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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2098
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:08:48 -
[1] - Quote
Fanfest 2015 was awesome and I'll be going to Fanfest 2016 to join the fun. Looking at all the twitch streams I noticed one nice presentation by CCP Rise.
Have a look at these 4 slides from this presentation :
One, two, three and four.
CCP Rise says : People who die play longer (Talking about new players in Eve)
Since Marmites is one of the alliances who probably kills most of the players in high-sec (like RvB, Eve Uni, Forsaken Asylum, etc), should CCP be hiring us ? it will keep more newbro's in the game.
Tora
The Marmite Collective aka CCP's Isk Sink aka CCP Keep Newbro's in Game.
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2213
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:15:28 -
[2] - Quote
It was a good time.
The PvP room needs a re-imagining... The line for Valkyrie was always 2 hours or longer.... A ticket system would be nice. That would make it so you didn't miss half the content to see a ten minute demo.
The presentation on diplomacy given by scion from goonswarm was beyond great... Maybe one of the best public speakers I have seen...
Hopefully I'll be allowed to go next time.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
553
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:41:46 -
[3] - Quote
Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
104
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 19:09:18 -
[4] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers.
Uhh... the study says "in the first 15 days of play." It's not other 15 day olds getting those retention numbers.
I wonder if I'll get a "retention" award... |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2099
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 19:09:54 -
[5] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. What you see is what you get. They made the same wrong assumptions as you did, but were man enough to admit it after proper research.
Wars and Ganking are good for Eve..... Let's buff it and make Eve an even better place. \\//
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Dsparil
Einstein-Rosen Frontier Holdings Hell's Pirates
4
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 19:37:50 -
[6] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. What you see is what you get. They made the same wrong assumptions as you did, but were man enough to admit it after proper research. Wars and Ganking are good for Eve..... Let's buff it and make Eve an even better place. \\ // http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004 - Starts at 3:15
agreed. They new to roll back some of the mechanics in high sec and quit mommy-coddling people. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
553
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:21:37 -
[7] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. What you see is what you get. They made the same wrong assumptions as you did, but were man enough to admit it after proper research. Wars and Ganking are good for Eve..... Let's buff it and make Eve an even better place. \\ // http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004 - Starts at 3:15
getting smashed up by marmite gatecampers who dock up at the first sign of a fair fight is certainly not good for eve. And it seems that the CSM vote tallies confirmed that. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23295
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:28:42 -
[8] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. What you see is what you get. They made the same wrong assumptions as you did, but were man enough to admit it after proper research. Wars and Ganking are good for Eve..... Let's buff it and make Eve an even better place. \\ // http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004 - Starts at 3:15 It doesn't match his own personal misconceptions, therefore it doesn't exist. For someone that claims to be intelligent he doesn't show much evidence of it
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
553
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:33:55 -
[9] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. What you see is what you get. They made the same wrong assumptions as you did, but were man enough to admit it after proper research. Wars and Ganking are good for Eve..... Let's buff it and make Eve an even better place. \\ // http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004 - Starts at 3:15 It doesn't match his own personal misconceptions, therefore it doesn't exist. For someone that claims to be intelligent he doesn't show much evidence of it
Yes Jonah - the fact that some interest pvp combat, with chances for both sides, can be beneficial for new player retention, must imply that marmite curbstomps are good for the game.
Honestly, I preferred you when you engaged in your little profanity laced tirade before going on hiatus....at least that Jonah had comedic value. |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2104
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:40:17 -
[10] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:getting smashed up by marmite gatecampers who dock up at the first sign of a fair fight is certainly not good for eve. And it seems that the CSM vote tallies confirmed that. Your opinion is irrelevant, as its overruled by CCP facts. Deal with it.
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23298
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:50:07 -
[11] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Yes Jonah - the fact that some interest pvp combat, with chances for both sides, can be beneficial for new player retention, Where did I say otherwise?
Quote:must imply that marmite curbstomps are good for the game. You're seeing things that aren't there, I suggest that you pull your head out of your backside. I took Tora's suggestion as some tongue in cheek humour, something you appear to be vastly ignorant of.
Quote:Honestly, I preferred you when you engaged in your little profanity laced tirade before going on hiatus....at least that Jonah had comedic value. I'm not here to entertain you. Everything I said about you before my hiatus remains true, you're an arrogant know-it-all with an overly inflated opinion of yourself, one who is incredibly disconnected from the reality of Eve being a purely PvP orientated environment.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
553
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:51:58 -
[12] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:getting smashed up by marmite gatecampers who dock up at the first sign of a fair fight is certainly not good for eve. And it seems that the CSM vote tallies confirmed that. Your opinion is irrelevant, as its overruled by CCP facts. Deal with it.
Nowhere did CCP convey that one sided Marmite curbstompings are in any way good for the game. All they do is encourage corp dropping and social isolation, and make highsec less fun for everyone. Bravo. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2223
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:52:32 -
[13] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. What you see is what you get. They made the same wrong assumptions as you did, but were man enough to admit it after proper research. Wars and Ganking are good for Eve..... Let's buff it and make Eve an even better place. \\ // http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004 - Starts at 3:15 It doesn't match his own personal misconceptions, therefore it doesn't exist. For someone that claims to be intelligent he doesn't show much evidence of it Yes Jonah - the fact that some interest pvp combat, with chances for both sides, can be beneficial for new player retention, must imply that marmite curbstomps are good for the game. Honestly, I preferred you when you engaged in your little profanity laced tirade before going on hiatus....at least that Jonah had comedic value.
You are joking right? Johnas' posts are some of the most well written on these forums.
And yes, marmite gatrcampers are good for eve.
Allow me to explain before you dismiss this....
For me, there is no fun in the game unless there is risk. Undocking, shooting red crosses, and docking back up really isn't fun. Now, if I need to worry about being squashed by an oppressive, strong, well funded machine... Well it gives me the danger... It gives me the "oh ****" feeling that we all hate to love. It also teaches those that get caught and destroyed his to avoid it in the future... Some even end up joining the ranks....
Just my thoughts. I'm sure you won't agree.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23298
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:58:22 -
[14] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:You are joking right? Johnas' posts are some of the most well written on these forums. Your praise for my forum habits needs to be more effusive if you want paying...
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1157
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:02:08 -
[15] - Quote
I try to avoid feeding the trolls, yet I'd like to state, for the record et all that;
- Marmites don't strive to interact negatively with new players. (You'll have to take my word for it, go figure ) - Marmites in general help and support new players on a regular basis.
- In some threads, Veers says Marmites are ineffective. - In this thread, Veers says Marmites go around and 'curbstomp' people (so ARE in fact effective).
- In this thread, Veers says Facts, numbers and statistics are not relevant. - in this thread, Veers says his truths are the only ones that matter.
To all who can read, my above claims are easily verifiable. Now go and conclude what's obvious.
Thanks.
D.
Creating content since 1976
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2225
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Leto Thule wrote:You are joking right? Johnas' posts are some of the most well written on these forums. Your praise for my forum habits needs to be more effusive if you want paying...
Hah, I am not for sale, good sir. I just call it like I see it. You have a habit of using proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation. Merely one of those traits is troublesome enough for most to achieve.
Obsequiously,
Leto
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
553
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:45:30 -
[17] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I try to avoid feeding the trolls, yet I'd like to state, for the record et all that; - Marmites don't strive to interact negatively with new players. (You'll have to take my word for it, go figure ) - Marmites in general help and support new players on a regular basis. - In some threads, Veers says Marmites are ineffective. - In this thread, Veers says Marmites go around and 'curbstomp' people (so ARE in fact effective). - In this thread, Veers says Facts, numbers and statistics are not relevant. - in this thread, Veers says his truths are the only ones that matter. To all who can read, my above claims are easily verifiable. Now go and conclude what's obvious. Thanks. D. Creating content since 1976
Much like the rest of the griefers, Marmite are effective against new players and pathetic vets. They have no impact on good players like me who just roll corp.
The rest of your post is, well, nonsense. |
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1158
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:52:05 -
[18] - Quote
Only one griefer derailing this thread buddy.
Tora Bushido wrote:Fanfest 2015 was awesome and I'll be going to Fanfest 2016 to join the fun. Looking at all the twitch streams I noticed one nice presentation by CCP Rise. Have a look at these 4 slides from this presentation : One, two, three and four. CCP Rise says : People who die play longer (Talking about new players in Eve) Since Marmites is one of the alliances who probably kills most of the players in high-sec (like RvB, Eve Uni, Forsaken Asylum, etc), should CCP be hiring us ? it will keep more newbro's in the game. Tora The Marmite Collective aka CCP's Isk Sink aka CCP Keep Newbro's in Game.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
553
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Only one griefer derailing this thread buddy. Tora Bushido wrote:Fanfest 2015 was awesome and I'll be going to Fanfest 2016 to join the fun. Looking at all the twitch streams I noticed one nice presentation by CCP Rise. Have a look at these 4 slides from this presentation : One, two, three and four. CCP Rise says : People who die play longer (Talking about new players in Eve) Since Marmites is one of the alliances who probably kills most of the players in high-sec (like RvB, Eve Uni, Forsaken Asylum, etc), should CCP be hiring us ? it will keep more newbro's in the game. Tora The Marmite Collective aka CCP's Isk Sink aka CCP Keep Newbro's in Game.
Ya, asking for evidence that dying to a mamite gatecamp where you are hopelessly outnumbered, outgunned, and outskilled, and have no hope of hurting the other side, actually improves player retention (a direct response to OP), is a derail. Nice catch. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2226
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:00:11 -
[20] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Ya, asking for evidence that dying to a mamite gatecamp where you are hopelessly outnumbered, outgunned, and outskilled, and have no hope of hurting the other side, actually improves player retention (a direct response to OP), is a derail. Nice catch.
Um, I answered.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1160
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:04:44 -
[21] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Ya, asking for evidence that dying to a mamite gatecamp where you are hopelessly outnumbered, outgunned, and outskilled, and have no hope of hurting the other side, actually improves player retention (a direct response to OP), is a derail. Nice catch.
Progress! At least you are admitting you are a griefer (on the forums only... In game you lack the... err... skills for that)
Why would anyone die to anyone in hisec, on a gate? Only when you are playing solo this stuff happens. You know why? EVE >< solo game.
And yes, as confirmed by CCP, players who are engaged in PVP just stay longer than those weird PVE exclusive hermits. If you think being 'outgunned' or 'outskilled' is a barrier (instead of an opportunity) the problem lies solely with you. How grey your world must be.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
255
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:12:33 -
[22] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers.
this, in my experience, I travel eve not staying in 1 place for very long. I see week old players ganking (usually someones alt, but all it states is 15 days old, does that include alts or actual NEW players) and I see brand new guys trying to mine in ventures that get ganked or made fun of because they mined in empire.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1160
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:15:16 -
[23] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. this, in my experience, I travel eve not staying in 1 place for very long. I see week old players ganking (usually someones alt, but all it states is 15 days old, does that include alts or actual NEW players) and I see brand new guys trying to mine in ventures that get ganked or made fun of because they mined in empire.
And yet, messing with (real) new players in the 1.sec systems is (yet another) bannable offense. Your anecdotes are either not true or... anecdotes.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
554
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:40:14 -
[24] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Agondray wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. this, in my experience, I travel eve not staying in 1 place for very long. I see week old players ganking (usually someones alt, but all it states is 15 days old, does that include alts or actual NEW players) and I see brand new guys trying to mine in ventures that get ganked or made fun of because they mined in empire. And yet, messing with (real) new players in the 1.sec systems is (yet another) bannable offense. Your anecdotes are either not true or... anecdotes. Edit: tell you what, prove me with 3 Zkillboard links of what you see so frequently it's scaring you. D.
How about marmite deccing my 1 man corp? Result: drop corp, rinse and repeat. Outcome: Not worth it to be in multiplayer corps and alliances, because you will get wardecced and either disband or get slaughtered. Result: Play solo. Good for the game? Nope. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2228
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:51:27 -
[25] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Danalee wrote:Agondray wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. this, in my experience, I travel eve not staying in 1 place for very long. I see week old players ganking (usually someones alt, but all it states is 15 days old, does that include alts or actual NEW players) and I see brand new guys trying to mine in ventures that get ganked or made fun of because they mined in empire. And yet, messing with (real) new players in the 1.sec systems is (yet another) bannable offense. Your anecdotes are either not true or... anecdotes. Edit: tell you what, prove me with 3 Zkillboard links of what you see so frequently it's scaring you. D. How about marmite deccing my 1 man corp? Result: drop corp, rinse and repeat. Outcome: Not worth it to be in multiplayer corps and alliances, because you will get wardecced and either disband or get slaughtered. Result: Play solo. Good for the game? Nope.
Mouthy and belligerent clowns usually DO receive extra attention from wardec corps. No surprise to anyone who reads your innane ravings.
Anyhow, you never answered MY post as to how marmites camping gates is good for EVE... I'd like to see the response.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
554
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:59:56 -
[26] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:
And yes, marmite gatrcampers are good for eve.
Allow me to explain before you dismiss this....
For me, there is no fun in the game unless there is risk. Undocking, shooting red crosses, and docking back up really isn't fun. Now, if I need to worry about being squashed by an oppressive, strong, well funded machine... Well it gives me the danger... It gives me the "oh ****" feeling that we all hate to love. It also teaches those that get caught and destroyed how to avoid it in the future... Some even end up joining the ranks....
Just my thoughts. I'm sure you won't agree.
Edit: stupid phone autocorrect
That you don't find PvE fun is certainly your prerogative. And certainly you can get your thrill about being prey to a predator by going to low/null. There are many, like me, who don't play Eve to be prey. I'm not interested in facing danger from repeat criminals. That's why we stick to highsec, for low risk wealth accumulation. There should certainly be areas for both playstyles, low/null/wh for those who want to face the danger of constant death, and high for those who want a much more orderly, laid back, lawful, and safe experience. |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2106
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 23:03:24 -
[27] - Quote
And yet another derailed post by Veers. Damn griever !
Like I said before, his thoughts on the matter are irrelevant. He has been outclassed by higher CCP forces, who do research and present us facts. Or is he saying he knows more about Eve then CCP ?
CCP's facts during Fanfest 2015 are better kungfu then Veers boohoo !
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
554
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 23:29:10 -
[28] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:And yet another derailed post by Veers. Damn griever ! Like I said before, his thoughts on the matter are irrelevant. He has been outclassed by higher CCP forces, who do research and present us facts. Or is he saying he knows more about Eve then CCP ? CCP's facts during Fanfest 2015 are better kungfu then Veers boohoo ! Veers Belvar wrote:That's why we stick to highsec, for low risk wealth accumulation. There should certainly be areas for both playstyles, low/null/wh for those who want to face the danger of constant death, and high for those who want a much more orderly, laid back, lawful, and safe experience. You're in the wrong game. Games don't change because you cant handle it. Even when you started this game you knew what you were getting yourself into. You accepted it., so no crying afterwards.
Demonstrating the falsehood of your original post is not derailing the thread. And it's "griefer" not "griever." CCP nowhere demonstrating the Marmite curbstomps of new/pathetic players are somehow good for the game. Good for your bank account and entertainment, certainly, but only at the expense of others.
I came into the game to be a voice for a change, and a voice for a safer and more law abiding highsec. We seem to be winning. |
Revis Owen
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
126
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 23:30:13 -
[29] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Nowhere did CCP convey that one sided Marmite curbstompings are in any way good for the game.
I got curbstomped by a Marmite fleet once, and I liked it.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23301
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 00:05:02 -
[30] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I came into the game to be a voice for a change, and a voice for a safer and more law abiding highsec. We seem to be winning. terrible troll
FTFY
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1262
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 00:23:08 -
[31] - Quote
People who die sooner than later are less likely to give two sh*ts about safety. People who make it their life's goal to never lose a ship are the ones who will rage quit after 4 months of killing themselves in highsec.
Thus I say: After 3 days in game without a loss to another player, a newbro should be given a permanent suspect timer until they have lost 5 mil worth of ships.
I predict no one would ever quit.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2109
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 00:54:56 -
[32] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I came into the game to be a voice for a change, and a voice for a safer and more law abiding highsec. We seem to be winning. You know how arrogant that sounds ? "I came to the game and now they must change it cuz I am here" ... serious mate ? You're not even close to winning, if there was already something to win, as even CCP agrees with the aggressors. Checkmate, m8!
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2536
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 01:19:09 -
[33] - Quote
Danalee wrote:- Marmites don't strive to interact negatively with new players. (You'll have to take my word for it, go figure ) - Marmites in general help and support new players on a regular basis. - In some threads, Veers says Marmites are ineffective. - In this thread, Veers says Marmites go around and 'curbstomp' people (so ARE in fact effective). - In this thread, Veers says Facts, numbers and statistics are not relevant. - in this thread, Veers says his truths are the only ones that matter.
Veers 2016. He's clearly mastered one of the most important skills for a politician.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
268
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 02:14:28 -
[34] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Stock twaddle.
