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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.12 21:19:00 -
[1]
what is the official CCP response?
is it "legal" for someone to drop around 15cans at a gate wich will lag like mad? or is it considered a exploit?
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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NeoTech
Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.12 21:23:00 -
[2]
Edited by: NeoTech on 12/11/2006 21:23:47
Originally by: Xendie what is the official CCP response?
is it "legal" for someone to drop around 15cans at a gate wich will lag like mad? or is it considered a exploit?
i believe it was legal... since they couldn't prove that they were put there to create lag...
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Ralara
Caldari Reunited O X I D E
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Posted - 2006.11.12 21:24:00 -
[3]
15 cans do not cause lag. Well, not a lot, anyway :)
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Eldo Davip
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.11.12 21:26:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Xendie what is the official CCP response?
is it "legal" for someone to drop around 15cans at a gate wich will lag like mad? or is it considered a exploit?
It is not legal. From the Terms of Service: Originally by: Terms of Service 15 You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
___
Email Us (Report a bad post) | Forum Rules - Read 'em! | Website EvE ONLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER |
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.12 21:27:00 -
[5]
never mind the cans around the gates, look at all the unused cans in belts these days.
Argh, please CCP clean em up before the update, give sixty day warning, cans not in use for previous 30 days will get deleted. That'll clean up the systems no worries.
I don't mind the advert cans as they are the best way and means the local channel is kept clear of spam for the most part. Life is about memories the more the better. Looking for CCP to improve availability of their GTC's, for non card carriers! |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.12 21:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Eldo Davip
Originally by: Xendie what is the official CCP response?
is it "legal" for someone to drop around 15cans at a gate wich will lag like mad? or is it considered a exploit?
It is not legal. From the Terms of Service: Originally by: Terms of Service 15 You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
ty for your response Eldo now we just need to see if the GM's see it that way
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Saint Schala
OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.12 21:30:00 -
[7]
did they drop cans or were they snipeing and are just loot cans? when snipeing its not unusual for this to happen.
and as the gm probably said its illeagal and considered an exploit to deliberatly induce lag. prooving it is another matter though. -----------------------------------------------
23453457 dont ya just hate not knowing the meaning behind a cryptic sig???? 34564556890 |
NeoTech
Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.12 21:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Eldo Davip
Originally by: Xendie what is the official CCP response?
is it "legal" for someone to drop around 15cans at a gate wich will lag like mad? or is it considered a exploit?
It is not legal. From the Terms of Service: Originally by: Terms of Service 15 You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
it might not be legal from the EULA's point of view. But its not possible to prove it, is it? Or how do u enforce it?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.12 21:55:00 -
[9]
Originally by: NeoTech
Originally by: Eldo Davip
Originally by: Xendie what is the official CCP response?
is it "legal" for someone to drop around 15cans at a gate wich will lag like mad? or is it considered a exploit?
It is not legal. From the Terms of Service: Originally by: Terms of Service 15 You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
it might not be legal from the EULA's point of view. But its not possible to prove it, is it? Or how do u enforce it?
when you warp in to the grid you freeze up for 20sec due to the cans placed in the grid. some people call it tactical cans. i personally think that is **BLEEP** because if they wanted tactical they can make bookmarks at tactical locations like everyone else. or they can have 4-5 of the 50ppl in coverts placed at tactical ranges around the gate.
there is no reason for anyone to call it tactical since all it does is create lag and there are other tools available for a more tactical aproach.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Too Kind
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Posted - 2006.11.12 22:08:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Too Kind on 12/11/2006 22:10:53
Originally by: Eldo Davip
Originally by: Xendie what is the official CCP response?
is it "legal" for someone to drop around 15cans at a gate wich will lag like mad? or is it considered a exploit?
It is not legal. From the Terms of Service: Originally by: Terms of Service 15 You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
They were probably not there to create lag, but as jump-in points to get close to incoming snipers. So 'intentionally create lag' doesn't work here. And that's probably, why the GMs decided that it's ok. And 15 cans is quite a lot of cans, but shouldn't create heavy lag by default. Extreme lag = fighting at a pos with maybe like 300 ships/structures/drones/other objects in space. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111 |
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Rei Toai
Faaip De Oiad
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Posted - 2006.11.12 22:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Xendie
when you warp in to the grid you freeze up for 20sec due to the cans placed in the grid.
