Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
BobGhengisKhan
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 18:16:00 -
[31]
But that doesn't make my points any less valid. It's bull**** to think an insurance company should repeatedly cover the loss of a corporation they have no stock in, when they are willingly leaving protected regions in order to fight daily, or pay out for people who who lost a ship in a military base after murdering innocents and firing on the MPs
|
Teeth
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 18:54:00 -
[32]
Agreed. I already pointed out to my corpmates that getting full insurance and blowing your ship at the end of the term is actually the most effective way to insure your ship. CCP, please reduce insurance (not by a huge amount) but to make it so losing ships hurts. If you manage to do some of that losing ships history thing, that would be great too.
|
Nostradamu5
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 18:59:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Nostradamu5 on 28/10/2003 19:08:58 A real change would be mimicking real insurance, where the premiums are higher if you live in a "bad" neighborhood, and depending on how many claims you've filed they could refuse to sell you insurance.
Of course I'll create a company to handle the high risk insureds, we'll gladly take your premiums but you'll pay hell to ever collect, we'll peek in every hose attached to your body both frontwards and as* backwards for any silly reason to dissallow your claim. Have A Nice Day.
From the WTF Insurance company We insure Pirates
They just have to file their claims in Jovian Space.
We Also have a new claims processing office just off the highway, you need to collect in person isk is never given to Alt's.
Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug!
Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
|
nono
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:07:00 -
[34]
Old,Old issue discussed at length in the past.
Build ship, destroy ship smile happily at the bank. Some polaris or dev will tell you it's not worth the time but as explained in the past it's damn easy money. Thorax's used to be a good meal ticket and pretty easy to flip for cash. Now whatever makes you sing.
P.S. Scorps are 50 million on the trade channel all the time. Don't tell me the builders arn't making money on them. So it's worth a tad more then the 2 million your worried about and more if your the builder.
|
BobGhengisKhan
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:14:00 -
[35]
Yeah, my friend used to build rifters then purposely blow them up for insurance, but I thought they fixed that **** months ago. Regardless of whether theyre making profit or simply not losing much, CCP has said there are too many BSes in the game- and putting in a ridiculous practice to keep the incompetent happy isn't helping us to thin the herd
|
Merjan
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:22:00 -
[36]
I am pretty much sure that pilots of Mega or Tempest are not finding it easy to replace their ships.
Premium insurance on Mega is 31 mill ISK and payout is 104 mill ISK.
So basicaly i would have to find ship builder who would readily supply me with Megas at 73 mill ISK to break even and to make money off of it price would have to be even cheaper.
Problem is not in insurance but in price undercutting by manufactureres.
Now stop complaining about your enemies as i know for fact that one of Sinister guys got 2 Scorpions blown out in 1 day.
Without this insuracne thinghy CA would be one hit hardest as you are most laziest to mine your own minerals.
And then when i come to think of it maybe CCP should terminate any kind of insurance.
|
DeeCo
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:35:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Without this insuracne thinghy CA would be one hit hardest as you are most laziest to mine your own minerals.
Have you ever seen a CA mining Op ? We mine regular and replace any ship we may lose to battle.
Click my sig for stats
|
Oosel
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:35:00 -
[38]
are peeps who are classed as outlaws/pirates alowed insurance as ive never had a neg sec rating i wouldnt know. or can they use that like they can still dock in law abiding empire space even though they are classed as a criminal. i can see ure point if this is true with a pirate as then they truelly do have nothing to lose
|
BobGhengisKhan
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:37:00 -
[39]
But see, they couldn't manage to destroy our battleships and make us get to mining if they wouldn't have received replacements twice in a row the first times they tried (not speaking about all the corps we fight. Some have a good record, but have only fought 2 to4 battles, which aren't that significant when you look at our corps that fight every single day)
|
Darth Maul
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:44:00 -
[40]
They still loose money when you figure having to replace modules. :p
|
|
BobGhengisKhan
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:47:00 -
[41]
Damnit, no. That screenshot that wont work is of a local chat from a guy happy to lose his dominix to sentry guns after he shot my reaper, losing 250 rails, small projectiles and small shield boosters is nothing
These retards deserve to lose the full 50 mil for their BSes, they're fighting a war, it's ridiculous to think insurance would cover that kind of loss.
The only insurance should be player-created insurance in some sort of alliance system
|
Lucas De'Thal
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:53:00 -
[42]
i think insurance is fine. who likes to spend a week to get the minerals for another battlship.
hey, if you really think you can profit from insurance fraud, try it out for a month. see how much you make. (pretty sure you'll find getting the minerals together is a pain in the ass and makes it not worth it )
it's a game, it's supposed to be fun. mining is not fun. leave insurance alone. ______________________________________________ Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter dev chat: Mar 18, 2004
hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S " dev chat: Feb 12, 2004 |
BobGhengisKhan
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 19:56:00 -
[43]
Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 28/10/2003 19:59:45 Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 28/10/2003 19:56:19 It's a game, but it's supposed to be an unforgiving bastard of a game in combat. Not this bull**** "go ahead and die 30 times, it doesnt matter."