I regularly reimburse new players and talk to them at length about how to avoid getting killed in future. This is obviously at odds with my ultimate goal of being a skill-less, risk averse griefing ne'er-do-well and, for someone as myopic as you, would not be a logical course of action.
No doubt a few of those I've killed went potty and left the game, but in my experience, having popped many a space cherry, I think you'll find that not everyone is as anally retentive as you are and the majority of newer players are happy to engage with their killers. This has never been as a result of me convoing them to 'farm tears', but quite the reverse. New players are more often than not curious as to how a particular situation came about in terms of mechanics. The same applies to most people I fly with.
Sadly your sweeping generalizations devalue your arguments, which are weak at best and continue to reinforce the impression most people have of you as being an asshat. This is a shame as you're obviously an intelligent person. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23310
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 02:33:16 -
[35] - Quote
^^ +1 for using the word twaddle
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2238
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 06:17:53 -
[36] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
That you don't find PvE fun is certainly your prerogative. And certainly you can get your thrill about being prey to a predator by going to low/null. There are many, like me, who don't play Eve to be prey. I'm not interested in facing danger from repeat criminals. That's why we stick to highsec, for low risk wealth accumulation. There should certainly be areas for both playstyles, low/null/wh for those who want to face the danger of constant death, and high for those who want a much more orderly, laid back, lawful, and safe experience.
Nobody is limiting play styles. The only one trying to do that is you, and the other bears trying to kill this game. It has been 10 years, and in that ten years every single player has started at a highsec station. Each of them went through the learning curve, understanding what actions end up in getting them blown up. High sec, as you have correctly stated, is more orderly. However, it is not safe, and by the exact wording of CCP, is not intended to be.
Yeah, you can duck wardecs, you can do your best to avoid conflict, and you can fill the forums with your poison. If you are just a troll, its masterful. If you actually think the crap you write is true, you are helping to drive the nails into EVE's coffin.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Brawlers Inc.
1556
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 11:50:39 -
[37] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. What you see is what you get. They made the same wrong assumptions as you did, but were man enough to admit it after proper research. Wars and Ganking are good for Eve..... Let's buff it and make Eve an even better place. \\ // http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004 - Starts at 3:15 Started at 3:15? I have to admit to laughing when I saw that. Excellent presentation.
Veers, forget marmite in the discussion for a minute. Explain to me how gank victims are more likely to subscribe than victims of "legitimate pvp", and how that means that wardec and ganking groups are bad for the game. Tora, less wardeccing, more ganking! =P
New Player Placement Specialist and Scope Project FC.
Contact me for a free consultation.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
|
Starrakatt
Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum
241
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:25:53 -
[38] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. What you see is what you get. They made the same wrong assumptions as you did, but were man enough to admit it after proper research. Wars and Ganking are good for Eve..... Let's buff it and make Eve an even better place. \\ // http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004 - Starts at 3:15 Started at 3:15? I have to admit to laughing when I saw that. Excellent presentation. Veers, forget marmite in the discussion for a minute. Explain to me how gank victims are more likely to subscribe than victims of "legitimate pvp", and how that means that wardec and ganking groups are bad for the game. Tora, less wardeccing, more ganking! =P I agree, every wardec organisation SHOULD have a gank squad to deal with specific 'clients', such as Veers, and other corp droppers.
Statistics says it all, people who get exploded tend to play longer, YEAH!
Forsaken Asylum's ways
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Waltaratzor
Aliastra Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 12:39:08 -
[39] - Quote
An incredible number of players never even experience PvP. They mine or run missions, then quit because those things are boring.
For many of these people, getting forced to PvP through a wardec or gank is the only thing that will break this trend. |
Ilithyia Borgia
The Conference Elite CODE.
9
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 18:35:10 -
[40] - Quote
Why feed the troll? Veers is clearly immune to both facts and reason. |
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Ilithyia Borgia
The Conference Elite CODE.
9
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 18:38:29 -
[41] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Stock twaddle.
Sadly your sweeping generalizations devalue your arguments, which are weak at best and continue to reinforce the impression most people have of you as being an asshat (see what I did there?). This is a shame as you're obviously an intelligent person.
Must disagree - intelligent people modify their positions in the face of contradictory evidence. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1202
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 20:00:10 -
[42] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:tears, glorious tears
How wonderful that CCP finally shatters your delusions.
So when are you cancelling your account?
Soon, we all hope?
Because clearly this game isn't for you.
Be sure to send us postcards from Star Trek Online or whatever other game you migrate too.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Ripard Teg
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1018
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 20:28:04 -
[43] - Quote
So let's see if we can sum up CCP's "Science!" here:
- Gankers would rather kill mining barges, particularly Hulks and Mackinaws (and other ships you can't fly within 15 days);
- Gankers rarely kill Ventures and cruisers (and other ships you can fly within 15 days);
- new players that jump right into BRAVE, RvB, or other "legal" PvP activity enjoy EVE and stay subscribed; and,
- new players that avoid PvP and presumably stick with EVE's horrifically bad PvE don't subscribe.
Have I summed up the "research" adequately? In other news, CCP discovers that water is wet and snow is cold.
I appreciate that they looked at this issue, but talk about spending your time on the wrong thing...
aka Jester, who apparently was once entrusted to Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
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Alana Charen-Teng
Sword of the Saviour 315th Circuit Court
542
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 20:32:43 -
[44] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers.
Kinda like how Tora Bushido is curbstomping you in this thread? |
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1168
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 20:34:09 -
[45] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:So let's see if we can sum up CCP's "Science!" here:
- Gankers would rather kill mining barges, particularly Hulks and Mackinaws (and other ships you can't fly within 15 days);
- Gankers rarely kill Ventures and cruisers (and other ships you can fly within 15 days);
- new players that jump right into BRAVE, RvB, or other "legal" PvP activity enjoy EVE and stay subscribed; and,
- new players that avoid PvP and presumably stick with EVE's horrifically bad PvE don't subscribe.
Have I summed up the "research" adequately? In other news, CCP discovers that water is wet and snow is cold. I appreciate that they looked at this issue, but talk about spending your time on the wrong thing...
Hell. It froze over.
Liked and agreed.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Super Perforator
New Order Logistics CODE.
45
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 21:06:29 -
[46] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Nowhere did CCP convey that one sided Marmite curbstompings are in any way good for the game. I got curbstomped by a Marmite fleet once, and I liked it.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/43871586/
I had fun, would do it again.
Stress? Just cool it... CODE. Diplo.
Praise James!
|
Ilithyia Borgia
The Conference Elite CODE.
10
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 21:25:48 -
[47] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:So let's see if we can sum up CCP's "Science!" here:
- Gankers would rather kill mining barges, particularly Hulks and Mackinaws (and other ships you can't fly within 15 days);
- Gankers rarely kill Ventures and cruisers (and other ships you can fly within 15 days);
- new players that jump right into BRAVE, RvB, or other "legal" PvP activity enjoy EVE and stay subscribed; and,
- new players that avoid PvP and presumably stick with EVE's horrifically bad PvE don't subscribe.
Have I summed up the "research" adequately? In other news, CCP discovers that water is wet and snow is cold. I appreciate that they looked at this issue, but talk about spending your time on the wrong thing...
Nice analysis, but I am not sure you have the evidence to back up your first and second points. As a ganker, point one is probably correct. However, we regularly go after ventures. CODE. recently sponsored a venture killing contest.
Also, you can, in fact, fly the T1 barges within 15 days. So it is likely that there are ample kills of these ships included in the data-set.
I agree with your third point, but you leave out that CCP Rise stated that it is gank targets who are the most likely to stick around. Not sure why, but this is just the opposite of what the carebear apologists argue.
CCP may have defined "new player" too narrowly here. It would be interesting to see if they look at this over different player ages (30, 90, and 180 days would be good)
All this aside, what is important here is that the carebear myths that gankers intentionally target "new players" and this has a negative impact on player retention have been debunked. |
Saeger1737
Deadly Fingertips Absolute Defiance
1073
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 21:31:07 -
[48] - Quote
I highly doubt CCP will ignore all the raw data stating marmite isn't worth it. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
218
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 21:40:58 -
[49] - Quote
Brave did more for new players in a month of living in Barleguet than you will most likely ever do. You are about KB stats. Brave was about fun. Guess which one is more important to new players?
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1169
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 22:11:46 -
[50] - Quote
Saeger1737 wrote:I highly doubt CCP will ignore all the raw data stating marmite isn't worth it.
Which would make you what....
Oh right
^^ back ON topic, recovering from agreeing with Ripard and all... I realised it was just the rough jist of what he was saying. 'gankers would rather kill ****' is pretty wrong but the rest of the post was solid imho.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Masao Kurata
Z List
190
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Posted - 2015.03.23 22:11:49 -
[51] - Quote
I'd like to share a little (but overly verbose) story from when I started playing EVE in mid 2013, coincidentally just after the release of Odyssey (I'm still pretty pissed about destroyers, BCs and command ships). They might not be 100% accurate, I don't recall every detail, but I think I'm not so senile that the gist won't be approximately right.
Like most gamers, I'd heard of EVE. In discussions of MMOs, how EVE does something always comes up. The main things I knew about EVE was that it had an advanced market and industry system, that it had real time based skill training and it was "the MMO that allows griefing and theft". I was intrigued but wasn't in the market for an MMO and suspected that it'd be grindy like every MMO. I did not know that it was a space game at all, and I don't think this is even very relevant to EVE's appeal; if we were submarine pilots I don't think that would change the game much at all.
One day I was feeling depressed and didn't care that an MMO would probably eat a lot of time and give little back, so I asked a player I know and got a referral link. He's a carebear for what it's worth and his guidance was mechanically helpful but didn't send me down any interesting paths. Most usefully he pointed me towards the EVE University public channel. Now, I'd heard that EVE was dangerous, and when I undocked I was looking around for possible threats, being suspicious of everyone, but nobody attacked me or even tried to bait me and I was disappointed. The universe was not very cold nor harsh, and I didn't know any of the main reasons why, more on that later. Well, to make it short, I spent my trial gawping at the beauty of space, which I still do sometimes, doing tutorials, the soe epic arc and a little exploration. I wasn't really engaged though and I quit.
Now fast forward a while and I heard of something called "Burn Jita", and googled it, and what a fruitful search term that was. By following links I found out about miniluv, the New Order and the Belligerent Undesirables among others. This was the EVE that I'd heard of! I decided to create another trial and train for ganking, since I hadn't really trained any relevant skills on my first character.
Something curious happened when I took this new character through the career agents quickly as a refresher and for some capital. I saw a pilot in a flashy incursus taunting new players and trying to duel them. From my first trial and my recent reading I knew some simple mechanics, so I bought a ship scanner and decided to check his fit. Hmm, dual rep, tech II everything... killing a serious tech II pvp fit was a big deal to me at the time and even the module drops looked tasty to my meagre wallet. I went to pyfa and tried with my weak knowledge to work out a fit that could best him in solo pvp despite a severe difference in SP and skill. I needed a couple of days to train those skills, but I watchlisted him and promised him that I would show him that a new player can win, and he mocked me like he mocked everyone, saying that I would never beat him. He was right. The fight never happened. He didn't log on again.
What I didn't know until some months later was that engaging in PvP of any form with rookies in rookie systems is potentially bannable if the rookie petitions it. It's "griefing". Wait, isn't this the MMO that allows "griefing"? I was annoyed by his mocking, his superiority, but I didn't feel put off EVE, I wanted to teach him a lesson! I would probably have lost, but I would've tried and wonderful things could have come from that above and beyond the thrill. But no, it's "griefing", no fun allowed.
CCP needs to look hard at the data and see that it rejects the theme park. Give the players what they need, not what they say they want and EVE can reach its third decade. |
Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
275
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Posted - 2015.03.23 22:19:30 -
[52] - Quote
Ilithyia Borgia wrote:Mortlake wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Stock twaddle.
Sadly your sweeping generalizations devalue your arguments, which are weak at best and continue to reinforce the impression most people have of you as being an asshat (see what I did there?). This is a shame as you're obviously an intelligent person. Must disagree - intelligent people modify their positions in the face of contradictory evidence.
You've got me.
On a totally unrelated note, I really like your hair. |
Paranoid Loyd
4331
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Posted - 2015.03.23 22:24:02 -
[53] - Quote
Ilithyia Borgia wrote:Must disagree - intelligent people modify their positions in the face of contradictory evidence. Unless they are just trolling.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
122
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Posted - 2015.03.24 00:00:41 -
[54] - Quote
I love it that the data reflects that the PVP influence is good for retention, even when it's chaotic griefing ROFLSTOMPING.
For lack of a better term, I would like to describe this influence as "fun."
I have selected a case study that came to my attention recently. I was searching for an old forum post and ran across a blog post that mentioned my character name.
Naturally, I read it.
It was from a war dec I participated in in 2011 that made such an impression on a character that 3 years later, he chose to write about it.
Ironically, considering the topic as to whether clubbing our noobs like baby seals helps retain them, my corp back then was called "Eve Pilot Help Center."
This blog post was also kinder to me than I deserve. -The Blog Post -My killboard from mashing up Drake Project -Drake Project's KB (when helped) - notice that their kills started here.
Most of the guys I've flown with are a little protective of new players. We laugh about popping their ships, but we usually reimburse if they're new enough... or teach them.
I know they love it because I made a lot of friends doing it.
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Masao Kurata
Z List
194
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 00:14:45 -
[55] - Quote
Also this is why we needed a highsec criminal on the CSM so badly. This conclusion is completely obvious to most gankers, wardecs, ninjas etc. It's well known that there's a CCP policy that devs are barred from these activities on their non-CCP alliance characters. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23337
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 00:23:34 -
[56] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Also this is why we needed a highsec criminal on the CSM so badly. This conclusion is completely obvious to most gankers, wardecs, ninjas etc. It's well known that there's a CCP policy that devs are barred from these activities on their non-CCP alliance characters. Agreed, I've been saying that for the last couple of years, and fair play to them several people have stepped up to try.
It doesn't even have to be a criminal, tbh. Any candidate with extensive highsec PvP mechanics and execution knowledge would give some sorely needed representation.
I may be a bear but you guys make life interesting, without you my gameplay would be stale and probably coming to an end through boredom.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2538
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 00:44:46 -
[57] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote: talk about spending your time on the wrong thing...
Something you're most definitely qualified to talk about.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
27
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Posted - 2015.03.24 02:20:51 -
[58] - Quote
Noragen had bummed around in eve for a couple of weeks with a friend of his and they had made plans for where to base out of. But the grind had become tedious and our ships were terribly fit so Noragen went out of game to look for a skill plan and a ship fitting guide. However all this came to naught as nothing felt right. Fate had us bump into a player from eve university and Noragen gave the game a few more weeks while his friend quit from not being able to find content. During the lengthy process the subject of eve uni being at war came up. Not really sure what any of this meant and ignoring all advise Noragen only moved some of his assets before joining. The day Noragen joined eve uni he was told that evil marmites would be hunting him and to dock up if he saw any in local. Well thinking how big eve was and that there weren't that many about he moved the last of his assets in his itty 2.
I'm sure you see where this is going
DISASTER Caught on a gate in an unfitted ship with precious assets (meta 0-2 mods and some BPCs) he was killed but having set up the pod saver tab managed to get his pod away. Killed in safe space he was outraged. It wasn't Noragens style to cry on forums or write strongly worded letters to game devs. Noragen was a direct action kinda capsuleer. He got on mumble and attended that weeks tackle 101 and 102 classes and trained for his tackle patron he was given and fit up a few more. He joined every fleet and also managed to get the isk together for a PvP thorax. Before long Noragen was on every anti Marmite (and other wardeccers) fleet eve uni had to offer. He then at little more then a month or so game time got his first kill mail. It was a dirty Marmite. The feeling was incredible he made a 6 month sub that week and started an alt account. Then while trawling for action and patrolling for bad guys while the fleet was in he he found a evil lone marmite 3 jumps from he in a hawk. Noragen screamed out the Intel on com's. Both eyed each other at 0 on the gate for an eternity (maybe 5 seconds) b4 the hawk agressed and Noragen said FC what do I do. Trinity was fc at the time and said use your best judgement we are 3 mins out. Assessing the incoming damage being done Noragen scrammed and dual webbed the little frig. Using a trick given to him by another pilot he used keep at range on the frig and launched his flight of light drones. As soon as Noragen agressed the hawk engaged its other weapons and it was on.
A eve uni ceptor pilot turned up after an eternity and calmly said on com's you got this mate. Kills all yours I'll try for the pod. Noragen less then 2 months old became a permanent subscriber that week (and got his first solo kill). This all sprouted from an avoidable loss mail to wardeccers.
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
555
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 04:05:22 -
[59] - Quote
The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12261
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 04:20:34 -
[60] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game.
Except that the ones who get ganked and curb stomped by Marmite have the highest retention rates.