...
or they can have 4-5 of the 50ppl in coverts placed at tactical ranges around the gate.
where those 50 people also in the grid?? and did you have your overview open when your warped in - maybe with informations like "speed", "transversal", "corp", "alliance" also in your overview??
__________________________________
I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know. |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.12 22:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rei Toai
Originally by: Xendie
when you warp in to the grid you freeze up for 20sec due to the cans placed in the grid.
...
or they can have 4-5 of the 50ppl in coverts placed at tactical ranges around the gate.
where those 50 people also in the grid?? and did you have your overview open when your warped in - maybe with informations like "speed", "transversal", "corp", "alliance" also in your overview??
i warped out and in after the cans were removed and i didnt get a 20sec freeze, maybe a 2-3sec lag the people did create lag but the added cans created silly amounts of lag.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.12 22:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Too Kind Edited by: Too Kind on 12/11/2006 22:10:53
Originally by: Eldo Davip
Originally by: Xendie what is the official CCP response?
is it "legal" for someone to drop around 15cans at a gate wich will lag like mad? or is it considered a exploit?
It is not legal. From the Terms of Service: Originally by: Terms of Service 15 You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
They were probably not there to create lag, but as jump-in points to get close to incoming snipers. So 'intentionally create lag' doesn't work here. And that's probably, why the GMs decided that it's ok. And 15 cans is quite a lot of cans, but shouldn't create heavy lag by default. Extreme lag = fighting at a pos with maybe like 300 ships/structures/drones/other objects in space.
they can place their inty out there or covert ops. dropping a bunch of cans creates lag and everyone knows it. they wanted ppl to lag up for 20sec when they come warping in otherwise they would have used intys stationed out at those spots for others to warp to or coverts. nothing tactical about dropping cans, it just creates a bucketload of lag. and geminate is already the arseend of serverupgrades as in it is enough lag there with just a couple of ppl in the same constellation.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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dj lightning
Caldari Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.12 23:14:00 -
[14]
warp to cans nothing more and it was around 10 cans.
i think u need a hug TBFH
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Recon One
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.12 23:14:00 -
[15]
Xendie you are taking this out of propotion to what was happening.
1st never saw you at the gate during this particluar incident 2nd your petion was from a safe spot where you were scaning the gate we didnt have 15 cans up that is a lie 3rd it show clear favoritism to you and the sniper pirates that were there with the way the cans were removed we didnt put them there for lag reasons we did it to mark your known warp in points 4th secure cans were not ours and were not remove as well as the other cans 5th imho the GM abused his power and granted you favorable tactics by the GM 6th we were not asked what we were doing or wheather we were suffering any lag as well
overall i do not understand why this was done for you it degrades our enjoyment of the game that you have too many sniper bms around the gate for a reasonable peson to mark and or respond to... you are using the bm system as an exploit to make it immpossible to stop or respond to you sniping attacks |
Oceana
Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.12 23:18:00 -
[16]
Multiple sniper spots = multiple marker spots to try to catch you. If you don't want so many cans, don't make so many sniper spots?
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Naal Morno
ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.12 23:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Naal Morno on 12/11/2006 23:20:16 Mr OP.
You are twisting facts and are generally known to have counting deficiences (you counted our numbers wrong, number of cans wrong (even though you claimed to be cloaked near gate) and number oh ships we lost in one of the fights. In all three cases you multiplies real numbers by about 3..... There were up to 6 cans (3-4 not ours, some secure cans dropped by ganked ships) deployed around the gate at about 200km to be able to catch your snipers.
You, like a littly crying baby, run to GMs and petitioned this fact, regardless of the fact that you were yourself using tactical BMs which is a shady practice itself.
Next time we should petition you for intentionally creating lag and sabotaging EVE servers by creating excessive amount of bookmarks around the gat. That practice pretty nicely adheres to EULA violation definition we see in one of the posts above.
Thank you and please stop discussing this subject because it is also against EULA to discuss GM's decisions.
Cheers. _________________________________________
Once I thought T2 BPO Lottery is a problem... Then I've become a part of problem and I relized that previously I was just plain jealous. |
Tonkin
Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.13 00:43:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xendie what is the official CCP response?
is it "legal" for someone to drop around 15cans at a gate wich will lag like mad? or is it considered a exploit?
