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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.10.20 00:10:00 -
[31]
The main source of complaint is probably because the logistics of anti-piracy used to be a bit harder. A fight tended to be hard to find. I think everyone knows that skirmish defense tends to be much harder to rally than rallying people for a gank or a suicide op. If you want to fight pirates in low-sec, your best option is to become a "pirate" oneself. Because of the lack of cooperative endeavors in contemporary EVE, I fear that piracy no longer has any meaning or at least that it no longer has any parallels that offer it any distinction.
What pirates and pvpers benefit from most is not leet skillz, but simply our habits as groups. It doesn't matter how much you know about your ship generally, but how much you know about what you gangmate is going to do before he does it. Similarly, it doesn't count for as much to know all the possible counter setups for a ship, compared to having a notion of how a hostile gang is apt to behave, and how they will react to a strategy as it is unfolding. Also, having a really good idea of what time you buddy is going to be on and itching for a fight (out of habit) makes a difference too. Suicidal willingness is like a 500% damage mod. The first time a player gets insta-nuked, most tend to think it is simply a product of their low skillpoints that they got one or two-shotted, and thus they adopt avoidant tendencies for the first few months or seasons of gameplay.
Also, until they spend some time as a pirate, they generally don't know what makes solo, or non-blob pirates wary. For example, standing still, especially somewhere like a belt or a station, or in system with other pirates, or targets with nos/drones/friends/good intel & response network. Other really obvious stuff too.
Note for example the really paranoid pirates. Especially the ones who don't relax during a ransom, and are convinced assistance is going to arrive on some noob in a tempest with medium guns that is being ransomed in the next 15 seconds. Yeah, sometimes it is clear that some pirates have never really spent any time as a carebear either.
Note also the relatively simplistic nature of ransoms. CCP makes the end of carebear gameplay include gimped combat ships and basically allows the less social players to gorge on server resources like fatted calves waiting for slaughter. It makes the objective of ransoming simple, but it doesn't make much for other typical gangster sport. When was the last time you could get someone scared enough about losing their ship that you could use an ultimatum like Platto o Plomo? If you don't know what this means, you are not yet a real gangster. Blame CCP for failing to equate "getting ahead" with "getting ahead of your peers." That's why we can't really manipulate, intimidate or properly corrupt people.
To be honest, with current comprehensive game mechanics, I don't think piracy has much going for it except as one of the stylized forms of essential ganking. And to respond to the OP directly, in all the years I've been reading these forums, I really can't say that the proportion of pirate whine threads has hit any sort of critical mass unless you selectively focus on them. I'd guess the whines on piracy or vets is outnumbered by whines on certain unnamed alliances or alts 1:5. I don't think I've even seen the phrase "risk vs. reward" in more than one post in the past 3-4 months. Then again, I may be slacking.
Maybe you guys just need a good cheering up from pirate community comraderie. Personally I find a good whine cathartic sometimes. What I really think the pirate community needs is something orginal, dramatic, and innovative. It needs a spectacle. Maybe a large-scale empire piracy mobilization, or gang war or something. Maybe a sprawling and well-publicized POS conflict. Just some kind of Piracy News to ease the doldrums.
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.10.20 00:10:00 -
[32]
The main source of complaint is probably because the logistics of anti-piracy used to be a bit harder. A fight tended to be hard to find. I think everyone knows that skirmish defense tends to be much harder to rally than rallying people for a gank or a suicide op. If you want to fight pirates in low-sec, your best option is to become a "pirate" oneself. Because of the lack of cooperative endeavors in contemporary EVE, I fear that piracy no longer has any meaning or at least that it no longer has any parallels that offer it any distinction.
What pirates and pvpers benefit from most is not leet skillz, but simply our habits as groups. It doesn't matter how much you know about your ship generally, but how much you know about what you gangmate is going to do before he does it. Similarly, it doesn't count for as much to know all the possible counter setups for a ship, compared to having a notion of how a hostile gang is apt to behave, and how they will react to a strategy as it is unfolding. Also, having a really good idea of what time you buddy is going to be on and itching for a fight (out of habit) makes a difference too. Suicidal willingness is like a 500% damage mod. The first time a player gets insta-nuked, most tend to think it is simply a product of their low skillpoints that they got one or two-shotted, and thus they adopt avoidant tendencies for the first few months or seasons of gameplay.
