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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:31:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Mistress Suffering Actually the D2 people are saying you specifically used a GM to gain tactical advantage under false pretense.
We basically figure the GM in question was a FE alt.
There were no lag issues involved. The only reason those cans were relevent in any way is that they were making it hard for your snipers to operate.
wow its not often i get called a GM alt. there was huge lag issues involved, geminate isnt the most lagfree place to start with and those cans you spammed had no effect on sniping at all apart from creating alot of lag wich isnt allowed. and as i said earlier i was the snipe bookmark in my covert ops so you dropping cans would not affect our ability to stay at sniping range.
the problem is that you artificially created lag with objects that is not ment to be used as anything but storage/loot containers to gain a tactical advantage, i.e lagging them out enough so you could kill them.
if you cannot use legitimate tactics to shoot at people then maybe you should quit the game if you cannot follow the rules. and if you cannot follow the rules im sure there will be some GM that in the end will remove your access to the game due to many voilations of the EULA.
play hard but within the rules, dont try and cheat as it will always come slap you in the back of the head.
btw, have you managed to count the cans on that pic yet? im pretty sure its more then 6.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Imation Sturm
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:32:00 -
[32]
LoL, 15 cans causes 20secs of lag? Are you on a 56k or just d/l **** while on EVE?
What belt doesn't have 15+ cans in it?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:33:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Imation Sturm LoL, 15 cans causes 20secs of lag? Are you on a 56k or just d/l **** while on EVE?
What belt doesn't have 15+ cans in it?
geminate isnt very known for its lagfree enviroment to start with. and when someone does something like this it really lags.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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So'Kar
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:14:00 -
[34]
This could be easily settled once kali hits and cloaked ships can be probed out.
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Naal Morno
ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:21:00 -
[35]
I consider this conversation a moot point since in Kali you won't be able to de facto exploit BM system to gain unfair tactical advantage (and push it further by petitioning people trying to catch you using valid game mechanics) like you did there.
You had no gut to show up again after the first sniper run, where you failed to pop a single ship of ours with three sniping BS of yours.
Apparently, where skills lack you are resorting to pitiful tactics of petitioning since we don't let you play the way you want
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Once I thought T2 BPO Lottery is a problem... Then I've become a part of problem and I relized that previously I was just plain jealous. |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:35:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Naal Morno I consider this conversation a moot point since in Kali you won't be able to de facto exploit BM system to gain unfair tactical advantage (and push it further by petitioning people trying to catch you using valid game mechanics) like you did there.
You had no gut to show up again after the first sniper run, where you failed to pop a single ship of ours with three sniping BS of yours.
Apparently, where skills lack you are resorting to pitiful tactics of petitioning since we don't let you play the way you want
i still dont see how you can say that we were "de facto exploit BM system to gain unfair tactical advantage" ? you had the ability to make bookmarks, you had the ability to place ships around the gate and warp to gang members, you had the ability to use cloaked ships. yet you resorted to lagging down the gate even though you had not so far from 10-1 odds already in manpower in system.
the reason we didnt warp in the second time was that you started to drop alot of cans and it was lagging like mad because of it, not because you in any way shape or form can be considered good at what you do or that we in any way remotely was afraid of you. i think we have proven our resolve to continue to kill E-U alliance and its allies in their home systems. if you just look at the first week alone that we were there we killed more ships in BWF that week alone then what the whole E-U alliance did in a whole month all over eve.
if you cant handle "proper" "inside the rules" tactics without resorting to exploiting who is the pitiful one?
checked the image again... yep its still more then 6cans. have you counted them yet?
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: So'Kar This could be easily settled once kali hits and cloaked ships can be probed out.
perhaps but that will still not help you as the cloaked ships would not be decloaked and the accuracy on the probing of cloaked ships would not be as accurate as probes are today.
and i think they said the smaller the sig of the ship the harder to probe it when it was cloaked wich would make covert ops frigates very hard to find.
and the other ships can just keep moving so you will still take large amounts of casualties as you have been doing so far.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:46:00 -
[38]
Is it legal to have a cargohold full of cans to lag out the campers that shoot you down?