Which makes the rest of your statement an obvious lie.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Masao Kurata
Z List
195
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 04:37:41 -
[61] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game.
Getting curbstomped gives you a sense of direction, either you want to do that too or you want revenge. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
555
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 04:41:21 -
[62] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. Getting curbstomped gives you a sense of direction, either you want to do that too or you want revenge.
Or you say this game is **** where rich and skilled vets get their giggles by blowing up helpless new players in wildly unfair fights, and quit the game. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12261
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 04:42:19 -
[63] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Or you say this game is **** where rich and skilled vets get their giggles by blowing up helpless new players in wildly unfair fights, and quit the game.
Except for the part where being curbstomped gives people a much higher retention rate.
Clearly, highsec needs to be much, much less safe.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
555
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 04:48:50 -
[64] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: Or you say this game is **** where rich and skilled vets get their giggles by blowing up helpless new players in wildly unfair fights, and quit the game.
Except for the part where being curbstomped gives people a much higher retention rate. Clearly, highsec needs to be much, much less safe.
No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit." |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1413
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 05:23:48 -
[65] - Quote
Just sitting here, nomming on my popcorn with this running through my head.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PANVSt8-M2M
I'm gonna assume, based off the repeated usage of the word "collaborative", that Veers believes that high sec pvp is not. Do go on.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1174
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 07:12:47 -
[66] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game.
Your experiences <> NPE nor every other (normal) person's experiences.
I'm sorry I have to point this out, it's when I assume things I make an ass out of U and ME.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
28
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 07:17:19 -
[67] - Quote
Losing a ship kept me in this game. Just saying
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Brawlers Inc.
1561
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 07:29:40 -
[68] - Quote
You know what made me quit eve the first time? Being in a corp that told me I wasn't allowed to lose ships. I had to stay docked and ship spin until other people came on line. I didn't know any better so I did just that. Then I played skill queue online for three months and left.
New Player Placement Specialist and Scope Project FC.
Contact me for a free consultation.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2131
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 08:15:23 -
[69] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Most of the guys I've flown with are a little protective of new players. We laugh about popping their ships, but we usually reimburse if they're new enough... or teach them. I know they love it because I made a lot of friends doing it. Ohhh noo, you broke the 'be very evil looking' code ! Now people will know we are nice guys. There go's our evil griefer image
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2131
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 08:24:12 -
[70] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Getting curbstomped gives you a sense of direction, either you want to do that too or you want revenge. This was exactly why Marmites was formed. I had some grief issues with Grr....Goons (scams etc) and decided to fight back. One of the reasons I do not hate Goons, but love what they do. Imagine how boring Eve would be without 'evil' players in game. And at Fanfest we all forget the in-game stuff and have a beer together while laughing about ****.
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
84
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 08:26:45 -
[71] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:You know what made me quit eve the first time? Being in a corp that told me I wasn't allowed to lose ships. I had to stay docked and ship spin until other people came on line. I didn't know any better so I did just that. Then I played skill queue online for three months and left.
Those player imposed restrictions damage the game experience more than anything else.
ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1414
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Posted - 2015.03.24 09:01:35 -
[72] - Quote
I sometimes feel a bit conflicted about the whole good vs evil thing in games, as I've seen other online games die due to one side getting an upper hand that becomes overwhelming. Hell, I've personally killed at least one MUD by actually playing 'evil'. It happens... With EVE's various regions and types of space it's not a realistic outcome however, as tides will continually shift.
EVE NEEDS villains for the white knights and other do gooders to have some tangible opposition that isn't NPC in nature. Thinking opponents make for meaningful accomplishments when defeated. It's more than 'oh hey guyz, I figured out the strat we need to use on the raid boss!'. Groups on both sides of the law keep things interesting and a little bit dangerous in the game, and I think that's one of the factors that has kept it alive for so long. Likewise, white knights, rebels, cat herders and whatnot are all just as necessary to keep things active.
The funny thing is that I've found that the evil guys tend to be more social, but not always. I ran into some spunky miners the other day when I was dinking around with a venture, when I returned in an Enyo I learned just how much pain a pair of skiffs with t2 drones could bring to the table. After scampering off with ass on fire we got to chatting, they then sicced me on another batch of miners in a different system, that got me chuckling.
Point being, that some folks just need the bars of their cages rattled now and then to remind them that they aren't alone, and that playing with others isn't a terrible thing.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
125
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 10:50:13 -
[73] - Quote
In the question of "how does getting curb stomped affect having fun?", I would like to reference the case study I posted earlier.
I would use exact quotes, but I'm on my phone. So I won't.
The guy who wrote that blog got curb stomped. We obliterated about two waves of everything his corp could muster.
Then they contacted me and got further exploited for isk.
Then they got to curb stomp someone else...they dusted that other fleet without losing a ship.
They had so much fun they didn't know what to do with themselves. I remember how happy they were... Cloud 9. The whole experience was good.
If CCP will put a rep with me in game, I'll buy enough plex to run war decs until he understands what we are talking about. These new rules destroyed the most beautiful thing in eve.
Current day... This would never have happened. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1206
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 12:03:07 -
[74] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:lies and more tears
Still upset that CCP broke your heart?
Awwwwww.
I believe the 'cancel account' button is over yonder
Be sure to biomass your toons on the way out the door.
kthnxcyabye
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
31
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Posted - 2015.03.24 12:40:20 -
[75] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:lies and more tears Still upset that CCP broke your heart? Awwwwww. I believe the 'cancel account' button is over yonder Be sure to biomass your toons on the way out the door. kthnxcyabye Don't be so mean. Without Veers who would we all laugh at?
I mean I don't wanna become the punching bag around here
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
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Ro Fenrios
Armilies corporation Balcora Gatekeepers
61
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Posted - 2015.03.24 12:40:31 -
[76] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game.
When I joined this game, I had no previous experience or knowledge about it at all. I wanted to do things however and one of those things was your very own corporation. Thus Armilies was born. Starting literally from two ventures in high sec belt, me and my new best buddy in game visioned that some day we have mighty industrial corporation in high sec. When we finally got enough isk (via mining) to get our first retriever (and that was like WOW its so huge compared to venture!!) we were really exited. But then came our first wardec. Barely two weeks into game and some random as corporation wardecs us. What is war? Why were we wardecced? Who are these guys?
Our best combat ships were destroyers while enemy had multiple T3s and (GASP) Drake. You can make guess how our first battle went. Now, here is the crucial part. Pay attention, Veers.
-We could have dropped the corp, quit the game, throw our hands up and surrender.
-Or we could find a way to fight this or least survive the wardec.
We chose to survive. Even though it seemed that high sec was now inpossible place for us to live in (Holy ****, we cannot mine!) and somehow our wardeccers always found us where ever we chose to hide in, we vowed one thing; our corp would not disband. We discovered soon that our deccers were avoiding that dark place called low sec. They never followed us there. Now, for two weeks old newb low sec felt intimidating place, judging from the stories that carebears in high used to tell us. If even our impossibly powerful wardeccers avoided that place, what kind of monsters dwelled in low sec then?
I was so scared. I kept warping around the system cause in low anyone could shoot you. What do people do in low sec? Do they just shoot each other? While I was scared to death any ship I saw on grid, I also felt proud for flying in low. I told my care bear friends what I am doing. (I find this truly amusing now)
And then! PIRATE shows up. I'm destroyed. In panic I warp to station in pod and dock up. What I'm going to do now? He is outside the station. I'm gaged in! This was probably scariest moment of my eve life although now looking back all I can do is laugh. The pirate dude convoes me and asks if I am new. He explains to me what happened and even returns me the stuff that dropped from my ship! I find it so bizarre that he can be so kind even when he just blew up my ship.
We become friends, he starts to teach me, he drives away our wardeccers and offers us protection. Suddenly eve becomes more exiting. I realize that there is so much more to do than just mining and mission running. At this point I start to see what eve as a sandbox means.
Had I never went into low sec. Had I never lost the ships I did, met people through that way. Had I just stayed in high and done mission running and mining - I would not be playing anymore. Mining and ratting is boring, even our industrial guys in corp say that.
These days Armil has grown into active small corporation, with good number of dedicated players. We do things together, succeed together or share our losses in bad days, but most of all appreciate the the support we give to one another and the fun and laughter we have when flying together.
And that industrial corp dream? We can build capitals these days or pretty much anything below supers, so that goal has been met. But since then we have reached so much further, beyond our original dreams and visions. Not alone, but together.
But difference is Veers, we chose to survive, to hold onto what little we had. I wont go as far as to say that I would thank our wardeccers, but I recognize that had we never been wardecced and thus forced to adapt, we would have never progressed to where we are now. I personally would not be playing anymore.
Now, tell me how wardecs are not a good thing? How shooting red crosses and fattening wallet only to fly more blingy ship to shoot red crosses will keep players interested in eve? Are you going to do that next 5 years? |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1419
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 12:43:13 -
[77] - Quote
I regret that I have only one like to give. Faxing bacon now.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
31
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Posted - 2015.03.24 12:49:34 -
[78] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:I regret that I have only one like to give. Faxing bacon now.
Edit: Stupid fax machine at work not functioning. I will neither confirm nor deny as to whether or not attempting to fax bacon has had any impact on this sad state of affairs.
Also, stuck here for 12 hours instead of the usual eight. Coherency degrading. Wait what... you can FAX BACON??? mind blown
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
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Ming Tso
Perkone Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2015.03.24 12:57:33 -
[79] - Quote
Ro Fenrios wrote:
But difference is Veers, we chose to survive, to hold onto what little we had. I wont go as far as to say that I would thank our wardeccers, but I recognize that had we never been wardecced and thus forced to adapt, we would have never progressed to where we are now. I personally would not be playing anymore.
This man understands what the Code is all about.
Some people get it early on. Some people are resistant to it and it takes them years to finally embrace the Code.
All will eventually. |
Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
279
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 13:06:40 -
[80] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit."
Apparently this has been available from all good Concord LP stores for some time. Why did nobody tell me? |
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2544
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 13:11:22 -
[81] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Don't be so mean. Without Veers who would we all laugh at?
Do you really need a list?
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1423
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 13:16:54 -
[82] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:I regret that I have only one like to give. Faxing bacon now.
Edit: Stupid fax machine at work not functioning. I will neither confirm nor deny as to whether or not attempting to fax bacon has had any impact on this sad state of affairs.
Also, stuck here for 12 hours instead of the usual eight. Coherency degrading. Wait what... you can FAX BACON??? mind blown
You surely can try. As I currently have the fax machine set to terrible standings I feel it justified to at least make the attempt. I regret that my boss knows me too well for the 'play stupid' ploy to have any chance of success.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1179
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 13:20:56 -
[83] - Quote
Every page on every thread on every forum category should have a post like this.
Ro Fenrios wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. When I joined this game, I had no previous experience or knowledge about it at all. I wanted to do things however and one of those things was your very own corporation. Thus Armilies was born. Starting literally from two ventures in high sec belt, me and my new best buddy in game visioned that some day we have mighty industrial corporation in high sec. When we finally got enough isk (via mining) to get our first retriever (and that was like WOW its so huge compared to venture!!) we were really exited. But then came our first wardec. Barely two weeks into game and some random as corporation wardecs us. What is war? Why were we wardecced? Who are these guys? Our best combat ships were destroyers while enemy had multiple T3s and (GASP) Drake. You can make guess how our first battle went. Now, here is the crucial part. Pay attention, Veers. -We could have dropped the corp, quit the game, throw our hands up and surrender. -Or we could find a way to fight this or least survive the wardec. We chose to survive. Even though it seemed that high sec was now inpossible place for us to live in (Holy ****, we cannot mine!) and somehow our wardeccers always found us where ever we chose to hide in, we vowed one thing; our corp would not disband. We discovered soon that our deccers were avoiding that dark place called low sec. They never followed us there. Now, for two weeks old newb low sec felt intimidating place, judging from the stories that carebears in high used to tell us. If even our impossibly powerful wardeccers avoided that place, what kind of monsters dwelled in low sec then? I was so scared. I kept warping around the system cause in low anyone could shoot you. What do people do in low sec? Do they just shoot each other? While I was scared to death any ship I saw on grid, I also felt proud for flying in low. I told my care bear friends what I am doing. (I find this truly amusing now) And then! PIRATE shows up. I'm destroyed. In panic I warp to station in pod and dock up. What I'm going to do now? He is outside the station. I'm gaged in! This was probably scariest moment of my eve life although now looking back all I can do is laugh. The pirate dude convoes me and asks if I am new. He explains to me what happened and even returns me the stuff that dropped from my ship! I find it so bizarre that he can be so kind even when he just blew up my ship. We become friends, he starts to teach me, he drives away our wardeccers and offers us protection. Suddenly eve becomes more exiting. I realize that there is so much more to do than just mining and mission running. At this point I start to see what eve as a sandbox means. Had I never went into low sec. Had I never lost the ships I did, met people through that way. Had I just stayed in high and done mission running and mining - I would not be playing anymore. Mining and ratting is boring, even our industrial guys in corp say that. These days Armil has grown into active small corporation, with good number of dedicated players. We do things together, succeed together or share our losses in bad days, but most of all appreciate the the support we give to one another and the fun and laughter we have when flying together. And that industrial corp dream? We can build capitals these days or pretty much anything below supers, so that goal has been met. But since then we have reached so much further, beyond our original dreams and visions. Not alone, but together. But difference is Veers, we chose to survive, to hold onto what little we had. I wont go as far as to say that I would thank our wardeccers, but I recognize that had we never been wardecced and thus forced to adapt, we would have never progressed to where we are now. I personally would not be playing anymore. Now, tell me how wardecs are not a good thing? How shooting red crosses and fattening wallet only to fly more blingy ship to shoot red crosses will keep players interested in eve? Are you going to do that next 5 years?
Love, D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Lucrezzia
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
16
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 13:43:07 -
[84] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I quit.
Could you please donate all your ISK and assets to Brave Dojo (our newbie teaching corp) before you quit? Thank you in advance! <3 |
Capt Lynch
The Scope Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 14:21:12 -
[85] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Every page on every thread on every forum category should have a post like this. Ro Fenrios wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. When I joined this game, I had no previous experience or knowledge about it at all. I wanted to do things however and one of those things was your very own corporation. Thus Armilies was born. Starting literally from two ventures in high sec belt, me and my new best buddy in game visioned that some day we have mighty industrial corporation in high sec. When we finally got enough isk (via mining) to get our first retriever (and that was like WOW its so huge compared to venture!!) we were really exited. But then came our first wardec. Barely two weeks into game and some random as corporation wardecs us. What is war? Why were we wardecced? Who are these guys? Our best combat ships were destroyers while enemy had multiple T3s and (GASP) Drake. You can make guess how our first battle went. Now, here is the crucial part. Pay attention, Veers. -We could have dropped the corp, quit the game, throw our hands up and surrender. -Or we could find a way to fight this or least survive the wardec. We chose to survive. Even though it seemed that high sec was now inpossible place for us to live in (Holy ****, we cannot mine!) and somehow our wardeccers always found us where ever we chose to hide in, we vowed one thing; our corp would not disband. We discovered soon that our deccers were avoiding that dark place called low sec. They never followed us there. Now, for two weeks old newb low sec felt intimidating place, judging from the stories that carebears in high used to tell us. If even our impossibly powerful wardeccers avoided that place, what kind of monsters dwelled in low sec then? I was so scared. I kept warping around the system cause in low anyone could shoot you. What do people do in low sec? Do they just shoot each other? While I was scared to death any ship I saw on grid, I also felt proud for flying in low. I told my care bear friends what I am doing. (I find this truly amusing now) And then! PIRATE shows up. I'm destroyed. In panic I warp to station in pod and dock up. What I'm going to do now? He is outside the station. I'm gaged in! This was probably scariest moment of my eve life although now looking back all I can do is laugh. The pirate dude convoes me and asks if I am new. He explains to me what happened and even returns me the stuff that dropped from my ship! I find it so bizarre that he can be so kind even when he just blew up my ship. We become friends, he starts to teach me, he drives away our wardeccers and offers us protection. Suddenly eve becomes more exiting. I realize that there is so much more to do than just mining and mission running. At this point I start to see what eve as a sandbox means. Had I never went into low sec. Had I never lost the ships I did, met people through that way. Had I just stayed in high and done mission running and mining - I would not be playing anymore. Mining and ratting is boring, even our industrial guys in corp say that. These days Armil has grown into active small corporation, with good number of dedicated players. We do things together, succeed together or share our losses in bad days, but most of all appreciate the the support we give to one another and the fun and laughter we have when flying together. And that industrial corp dream? We can build capitals these days or pretty much anything below supers, so that goal has been met. But since then we have reached so much further, beyond our original dreams and visions. Not alone, but together. But difference is Veers, we chose to survive, to hold onto what little we had. I wont go as far as to say that I would thank our wardeccers, but I recognize that had we never been wardecced and thus forced to adapt, we would have never progressed to where we are now. I personally would not be playing anymore. Now, tell me how wardecs are not a good thing? How shooting red crosses and fattening wallet only to fly more blingy ship to shoot red crosses will keep players interested in eve? Are you going to do that next 5 years? Love, D.
