hope you're not too mad if I try to borrow that trick for business purposes if I can. Very clever.
Additionally, I'd like to say that it made me want to create a new character, and research just exactly how bad my own initial choices were --
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Adam C
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:14:00 -
[46]
this seems to me as a alternative to skill queing* ? for new charactors that is
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:37:00 -
[47]
Excellent blog. FireFoxx80 gives his stamp of approval.
Good to see you've not screwed over us old timers; or equally those who create a character today only to find it's outdated tomorrow (though you might need to explain to them where the 730,000 skillpoints came from).
A nice and long, and well thought out blog
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
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Skellibjalla
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:40:00 -
[48]
Thank you all.
I am thrilled over your responses and that you all seem to find answers to your questions. And of course that you appreciate the sneak peek into the design process. We are pretty serious about this and it can become pretty agonizing.
One thing I want to note specifically: Thanks to everyone that tested and provided feedback on the test server. It was crucial in helping us to decide how to fairly implement the Revelations skill point compensation. Props to Oveur for holding his finger on the pulse there. We more or less implemented exactly what a part of the community suggested and simply adjusted it to fit the background of the characters. The community is really the entity most suited to judge what is fair for its members and all we had to do was to react quickly once we decided to run with it.
We only just finished programming the procedure for this yesterday (for real) at the same time that I finished the blog - It will take over 9 hours to run!
PS. Good idea Joerd Toastius, a family background template - I like!
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Adam Reed
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:43:00 -
[49]
Blimey, you don't often get a change this big that doesn't prompt at least a few moans and rants. I guess you must have got it right CCP, good work. -------------
"I don't mean to sound cruel or harsh, but I am, so that's how it comes out." |
Ysolde Xen
Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:45:00 -
[50]
/me appaluds one of the best Devblogs ever.
-----
It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong. |
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Hurf Durf
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:58:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Hurf Durf on 27/11/2006 10:58:37 Stuff like this is why I'm resubbing. Thanks a ton. :)
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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:04:00 -
[52]
ôôCharacters get skills that strictly originate from their cultural background û Amarr and Gallente are armor oriented, Caldari and Minmatar shield oriented, etc. û Any cross-cultural overlap is as EVE design dictates.ö
Err Gallante have had passive shields in there cultural for over 3 years now its even in the news. I thought Eve was all about players making the story and cultural background.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Taralesk Inshani Edit: IBDS
Yeah it is pretty **** awesome.
I like it!
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:22:00 -
[54]
Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 27/11/2006 11:23:30
Longest. Blog. Ever.
Now we see why the tutorial is so huge.
Seriously though, this is great stuff. I've introduced a lot of people to EVE, and I've had my share of successes and failures at luring people into the game.
Generally, I've only been reasonably successful with people who are patient enough to go through the whole tutorial and deal with a few weeks of training before they really get into things. Some of my more impatient friends seemed to really like the game but didn't have the patience to get through the "training phase", and ended up being distracted by another game before they really got a chance to experience what EVE has to offer.
Very impressive; perhaps with this new system I can give a second go at pulling in some of my more impatient buddies.
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:53:00 -
[55]
Great Blog!
But would have been even better, if it would have been published a bit earlier (or if Kali^^Revelations would be deployed later). Then it would have been easier to really test it.
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Zarch AlDain
The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:53:00 -
[56]
Nice blog. The idea sounds good - It may be too late but I would like to suggest a sliding scale rather than just bumping everyone to 800k though.
i.e. if currentSP < 1.6 mill then targetSP is 800k+currentSP/2
So if you just hit 800k now then you will go to 1.2 mill, if you just hit 1 mill you will go to 1.3, etc.
This way it's less of an abrupt 'chop off' and people who have been playing a week or two and nearly have 800k won't feel so hard done by.
(And no I have no chars anywhere near that level - so I get no benefit either way :( )
Zarch AlDain
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:18:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Noriath Nobody ever even mentions that there is no such thing as freedom or human rights in the Caldari State...
If the test server was working right now I'd quote you the exact passage where it says that in the racial description in step 1.
Originally by: Lady Zirconia giving new players 1 or 2 level 5 skills is weak to the extreme. You try to justify it with the explanation for universities and teaching specialization, but last I checked universities do not pump out graduates at the peak of their careers with nothing more to learn from the real world in a particular skill.
Any GOOD university will ensure that its graduates know everything they will ever need to know about the fundamental theoretical and practical principles of their chosen specialisations. From there they have a good foundation to go on and learn the more advanced and esoteric stuff themselves. This is pretty much exactly mirrored by the revamp - you spec in Mining, so you get Mining V. The school (being one of the 12 best in the entire cluster) teaches you everything about the fundamentals of mining, plus the basics of more advanced stuff that you can learn more about in the field.
Originally by: Pottsey ôôCharacters get skills that strictly originate from their cultural background û Amarr and Gallente are armor oriented, Caldari and Minmatar shield oriented, etc. û Any cross-cultural overlap is as EVE design dictates.ö
Err Gallante have had passive shields in there cultural for over 3 years now its even in the news. I thought Eve was all about players making the story and cultural background.
That's more like the cultural foreground, and in any case it's the Gallente capsuleers' culture, not the background culture of the Gallente race. At a traditional, "universities teaching what they believe to be core principles" level, Gallente = armour tank. It's only once Gallente pilots get exposed to the real world that they find all the snazzy tricks that people like you have dreamed up ;)
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Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:34:00 -
[58]
Quote: Of these 800.000 skill points, 512.000 are derived from two level 5 skills (rank 1) that each character gets as a part of his school’s career specialization.
This seems not to be true in all cases. The combination Caldari - Military - Special Forces has only one lvl5 skill, which is a rank 2 skill (missile bombardement). Amarr-Military-Special Forces has only one rank 1 lvl5-Skill, but 5 rank 2 lvl4 skills.
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Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:37:00 -
[59]
Originally by: aeti not going to be able to clear a charslot before the patch, but one thing:
does your session still timeout if you spend ages tinkering with how your char looks, and then loose all your options + end up rather frustrated :/
Yes, I just had a session timeout on Sisi.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:43:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Helison
Quote: Of these 800.000 skill points, 512.000 are derived from two level 5 skills (rank 1) that each character gets as a part of his schoolÆs career specialization.
This seems not to be true in all cases. The combination Caldari - Military - Special Forces has only one lvl5 skill, which is a rank 2 skill (missile bombardement). Amarr-Military-Special Forces has only one rank 1 lvl5-Skill, but 5 rank 2 lvl4 skills.
Quote: This helped us to come to the conclusion that the right thing to do was to give people one to two level 5 skills (depending on the rank of the skill) and a decent spread of level 4 skills, appropriate to the specialization that the player chooses. This background element played a huge part in this decision û Schools are only believable when they teach something of significance, and now ours do.
:)
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