"You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website."
droping cans at a gate to obstruct people from jumping is a exploit. for example
dropping cans at 15km will bump a cepter or a cloaker so they can be killed.
"CCP MAY FIND IT NECESSARY ON OCCASION TO MAKE CHANGES TO OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF THE PERSISTENT GAME WORLD MECHANICS, INTERFACE OR FEATURES OF EVE ONLINE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN GAME BALANCE AND ENHANCE PLAYABILITY OR PERFORMANCE FOR ITS SUBSCRIBERS. THESE CHANGES MAY AFFECT OR CAUSE SETBACKS FOR THE CHARACTERS YOUÆVE CREATED."
yea ccp have the right to remove the cans from the game but i do not see that cans dropped at 200km will restrict you getting to the gate. 15 cans can cause lag but not alot. ive see snipers warp into gates with fleet battles going on shoot and warp within 30-60 secounds.
seeing that there where 6 cans made by players for warp in points for snipers to catch them, in other words as BECONS to kill the enemy. now this has happend before when i was killing fix about 6 months ago. we dotted cans to catch snipers around the station. fix petitoned complainging that we have cans outside the station. the gm comes in thinkin that we have dropped cans outside the station entrance which is a exploit.
the GM come in looked and said that a few cans at the entrance should not be there, we explained to the gm that the cans there where fix peeps we killed. he examined them and found out that we where telling the truth and said just kill the cans after you have done with them.
he did not care about the cans dotted 250km out in a + formation on both axies. we asked if that was a exploit and he said it wasnt.
now with our forsaken friend here, did not like the fact that his bookmarks where being marked and he could no longer get to shoot the gate camp. fair play i would be annoyed at this but will try a other way to get a kill.
each gm is different but i dont see this as a exploit. yea lag happens part of the game, you could say its a feature now.
but 6 cans man upgrade your computer or isp DUDE
and stop posting with your alts
Sig removed, you sig was too ubber to display and ccp had no choice but to nerf it - CCP(NERFBAT)
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GM Eldini
Minmatar Game Masters
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:45:00 -
[19]
Cans are for storeage. They are not to be used for anything tactical.
This does not mean that you can eject 20 cans at a gate if they contain some ammo.
--------------------- Best regards, GM Eldini EVE Online Customer Support
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Lithalnas
Amarr Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.11.13 03:01:00 -
[20]
after 30 days of inactivity just make them targets for looters. Anyone can shoot at them without getting concorded. Eve can self regulate... sometimes. ------------- Cadet Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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Ender Hawks
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 04:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: GM Eldini Cans are for storeage. They are not to be used for anything tactical.
This does not mean that you can eject 20 cans at a gate if they contain some ammo.
I believe that settles it The cans do create lag although the intention is to mark warp-in points, which can be done with cloakers and/or inty support.
Another question: This is to the Gm's not all the D2 springing to life on this thread.... Is using bm's to warp in to snipe considered an exploit?
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Naal Morno
ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.13 04:10:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Naal Morno on 13/11/2006 04:10:47
Originally by: Ender Hawks
Originally by: GM Eldini Cans are for storeage. They are not to be used for anything tactical.
This does not mean that you can eject 20 cans at a gate if they contain some ammo.
I believe that settles it The cans do create lag although the intention is to mark warp-in points, which can be done with cloakers and/or inty support.
Another question: This is to the Gm's not all the D2 springing to life on this thread.... Is using bm's to warp in to snipe considered an exploit?
No, but having so many excessive BMs in you P&P folder DOES create lag, so looking from our perspective you:
1) Lagged yourself out 2) Lagged us out
Therefore you are violating EULA.
_________________________________________
Once I thought T2 BPO Lottery is a problem... Then I've become a part of problem and I relized that previously I was just plain jealous. |
Valentine Keen
ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.13 06:05:00 -
[23]
Its ok, I forwarded the info I received from the GM who removed the 4 cans we had out there to [email protected], and we will see the response. There were only 4 out there most of the time and he kept removing them, definetely not a case of lag since Jita 4-4 has more than that many cans on an hourly basis.
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 12:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Recon One Xendie you are taking this out of propotion to what was happening.