Agreed. Pirates get too much bad rap as assholes. Most pirates I've met are decent people, they just RP as assholes in EVE. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1208
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 14:24:41 -
[86] - Quote
Capt Lynch wrote:Agreed. Pirates get too much bad rap as assholes. Most pirates I've met are decent people, they just RP as assholes in EVE.
I am a cute cuddly space hamster.
Yarrrr.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
113
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 16:04:54 -
[87] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit."
Not sure we are playing the same game. I was in null/WHs two months into the game. If you are getting curbstomped, you are new player-ing wrong. |
Revis Owen
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
129
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 16:09:51 -
[88] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Capt Lynch wrote:Pirates get too much bad rap as assholes. Most pirates I've met are decent people, they just RP as assholes in EVE. I am a cute cuddly space hamster. Yarrrr.
Confirming Mike's a very decent guy, cuddly furry small mammal, and a pirate a-hole.
Connecting this back to the topic, I highly recommend membership in his corp for both newbros and vets interested in increasing player retention via blowing their ships up.
I'm even more comfortable in making this recommendation now that CCP has confirmed that ships blowing up non-consensually is SOMEHOW connected to players' subscribing to and staying in a game about non-consensual blowing up of ships.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
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Nof Nof
Incertae Sedis
5
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 16:39:52 -
[89] - Quote
I have been in many corps war decced by marmite and other trade hub war Dec entities. Our corp never quit the game in fact we fought back in some instances but veers hits the nail on the head.
"Some players just want to sit in hi sec and accumulate wealth"
The biggest problem with eve is it doesn't encourage players to leave hi security because they can earn a lot of wealth care bearing out of an orca with minimal risk. If anything needs to be fixed it's nerfing high security income. You don't deserve any wealth for being a coward. |
Lorelei Ierendi
We Care A Lot
149
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:08:46 -
[90] - Quote
Nof Nof wrote:I have been in many corps war decced by marmite and other trade hub war Dec entities. Our corp never quit the game in fact we fought back in some instances but veers hits the nail on the head.
"Some players just want to sit in hi sec and accumulate wealth"
The biggest problem with eve is it doesn't encourage players to leave hi security because they can earn a lot of wealth care bearing out of an orca with minimal risk. If anything needs to be fixed it's nerfing high security income. You don't deserve any wealth for being a coward.
Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Complaining about getting blown up in a game about blowing spaceships up... doesn't make you a coward either... even if it is hard to understand you.
I think the potential increase in profits between high and low needs to be looked at by people that understand that sort of thing.
If everyone was the same, then the world/game would be a boring place.
http://hisec-carebear.blogspot.de/
|
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Nof Nof
Incertae Sedis
6
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:52:03 -
[91] - Quote
I agree with your point. You should be allowed to do what you want for your sub money. The problem is when people like veers complain about being Ganked when that is what other players want to do with their subscription and then come.up with all these hell fire and brimstone excuses how them losing a ship somehow ruins eve. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
126
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 18:21:32 -
[92] - Quote
Akianavas is one of the noob training systems. I didn't know that when I first moved there, I went there for the population. I didn't yet know much about pvp.
It had a LOT of people online all the time. There were always people outside station baiting and fighting. You could find solo and small team fights all the time.
I have killed noobs too, but after a while they were my noobs and I always felt a sense of duty to them. I replaced a lot of ships and taught a lot. I made loads of friends.
I worked really hard to make it unpleasant to mistreat my noobs.
One day I found a macharial and tenge outside baiting. Naturally, I took the bait and popped the macharial. He dropped 2.3 billion, if I remember correctly.
I snagged all of it, but the tenge was still working on me.
Unsolicited, I had 7 rep boats turn up to save me. From local corps. I knew them all, but none of them owed me anything. They were just locals.
The one public award you can see on my character was awarded when my corp mates found out I split the loot 8 even ways to take care of those guys.
High sec pvp'ers in noob systems isn't what carebears make it out to be. I think I enriched the Akianavas experience for most players. I want those old rules back.
|
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1569
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 18:42:52 -
[93] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Your opinion is irrelevant, as its overruled by CCP facts. Deal with it. can i use this quote for Kaagarous? He would love you for this
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1017
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 19:01:39 -
[94] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. Getting curbstomped gives you a sense of direction, either you want to do that too or you want revenge.
Or you want to learn how to avoid it in the future. Any of those are good options and create interest in the game. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1017
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 19:02:28 -
[95] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. Getting curbstomped gives you a sense of direction, either you want to do that too or you want revenge. Or you say this game is **** where rich and skilled vets get their giggles by blowing up helpless new players in wildly unfair fights, and quit the game.
That would make you the >1% CCP mentioned. Which means no one cares or should care. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1017
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 19:03:24 -
[96] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: Or you say this game is **** where rich and skilled vets get their giggles by blowing up helpless new players in wildly unfair fights, and quit the game.
Except for the part where being curbstomped gives people a much higher retention rate. Clearly, highsec needs to be much, much less safe. No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit."
Again that would make them the >1% and as such no one cares. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1017
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 19:23:32 -
[97] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit."
Apparently this has been available from all good Concord LP stores for some time. Why did nobody tell me?
Who made that? I want to thank directly. Also sad face I can only give one like. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1018
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 19:30:36 -
[98] - Quote
Nof Nof wrote:I agree with your point. You should be allowed to do what you want for your sub money. The problem is when people like veers complain about being Ganked when that is what other players want to do with their subscription and then come.up with all these hell fire and brimstone excuses how them losing a ship somehow ruins eve.
That's a problem with NPE and player awareness of the nature of Eve, not HS economics. (In his case it's specifically HS incursions, which I think are a bit OP income wise) I myself make all my money in HS and looking at my killboard should make it pretty obvious I'm not risk adverse or a coward (though I am a bit sporadic in activity level).
tl;dr Veers says a lot of things, backs up none of them with evidence, and refuses to acknowledge the validity of any point that disagrees with him. He's blind to the nature of Eve and it's players and won't listen to reason. Most HS dwellers are not like him. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
220
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 19:47:48 -
[99] - Quote
Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward.
Yes. Yes it does.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Revis Owen
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
131
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:58:02 -
[100] - Quote
Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
738
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:05:59 -
[101] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit." the people whose noob corp gets wardecced by marmite are more likely to die, and hence more likely to stay
i look forward to your next rephrasing of "damn the data, fire is wet" |
Lorelei Ierendi
We Care A Lot
150
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:15:43 -
[102] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please.
1) I really enjoy flying transports and fulfilling contracts.... moving stuff around. I liked that in Elite back then.... and I like that here and now. It is an extra kick knowing that the contracts I am fulfilling are contracts made by actual players that are paying to have stuff moved!
2) Exploring is fun, wherever it is.
Just two examples?? Please. Just because I have fun doing stuff that you don't enjoy... we should be embracing the differences between us.
It could also be that successfully avoiding a gate camp in uedama also contributes to my fun... without needing me to be attacking or blowing up other people.
http://hisec-carebear.blogspot.de/
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Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1019
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:17:19 -
[103] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please.
Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie? |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
221
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:24:44 -
[104] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please. Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie?
I'll accept those as fun, but cowardly.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1570
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:11:16 -
[105] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please. Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie? I'll accept those as fun, but cowardly. CODE. and marmites won't agree with you
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1020
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:26:34 -
[106] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please. Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie? I'll accept those as fun, but cowardly. CODE. and marmites won't agree with you
We just have too much fun. :D Besides, most of us have alts out in low, null, or WH space.
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
221
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:46:47 -
[107] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote: We just have too much fun. :D Besides, most of us have alts out in low, null, or WH space.
Exactly. If Hi Seccers weren't so cowardly in the first place, you wouldn't have to be there in Hi Sec ganking them to get content. Don't get me wrong, ganking is fun and educational, I whole heartedly approve, just that's it's not exactly risky.
We all know CODE. is full of elite pvpers, which is why ill be betting on them during the alliance tournament. Oh wait.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2143
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Posted - 2015.03.24 23:16:10 -
[108] - Quote
Killing Ventures for example in PF- is much higher risk 1337 pvp of course
https://zkillboard.com/character/92717906/group/463/
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1029
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Posted - 2015.03.25 00:05:41 -
[109] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Tengu Grib wrote: We just have too much fun. :D Besides, most of us have alts out in low, null, or WH space.
Exactly. If Hi Seccers weren't so cowardly in the first place, you wouldn't have to be there in Hi Sec ganking them to get content. Don't get me wrong, ganking is fun and educational, I whole heartedly approve, just that's it's not exactly risky. We all know CODE. is full of elite pvpers, which is why ill be betting on them during the alliance tournament. Oh wait.
War decing in HS can be pretty risky, you never know what your enemies are going to pull out of their hats if they're clever. More though, it's about the hunt, the stalking your prey. Watching and waiting for your moment to strike.
Kinda like killing miners in null and lowsec!
(I wholeheartedly approve) |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1572
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 00:27:18 -
[110] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:March rabbit wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:
Ganking and War decing. Can I haz cookie?
I'll accept those as fun, but cowardly. CODE. and marmites won't agree with you We just have too much fun. :D Besides, most of us have alts out in low, null, or WH space. noone can check that you have alts in WH/low/0.0... so i don't take. Sorry
and having fun means nothing when you talk about 'cowardity'
Not that i care anyway
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Nof Nof
Incertae Sedis
9
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Posted - 2015.03.25 01:57:01 -
[111] - Quote
Let me rephrase:
Sitting around all day mining in HS, Running Missions, etc should be rewarded on a more realistic level. My comments are pointed at the groups that think the sole purpose of eve is to "grind isk" in the "safety" of hi sec.
The funny thing is.... if they want to be wealthy like they say they would come out to a wormhole, make the most insane isk in the game, and rarely have to deal with the war decs as most WH groups have worked around the HS war dec thing and have non affiliated freighter alts.
But.... Lets sit in the safety net of hi sec and whine to ccp that we cant play a mining game. Hi sec ganking and marmites are good for the game because they encourage players to expand their horizons.
I myself :
I had a corp awoxed 4 months in to the game by a code rep who destroyed everything. Our entire high sec mining corp fell in to shambles. I decided to move on to a Null Sec alliance and after that got in to wormholes. That awox and my ships getting killed were the most liberating experience in eve. I enjoy the game much more, have made tons of isk, and have even had the unfortunate situation of being evicted and lost billions.
No worries cause the game is fun and it didnt cause me to quit, instead we regrouped, changed plans, and I am having more fun than I ever have.
If it wasnt for a code awox I would have quit long ago. WHen it comes to groups like marmites I was once wardecced by them and chose to engage them on a gate with a terribad fit. I lost but I was convod, sent a better ship fit, and given combat tips. How many more out there had my experience? IT sure seems a lot better than sitting next to another AFK ship in a belt mining veldspar for 30 million an hour (if your'e lucky).
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Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
132
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Posted - 2015.03.25 02:34:10 -
[112] - Quote
I frequently see null and lowsec players accuse high sec players of being unskilled or cowards.
I am writing this to try to bridge the gap. I have no animosity towards low or null players. I've met guys with great skill who play in both areas. However, from what I've seen, the high sec crowd is not substantially outclassed.
Great players are great players... regardless of where the engagement takes place.
For me, I believe the quality of the player is based on the individual's command of maneuver and damage mechanics. Individuals who understand engagements make good builds and use them correctly. They make the most of every situation, no matter how bad the odds.
Regardless of where they play (low, null, or high), I think the quality of a player is dictated by skill alone... and players in all areas have it.
The cowardice piece is even more foreign to me. Cowardice implies risk aversion.
For me, it's not that I'm risk averse. Quite the opposite. I am a true solo player (no multibox).
I like taking a lot of risk when I play and seeing if I can beat the odds. I generally play with cheap ships that are pretty easily replaceable.
A few vignettes to counter the idea that I'm risk averse (I can post KM's to substantiate this): -I was ranked as mighty mouse on Battleclinic before they came up with the strange new interface, with about 15 solo cruiser kills with a T1 frigate. -I've got a Rokh kill with a Hawk (shot it with Rokhets) -I once killed a cormorant and thorax at the same time with a griffin. (crap builds... but I didn't know that when the fight started... and the thorax player was as old as I was). My ass was on fire by the time that was over. -Early on in the Orphanage (before it go so many people), the 10+ war decs on major null alliances produced some "touch and go" fights. If I'm that bad, you would think I would have been averse to fighting 10+ major null alliances. -I spent a substantial portion of 2012 stealing everything I could find in a battle badger... and if you look at some of the ships I picked fights with in a badger you wouldn't call me risk averse. -I can post a fight in Osvestmunur in which" Nolimitsoldier" and I took down ~17 opponents in all sized ships with just the two of us (approx. 25 in the enemy fleet).
If I was risk averse, I would not have tried to do these things. If you look at my ship losses you will probably conclude that I don't play to keep ships and, possibly, that my problem is risk affinity or just poor judgement.
Ultimately, I play to have fun and I never degrade or disrespect my opponents.
Hopefully you can conclude that cowardice isn't my problem. With the cheap imaginary ships I fly, who would even care to lose them.
My old corp mates used to accuse me of welfare warfare.
So why don't I play in low? I tried. If for no other reason than to get more respect, I'd love to do it.
I think playing in low is like hanging out at the pool at a Motel 6. You most likely won't see anyone else there. If you do, violence is likely. But most days, it's just you in a crappy location with nothing to do.
I also hate the fact that you can't aggress on gates in low (or the gate guns turn you into a puff of confetti).
Also, I don't multibox. If I get a -10 sec status, then I'm stuck at the Motel 6. I don't like that idea.
Why don't I play in null? - I'm trying it for the 5th time now. Honestly, it makes high sec look like a Rambo movie. The ultimate problem, though, is inconvenience.
1) I have never tried non-alliance null. However, I don't know how that would work unless I became so good I never lost a ship again. I would love to know how people do it. Where do you keep your stuff? How do you get modules... and ammo? 2) I think null is like high sec, except with 10x the rules. In fact, I would say I have less rules in real life than in null. Every time I go down I get pummeled with bureaucratic rules and bad leadership. Deep null politics are a major turn-off for me. 2) Also, every time I go to null, I spend 14 hours trying to find parts to fit out a ship. When I'm done, I've spent half a billion isk to build a half heavy missile/half cruise, armor rep raven with 3 empty mid slots, a tractor beam, and a civilian mining laser.
Not to disparage null players, but their rank and file is no more expert in builds than the equivalent player in high sec.
I play in high because I don't need anyone to tell me what to do. I get to decide who I want to shoot and who I don't. I can say whatever I want in local. I can fly whatever I want whenever I want.
If I don't like someone enough, I can just declare war on him.
But more than anything, I just want to be able to get ships when I want to. Low and null are just inconvenient. I have to subordinate my playtime to a logistics system.
I just don't see the benefit. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2249
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:36:19 -
[113] - Quote
Wait until a gang of 20 battle ventures from General Tso's alliance wipes you off the field...
God that was humiliating.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2249
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:38:16 -
[114] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote: -I've got a Rokh kill with a Hawk (shot it with Rokhets)
I threw up in my brain.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:40:05 -
[115] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: Or you say this game is **** where rich and skilled vets get their giggles by blowing up helpless new players in wildly unfair fights, and quit the game.
Except for the part where being curbstomped gives people a much higher retention rate. Clearly, highsec needs to be much, much less safe. No, it's the fact that the people willing to get curbstomped are the only ones willing to stay. The ones who want a collaborative highsec can't get it, because their noob corp gets wardecced by marmite. So they say "game sucks - I quit." Again that would make them the >1% and as such no one cares.
New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2249
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 03:42:43 -
[116] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument.
Show us on the strawman where the 1% touched you.
Nevermind. We know.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:43:56 -
[117] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Nof Nof wrote:I agree with your point. You should be allowed to do what you want for your sub money. The problem is when people like veers complain about being Ganked when that is what other players want to do with their subscription and then come.up with all these hell fire and brimstone excuses how them losing a ship somehow ruins eve. That's a problem with NPE and player awareness of the nature of Eve, not HS economics. (In his case it's specifically HS incursions, which I think are a bit OP income wise) I myself make all my money in HS and looking at my killboard should make it pretty obvious I'm not risk adverse or a coward (though I am a bit sporadic in activity level). tl;dr Veers says a lot of things, backs up none of them with evidence, and refuses to acknowledge the validity of any point that disagrees with him. He's blind to the nature of Eve and it's players and won't listen to reason. Most HS dwellers are not like him.
No Veers just doesn't buy into your delusional rhetoric that chasing people into npc corps and making highsec socially isolated and boring is somehow good for the game. Good for some lame giggles - sure...good for actually fostering multiplayer play? No way, Jose. But as a smart man once said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:44:42 -
[118] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument.