Also, until they spend some time as a pirate, they generally don't know what makes solo, or non-blob pirates wary. For example, standing still, especially somewhere like a belt or a station, or in system with other pirates, or targets with nos/drones/friends/good intel & response network. Other really obvious stuff too.
Note for example the really paranoid pirates. Especially the ones who don't relax during a ransom, and are convinced assistance is going to arrive on some noob in a tempest with medium guns that is being ransomed in the next 15 seconds. Yeah, sometimes it is clear that some pirates have never really spent any time as a carebear either.
Note also the relatively simplistic nature of ransoms. CCP makes the end of carebear gameplay include gimped combat ships and basically allows the less social players to gorge on server resources like fatted calves waiting for slaughter. It makes the objective of ransoming simple, but it doesn't make much for other typical gangster sport. When was the last time you could get someone scared enough about losing their ship that you could use an ultimatum like Platto o Plomo? If you don't know what this means, you are not yet a real gangster. Blame CCP for failing to equate "getting ahead" with "getting ahead of your peers." That's why we can't really manipulate, intimidate or properly corrupt people.
To be honest, with current comprehensive game mechanics, I don't think piracy has much going for it except as one of the stylized forms of essential ganking. And to respond to the OP directly, in all the years I've been reading these forums, I really can't say that the proportion of pirate whine threads has hit any sort of critical mass unless you selectively focus on them. I'd guess the whines on piracy or vets is outnumbered by whines on certain unnamed alliances or alts 1:5. I don't think I've even seen the phrase "risk vs. reward" in more than one post in the past 3-4 months. Then again, I may be slacking.
Maybe you guys just need a good cheering up from pirate community comraderie. Personally I find a good whine cathartic sometimes. What I really think the pirate community needs is something orginal, dramatic, and innovative. It needs a spectacle. Maybe a large-scale empire piracy mobilization, or gang war or something. Maybe a sprawling and well-publicized POS conflict. Just some kind of Piracy News to ease the doldrums.
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Zoxia
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.10.20 02:07:00 -
[33]
LMAO!! yeah I got one!!
* drum roll *
And the GATE CAMPER of the month award goes too...........
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Zoxia
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.10.20 02:07:00 -
[34]
LMAO!! yeah I got one!!
* drum roll *
And the GATE CAMPER of the month award goes too...........
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Sun Win
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2006.10.20 02:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Mark Weston You want to roleplay being a pirate, that's cool. But you're going to also have to roleplay being disliked. Deal with it, or change professions.
Quoted for truth.
When you choose to be a pirate, you are choosing to be a badguy. Wait let me write that again. When *I* chose to be a pirate I chose to be a badguy. I decided that I was willing to play this game in a way that would antagonize others.
People love to hate the villain. We are villains. Get over it
New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
Sun Win
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2006.10.20 02:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Mark Weston You want to roleplay being a pirate, that's cool. But you're going to also have to roleplay being disliked. Deal with it, or change professions.
Quoted for truth.
When you choose to be a pirate, you are choosing to be a badguy. Wait let me write that again. When *I* chose to be a pirate I chose to be a badguy. I decided that I was willing to play this game in a way that would antagonize others.
People love to hate the villain. We are villains. Get over it
New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
Apothos
Loot
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Posted - 2006.10.20 03:17:00 -
[37]
It's not the being hated part that annoys me, the part that annoys me is that just because we like to blow **** up people automatically assume that we're either 14 year old kids with no friends or pedophiles. The stupidity of those statements astounds me.
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Apothos
Loot
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Posted - 2006.10.20 03:17:00 -
[38]
It's not the being hated part that annoys me, the part that annoys me is that just because we like to blow **** up people automatically assume that we're either 14 year old kids with no friends or pedophiles. The stupidity of those statements astounds me.
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Tapper Jackson
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.20 04:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Apothos It's not the being hated part that annoys me, the part that annoys me is that just because we like to blow **** up people automatically assume that we're either 14 year old kids with no friends or pedophiles. The stupidity of those statements astounds me.
Well those people are just yanking your chain in all probability. You know. Trying to cause you emotioanal pain. I mean....just because you're a sad sack of **** doesn't mean you're a pedophile. And you don't write like a fourteen year old.
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Tapper Jackson
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.20 04:42:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Apothos It's not the being hated part that annoys me, the part that annoys me is that just because we like to blow **** up people automatically assume that we're either 14 year old kids with no friends or pedophiles. The stupidity of those statements astounds me.
Well those people are just yanking your chain in all probability. You know. Trying to cause you emotioanal pain. I mean....just because you're a sad sack of **** doesn't mean you're a pedophile. And you don't write like a fourteen year old.
