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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1690
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Posted - 2015.03.04 16:16:26 -
[1] - Quote
A multitude of the #'s are pretty wrong. By wrong I mean clearly disproportionate to how much effort defenders have to put in vs random reaver/inty gangs. This heavily favors larger alliances with squads and the ability to run 3-4 interceptor fleets at a time. It also heavily favors attackers griefing smaller alliances out of their stations through freeport/hellcamp/shutting down the entire region.
You have a scenario here where any big player can blow out a smaller alliance from an entire region inside the weekly cycle most people login. Do you really want to chain people to their space as part of an EVE job or do you want to spread it out a bit so they have time to mount an effective response? One of the good things about Dominion SOV is that it makes it take approximately a week to punt someone from a single area much less an entire region. This gives slightly more weekly/casual players the time to react and participate in their defense.
I would suggest making the freeport after a 2nd timer and in general making sure things aren't "dead" after a single reinforcement fight. This is going to make the meta just a big hammer against random parts of space and watching anyone small get obliterated as a past time.
All of the timers probably need at least a doubling as well. There is really no incentive to hold SOV for defense bonus's if we are talking about adding 20 minutes to a cap. The rest of the indexes need to matter. The fact that there is almost 0 Industry indexes ground up as a regional whole is pretty telling. Mining needing fixing is another whole blog though.
This does nothing to make those very "buffer zones" referred to in the blog any better. The reason they are buffer zones is not because they are some EHP buffer. I have no idea why Fozzie is referring to them that way but that is a dramatic misunderstanding of why they exist. They are total crap space with no real ability to be upgraded, generate income, or provide any real ability to support someone living there. They are the EVE equivalent of flyover states that you only transit to get somewhere good.
Finally, I would probably reduce the beacons to 3. Since this is tunable fairly easily, I would assume, you can start by breaking up the fights into 3 areas and seeing what impact that has. 5 is strongly biased against smaller players or those that don't want to have EVE by a job more than it already is.
Summary: This is so weighted to attacking and not the defenders I do not believe it will promote the real growth and sandcastle building you want. Instead it means anyone organized, big, and with manpower is going to grief the living crap outta smaller players. Reavers were already pretty laffo, but this is going to stick it into overdrive. Not the fight promoting overdrive either but the AFK cloaking until you have an opportunity to grief kind. You are making the same mistake you made with non-fight promoting siphons.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1692
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Posted - 2015.03.04 16:55:38 -
[2] - Quote
Princess Cherista wrote:Aryth wrote:Summary: This is so weighted to attacking and not the defenders I do not believe it will promote the real growth and sandcastle building you want. Instead it means anyone organized, big, and with manpower is going to grief the living crap outta smaller players. Reavers were already pretty laffo, but this is going to stick it into overdrive. Not the fight promoting overdrive either but the AFK cloaking until you have an opportunity to grief kind. You are making the same mistake you made with non-fight promoting siphons I dont think the horror has set in yet as to what this system means for small "elite" groups and ping-based alliances that relied on one BIG TIMER to bring supers or slowcats to.
This comes up in every possible thread about Null. I will repeat the mantra once more. Any system that allows a small player to "grief" a large bloc will instead be used predominately to grief the smaller players BY the blocs. You can mitigate this but to suggest that blocs are quaking in their boots right now would be hilariously misguided. If you take the time to research you are going to see Dek is the one region in the entire game that is essentially going to ignore this system as every system is populated almost round the clock, and not 1 guy either but many.
Provi might also be an exception. The worst case scenario is some alliances decide to go back to ice-berging and just griefing everyone else. That is the most likely scenario unfortunately. You cannot make it this easy for 100-200 dudes from a bloc to torch entire regions. No one cares about a little guy trying to stick it to the man. They don't. What is going to drive people to ice-berg/quit is blocs sending reavers into their homespace and burning it all to the ground. If this promoted fights it might be one thing, it won't. Faction warfare has proven this point out over and over.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1695
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Posted - 2015.03.04 18:43:15 -
[3] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:ESS is an embarassment. is it seriously still possible to put it inside an anomaly? why wasn't that fixed on the day of release?