Show us on the strawman where the 1% touched you. Nevermind. We know.
Another typical contribution to the high level of discourse on the eve forums - keep up the good work. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2249
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 03:48:07 -
[119] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument.
Show us on the strawman where the 1% touched you. Nevermind. We know. Another typical contribution to the high level of discourse on the eve forums - keep up the good work.
I try, but it grows increasingly difficult to keep up with the horrid mess that spews forth from your keyboard. I can only do so much to keep up.
Stop trying to kill my game.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 03:55:48 -
[120] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument.
Show us on the strawman where the 1% touched you. Nevermind. We know. Another typical contribution to the high level of discourse on the eve forums - keep up the good work. I try, but it grows increasingly difficult to keep up with the horrid mess that spews forth from your keyboard. I can only do so much to keep up. Stop trying to kill my game.
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec. |
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2250
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Posted - 2015.03.25 04:07:01 -
[121] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: New/Casual players wanting to form a laid back highsec PvE corp without getting griefed into oblivion does not make them part of some tiny 1%...it's not even a good strawman argument.
Show us on the strawman where the 1% touched you. Nevermind. We know. Another typical contribution to the high level of discourse on the eve forums - keep up the good work. I try, but it grows increasingly difficult to keep up with the horrid mess that spews forth from your keyboard. I can only do so much to keep up. Stop trying to kill my game. No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec.
What about lowsec and jspace? Can I shoot them there too, or is PvP just allowed in nullsec?
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Zepher Helen Hawat
ULTRAMAR SECURITIES
45
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Posted - 2015.03.25 04:10:06 -
[122] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec.
No.
In a spaceship PVP game, we should be allowed to shoot spaceships where ever we want. This delusion that High-Sec is to be 100% safe is just silly, and moronic. You want safe, go play another game.
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Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
132
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Posted - 2015.03.25 04:17:14 -
[123] - Quote
Can someone link the actual presentation.
I would love to know if CCP is actually considering change.
I heard they were going to give sec status improvements for killing noobs under 2 weeks old... But that's not official yet.
Leto, hah.
Mo |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
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Posted - 2015.03.25 04:48:00 -
[124] - Quote
Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec.
No. In a spaceship PVP game, we should be allowed to shoot spaceships where ever we want. This delusion that High-Sec is to be 100% safe is just silly, and moronic. You want safe, go play another game.
Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1431
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Posted - 2015.03.25 05:07:01 -
[125] - Quote
Citing the one place where pvp is not okay does not validate your opinions regarding the rest of the region.
That's just squirrely nonsense.
Some forms of nonconsensual PvP are criminal acts there. The other forms you personally are opposed to. If you had your way high sec would be nothing but duels and arenas for pvp and everyone else could happily mine up their iron ore or hunt boars in the forest unmolested.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23352
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 05:49:34 -
[126] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec.
No. In a spaceship PVP game, we should be allowed to shoot spaceships where ever we want. This delusion that High-Sec is to be 100% safe is just silly, and moronic. You want safe, go play another game. Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. The rules for PvP in a newbie system are very specific, they don't mean that you can't shoot up a newbie system.
Quote:Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there. Nope, highsec is designed to be a PvP, of all kinds, area that has different mechanics than those of other space. One of those mechanics is a 100% effective reactive NPC force that punishes unsanctioned aggression.
Non consensual PvP isn't the crime, not paying Concord off is. Concord is basically an extortion racket that sells hunting permits and shoots poachers.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Faylee Freir
Defining Harassment Slaver's Union
68
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 05:50:21 -
[127] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Citing the one place where pvp is not okay does not validate your opinions regarding the rest of the region.
That's just squirrely nonsense.
Some forms of nonconsensual PvP are criminal acts there. The other forms you personally are opposed to. If you had your way high sec would be nothing but duels and arenas for pvp and everyone else could happily mine up their iron ore or hunt boars in the forest unmolested.
You mean to say you would actually want to harm those innocent boars?
I think both sides of the fence tend to get radical here. No one can deny that the new player experience is incredibly important, and something that CCP must get right. I am not entirely sure how valid these statistics are, or how in-depth CCP went to filter their results... What I can say is the eve online was created in 2003 to be a sandbox where players could interact with each other in was that would have you banned in other games. Just because someone comes along and doesn't like what eve has been about since 2003 doesn't mean that CCP needs to listen. We all knew what we were joining when we created our accounts, and I would have a hard time believing otherwise. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1431
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 06:03:15 -
[128] - Quote
"You mean to say you would actually want to harm those innocent boars?"
The acquisition of bacon is of the utmost importance. While I personally don't engage in much player vs boar action, it is necessary that some do in order for the supply to remain steady.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Faylee Freir
Defining Harassment Slaver's Union
69
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 06:04:47 -
[129] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:"You mean to say you would actually want to harm those innocent boars?"
The acquisition of bacon is of the utmost importance. While I personally don't engage in much player vs boar action, it is necessary that some do in order for the supply to remain steady. Bacon, CSM XI! |
Anal Canal
The Conference Elite CODE.
954
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 06:48:59 -
[130] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Fanfest 2015 was awesome and I'll be going to Fanfest 2016 to join the fun. Looking at all the twitch streams I noticed one nice presentation by CCP Rise. Have a look at these 4 slides from this presentation : One, two, three and four. CCP Rise says : People who die play longer (Talking about new players in Eve) Since Marmites is one of the alliances who probably kills most of the players in high-sec (like RvB, Eve Uni, Forsaken Asylum, etc), should CCP be hiring us ? it will keep more newbro's in the game. Tora The Marmite Collective aka CCP's Isk Sink aka CCP Keep Newbro's in Game.
A couple of contests have been held regarding this...
Keep up the good work you!
Speaking of which, update.
The Artist Formerly Known As AC.
The terminal end of the digestive system.
The Best CSM Candidate
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CODE Agent AC
The Conference Elite CODE.
954
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 06:48:59 -
[131] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Fanfest 2015 was awesome and I'll be going to Fanfest 2016 to join the fun. Looking at all the twitch streams I noticed one nice presentation by CCP Rise. Have a look at these 4 slides from this presentation : One, two, three and four. CCP Rise says : People who die play longer (Talking about new players in Eve) Since Marmites is one of the alliances who probably kills most of the players in high-sec (like RvB, Eve Uni, Forsaken Asylum, etc), should CCP be hiring us ? it will keep more newbro's in the game. Tora The Marmite Collective aka CCP's Isk Sink aka CCP Keep Newbro's in Game.
A couple of contests have been held regarding this...
Keep up the good work you!
Speaking of which, update.
The Artist Formerly Known As AC.
The terminal end of the digestive system.
The Best CSM Candidate
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Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
39
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Posted - 2015.03.25 08:59:52 -
[132] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please. Ganking people. White knighting gankers. War decs between evenly matched corps. Being the underdog in high sec wars (got a thing for being the underdog). Ninjaing. Baiting ninjas into using and losing shinies. Growing a corp from the ground up. Destroying rival corps through various nefarious activities. Ratting. NO WAIT... scratch the last one
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
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Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
40
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Posted - 2015.03.25 09:30:15 -
[133] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec.
No. In a spaceship PVP game, we should be allowed to shoot spaceships where ever we want. This delusion that High-Sec is to be 100% safe is just silly, and moronic. You want safe, go play another game. Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there. Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong
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Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
43
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 09:36:04 -
[134] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:"You mean to say you would actually want to harm those innocent boars?"
The acquisition of bacon is of the utmost importance. While I personally don't engage in much player vs boar action, it is necessary that some do in order for the supply to remain steady. I concur. As with spice, 'the bacon must flow'
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Fybs
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
330
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 10:03:52 -
[135] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Lorelei Ierendi wrote:Just wanting to sit in High Sec does not make you a coward. There are lots of fun things to do there.
Give two examples, please.
1) Being a High Sec Merc.
2) Being a High Sec Merc in my Corp.
Don't confuse kindness with weakness.
Beware the hand of Fybs.
Corp Advert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Je8JdIi8g&feature=youtu.be
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
744
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 11:41:58 -
[136] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: No Veers just doesn't buy into your delusional rhetoric that chasing people into npc corps and making highsec socially isolated and boring is somehow good for the game. Good for some lame giggles - sure...good for actually fostering multiplayer play? No way, Jose. But as a smart man once said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
what quote best approximates "this idiot isn't going to accept he has been wrong for years merely because the data unambiguiously proves it, because he is literally not smart enough to realize it's all over" |
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1189
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 11:49:46 -
[137] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote: what quote best approximates "this idiot isn't going to accept he has been wrong for years merely because the data unambiguiously proves it, because he is literally not smart enough to realize it's all over"
This one, spot on:
EvilweaselFinance wrote: this idiot isn't going to accept he has been wrong for years merely because the data unambiguiously proves it, because he is literally not smart enough to realize it's all over
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
Zepher Helen Hawat
ULTRAMAR SECURITIES
45
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 11:52:25 -
[138] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec.
No. In a spaceship PVP game, we should be allowed to shoot spaceships where ever we want. This delusion that High-Sec is to be 100% safe is just silly, and moronic. You want safe, go play another game. Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there.
Rookie systems are off limits for a reason, and I think no one dis agrees with that. The rest of Hi-sec though is fair game. There are enough factors in place which make it difficult enough as it is for PVP there. No need to take it away completely just because of a few whiners that can't handle lose.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1212
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 11:55:57 -
[139] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:more sex...ok, no sex......., lies, and video footage
You're still here?
Does CCP need to get a restraining order against you or something?
There are laws against online stalkers, even in Iceland.
Don't forget to biomass when you unsub, and remember, I get all your stuff.
Toodles.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
45
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 12:12:56 -
[140] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:more sex...ok, no sex......., lies, and video footage You're still here? Does CCP need to get a restraining order against you or something? There are laws against online stalkers, even in Iceland. Don't forget to biomass when you unsub, and remember, I get all your stuff. Toodles. NO. Veers unsubbing would be a blow to us all. All this opposition to him has galvanized him to continue on in spite of us. Don't you see veers is our proven case study that player harassment/involvement=retention
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Piz Caldera
Saubaer Schweinepriester
27
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 12:27:01 -
[141] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote: should CCP be hiring us ?
Agent Tora, you and Marmites help to make Eve a better place, thanks to you. And even the Agents from CCP are confirming the truth, which is out there. The truth is, Code always win!
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
137
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 12:31:41 -
[142] - Quote
Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec.
No. In a spaceship PVP game, we should be allowed to shoot spaceships where ever we want. This delusion that High-Sec is to be 100% safe is just silly, and moronic. You want safe, go play another game. Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there. Rookie systems are off limits for a reason, and I think no one dis agrees with that. The rest of Hi-sec though is fair game. There are enough factors in place which make it difficult enough as it is for PVP there. No need to take it away completely just because of a few whiners that can't handle lose.
I disagree.
If we are going to retain them, we have to get to them in the first 15 days. I would have said noob training systems are early enough... But may have to travel to the spawn systems too if we are going to properly care for them.
You are the one that's forcing them to quit from neglect and boredom. I always entertain my noobs. No |
Revis Owen
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
134
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 14:10:40 -
[143] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there.
No, highsec is designed merely to have NPC's do a job that is done by players in non-highsec: reactively impose a consequence for unsanctioned acts. And, Concord only takes your ship. They don't kill you or put you in jail. Eve is a place of consequences, not of laws. The only difference between areas of Eve in that regard is whether NPC's or the controlling players mete out the consequences.
And there's all kinds of non-consensual PvP in highsec that Concord doesn't "criminalize".
You really are ignorant about what you talk about.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2147
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 14:31:35 -
[144] - Quote
Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:Rookie systems are off limits for a reason, and I think no one dis agrees with that. The rest of Hi-sec though is fair game. There are enough factors in place which make it difficult enough as it is for PVP there. No need to take it away completely just because of a few whiners that can't handle lose. Rookie systems are not off limit for wars. We had these discussions a few time with CCP (including apologies etc).
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
admiral root
Red Galaxy
2551
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 14:47:50 -
[145] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: No Veers just doesn't buy into your delusional rhetoric that chasing people into npc corps and making highsec socially isolated and boring is somehow good for the game. Good for some lame giggles - sure...good for actually fostering multiplayer play? No way, Jose. But as a smart man once said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
what quote best approximates "this idiot isn't going to accept he has been wrong for years merely because the data unambiguiously proves it, because he is literally not smart enough to realize it's all over"
How about: Veers, your village called - they want you back.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
|
Revis Owen
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
136
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 17:22:07 -
[146] - Quote
Boy howdy! With this recent statistical debunking of carebear myths, CCP joins the elite groups generating massive carebear tears and butthurt.
Welcome to the club, CCP!
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
|
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1031
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 17:52:46 -
[147] - Quote
Revis Owen wrote:Boy howdy! With this recent statistical debunking of carebear myths, CCP joins the elite groups generating massive carebear tears and butthurt.
Welcome to the club, CCP!
Hehehe, club. Like clubbing baby seals. I see what you didn't do intentionally there. |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
124
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 18:27:45 -
[148] - Quote
Just going to drop this in here. TLDR: Correlation does not imply causation |
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1192
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 18:59:54 -
[149] - Quote
Jack Hayson wrote:Just going to drop this in here. TLDR: Correlation does not imply causation
I see your off topic post and raise you this TLDR: You don't make sense and will end up with a goat.
Very nice link you found, too bad it has nothing to do with the players who get ganked staying longer and being 200% more awesome than the wow diva's crying to nerf my boats.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
Masao Kurata
Z List
202
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 19:58:51 -
[150] - Quote
Okay devil's advocate time: some of the new players who get ganked are ganked because it was very profitable to do so, meaning that they have unusual wealth for a new player, probably from plexing, showing an increased willingness to give CCP money, e.g. for subbing. The stats don't just show a get ganked -> stay in EVE causal link.
But almost everyone who stuck around has a positive story to tell that starts with adversity, and rats don't provide that. |
|
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1032
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 20:18:44 -
[151] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Okay devil's advocate time: some of the new players who get ganked are ganked because it was very profitable to do so, meaning that they have unusual wealth for a new player, probably from plexing, showing an increased willingness to give CCP money, e.g. for subbing. The stats don't just show a get ganked -> stay in EVE causal link.
But almost everyone who stuck around has a positive story to tell that starts with adversity, and rats don't provide that.
Ganking new players is never profitable unless they fill a t1 hauler full of crap they bought with the isk they got from selling PLEX.
Ganking freighters is profitable. New players tend not to fly freighters. Ganking anything other than freighters you are lucky to break even if you scoop loot and salvage, or if you're just VERY picky about targets. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
140
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 20:25:13 -
[152] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Okay devil's advocate time: some of the new players who get ganked are ganked because it was very profitable to do so, meaning that they have unusual wealth for a new player, probably from plexing, showing an increased willingness to give CCP money, e.g. for subbing. The stats don't just show a get ganked -> stay in EVE causal link.
But almost everyone who stuck around has a positive story to tell that starts with adversity, and rats don't provide that.
Imagine Eve single player. Would you or anyone else play it?
In this sandbox, PVE is the sand. We have to interact with it, but it's just sand.
When you make a sand castle and I try to kick it over, we both feel something. That makes it interesting.
The game is in the interactions between real people. Preventing noobs from having meaningful or interesting interactions with other players is like making them play by themselves in the sandbox. No wonder they quit. They pay to play and get 2 weeks of doing boring stuff that's hard to learn.
The problem isn't that noobs are losing ships. The problem is that we think noobs losing ships is a problem. It is a core game function. It is an inevitable outcome of "fun." |
Masao Kurata
Z List
202
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 20:33:16 -
[153] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Okay devil's advocate time: some of the new players who get ganked are ganked because it was very profitable to do so, meaning that they have unusual wealth for a new player, probably from plexing, showing an increased willingness to give CCP money, e.g. for subbing. The stats don't just show a get ganked -> stay in EVE causal link.
But almost everyone who stuck around has a positive story to tell that starts with adversity, and rats don't provide that. Ganking new players is never profitable unless they fill a t1 hauler full of crap they bought with the isk they got from selling PLEX..
That's the scenario I was talking about, although not necessarily a T1 hauler. Shuttles full of PLEX, frigates with 1000x their value in fittings...
|
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1032
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 20:34:43 -
[154] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Imagine Eve single player. Would you or anyone else play it?
Hell no. |
Revis Owen
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
140
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:11:55 -
[155] - Quote
Jack Hayson wrote:Correlation does not imply causation
The CCP study being discussed in this thread is not a correlational analysis. It is a demographic breakdown. Your comment is completely irrelevant.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Highsec Operations Permit, please contact me for issuance.
|
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1034
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:20:41 -
[156] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:Ganking new players is never profitable unless they fill a t1 hauler full of crap they bought with the isk they got from selling PLEX.. That's the scenario I was talking about, although not necessarily a T1 hauler. Shuttles full of PLEX, frigates with 1000x their value in fittings... Just to be clear this isn't hypothetical, I have retained a fair few new players who did this.