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Lanfear's Bane
Daughters of the Night
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Posted - 2006.10.20 08:20:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Apothos It's not the being hated part that annoys me, the part that annoys me is that just because we like to blow **** up people automatically assume that we're either 14 year old kids with no friends or pedophiles. The stupidity of those statements astounds me.
Well apparently we are to expect this according to a lot of the posters in this thread, that such attacks are acceptable.
I think that after a ship destruction a ten minute mute in local should kick in, giving these abusers a chance to cool down and re-evaluate their anger.
Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _
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Lanfear's Bane
Daughters of the Night
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Posted - 2006.10.20 08:20:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Apothos It's not the being hated part that annoys me, the part that annoys me is that just because we like to blow **** up people automatically assume that we're either 14 year old kids with no friends or pedophiles. The stupidity of those statements astounds me.
Well apparently we are to expect this according to a lot of the posters in this thread, that such attacks are acceptable.
I think that after a ship destruction a ten minute mute in local should kick in, giving these abusers a chance to cool down and re-evaluate their anger.
Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _
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Tapper Jackson
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:38:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lanfear's Bane
Originally by: Apothos It's not the being hated part that annoys me, the part that annoys me is that just because we like to blow **** up people automatically assume that we're either 14 year old kids with no friends or pedophiles. The stupidity of those statements astounds me.
Well apparently we are to expect this according to a lot of the posters in this thread, that such attacks are acceptable.
I think that after a ship destruction a ten minute mute in local should kick in, giving these abusers a chance to cool down and re-evaluate their anger.
Lanfear's Bane.
Really this seems like a troll. It's hard to believe that pirates are getting their feelings injured by harsh language from the people they blow up. Annoyed by someone calling you a name? You just blew up their ship. Surely you expect them to express some annoyance. Especially since most pirates in my limited experience take on relatively defenseless victims. You expect a hauler pilot to congratulate you on a good kill or fight when you blow him up in your T2 cruiser or your battleship?
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Tapper Jackson
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Lanfear's Bane
Originally by: Apothos It's not the being hated part that annoys me, the part that annoys me is that just because we like to blow **** up people automatically assume that we're either 14 year old kids with no friends or pedophiles. The stupidity of those statements astounds me.
Well apparently we are to expect this according to a lot of the posters in this thread, that such attacks are acceptable.
I think that after a ship destruction a ten minute mute in local should kick in, giving these abusers a chance to cool down and re-evaluate their anger.
Lanfear's Bane.
Really this seems like a troll. It's hard to believe that pirates are getting their feelings injured by harsh language from the people they blow up. Annoyed by someone calling you a name? You just blew up their ship. Surely you expect them to express some annoyance. Especially since most pirates in my limited experience take on relatively defenseless victims. You expect a hauler pilot to congratulate you on a good kill or fight when you blow him up in your T2 cruiser or your battleship?
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Rooker
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:47:00 -
[45]
Thanks for confirming that you get just as **** off about the response as your victims do about your actions. Nice to see the griefing flows in both directions.
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Rooker
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:47:00 -
[46]
Thanks for confirming that you get just as **** off about the response as your victims do about your actions. Nice to see the griefing flows in both directions.
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Lanfear's Bane
Daughters of the Night
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:14:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Rooker Thanks for confirming that you get just as **** off about the response as your victims do about your actions. Nice to see the griefing flows in both directions.
You are trying to compare two dissimilar things.
And anyway my actions do not count as griefing. I gain more than sufficent satisfaction from killing you and scooping your remains. It's just the 'here we go again' feeling when the smack kicks in or you see alt comments on the forums maoning about pirates yet again that makes me dispair.
Is it really necessary. I suppose it's less of a case of being annoyed, more of a case of how about a nice big cup of shut the flip up.
My opinion on the topic swings anyway, but then again I have psychological discrepancies so most of the time I get a kick out of the smart smack, not the brave alts that frequent this forum. Today it dones't really bother me and I am just enjoying the different sides of the conversation.
Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _
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Silane Daktor
Soar Angelic Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.20 13:25:00 -
[48]
Pirating makes the game interesting.
If you had no pirates, there'd be hardly any industry. Much less ships/ modules/ drones would be blown away. There'd be no threat. No excitement. No loss. No sense of achievement apart from watching your wallet grow. Sure there'd be corp wars but that wouldn't be enough to sustain a thriving market.