All of the new "fight generating" additions made by CCP ended up being anything but fight generators. Siphons/ESS being the prime examples. The issue is these are fundamentally asymmetric. The optimal gameplay is not to actually fight over them but to ninja them.
That is essentially what is wrong with this SOV proposal. There is no reason to actually fight head to head when you can ninja, if they show, repeat, over and over. They are turning what was an EHP grind into a timer response grind. Again, optimal gameplay will be to ninja. There are several ways to solve this issue.
I personally like the idea of the module not being on anything smaller than a BC but that might be too far. Having POS be anchorable at planets next to stations/ihubs etc might also be a nice mitigation strategy. You want to force defenders to defend and live there but not have swarms of griefers just burning down half the galaxy with minimal effort.
As far as supers, defenders can slap on on an Aeon and park it on a beacon too. Anyone that hotdrops gets counterdropped by the blob.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1699
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Posted - 2015.03.04 21:40:25 -
[4] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:Gevlon Goblin wrote:The problem with the Entosis trolling isn't that it cannot be countered. It can. The famous "trollceptor" can all be countered by a Rifter with a T1 Entosis link orbiting the structure at 5 km, freezing the timer.
The problem is that countering Entosis trolling is so boring gameplay that you'll wish you'd still be grinding stations in Drakes. Either a mobile group needs to run up and down in the region whacking moles, or every system needs to have guards who just do nothing (or mine/rat at the keyboard) for 4 hours and respond to the ping. If they fail, everyone yell at them because 2 days later 10 nodes needs to be captured. If they win every time, they spent 4 hours of their lives at the keyboard with a handful of trivial killmails.
Again: 4 hours of focused gameplay and practically no result. At least you could watch TV between reloads with the Drake.
The attacker should commit something worth killing, so the defenders - if did their job well - go home with a nice killboard.
It happened. A Gevlon post that I actually agree with. I think I've just won Eve.
It kinda bothers me. I think i had been just recently saying broken clock in reference to him.
Even the broken clock got this one right Fozzie. Shameful
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1701
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Posted - 2015.03.04 23:47:06 -
[5] - Quote
Devi Loches wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Violent Morgana wrote:So I have gang of 20 ceptors, fit for extreme speed (20km/s for example and 150km locking range) and t2 Entosis Link. Who/What can stop my gang from reinforcing the whole region? The module needs to either disable any prop mods or make the ship stationary like siege does. That will give you the fights you are trying to force.
Also whats up with this prime time? Should we only have USTZ alliance, EUTZ alliance etc in huge blocks focused on very specific 4hour window in time? 20 (or fewer) Kitsunes. So thats 2bil in intys countered by 400mil in ewar frigs. So far this seems like the only reasonable counter to the trollceptors I've seen. It keeps the risks of defense roughly equal to that of the attackers. (Not the insanely expensive interceptors mentioned above, just the basic interceptors that would be common. Interceptor fleets vs ewar fleets.)
The main issue is not the ISK vs ISK. It is the huge imbalance of afk cloaking attacker time vs defender vigilance. Because the system quickly spirals into massive consequences with minimal time investment on the part of attackers it will result in a horribly lopsided mechanic.
For example, lets say blackops/reavers park 20-50 dudes afk cloaking in a region and their only goal is to flip/kill things the moment people aren't looking. So your choice as a defender is to have hyper vigilance every day during your period across all assets or suffer massive consequences. I doubt how many people realize how bad IHuBs are to deal with.
The only investment on an attackers part is an alt and some brief attention spans when they feel like watching. The investment on the defenders part is a period of hyper vigilance across every system they own. Multiply this by the attackers being able to do this across all of null at random and you see the problem. If you tell people they can lock dudes out of their capital with a single real fight then lawl. Why would anyone store any amount of material in a null station. Move to NPC null or a lowsec border system.
This is going to heavily incentivize ice-bergging again. The timers basically need to preserve 2-3 fights before huge consequences (freeport) and have a FAR bigger bonus to high indexes. A 5/5 index system should take at least 1 hour if not 2. At least until someone fixes freaking industry indexes god.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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