New players who do that are idiots and are bad for the game anyways. (Good for ganker wallets though.)
At least RMTer's know what they are doing and the risks involved, even if they are worse than scum. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2269
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:36:28 -
[157] - Quote
Veers, you should totally attend our NPSI roam.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
291
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:48:52 -
[158] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Presumably CCP means that players who experience PvP combat where they have a chance of winning and inflicting real losses on other other side. Not getting curbstompped by hopelessly better funded, equipped, skilled, and numbed marmite campers. What you see is what you get. They made the same wrong assumptions as you did, but were man enough to admit it after proper research. Wars and Ganking are good for Eve..... Let's buff it and make Eve an even better place. \\ // http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/639617004 - Starts at 3:15 getting smashed up by marmite gatecampers who dock up at the first sign of a fair fight is certainly not good for eve. And it seems that the CSM vote tallies confirmed that.
Is this something you've heard? Last I checked you had no clue about PvP nor do you partake in such fun. If you are going to try to insult someone, do it from a position of knowledge and experience..not hearsay and rhetoric.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 01:49:20 -
[159] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. Except that the ones who get ganked and curb stomped by Marmite have the highest retention rates. Which makes the rest of your statement an obvious lie.
Please show us your data. Here's my data .. sadly anecdotal .. every indy/carebear looking character I see in space belongs to a corp/alliance that is or was recently dec'ed by Marmite, Deadly Fingertips and the like. This might be a good lesson in the realities of EVE, but it might also be a lesson that they should just go back to WoW. After all the wimps go back to WoW,who will you fight? Not each other, there seems to be a rule against that.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
560
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 02:18:58 -
[160] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec.
No. In a spaceship PVP game, we should be allowed to shoot spaceships where ever we want. This delusion that High-Sec is to be 100% safe is just silly, and moronic. You want safe, go play another game. Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there. Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong
completely false, of course. No way to wardecc npc or 1 man corps...no payment to concord will let you shoot at me...only way is by committing a crime. |
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
51
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 02:50:17 -
[161] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
No one is killing your game. Stop with the hysterical reactions...even if somehow all nonconsensual PvP was removed from highsec (which no one is contemplating) you would still be more than welcome to go shoot people in nullsec.
No. In a spaceship PVP game, we should be allowed to shoot spaceships where ever we want. This delusion that High-Sec is to be 100% safe is just silly, and moronic. You want safe, go play another game. Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there. Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong completely false, of course. No way to wardecc npc or 1 man corps...no payment to concord will let you shoot at me...only way is by committing a crime.
Please highlight in the above quote what exactly that was a rebuttal against?
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
560
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 03:32:02 -
[162] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong
Please highlight in the above quote what exactly that was a rebuttal against?
The part about neglecting to bribe concord, as if as long as you pay the fee highsec PvP is 100% allowed. Which is completely belied by the ability to be in an NPC corp, where no bribe to facilitate PvP is possible - the only way to engage in it is through criminal activity. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
142
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 03:36:01 -
[163] - Quote
Drez Arthie wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The problem with Eve retention is the fact that new players drift into the game without any sense of direction or opportunity. No one leads them to incursions, L4s, manufacturing, etc... Their main experience is trying to make a mining corp, getting curbstomped by marmite, and quitting the game. Except that the ones who get ganked and curb stomped by Marmite have the highest retention rates. Which makes the rest of your statement an obvious lie. Please show us your data. Here's my data .. sadly anecdotal .. every indy/carebear looking character I see in space belongs to a corp/alliance that is or was recently dec'ed by Marmite, Deadly Fingertips and the like. This might be a good lesson in the realities of EVE, but it might also be a lesson that they should just go back to WoW. After all the wimps go back to WoW,who will you fight? Not each other, there seems to be a rule against that.
First, I'm a little thrown off by the idea of anecdotal data. But as you are from the center for advanced studies, I'm going to assume that term is legit.
The data isn't mine, it's in a study published by CCP in which they reviewed 80,000 accounts and determined that getting destroyed (presumably by nonconsensual pvp) in the first 15 days of playing makes a newbro substantially more likely to stick with the game.
The discussion here is 2 parts: 1) why have we been changing all the rules to prevent something that is both fun for us and profitable for CCP. 2) what should be done about it?
I personally think Veers was on the right path about that collaborative highsec thing.
There is absolutely no way the Marmites can pop every noob in his first 15 days. Resource limitations and time are a very real problem.
I think we all need to pull together to make this happen. If I may be so bold, I would dub this program "no noob left behind".
If CCP rules catch up to times on this important issue, I hope we can all pull together and make this a reality.
We have to do this for the children... |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
560
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 03:41:03 -
[164] - Quote
All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
142
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 03:43:40 -
[165] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior.
Which is why we need can flipping too.
I absolutely agree with you, there is no way the Marmites can do it alone!
No noob left behind! Let's lead the collaboration, Veers! |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
560
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 03:45:59 -
[166] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior. Which is why we need can flipping too. I absolutely agree with you, there is no way the Marmites can do it alone! No noob left behind! Let's lead the collaboration, Veers!
Yes, everyone knows about the old eve, where new players were exposed to nonstop griefing and curbstomping by bittervets. Guess what? It was bad for business, bad for new player retention, and got chucked out the window. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
142
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 03:49:32 -
[167] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior. Which is why we need can flipping too. I absolutely agree with you, there is no way the Marmites can do it alone! No noob left behind! Let's lead the collaboration, Veers! Yes, everyone knows about the old eve, where new players were exposed to nonstop griefing and curbstomping by bittervets. Guess what? It was bad for business, bad for new player retention, and got chucked out the window.
Wait, what? Why did you change your mind? I thought you wanted to collaborate?
What about the 80,000 person study...? It said we need to do this for the children.
Don't you like children, Veers? |
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
51
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 04:29:24 -
[168] - Quote
Lets skip back a little here.
Veers Belvar wrote:
Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there.
To which I rebutted by saying
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong
Then suddenly 'Highsec' became Veers Belvar?
That about sums it up no?
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
560
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 04:39:00 -
[169] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Lets skip back a little here. Veers Belvar wrote:
Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there.
To which I rebutted by saying Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong
Then suddenly 'Highsec' became Veers Belvar? That about sums it up no?
The point is that the game is already designed to make it impossible to shoot at you in highsec without concord intervention UNLESS you voluntarily elect to join a player corp and not drop when wardecced. There is no general consequence free nonconsensual pvp by paying concord off. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
51
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 04:53:27 -
[170] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Lets skip back a little here. Veers Belvar wrote:
Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there.
To which I rebutted by saying Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong
Then suddenly 'Highsec' became Veers Belvar? That about sums it up no? The point is that the game is already designed to make it impossible to shoot at you in highsec without concord intervention UNLESS you voluntarily elect to join a player corp and not drop when wardecced. There is no general consequence free nonconsensual pvp by paying concord off.
So what you really meant to say was in Highsec Concord will avenge you if and only if you are not agressed by a wardeccer at war with you, Not killed by somebody inside your corp (if that option is on), don't somehow enter into a 5 minute limited engagement timer making you legal to be shot at or are not already suspect yourself
Either that or it was NaNaNa you can't get me or (and I think this the more likely option) You were creating content for THIS
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Such Blogging
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|
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Faylee Freir
Defining Harassment Slaver's Union
74
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 06:44:42 -
[171] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior. You aren't telling the whole truth here... People will hide in their own trash 1-man corps regardless if marmites or any other group sends wardecs their way. Let's be honest here: a LOT of people want to be left alone in their own little bubble and play their game as safe and tax free as possible. That is fine with me (to a certain degree) but at some point the sandbox kicks in and is going to remind that risk adverse loner that he is playing eve with other people weather he wants to face it or not. Sure the guy playing alone is making money for CCP, but what is he doing socially to make this game grow for the better? Veers, you need a dose of reality. |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2164
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 07:49:44 -
[172] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The part about neglecting to bribe concord, as if as long as you pay the fee highsec PvP is 100% allowed. Which is completely belied by the ability to be in an NPC corp, where no bribe to facilitate PvP is possible - the only way to engage in it is through criminal activity. I agree with Veers, we should be able to war dec the NPC's too. Even if its at a higher rate than other normal alliances.
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
296
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 08:02:16 -
[173] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior.
Completely untrue. You should be more specific in your assessment of the situation there Veers. I believe the correct way to say it is Marmite is effective at making YOU drop corp and stick to npc/1 man corps. But...let's be fair here...any corp that decs you will cause you to drop corp. I have tested this theory on more than one occasion..either by me, an alt, or a friend. THIS is what the problem is. CCP has allowed the risk averse to to dodge the inevitable in a game that is based around inevitable space conflicts.
There are ways to survive a war with a foe that is larger or better than you....and I mean more than just dropping corp, hiding in station, not logging on, or doing your business with an alt for the duration. I shouldn't have to spell it out for you. If you do not know what these things are, that is a problem..and exactly why the risk averse continuously have issues with wars and ganking. Step up and learn the game.
TBH, until you have stepped into the shoes of a PvPer and actually done something, you really don't have a right to complain about it imo. It does not make someone a "hero" to try to be an advocate for or speak against something they know nothing about. In fact, it makes one look foolish. It's easy to point fingers and blame others..but the real blame lies on yourself. The question is, will you keep running and blaming others...or will you take responsibility for your own mistakes and do something about it. hmmm?
....and this isn't just directed at you...
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1195
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 08:03:28 -
[174] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The part about neglecting to bribe concord, as if as long as you pay the fee highsec PvP is 100% allowed. Which is completely belied by the ability to be in an NPC corp, where no bribe to facilitate PvP is possible - the only way to engage in it is through criminal activity. I agree with Veers, we should be able to war dec the NPC's too. Even if its at a higher rate than other normal alliances.
See... I just had an eppi... epafi... fipanifi... GREAT IDEA thanks to you two!
Since all carebears are allowed to shoot NPC's all day, it's only logical that all players are allowed to shoot NPC's and people in NPC corps?! Only a player corp get's you CONCORD retribution unless someone bribed them, than you are on your own.
^^ It's maybe a bit rough but I think this is a diamond in the making. I welcome the community's feedback.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
Faylee Freir
Defining Harassment Slaver's Union
78
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 08:10:26 -
[175] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior. Completely untrue. You should be more specific in your assessment of the situation there Veers. I believe the correct way to say it is Marmite is effective at making YOU drop corp and stick to npc/1 man corps. But...let's be fair here...any corp that decs you will cause you to drop corp. I have tested this theory on more than one occasion..either by me, an alt, or a friend. THIS is what the problem is. CCP has allowed the risk averse to to dodge the inevitable in a game that is based around inevitable space conflicts. There are ways to survive a war with a foe that is larger or better than you....and I mean more than just dropping corp, hiding in station, not logging on, or doing your business with an alt for the duration. I shouldn't have to spell it out for you. If you do not know what these things are, that is a problem..and exactly why the risk averse continuously have issues with wars and ganking. Step up and learn the game. TBH, until you have stepped into the shoes of a PvPer and actually done something, you really don't have a right to complain about it imo. It does not make someone a "hero" to try to be an advocate for or speak against something they know nothing about. In fact, it makes one look foolish. It's easy to point fingers and blame others..but the real blame lies on yourself. The question is, will you keep running and blaming others...or will you take responsibility for your own mistakes and do something about it. hmmm? ....and this isn't just directed at you... Bingo! Why should anyone have a free exit out of a war when a group pays a minimum of 50m? I agree the defender should always have options, but folding your corp over is surrendering... Let's attach hefty fees to closing a corp during war. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
55
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 09:36:00 -
[176] - Quote
So to get us back on topic. I call a vote.
All those in favour of veers spearheading the 'No NewBro Left Behind' initiative?
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|
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
55
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 09:42:44 -
[177] - Quote
/me Raises Hand
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2167
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 10:07:39 -
[178] - Quote
Let's not make this another Veers post. This griefer has derailed enough good posts.
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
57
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 10:19:04 -
[179] - Quote
This is about the children tho tora. Fine fine. Either way if 'somebody' headed up this I would donate time and ammo towards it. I've killed many newbros then convoed replaced ship and given advise/guidance. It's quite rewarding I hope for both parties.
Very entertaining
Much content
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Such Blogging
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|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
154
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 11:49:00 -
[180] - Quote
I think Veers flip-flops too much on important issues.
I think he was just telling me what I wanted to hear for my support. I feel a little betrayed, in a way.
Still, someone has to lead this. It's too important to fail.
NO NEWBRO LEFT BEHIND |
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
61
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 12:07:43 -
[181] - Quote
Well sir you have my albeit limited support. I'd volunteer but keeping all my alts in line is a full time job as is...
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|
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1451
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 14:11:50 -
[182] - Quote
Veers is Veers. Activate to double the size of any threadnaught he disagrees with. His views are set in stone and no amount of common sense, logic, facts, or persuasion will change that. I've tried. I really have. He's a smart dude, but I keep getting the feeling that he's the product of a gated community and has been spoon fed propaganda his entire life. If this is so, that kind of indoctrination is terribly hard to break, and he himself may break before accepting that his worldview up to this point was based on flawed assumptions. Don't hate him, just encourage him by whatever means to discover that there is fun in this game and it's not what he's been doing.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
|
Super Perforator
New Order Logistics CODE.
54
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 17:42:14 -
[183] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Veers is Veers. Don't hate him, just encourage him.
I just want to say, Veers alone made me think about what I am doing and why. It is good to think about it, now and again.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5610165#post5610165
Praise James!
CODE. Diplo
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
156
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 18:25:11 -
[184] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Veers is Veers. Activate to double the size of any threadnaught he disagrees with. His views are set in stone and no amount of common sense, logic, facts, or persuasion will change that. I've tried. I really have. He's a smart dude, but I keep getting the feeling that he's the product of a gated community and has been spoon fed propaganda his entire life. If this is so, that kind of indoctrination is terribly hard to break, and he himself may break before accepting that his worldview up to this point was based on flawed assumptions. Don't hate him, just encourage him by whatever means to discover that there is fun in this game and it's not what he's been doing.
I bet I could convert him.
The sell is not on the forums though. I bet he would be on-board with killing some can flippers or marmite guys. If there are some baiters he knows he wants to kill perhaps, we could find them and give them a surprise.
We could teach him to pvp as a white knight against evil.
That's how I started out... And that's why I started in high sec.
I wanted to kill those nasty flippers who are curbstomping noobs.
I never lost the protective view of noobs, though I've popped quite a few. (I had one get me one night in Akia (I was flying a velator, and he kept throwing my cans) and you would think he won the Super Bowl). I was proud of him.
The problem comes after you taste blood and realize the nasty flippers are nice guys. I then lost sight of good vs evil and just saw it as a game.
Hard to hold onto that world view once you've seen behind the curtain.
Veers, if you have a target list of pvp'ers who deserve to be curb stomped let me know. We can probably go have some laughs at their experience. You want to see behind the curtain, don't you?
If nothing else, I can give you a look at how to win against us.
Here is a tutorial I wrote a while back to start you. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1037
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 18:45:22 -
[185] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote: I bet I could convert him.
Good luck. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
156
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 18:50:22 -
[186] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote: I bet I could convert him.
Good luck.
We're coming for you Tengu.... As soon as I find him and talk him into it.
Mo and Veers vs. Marmites... What could go wrong?
|
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
225
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 20:37:18 -
[187] - Quote
There will never be a time when wardecers have enough free kills to satiate them.
There will never be a time when HiSecers feel truly safe enough to stop complaining.
Ya'll should drink a tall cool glass of Orange Juice and come on down to to Low or NPC null. No rules, just right.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1037
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 20:49:56 -
[188] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:There will never be a time when wardecers have enough free kills to satiate them.
There will never be a time when HiSecers feel truly safe enough to stop complaining.
Ya'll should drink a tall cool glass of Orange Juice and come on down to to Low or NPC null. No rules, just right.
Been there, got bored and came back. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1037
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 20:51:28 -
[189] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote: I bet I could convert him.
Good luck. We're coming for you Tengu.... As soon as I find him and talk him into it. Mo and Veers vs. Marmites... What could go wrong? Maybe I'll bring my latest deep null fit: the armor rep heavy missile raven with empty mid slots and a tractor beam. I love shopping in null. No idea how these people live like this.
Make sure to fit that meta 1 active targeting system too, and a propulsion rig to fill that last rig slot. I know what you mean, but lucky for me the 0.0 corp I was in had a Jita shopping web app, you'd make a shopping list, send isk to the handler, he'd shop for you and JF it out. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
157
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 21:33:26 -
[190] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote: I bet I could convert him.