Passive resistance if you will.
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Oceana Multiple sniper spots = multiple marker spots to try to catch you. If you don't want so many cans, don't make so many sniper spots?
covert ops ship is a great snipespot. dont need so many bookmarks when you got them.
i have infinte amount of snipespots in a covert ops. ill see you when you make infinite amount of cans around the gates and then we wont see you in eve at all anymore.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 21:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Wendat Huron Is it legal to have a cargohold full of cans to lag out the campers that shoot you down?
Passive resistance if you will.
there has been a couple of astral wolves and E-U alliance that has done that also. and you also have the highest amount of "ctrl+q" clicks in eve amongst them also.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Ender Hawks
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 23:25:00 -
[41]
F-E guys, it doesnt matter, the Gm has made it clear that using containers to gain tactical advantage is an exploit, period. D2 can argue all they want but we should refrain from this thread as the question has been answered.
I posed a question regarding the use of bm's as snipe spots and if I dont receive a response then I will assume it is not an exploit.
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Metlec
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Posted - 2006.11.14 00:01:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Metlec on 14/11/2006 00:07:16
Originally by: GM Eldini Cans are for storeage. They are not to be used for anything tactical.
This does not mean that you can eject 20 cans at a gate if they contain some ammo.
Originally, Cans were not designed to be mined into. This is now a common a usage. Would you consider that an exploit also? If you don't want people to use them as markers, disable the ability to warp to them.
20 Cans is definately excessive. But 1 in each direction to cover is gate (6) is normally what people aim for.
F-E, how many times do the D2 guys need to say it. They werent being used to generate lag.
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Cosmic Flame
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Posted - 2006.11.14 00:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ender Hawks F-E guys, it doesnt matter, the Gm has made it clear that using containers to gain tactical advantage is an exploit, period. D2 can argue all they want but we should refrain from this thread as the question has been answered.
I posed a question regarding the use of bm's as snipe spots and if I dont receive a response then I will assume it is not an exploit.
1. Which GM specifically said you couldn't use cans as a tactical means to warp to? All i saw was an ISD guy saying that you couldn't use them to provoke lag. Not being able to use them to provoke lag is more specific and a whole different thing than not being able to use them as a tactical advantage as a means to warp to. 2 different things, not the same.
2. GM's don't discuss exploits afaik. He may or may not answer. Doesn't mean using bookmarks as sniper spots is or isn't an exploit. Using such bookmarks is not more or less an exploit than using some cans to counter those tactics as warp in spots afaik. |
Siakel
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Posted - 2006.11.14 00:37:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Siakel on 14/11/2006 00:38:09
Originally by: Cosmic Flame
Originally by: Ender Hawks F-E guys, it doesnt matter, the Gm has made it clear that using containers to gain tactical advantage is an exploit, period. D2 can argue all they want but we should refrain from this thread as the question has been answered.
I posed a question regarding the use of bm's as snipe spots and if I dont receive a response then I will assume it is not an exploit.
1. Which GM specifically said you couldn't use cans as a tactical means to warp to? All i saw was an ISD guy saying that you couldn't use them to provoke lag. Not being able to use them to provoke lag is more specific and a whole different thing than not being able to use them as a tactical advantage as a means to warp to. 2 different things, not the same.
2. GM's don't discuss exploits afaik. He may or may not answer. Doesn't mean using bookmarks as sniper spots is or isn't an exploit. Using such bookmarks is not more or less an exploit than using some cans to counter those tactics as warp in spots afaik.
Read the thread? Or perhaps even the quote in the post above yours?
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Cosmic Flame
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Posted - 2006.11.14 01:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Siakel Edited by: Siakel on 14/11/2006 00:38:09
Originally by: Cosmic Flame
Originally by: Ender Hawks F-E guys, it doesnt matter, the Gm has made it clear that using containers to gain tactical advantage is an exploit, period. D2 can argue all they want but we should refrain from this thread as the question has been answered.
I posed a question regarding the use of bm's as snipe spots and if I dont receive a response then I will assume it is not an exploit.