1st never saw you at the gate during this particluar incident 2nd your petion was from a safe spot where you were scaning the gate we didnt have 15 cans up that is a lie 3rd it show clear favoritism to you and the sniper pirates that were there with the way the cans were removed we didnt put them there for lag reasons we did it to mark your known warp in points 4th secure cans were not ours and were not remove as well as the other cans 5th imho the GM abused his power and granted you favorable tactics by the GM 6th we were not asked what we were doing or wheather we were suffering any lag as well
overall i do not understand why this was done for you it degrades our enjoyment of the game that you have too many sniper bms around the gate for a reasonable peson to mark and or respond to... you are using the bm system as an exploit to make it immpossible to stop or respond to you sniping attacks
1st. i was in a covert ops. 2nd. my petition was not so many k away from you and not from a safespot 3rd. i did warp in and out with and without the cans in the grid, result? 20sec freeze with cans, 3sec without them 4th. i didnt care about the secure cans they were from a hauler that someone blew up and they werent factored in to the equation, your cans created the lag. 5th. as i said earlier, use the tools given to you within the rules to play with. 6th. he dont have to ask you, you were breaking the rules.
and fyi, i was the snipepoint so the cans still didnt do anything but create lag wich you already knew. and i know the exact number of cans you dropped also as i saved a screenie of it.
exploiting bad mmkay. dont cry, just say no to exploiting.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Captain 5h4ggy
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 15:59:00 -
[25]
This seems to have hit a sore spot.... --- Keep ur Friends Close and ur Enemy's Closer
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fugazii
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 17:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Valentine Keen Its ok, I forwarded the info I received from the GM who removed the 4 cans we had out there to [email protected], and we will see the response. There were only 4 out there most of the time and he kept removing them, definetely not a case of lag since Jita 4-4 has more than that many cans on an hourly basis.
hmmm, funny how your own alliance member said there was usually 10, yet your saying 4. which ones the liar? if you guys want your arguement to be taken seriously, try getting your stories straight
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Naal Morno
ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.13 17:17:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Naal Morno on 13/11/2006 17:18:52 I said 6.
Besides, since you are so sensitive to couple of extra objects out at the gate (against what CCP says this game is not playable over dial up matey)...we will just deploy our drones next time (20 ships, 5 drones each, by your counts it should be 300 drones since you can't count), we will see how you like your playability then.
This will be all within allowed game mechanics...
Cheers.
_________________________________________
Once I thought T2 BPO Lottery is a problem... Then I've become a part of problem and I relized that previously I was just plain jealous. |
fugazii
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 18:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Naal Morno Edited by: Naal Morno on 13/11/2006 17:18:52 I said 6.
Besides, since you are so sensitive to couple of extra objects out at the gate (against what CCP says this game is not playable over dial up matey)...we will just deploy our drones next time (20 ships, 5 drones each, by your counts it should be 300 drones since you can't count), we will see how you like your playability then.
This will be all within allowed game mechanics...
Cheers.
i was actualy refering to dj lightning, but i guess now that you also said 6 i guess it 3 differant stories about the same incident,....impressive.
onto the cans vr drones thing. i dont care if you feel the need to have a fleet 4+x's the size of ours deploy drones to create lag, it just goes to show how confident your fleet commander is in the pilots hes with(obviously not very,..wouldnt blame him). if you dont exploit to create lag, go for it. the minute you do exploit tho, is the minute petitions will be sent.
and plz, dont try to insult us by saying we cant count. you Yourself, jst admitted to having a differant count number than 2 other of your pilots there. first rule of flaming, dont flame yourself through hypocrisy.
funny tho, that the 4th largest alliance in game, one whos members have always been upstanding pvp'rs, have to resort to using shady tactics to stop 5 or so guys. lemme guess, youll be running around in ships full of bookmarks, and using log on/off tactics next?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:03:00 -
[29]
so what you D2 people are saying is that i am lying? that there was never more then 6 cans?
well i guess i will have to call that forum propaganda somewhat. in this imagethere is 12 cans + the sec cans that some hauler dropped after being nuked. the sec cans are the one right at the gate btw. i should know i blew the guy up.
not only that, after the GM's were there and removed the cans you managed to set up 7 new ones before they were also removed. who is the one who cannot count now?
before you start arguing make sure you have something on your feet pls.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:19:00 -
[30]
Actually the D2 people are saying you specifically used a GM to gain tactical advantage under false pretense.
We basically figure the GM in question was a FE alt.
There were no lag issues involved. The only reason those cans were relevent in any way is that they were making it hard for your snipers to operate.
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