Good luck. We're coming for you Tengu.... As soon as I find him and talk him into it. Mo and Veers vs. Marmites... What could go wrong? Maybe I'll bring my latest deep null fit: the armor rep heavy missile raven with empty mid slots and a tractor beam. I love shopping in null. No idea how these people live like this. Make sure to fit that meta 1 active targeting system too, and a propulsion rig to fill that last rig slot. I know what you mean, but lucky for me the 0.0 corp I was in had a Jita shopping web app, you'd make a shopping list, send isk to the handler, he'd shop for you and JF it out.
I would definitely have the targeting module if they weren't so hard to come by.
It certainly wouldn't hurt this build.
I miss the good old days. |
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
565
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 02:57:51 -
[191] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Veers is Veers. Activate to double the size of any threadnaught he disagrees with. His views are set in stone and no amount of common sense, logic, facts, or persuasion will change that. I've tried. I really have. He's a smart dude, but I keep getting the feeling that he's the product of a gated community and has been spoon fed propaganda his entire life. If this is so, that kind of indoctrination is terribly hard to break, and he himself may break before accepting that his worldview up to this point was based on flawed assumptions. Don't hate him, just encourage him by whatever means to discover that there is fun in this game and it's not what he's been doing. I bet I could convert him. The sell is not on the forums though. I bet he would be on-board with killing some can flippers or marmite guys. If there are some baiters he knows he wants to kill perhaps, we could find them and give them a surprise. We could teach him to pvp as a white knight against evil. That's how I started out... And that's why I started in high sec. I wanted to kill those nasty flippers who are curbstomping noobs. I never lost the protective view of noobs, though I've popped quite a few. (I had one get me one night in Akia (I was flying a velator, and he kept throwing my cans) and you would think he won the Super Bowl). I was proud of him. The problem comes after you taste blood and realize the nasty flippers are nice guys. I then lost sight of good vs evil and just saw it as a game. Hard to hold onto that world view once you've seen behind the curtain. Veers, if you have a target list of pvp'ers who deserve to be curb stomped let me know. We can probably go have some laughs at their expense. You want to see behind the curtain, don't you? If nothing else, I can give you a look at how to win against us. Here is a tutorial I wrote a while back to start you. Read it, if you don't think I can help you after that I'll be surprised. Let's go kill some clowns. We'll just do people who deserve it. I can teach you to hunt and stage the kill.
I'm not interested in curbstomping anyone. I would like to see highsec mechanics that encourage social interaction and the formation of corporations rather than actively discourage that.
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
63
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 04:53:57 -
[192] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
I'm not interested in curbstomping anyone. I would like to see highsec mechanics that encourage social interaction and the formation of corporations rather than actively discourage that.
Veers he is inviting you to do something with him... if thats not social interaction then I'm not sure what is...
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
|
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1199
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 06:27:13 -
[193] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
I'm not interested in curbstomping anyone. I would like to see highsec mechanics that encourage social interaction and the formation of corporations rather than actively discourage that.
Veers he is inviting you to do something with him... if thats not social interaction then I'm not sure what is...
You don't speek his language Noragen, let me translate;
I'm not interested in : I'm waaaay to scared for I would like to see : I don't want to do anything but whine on the forums to get highsec mechanics : nerfs to everyone but me social interaction : Solo play corporations : Bot mining fleets actively discourage that : The super unique experience we can enjoy now.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
64
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 08:26:48 -
[194] - Quote
Jeeze tora I can feel your glare all the way over here. So back on topic did this info surprise anybody? Personally I fell in love with wormholes and high sec warfare cause I lost ships to both places in my first week of playing. Although to be fair the wormhole one they let me go and even warped me to the entrance
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|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2174
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 08:27:32 -
[195] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Mo and Veers vs. Marmites... What could go wrong? No chance, you know The Somali Coastguard is part of Marmites .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Je8JdIi8g
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2174
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 08:30:40 -
[196] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Ya'll should drink a tall cool glass of Orange Juice and come on down to to Low or NPC null. No rules, just right. Who says we arent there already ? Low sec is not my thing (sec status, kill rights, gate guns), but null-sec and wh-space are.
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
64
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 09:18:56 -
[197] - Quote
I always suspected that was fybs irl
Very entertaining
Much content
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Such Blogging
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|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2178
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 10:10:03 -
[198] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I'm not interested in curbstomping anyone. I would like to see highsec mechanics that encourage social interaction and the formation of corporations rather than actively discourage that.
HTFU
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
Fybs
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
334
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 10:21:45 -
[199] - Quote
Tora randomly linking my corp ad <3
@ Noragen
hurry up and get back here. I think it's time to add another page to that blog. I haven't tasted Merc blood for awhile
Don't confuse kindness with weakness.
Beware the hand of Fybs.
Corp Advert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Je8JdIi8g&feature=youtu.be
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
157
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 13:21:02 -
[200] - Quote
What if I bring my new raven build, eh? What then?
Did I mention 3 people told me it's good in fleets.
|
|
Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
229
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 16:46:39 -
[201] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:There will never be a time when wardecers have enough free kills to satiate them.
There will never be a time when HiSecers feel truly safe enough to stop complaining.
Ya'll should drink a tall cool glass of Orange Juice and come on down to to Low or NPC null. No rules, just right. Been there, got bored and came back.
Then you were obviously Doing It Wrong.
Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
|
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
521
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 16:57:34 -
[202] - Quote
Bored in lowsec? What are these preposterous words I hear.
There are all our dominion
Bookmarks in overview ~ Fleet improvements
|
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1041
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 17:39:58 -
[203] - Quote
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:There will never be a time when wardecers have enough free kills to satiate them.
There will never be a time when HiSecers feel truly safe enough to stop complaining.
Ya'll should drink a tall cool glass of Orange Juice and come on down to to Low or NPC null. No rules, just right. Been there, got bored and came back. Then you were obviously Doing It Wrong.
The low sec probably, and I fully intend to give it another chance. This time I'll probably do it with a corp. I had fun in wormholes and intend to live there again at some point in the future.
As for nullsec it was the Sov mechanics that killed it for me. Couple that with my odd and sporadic availability 0.0 was no fun at all, with bursts of fantastic levels of excitement. Once the new Sov mechanics come in I fully intend to move my alt back to null. Not sure where yet, I'm sure our Goon overlords would have me, but at the same time it might be more fun to join up with some underdogs and fight a giant. We'll have to see.
All that being said, Tengu himself will probably always be in HS causing trouble. There's always something to do. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
165
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 18:49:42 -
[204] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Veers is Veers. Activate to double the size of any threadnaught he disagrees with. His views are set in stone and no amount of common sense, logic, facts, or persuasion will change that. I've tried. I really have. He's a smart dude, but I keep getting the feeling that he's the product of a gated community and has been spoon fed propaganda his entire life. If this is so, that kind of indoctrination is terribly hard to break, and he himself may break before accepting that his worldview up to this point was based on flawed assumptions. Don't hate him, just encourage him by whatever means to discover that there is fun in this game and it's not what he's been doing. I bet I could convert him. The sell is not on the forums though. I bet he would be on-board with killing some can flippers or marmite guys. If there are some baiters he knows he wants to kill perhaps, we could find them and give them a surprise. We could teach him to pvp as a white knight against evil. That's how I started out... And that's why I started in high sec. I wanted to kill those nasty flippers who are curbstomping noobs. I never lost the protective view of noobs, though I've popped quite a few. (I had one get me one night in Akia (I was flying a velator, and he kept throwing my cans) and you would think he won the Super Bowl). I was proud of him. The problem comes after you taste blood and realize the nasty flippers are nice guys. I then lost sight of good vs evil and just saw it as a game. Hard to hold onto that world view once you've seen behind the curtain. Veers, if you have a target list of pvp'ers who deserve to be curb stomped let me know. We can probably go have some laughs at their expense. You want to see behind the curtain, don't you? If nothing else, I can give you a look at how to win against us. Here is a tutorial I wrote a while back to start you. Read it, if you don't think I can help you after that I'll be surprised. Let's go kill some clowns. We'll just do people who deserve it. I can teach you to hunt and stage the kill. I'm not interested in curbstomping anyone. I would like to see highsec mechanics that encourage social interaction and the formation of corporations rather than actively discourage that.
Come on, Can't you think of even one pirate you would like to kill? There is always someone who has it coming. Find me in game if you prefer.
Even if you don't want to kill anyone, I'd be willing to give you a full course of instruction on how fights and wardecs are won. If nothing else, you could tell noobs how to kill griefers.
The knowledge I'm offering to share has value. More than one corp has paid me to consult over the years.
I'd train you at no risk or cost to yourself. What do you say? Mo
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
565
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 23:05:23 -
[205] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Come on, Can't you think of even one pirate you would like to kill? There is always someone who has it coming. Find me in game if you prefer.
Even if you don't want to kill anyone, I'd be willing to give you a full course of instruction on how fights and wardecs are won. If nothing else, you could tell noobs how to kill griefers.
The knowledge I'm offering to share has value. More than one corp has paid me to consult over the years.
I'd train you at no risk or cost to yourself. What do you say? Mo
Not interested in killing anyone. Would prefer better mechanics that didn't encourage marmite mass wardeccing with neither rhyme nor reason. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
69
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 23:17:46 -
[206] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Come on, Can't you think of even one pirate you would like to kill? There is always someone who has it coming. Find me in game if you prefer.
Even if you don't want to kill anyone, I'd be willing to give you a full course of instruction on how fights and wardecs are won. If nothing else, you could tell noobs how to kill griefers.
The knowledge I'm offering to share has value. More than one corp has paid me to consult over the years.
I'd train you at no risk or cost to yourself. What do you say? Mo
Not interested in killing anyone. Would prefer better mechanics that didn't encourage marmite mass wardeccing with neither rhyme nor reason. Marmite rarely wardecs without rhyme or reason. Hell I've been on coms when Tora starts a wardeccing spree and I can tell you he is busting out a rhyme for each 1
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23375
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 23:19:39 -
[207] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Not interested in killing anyone. Would prefer better mechanics that didn't encourage marmite mass wardeccing with neither rhyme nor reason. One of the reasons Marmite and the like wardec multiple corps at once is the drop/remake corp mechanic you're so fond of using.
They have to dec multiple corps to have something to shoot at when nullsec folk aren't being stupid in highsec.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
298
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 00:32:10 -
[208] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Come on, Can't you think of even one pirate you would like to kill? There is always someone who has it coming. Find me in game if you prefer.
Even if you don't want to kill anyone, I'd be willing to give you a full course of instruction on how fights and wardecs are won. If nothing else, you could tell noobs how to kill griefers.
The knowledge I'm offering to share has value. More than one corp has paid me to consult over the years.
I'd train you at no risk or cost to yourself. What do you say? Mo
Not interested in killing anyone. Would prefer better mechanics that didn't encourage marmite mass wardeccing with neither rhyme nor reason.
Awww...really? So you're saying you wouldn't even take a shot at little old me if the opportunity presented itself...say if I were suspect right in front of you? I know deep down the thought would cross your mind. You'd only need to push the button.
You should take Mo up on his offer to teach you. You may learn something...and you may actually have fun. Yes Veers, there is much to learn. You may not accept it...but you do not know everything.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
166
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 01:04:51 -
[209] - Quote
Veers, With the knowledge I offer, you could make a difference for good. Given the choice, are you not morally obligated to do good?
You know an easy way to prevent war decs? Stomp anyone who decs you.
I'm just saying, you don't have to be an aggressor, Mo
"The best defense is a good offense" - Mahatma Gandhi |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1459
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 02:58:31 -
[210] - Quote
"The best defense is a good offense" - Mahatma Gandhi
I thought that was Mel, the cook on 'Alice'?
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
|
|
Mobadder Thworst
Perkone Caldari State
170
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 02:09:29 -
[211] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:"The best defense is a good offense" - Mahatma Gandhi
I thought that was Mel, the cook on 'Alice'?
Almost hard to guess which said it first... |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
565
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 04:53:07 -
[212] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Not interested in killing anyone. Would prefer better mechanics that didn't encourage marmite mass wardeccing with neither rhyme nor reason. One of the reasons Marmite and the like wardec multiple corps at once is the drop/remake corp mechanic you're so fond of using. They have to dec multiple corps to have something to shoot at when nullsec folk aren't being stupid in highsec.
What a confused argument. The fold corp option should make mass wardeccing less useful, and force careful target selection to find corps that have a reason to stay in business. That marmite doesn't even bother shows what a sham the whole thing is. |
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
300
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 07:12:37 -
[213] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Not interested in killing anyone. Would prefer better mechanics that didn't encourage marmite mass wardeccing with neither rhyme nor reason. One of the reasons Marmite and the like wardec multiple corps at once is the drop/remake corp mechanic you're so fond of using. They have to dec multiple corps to have something to shoot at when nullsec folk aren't being stupid in highsec. What a confused argument. The fold corp option should make mass wardeccing less useful, and force careful target selection to find corps that have a reason to stay in business. That marmite doesn't even bother shows what a sham the whole thing is.
The fold corp method of dodging wars is ridiculous. Imo, it should cost...no less than the cost of the war dec...because it is essentially a surrender. So you see...there is an argument for the other side of that issue as well...
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
565
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 08:02:29 -
[214] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Not interested in killing anyone. Would prefer better mechanics that didn't encourage marmite mass wardeccing with neither rhyme nor reason. One of the reasons Marmite and the like wardec multiple corps at once is the drop/remake corp mechanic you're so fond of using. They have to dec multiple corps to have something to shoot at when nullsec folk aren't being stupid in highsec. What a confused argument. The fold corp option should make mass wardeccing less useful, and force careful target selection to find corps that have a reason to stay in business. That marmite doesn't even bother shows what a sham the whole thing is. The fold corp method of dodging wars is ridiculous. Imo, it should cost...no less than the cost of the war dec...because it is essentially a surrender. So you see...there is an argument for the other side of that issue as well...
Sure...so you make folding corps expensive.
Result: Wardecc targets simply dock up and play on alts for a week....they have a chain of alts in 1 man corps with 1 alt in npc corp...they play on whichever 1 man corp alt isnt decced, and if they all get decced switch to the npc alt.
Now what? It's your move, milady. |
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1203
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 08:11:47 -
[215] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Sure...so you make folding corps expensive.
Result: Wardecc targets simply dock up and play on alts for a week....they have a chain of alts in 1 man corps with 1 alt in npc corp...they play on whichever 1 man corp alt isnt decced, and if they all get decced switch to the npc alt.
Now what? It's your move, milady.
Your premise is flawed again. I underlined the false part. CCP has data to prove that the poeple under wardec will stay and play longer because they have something to fight for (their corp). But to solve the issue of people like you: Make NPC corps a newbie only venture. The first 3 months, you get to be in an NPC corp, after that you have to either join or make your own corp. Leaving corp will be like transferring poco's, impossible while engaged in war.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
Masao Kurata
Z List
204
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 14:18:18 -
[216] - Quote
If people leave NPC corps because of the tax, levy an NPC tax on player corporations in inverse proportion to the number of active pve pilots in the corporation, starting at 20% for a one man corporation and hitting 1% at one hundred active members. Definition of active pve pilot pending, wouldn't want it to be easily abusable :P
Yes this is intentionally higher than NPC corporations for one man corps, the reason being that you get to waste wardeccers' time and ISK. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1045
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 15:20:22 -
[217] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:"The best defense is a good offense" - Mahatma Gandhi
I thought that was Mel, the cook on 'Alice'?
That reminds me of another quote:
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet." -Abraham Lincoln |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12338
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 16:50:40 -
[218] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:"The best defense is a good offense" - Mahatma Gandhi
I thought that was Mel, the cook on 'Alice'?
Play Civ 3, and you'll be ready to believe it was Ghandi. He has the highest aggression level in the game once he obtains nuclear weaponry, if I recall, because of a bug that gives him the development build for ******'s AI. (the leader of Germany in the 30s and 40s)
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4376
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 17:28:37 -
[219] - Quote
in civ i ghandi had the lowest aggression at a score of one, but when he got an upgrade that lowered his aggression, it fell below zero and defaulted to a level higher than anyone else, two hundred and fifty-five
similar aggressiveness was deliberately left in later versions because it was funny |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
565
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 19:30:14 -
[220] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Sure...so you make folding corps expensive.
Result: Wardecc targets simply dock up and play on alts for a week....they have a chain of alts in 1 man corps with 1 alt in npc corp...they play on whichever 1 man corp alt isnt decced, and if they all get decced switch to the npc alt.
Now what? It's your move, milady.
Your premise is flawed again. I underlined the false part. CCP has data to prove that the poeple under wardec will stay and play longer because they have something to fight for (their corp). But to solve the issue of people like you: Make NPC corps a newbie only venture. The first 3 months, you get to be in an NPC corp, after that you have to either join or make your own corp. Leaving corp will be like transferring poco's, impossible while engaged in war. D.
So you make 6 alts in different sham corps and just play one whichever one isnt decced. How have you helped the game? |
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
565
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 19:31:05 -
[221] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:If people leave NPC corps because of the tax, levy an NPC tax on player corporations in inverse proportion to the number of active pve pilots in the corporation, starting at 20% for a one man corporation and hitting 1% at one hundred active members. Definition of active pve pilot pending, wouldn't want it to be easily abusable :P
Yes this is intentionally higher than NPC corporations for one man corps, the reason being that you get to waste wardeccers' time and ISK.