1. Which GM specifically said you couldn't use cans as a tactical means to warp to? All i saw was an ISD guy saying that you couldn't use them to provoke lag. Not being able to use them to provoke lag is more specific and a whole different thing than not being able to use them as a tactical advantage as a means to warp to. 2 different things, not the same.
2. GM's don't discuss exploits afaik. He may or may not answer. Doesn't mean using bookmarks as sniper spots is or isn't an exploit. Using such bookmarks is not more or less an exploit than using some cans to counter those tactics as warp in spots afaik.
Read the thread? Or perhaps even the quote in the post above yours?
Thank you, i missed the GM post which is why i asked.
Still, as the post above me states, it's also true that jet cans werent meant to be mined in to and its a common practice for years now. Is that an exploit then? Bookmarks were not intended to be used as "instas" and are a common practice for years now. Exploit?
I've found that up to 10 cans there isn't a significant increase in the lag. For cans to actually lag you out for 1s or 2s there has to be at least some 20 cans or so (which i don't know if it was the case). The presence of just 5 player ships induces more lag than 7-10 cans afaik.
To me it seems as there is some bitterness in the OP's thread. Something didn't go according to plan perhaps? |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.14 02:18:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cosmic Flame To me it seems as there is some bitterness in the OP's thread. Something didn't go according to plan perhaps?[/quote
nope its business as usual killing E-R and friends on a daily basis.
as the thread has had its answer and discussion the mods can close it now.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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DrSIn
Amarr In The Face Productions
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Posted - 2006.11.14 02:33:00 -
[47]
lol to this. go grow up
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Skidd Chung
Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.14 03:39:00 -
[48]
Originally by: GM Eldini Cans are for storeage. They are not to be used for anything tactical.
This does not mean that you can eject 20 cans at a gate if they contain some ammo.
First of all, please ignore my affiliation as it should not have any bias to what I'm about to say. My post is at the GM whom I quoted and to all GM and CCP staff in general who are in charge/concerned with gameplay elements of EVE.
To be honest I find the words of the GM I quoted disturbing. Which is to specifically identify an object and it's intended use. And no other uses for it other than it's intended use or it would be considered an exploit. Why I found it disturbing was that it limits creativity in gameplay. Let me explain.
A cargo container jettisoned into space is an object in space which can be interacted with. Specifically saying the use of such a feature was only to store objects and no other use is in my honest opinion cramping our style.
An interactable item such as in this case a container with creativity can be used for other things. First thing I can think of was 'can art'. Not exactly encouraged but because it can be done, it was done. It was not game breaking, a little messy and might cause 'unintentional' lag, but overall, not game breaking and pleasing. The container is now a piece of 'art'.
In the case of using it to 'mark' an area so it was warpable. The intent was not to create lag. If they wanted to create lag, they would just drop cans near their gates and not at the suspected sniping spot. This improvisation is used on a lot of other combat tactics. They improvised the casual container to some sort of beacon for their ships to go to.
Another one I can think of was to place a can right at the edge of a bubble to de-cloak cloakers warping in, where by it exposes the cloaker who is 'pulled' in by the bubble. A container now is adapted to be a de-cloaking device.
The best use which I have encoutered was when I was chasing another interceptor in my Crow. I already had him scrambled and was closing in on him at full speed to web him. His speed was just slightly lower than mine and it was a futile attempt by him to run because I was gaining on him 500m/s at a time. When I was about 14km from him, he jettisoned a container and it floats right at me. Needless to say with some luck on his side, my ship 'bumped' off the container and loses speed and he manage to warp away. I was like "What the hell?!!", but then thought that was a really cool tactic afterwards. His improvisation at a time where he used whatever on his ship to help him get away earned my respect. It was the first time I experienced being blocked by a container while in pursuit. And in this case the container became an obstacle in a chase sequence.
I have no idea what other uses a casual container would be used as but with creativity, it can be something we totaly unexpected and unprepared for. But if it enhances gameplay and not destroy it, why not allow it.
If GM's were to specifically said something like, "You can't use cans for anything but storage or you can't use ships for anything but shooting or you can't use webber for anything but webbing.