Can anyone seriously tell me that escaping pirates in their ship which has expensive stuff fitted/ in cargo isn't exciting? Yes, I know it's very horrible that they were trying to kill you in the first place, those big meanies, but I bet your heart was racing when you got away. You don't always get away, but pirates get blown up too don't forget.
In summary, we keep the game sharp
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Osia
Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2006.10.20 14:27:00 -
[49]
Greetings,
I've seen and heard from many pirates talk about the verbal abuse they often receive as a result of their actions. I've also seen how many pirates often add insult to injury in the course of plying their trade with an equally colorful stream of verbal bashing before, during, and after an encounter. It seems odd to me that pirates don't understand that people don't like to loose. Its as simple as you just took away hours or days worth of effort from someone. It is only natural to engender a certain amount of animosity in those whom you take from. If I chose that path in game I would be surprised when I didn't receive some reaction from those I targeted.
All that being said if someone crossed the line of verbal abuse covered in the EULA by all means petition them. In that case the GM's should be on your side and discipline the offender accordingly.
Silane Daktor, I can honestly say that getting through a gate camp or getting away from pirates with an expensive cargo isn't exciting. At some point in the past it was, but now the piracy I see is in a sad state. Because low security space is what it is and piracy is so popular when I get attacked its like being set upon by starving dogs foaming at the mouth, desperate to get their paws on anything at all. --- Logistics XO, Astrum Contract Services Group
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente CURSED LEGION OF DOOM Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.20 15:26:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Osia Greetings,
I've seen and heard from many pirates talk about the verbal abuse they often receive as a result of their actions. I've also seen how many pirates often add insult to injury in the course of plying their trade with an equally colorful stream of verbal bashing before, during, and after an encounter. It seems odd to me that pirates don't understand that people don't like to loose. Its as simple as you just took away hours or days worth of effort from someone. It is only natural to engender a certain amount of animosity in those whom you take from. If I chose that path in game I would be surprised when I didn't receive some reaction from those I targeted.
All that being said if someone crossed the line of verbal abuse covered in the EULA by all means petition them. In that case the GM's should be on your side and discipline the offender accordingly.
Silane Daktor, I can honestly say that getting through a gate camp or getting away from pirates with an expensive cargo isn't exciting. At some point in the past it was, but now the piracy I see is in a sad state. Because low security space is what it is and piracy is so popular when I get attacked its like being set upon by starving dogs foaming at the mouth, desperate to get their paws on anything at all.
I can understand smack talk from an angry customer of mine. But what I can't stand is the guy who likes to fly into the system in a battle ship or a blob of friends and says hey Marcus lets fight. And I'll simply reply no thanks im not here to make myself the big man in the system im just here for the loot. Which will inevitably lead to being called a chicken,*****,****er,fag,etc.
Thats what ****es me off. And also people whining in the forum about getting ganked
The Best Thing I've ever seen in local chat [15:17:21] sotmassacer > can someone give me a big battleship for a while
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Osia
Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2006.10.20 16:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I can understand smack talk from an angry customer of mine. But what I can't stand is the guy who likes to fly into the system in a battle ship or a blob of friends and says hey Marcus lets fight. And I'll simply reply no thanks im not here to make myself the big man in the system im just here for the loot. Which will inevitably lead to being called a chicken,*****,****er,fag,etc.
Thats what ****es me off. And also people whining in the forum about getting ganked
Well, you're right in that facing the mob lacks a certain amount of prudence. I don't subscribe to raising the mob when something bad happens to me because I know if our positions were reversed I wouldn't fight the mob either.
As far as the colorful language from the mob its inexcusable in a game and should be dealt with appropriately. Petition them and move on. Trolling in a thread should be treated in the same manner, shoot an email to the mods and move on. In short, don't get mad it gives you wrinkles.
Now whining on a forum, whether its about getting ganked or not having enough targets is sad, but it is what one should expect from a forum. When I read the forums I expect to get small tidbits of information I can use, some amusement from the odd joke or story, and a stack of whining and complaining. While some of the complaints are genuine, the overwhelming number are not. Again not a good enough reason to induce wrinkle production. --- Logistics XO, Astrum Contract Services Group
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Nexa Necis
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Posted - 2006.10.20 19:40:00 -
[52]
Don't forget that if you play a pirate in game, then in real life you must also be a thief/murderer. You must also be a bastard child, or have been abused somehow by your parents/loved ones.