So you just join sham corps of random people with no interaction, and continue to roll corp or play on alt during wardeccs. |
Mobadder Thworst
Perkone Caldari State
170
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 19:32:13 -
[222] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:"The best defense is a good offense" - Mahatma Gandhi
I thought that was Mel, the cook on 'Alice'? That reminds me of another quote: "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet." -Abraham Lincoln
Abe Lincoln is know for being honest... |
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1205
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 19:35:45 -
[223] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: So you make 6 alts in different sham corps and just play one whichever one isnt decced. How have you helped the game?
That's cute! First; How are you helping? And second, I'm helping by making PLAYERS stick around where you are... well, what ARE you doing?
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
Mobadder Thworst
Perkone Caldari State
170
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 19:42:47 -
[224] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: So you make 6 alts in different sham corps and just play one whichever one isnt decced. How have you helped the game?
That's cute! First; How are you helping? And second, I'm helping by making PLAYERS stick around where you are... well, what ARE you doing? D.
I'm helping the game. I'm pretty sure I'm getting a retention award.
It hasn't showed up yet though.
I want to continue to help the game, but it's not as viable of a playstyle as it used to be.
|
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
302
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 21:56:08 -
[225] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Not interested in killing anyone. Would prefer better mechanics that didn't encourage marmite mass wardeccing with neither rhyme nor reason. One of the reasons Marmite and the like wardec multiple corps at once is the drop/remake corp mechanic you're so fond of using. They have to dec multiple corps to have something to shoot at when nullsec folk aren't being stupid in highsec. What a confused argument. The fold corp option should make mass wardeccing less useful, and force careful target selection to find corps that have a reason to stay in business. That marmite doesn't even bother shows what a sham the whole thing is. The fold corp method of dodging wars is ridiculous. Imo, it should cost...no less than the cost of the war dec...because it is essentially a surrender. So you see...there is an argument for the other side of that issue as well... Sure...so you make folding corps expensive. Result: Wardecc targets simply dock up and play on alts for a week....they have a chain of alts in 1 man corps with 1 alt in npc corp...they play on whichever 1 man corp alt isnt decced, and if they all get decced switch to the npc alt. Now what? It's your move, milady.
Not everyone is as cowardly as you Veers...but that is your perrogative. Play on an alt, it doesn't matter. The purpose of a war is to disrupt normal corp opperations..which if you are forced to play on an alt, has succeeded. There is much more to it than making ships go boom...but I don't expect you to understand that. Sooner or later you will have to take a stand beyond complaining. Veers, has it ever occured to you that quite possibly if it wasn't so easy to dodge wars that there would be less ganking? People have found other ways to get the action they seek within the mechanics.
Once again..let me put it to you simple. If you are a golf or tennis person, you don't go to a hockey game, complain that it's "too violent", then ask that the game be changed because you don't like the way the game is played. You, sir, should not be at the hockey game if you like the relaxing nature of golf. When you make the choice to go to said game anyways, you accept what makes the game what it is and have no right to complain. Oh, so you paid too...well then that was your mistake. Perhaps in the future you will make more informed decisions.
...so..what now? It's your move good sir..
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
565
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 22:02:46 -
[226] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Not everyone is as cowardly as you Veers...but that is your perrogative. Play on an alt, it doesn't matter. The purpose of a war is to disrupt normal corp opperations..which if you are forced to play on an alt, has succeeded. There is much more to it than making ships go boom...but I don't expect you to understand that. Sooner or later you will have to take a stand beyond complaining. Veers, has it ever occured to you that quite possibly if it wasn't so easy to dodge wars that there would be less ganking? People have found other ways to get the action they seek within the mechanics. Once again..let me put it to you simple. If you are a golf or tennis person, you don't go to a hockey game, complain that it's "too violent", then ask that the game be changed because you don't like the way the game is played. You, sir, should not be at the hockey game if you like the relaxing nature of golf. When you make the choice to go to said game anyways, you accept what makes the game what it is and have no right to complain. Oh, so you paid too...well then that was your mistake. Perhaps in the future you will make more informed decisions. ...so..what now? It's your move good sir..
Oh dear...a swing...and a miss.
The point isn't crying about wardecs. The point is to intelligently analyze how wardeccs influence social cohesion in highsec. By demonstrating that the current mechanics encourage social isolation to effectively evade wars, and that there is no tangible way to change that mechanic, to the extent that we cannot force people to log on, undock, and fight - the logical conclusion is that nonconsensual wars are a net negative for the game, and need to go.
Nothing about bravery or cowardice here - only a cool analysis of if the current wardec mechanics make the game better or worse. And worse it is, by a mile. Unless you have some way of designing wars to foster increased socialization, as opposed to increased isolation, you should agree that wars are a net negative for the game.
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
214
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 22:09:51 -
[227] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Fanfest 2015 was awesome and I'll be going to Fanfest 2016 to join the fun. Looking at all the twitch streams I noticed one nice presentation by CCP Rise. Have a look at these 4 slides from this presentation : One, two, three and four. CCP Rise says : People who die play longer (Talking about new players in Eve) Since Marmites is one of the alliances who probably kills most of the players in high-sec (like RvB, Eve Uni, Forsaken Asylum, etc), should CCP be hiring us ? it will keep more newbro's in the game. Tora The Marmite Collective aka CCP's Isk Sink aka CCP Keep Newbro's in Game. Not that I'm questioning the reality, I'm going to question the graph. How does that graph show retention? It just shows newbros die 16% of the time and 1% of those are purely illegal deaths. There's no representation of retention data at all. I feel like everybody is discussing some secret 5th slide that actually showed relevant percentages to the hypothesis. |
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
302
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 22:25:07 -
[228] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:Not everyone is as cowardly as you Veers...but that is your perrogative. Play on an alt, it doesn't matter. The purpose of a war is to disrupt normal corp opperations..which if you are forced to play on an alt, has succeeded. There is much more to it than making ships go boom...but I don't expect you to understand that. Sooner or later you will have to take a stand beyond complaining. Veers, has it ever occured to you that quite possibly if it wasn't so easy to dodge wars that there would be less ganking? People have found other ways to get the action they seek within the mechanics. Once again..let me put it to you simple. If you are a golf or tennis person, you don't go to a hockey game, complain that it's "too violent", then ask that the game be changed because you don't like the way the game is played. You, sir, should not be at the hockey game if you like the relaxing nature of golf. When you make the choice to go to said game anyways, you accept what makes the game what it is and have no right to complain. Oh, so you paid too...well then that was your mistake. Perhaps in the future you will make more informed decisions. ...so..what now? It's your move good sir.. Oh dear...a swing...and a miss. The point isn't crying about wardecs. The point is to intelligently analyze how wardeccs influence social cohesion in highsec. By demonstrating that the current mechanics encourage social isolation to effectively evade wars, and that there is no tangible way to change that mechanic, to the extent that we cannot force people to log on, undock, and fight - the logical conclusion is that nonconsensual wars are a net negative for the game, and need to go. Nothing about bravery or cowardice here - only a cool analysis of if the current wardec mechanics make the game better or worse. And worse it is, by a mile. Unless you have some way of designing wars to foster increased socialization, as opposed to increased isolation, you should agree that wars are a net negative for the game.
You are trying to over analyze a game Veers...so in this, your whole point is being lost. Eve is a game. Morals don't apply. You play to have fun and people have different brands of fun. I didn't expect you to understand as you are unwilling to see things for what they are. Negative for the game is your opinion. You are playing a game of fighting and war. Your "visions" for a "better" eve are ludicrous. You are not a hero, you re not the savior or the game, you are just another sub who cannot accept things for what they are. You will never "get it" until you open your mind, realize that you are playing a game, and move on to join others in what the game is all about. You can argue about it all you want...but you are missing the true meaning.
Bottom line, if you don't like the way it is...move on. Shiptoasting on the forums because you don't like the way things are, when you accepted this fact the moment you decided to play, is pointless and only serves to further your narcisism. Having opinion and ideals is good...but unless you are willing to live and learn both sides of the issue, you are only fooling yourself into thinking you are right. I once thought like you....but I put my big girl pants on and grew up.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
565
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 02:00:50 -
[229] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:You are trying to over analyze a game Veers...so in this, your whole point is being lost. Eve is a game. Morals don't apply. You play to have fun and people have different brands of fun. I didn't expect you to understand as you are unwilling to see things for what they are. Negative for the game is your opinion. You are playing a game of fighting and war. Your "visions" for a "better" eve are ludicrous. You are not a hero, you re not the savior or the game, you are just another sub who cannot accept things for what they are. You will never "get it" until you open your mind, realize that you are playing a game, and move on to join others in what the game is all about. You can argue about it all you want...but you are missing the true meaning. Bottom line, if you don't like the way it is...move on. Shiptoasting on the forums because you don't like the way things are, when you accepted this fact the moment you decided to play, is pointless and only serves to further your narcisism. Having opinion and ideals is good...but unless you are willing to live and learn both sides of the issue, you are only fooling yourself into thinking you are right. I once thought like you....but I put my big girl pants on and grew up.
The impact of wardecs on social interaction in highsec has nothing to do with morality - it has to do with improving the gameplay experience for everyone. Thankfully CCP is constantly improving the game, with awoxxing recently discarded, and failed highsec wardeccs hopefully soon to follow. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
74
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 02:47:03 -
[230] - Quote
You know I don't feel you are reaching your target audience here veers. Perhaps make the trip to Iceland and protest highsec wars outside CCP headquarters
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
|
|
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2285
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 03:57:32 -
[231] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
The impact of wardecs on social interaction in highsec has nothing to do with morality - it has to do with improving the gameplay experience for everyone. Thankfully CCP is constantly improving the game, with awoxxing recently discarded, and failed highsec wardeccs hopefully soon to follow.
Wrong.
Wardecs have a giant impact on social interaction in highsec. I know this because being wardecced by a ****-hot merc corp forced my carebear alliance to disband, and sent me packing for lowsec, where I learned how to EvE.
So, when you say "improve the experience for everyone", are you hopeful that wardecs are gone completely, and that highsec should be a safe zone where no consequences apply? Honestly, from reading your posts, it gives the impression that you think highsec ISK farming should be risk-free.
Risk free and EvE are mutually exclusive terms. ( That means they cant exist in the same place at the same time, in case you needed a hand with that.)
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
305
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 04:24:33 -
[232] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:You are trying to over analyze a game Veers...so in this, your whole point is being lost. Eve is a game. Morals don't apply. You play to have fun and people have different brands of fun. I didn't expect you to understand as you are unwilling to see things for what they are. Negative for the game is your opinion. You are playing a game of fighting and war. Your "visions" for a "better" eve are ludicrous. You are not a hero, you re not the savior or the game, you are just another sub who cannot accept things for what they are. You will never "get it" until you open your mind, realize that you are playing a game, and move on to join others in what the game is all about. You can argue about it all you want...but you are missing the true meaning. Bottom line, if you don't like the way it is...move on. Shiptoasting on the forums because you don't like the way things are, when you accepted this fact the moment you decided to play, is pointless and only serves to further your narcisism. Having opinion and ideals is good...but unless you are willing to live and learn both sides of the issue, you are only fooling yourself into thinking you are right. I once thought like you....but I put my big girl pants on and grew up. The impact of wardecs on social interaction in highsec has nothing to do with morality - it has to do with improving the gameplay experience for everyone. Thankfully CCP is constantly improving the game, with awoxxing recently discarded, and failed highsec wardeccs hopefully soon to follow.
You mean "improving" gameplay for you..Like I said...If you don't like hockey...
War decs are not going to go away Veers..no matter how much you cry about it. You can live in that Kumbaya mentality all you want...but war and conflict are the very core of Eve and it has been stated numerous times by CCP. Cry elsewhere. People like YOU are the reason for ganking. People like YOU are the reason for decs on small corps. Entitlement and complacency are the order of the day for types like yourself. You are not entitled to safety, or isk, or avoiding conflict...and if you become complacent, you lose. You are either the predator or the prey..and the prey becomes noticed when they cry out in a field of predators. I have played Eve more than twice as long as you..so please spare me the Veers "lesson" on what eve is "supposed" to be.
Tbh, you really have no business in Eve if this is what you want and expect Veers . Eve is what it is, like it or not. Stop trying to ruin the game for those who can hack it to accomodate those who probably shouldn't be playing it to begin with. It's a harsh universe out there Veers...you either learn how to adapt..or you die.
You know Veers...it's really hard to tell sometimes if you are actually serious about the things you say. You are either trolling...in which case I salute you...or you actually believe the ridiculous, poorly thought out, contradictive statements that you spew forth on these forums. I actually hope you are just a troll...because then you'd make sense.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Masao Kurata
Z List
205
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 04:51:06 -
[233] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:If people leave NPC corps because of the tax, levy an NPC tax on player corporations in inverse proportion to the number of active pve pilots in the corporation, starting at 20% for a one man corporation and hitting 1% at one hundred active members. Definition of active pve pilot pending, wouldn't want it to be easily abusable :P
Yes this is intentionally higher than NPC corporations for one man corps, the reason being that you get to waste wardeccers' time and ISK. So you just join sham corps of random people with no interaction, and continue to roll corp or play on alt during wardeccs.
How cute, you think there will be a break in wardecs for 100 man pve tax mills with no leadership. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
75
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Posted - 2015.03.30 05:07:30 -
[234] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:You mean "improving" gameplay for you..Like I said...If you don't like hockey... War decs are not going to go away Veers..no matter how much you cry about it. You can live in that Kumbaya mentality all you want...but war and conflict are the very core of Eve and it has been stated numerous times by CCP. Cry elsewhere. People like YOU are the reason for ganking. People like YOU are the reason for decs on small corps. Entitlement and complacency are the order of the day for types like yourself. You are not entitled to safety, or isk, or avoiding conflict...and if you become complacent, you lose. You are either the predator or the prey..and the prey becomes noticed when they cry out in a field of predators. I have played Eve more than twice as long as you..so please spare me the Veers "lesson" on what eve is "supposed" to be. Tbh, you really have no business in Eve if this is what you want and expect Veers . Eve is what it is, like it or not. Stop trying to ruin the game for those who can hack it to accomodate those who probably shouldn't be playing it to begin with. It's a harsh universe out there Veers...you either learn how to adapt..or you die. You know Veers...it's really hard to tell sometimes if you are actually serious about the things you say. You are either trolling...in which case I salute you...or you actually believe the ridiculous, poorly thought out, contradictive statements that you spew forth on these forums. I actually hope you are just a troll...because then you'd make sense. shh don't let him know we are onto him
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2183
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Posted - 2015.03.30 07:16:50 -
[235] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:intelligently analyze hahahaha, , You lost me laughing at "intelligently" ...... haha. There are many words I would describe you with. This isnt one of them.
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
308
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Posted - 2015.03.30 07:28:13 -
[236] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:intelligently analyze hahahaha, , You lost me laughing at "intelligently" ...... haha. There are many words I would describe you with. This isnt one of them.
OMG...I almost lost it and spilled my drink on my laptop. I wasn't gonna go there....straight out anyways.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
658
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Posted - 2015.03.30 07:35:17 -
[237] - Quote
Veers, CCP pretty much already confirmed you're wrong so at this point you're just embarrassing yourself for sport or something.
Hades Effect Mercenary Services / 3rd Party Services
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
374
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Posted - 2015.03.30 09:21:13 -
[238] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:intelligently analyze hahahaha, , You lost me laughing at "intelligently" ...... haha. There are many words I would describe you with. This isnt one of them. Doesn't apply to you either imo. Or anyone else in this thread and others who keep replying to that guy.
Veers Belvar, See 'n Pee Master Troll A Number One. 10/10. |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2185
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Posted - 2015.03.30 09:41:48 -
[239] - Quote
I think its time to close the post. Nuf said....
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Mobadder Thworst
Perkone Caldari State
171
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Posted - 2015.03.30 09:58:17 -
[240] - Quote
WAIT!!! I don't close it yet! wanted to let everyone know that I sold that badass raven build and returned to my rightful place in Umokka.
Veers, come on over. I'm serious about teaching you. I can help you help others. Or at lease, I can make you more formidable when someone tries to get you.
As if it were an omen, my second kill since returning was a 1.7 B drop. I'm meant to be in high sec. I think the loot gods are trying to prove it to me. Mo
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Noragen Neirfallas
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
78
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Posted - 2015.03.30 10:02:05 -
[241] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:intelligently analyze hahahaha, , You lost me laughing at "intelligently" ...... haha. There are many words I would describe you with. This isnt one of them. so i now have coke all over my keyboard and 2/3 of my monitors...
Very entertaining
Much content
So Eve
Such Blogging
http://eve12monthchallenge.blogspot.com.au/
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