Ships can be fitted with guns and scramblers, but if the target is 'stabbed' up, pilots started using ships as battering rams to 'bump' their targets from allignment. Creativity leads to improvisation, even without scramblers, a ships with sufficient speed can 'knock' a target off course.
Webber are to slow ships down to a crawl, but if used on a freighter which has an acceleration speed of a snail, suddenly a webber becomes a tool to speed up freighter warping.
There are limitations with what we can already use and do, as long as it's intention is not game breaking, I don't see why creativity should be sacrificed with specific rules.
To say "Cans are for storeage. They are not to be used for anything tactical." is just cramping our style.
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Goodtime Girl
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:40:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Goodtime Girl on 14/11/2006 11:40:57 Using containers for decloaking and blocking ships is g4y, now its officially an exploit, about time CCP.
Now remove the empty cans littered around the systems.
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Alanin
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:59:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Alanin on 14/11/2006 12:02:58 Edited by: Alanin on 14/11/2006 12:00:35 //edit - deleted my own post
cause its better not to comment on such stuff...
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Mort Sinious
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Posted - 2006.11.14 12:33:00 -
[51]
Allways funny how fast people can start a petition when they are at a disadvantage. Arguments get twisted, facts obscured. Sad story and allways the same.
I was there too (this is no alt) and was part of that can tactic. I assure you there never where more than 6 cans used for our snipe spot busting. There may have been loot cans for a while, but we allways tried to pop them asap if not secure.
But a fact many here completely ignore is, that even if it were 10 cans, this still would have NO impact on any lag. If it would, all asteroid bets in empire would cause node crashes and CTDs several times per hour. They don't. So unless you see hundreds of cans at spots irrelevant for tactics, stop arguing that we wanted to lag you. This is nt only untrue, it also is so absurd that there is only one reason for your petition left: You were ****ed off by that camp and wanted to pay us back via petition. So ... grow up.
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Eilene Fernite
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Posted - 2006.11.14 12:48:00 -
[52]
Originally by: GM Eldini Cans are for storeage. They are not to be used for anything tactical.
This does not mean that you can eject 20 cans at a gate if they contain some ammo.
Can you please distribute these words of wisdom to the rest of the GM's? So they can stop telling people 'sorry for your loss, but there is no exploit' the next time someone gets decloaked by a jetcan at the warp in point to a gate and gets promptly ganked.
Thank you.
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larann
Gallente Paralex Research
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Posted - 2006.11.14 16:19:00 -
[53]
I LOL @ f-e
Cramping there style now who went and sat in their safe spot and distrubed the cloaked battleships.
So I guess now people wont be ably to carry multiple small containers in their hold for fear of being killed, then banned for expoiting as the cans jettion.
GG GM's
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hexy
Locus Solus
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Posted - 2006.11.14 16:48:00 -
[54]
I say it was up to the snipers to shoot the cans, target practice 4tw
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Kharak'khan
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.14 16:52:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Kharak''khan on 14/11/2006 16:54:37 Ive seen certain corps anchoring cans at moons to secure them which is not really on stopping people from putting up starbases.
It also seems amazing how many alts come out of the woodwork for this, People know its wrong hence all the reaction.
Please think of the cans feelings it wants to be filled with ore!!
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larann
Gallente Paralex Research
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Posted - 2006.11.14 17:03:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kharak'khan
It also seems amazing how many alts come out of the woodwork for this
post with your main then ffs
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aim9xcite
Gallente The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.11.18 13:01:00 -
[57]
so if you cant jettison cans at a gate to intentionally cause lag what about people who sit at gates with crap loads of drones that do the same thing or outside a station. i lagged out all to crap when i jumped my carrier into a system just outside a station and there were six other carriers there with all their drones out. as many as 13 drones for some depending on skills so i mean if you can lag out with cans you can lag out with drones and its just as equally as annoying.
in fact alot of times you cant even really use drones in combat because it does cause an excess amount of lag for you and your opponents. so what can we do about that? saddest day in EVE by far is when my sec rating went positive..(but not anymore)......*giggles* |
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