If you play a pirate in game, then in real life you must have a small wee-wee, be either a pre-teen punk, a pimple-faced virgin teenaged computer geek, or a pervy old man who likes to beat up on kids in a MMORPG.
If you play a pirate in game, then in real life you must be a lying, untrustworthy, scummy, morally lacking and ethically depraved individual.
I've garnered all of these tidbits from the various people I have killed/ransomed so it must be true.
So if you play a pirate in game, then it's impossible for you to be someone who enjoys playing video games and filling a role as a pirate in a MMORPG. It just can't be!
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Niranen Einar
Loot
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Posted - 2006.10.20 20:11:00 -
[53]
Really, I have no problems with my clients. I tend to offer a "good fight" when deserved and leave at that. If they kill me - good for them, if I kill them - good for me. Personal attacks and smack are just to be ignored. Besides, those that tend to throw personal insults end up on my "prefered clients" list and die more.
Bored? Check out... LOOT's In-Game Site |
Seeker Ash
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.10.20 21:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mark Weston You choose to destroy the results of hours or days of another player's time, and frustrate them in their own in-game objectives. Yes, it's cool that the EVE universe allows this to happen, that the players decide the sort of world they live in. But why on earth would you act surprised that people get angry when it happens to them?
You want to roleplay being a pirate, that's cool. But you're going to also have to roleplay being disliked. Deal with it, or change professions.
/Signed.
I worked on this post for 20 minutes and don't have anything to add. >_> _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
Cwheung
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Posted - 2006.10.21 02:34:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Cwheung on 21/10/2006 02:34:24
Originally by: Niranen Einar Really, I have no problems with my clients. I tend to offer a "good fight" when deserved and leave at that. If they kill me - good for them, if I kill them - good for me. Personal attacks and smack are just to be ignored. Besides, those that tend to throw personal insults end up on my "prefered clients" list and die more.
Clients? lol, why not just call them what they are? VICTIMS and stop trying to sound so caviler
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Talynn D'uan
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Posted - 2006.10.21 13:09:00 -
[56]
I've had a couple of run ins with pirates whilst ratting in low-sec, and lost every time, but never once felt the need to vent my frustrations with a string of obscenities.
Yes they're aggravating, yes it's annoying having to deck out a new ship, but damn it was fun trying to get the upper hand, or just get away alive!
I guess i've been fortunate, the pirates i've encountered have been quite open to a civilised chat after they've turned my ship into scrapmetal, and it's quite interesting finding out how they hunted me down in the first place lol
Way i see it, it's just something that's a part of the game, it keeps the wheels turning and keeps people adapting, and alot of these pirates are good company, after they've left you floating in the cold reaches of space ^^
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Famine Aligher'ri
V i L e
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Posted - 2006.10.21 13:29:00 -
[57]
I think you're taking easy kills to your head. What do you expect when you're using cheap tactics to kill innocent people so easy? A round of applause? Besides, so many miners and carebears have switched to gate piracy. I think we are winning the war.
If you want the smacktalk and insulting posts to stop going away. Then stop hunting in empire, stop sniping at gates, stop tanking sentry, and stop belt pirating. Otherwise, got to learn to deal with it or leave the trade.
Vile - Recruiting Pirates |
baron corrino
Gallente Veto.
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Posted - 2006.10.21 14:23:00 -
[58]
We pirates and scoundrals... we teach the unwary, the stupid and the dumb!! We are the sharks who travel the space lanes and we willingly bestow these lessons to all that require it.
After facing upto a brethern of piracy, you are never the same!!
All HAIL PIRACY!!!
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Cadela Fria
Amarr eXin Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.21 14:38:00 -
[59]
I've said it before and ill say it again (albeit in the shortened version) :
Without us pirates, you'd get bored, you watch Without us pirates, there wouldnt be as vibrant industrial activity Without us pirates, YOU would turn pirate (meaning those of you who are carebears), because it's a simple evolutionary step...you've worked so hard, for so long and trained yourself and fought rats ad nausium to improve your combat abilitoes. Sooner or later...you're going to want to blow something, or rather more specifically, someone, that's not an automated npc, up. Deny it all you will..curse my person or name if you desire, but in reality..you know it's true. Because blowing **** up is FUN.
-Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right |
Seeker Ash
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.10.21 16:22:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Seeker Ash on 21/10/2006 16:22:09 Actually, no, I'm gonna have to say you're wrong there, Cadela. There are people who go their entire lives perfectly happy to not blow anyone up.
Everyone isn't like you. _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
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