I'm fighting in 4 wars, we want to ******* whittle down the opposition, not play pasty-cake with apocs and scorps
The player created content will quickly die when everyone realizes no one can win when npcs reward failure
|
Tinwhistle
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 20:05:00 -
[44]
Quote: i think insurance is fine. who likes to spend a week to get the minerals for another battlship. (...) it's a game, it's supposed to be fun. mining is not fun. leave insurance alone.
Sarcasm Warning! Do not read on if you are sensitive to that!
Why not simply give everyone all skills and a Bship from the start? After all, gaining money is not fun. It's far more fun to fly around the galaxy blasting everything with no risk at all! And while we are at it: eliminate that whole "death" and "clone" business! Have everyone respawn immediately after their ship is destroyed, in the same place and with a top of the line ship with all the best equipment! After all, travelling isn't fun either!
Sarcasm off
Do you really fail to see where this all will end?
Proudly flying the white skull on black! Tinwhistle of the Caribbean League |
Quasar
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 21:12:00 -
[45]
That person with the crappy mods is no doubt an isolated incident & was prolly wanting to upgrade to a lev 2 BS or something. I know it's impossible to make money off my insurance as it is.
Raven 85-90 mil Mods 10 mil insurance 32.x mil
total: ~130 mil
insurance payout: 110.x mil
I lose 20 mil. Maybe only 10 mil if it were naked, but who flys into battle naked?
Insurance is fine for some, but obviously not for other ships. No need to further screw ourselfs by screaming Nerf!!
|
BobGhengisKhan
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 21:26:00 -
[46]
Damnit, this is an RPG. Counter my argument in a manner assuming the game world is supposed to be somewhat realistic (yes, there's cybernetics and lasers, but insurance companies won't change)
Counter the argument by telling me why a company would continue to waste cash on morons from other corporations who are at war and continuously die in contested regions.
Or why someone who attacks miners in Yulai then shoots up the cops would be reimbursed after he is destroyed
|
Mr Blonde
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 21:41:00 -
[47]
lil kid + daddies book of curse words + something that upsets his poor little soul...
how cute.
The fact that insurance lightens the burden of losing ships is one of the reasons we actually get ANY pvp action in eve. podding/losing implants / losing a battle + needing to organize minerals etc is a fitting punishment for a lively PvP environment. boring hours of repetitive nothingness is just pointless. __________________________________________
Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?? |
Doctor One
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 21:50:00 -
[48]
Quote: Damnit, this is an RPG. Counter my argument in a manner assuming the game world is supposed to be somewhat realistic (yes, there's cybernetics and lasers, but insurance companies won't change)
Counter the argument by telling me why a company would continue to waste cash on morons from other corporations who are at war and continuously die in contested regions.
Or why someone who attacks miners in Yulai then shoots up the cops would be reimbursed after he is destroyed
Damnit Bob,
If I choose to argue with you, why would I argue under your flawed guidelines?
First of all, this is not an RPG, but it can be played as such by those that choose to do so. If you choose to do so, then go right ahead. Nobody will stop you, but they may point and laugh at you.
Secondly, this is a game. Most people play games to be entertained. That entertainment usually takes place in two forms, which are having fun and being a challenge.
All of us have paid to play this game. We bought the pretty box, and we pay the monthly fee. As the game is currently, it is tedious and frustrating to earn what it takes to get the big expensive ships. Who would bother doing this, if they didn't have insurance to fall back on, when griefing pieces of trash, that call themselves pirates, lurk throughout the gameworld?
See, they don't think this is a RPG game either. They think it's a PvP game. Although, when faced with an opponent that will actually have a chance to shoot them, they park their ships in a station, and talk trash over the local chat. They don't want to lose their hard-earned ships either. __________________________________________________
Proud member of Harbinger Heavy Industries
"Dont run... you'll just die tired!" |
Zraahd
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 21:53:00 -
[49]
Well this insurance system is in place because PVP is almost useless in a large scale conflict. You may have a problem with what that guy did in his battleship with the low level guns. But you seem to want CCp to change every little thing you see fit to change. Sorry, thats not the way the world works. Its all about the greater good for CCP. This system allows the most fun for the largest amount of people. They will not change that just for you.
I agree that it should hurt to loose a battleship. I used to have a tempest that was lost to a bug during a battle. I had basic insurance and that was my only saving grace. The GM's wouldn't do anything for me even tho I had screenshots and first hand accounts from both side of what happened. I still have yet to get another battleship because if found that for now a cruiser fitted in a certain way is a lot more fun for guerilla warfare.
Sure i still insure the ship, but it did pay off when I ctd'ed while being chased by a scorp. I logged back a quick as i could but all that was left was a pod. Thats two ships to flakey programming. Given that track record at a cost of over 150 million (when the mods are counted, and wasted insurance payments are counted). With the insurance payout of only close to 50 million combined. I would have to say that the isuurance helped but it did not even offset the 100 million isk loss completely.
I just have to remember that this is the reason that I mined so much in the beginning before I had good skills. It was to build up a bank account that I could use later when I was decent at PVP. Because nice mods and PVP is a very expensive risk.
|
Xander Teg
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 22:01:00 -
[50]
Quote: I am pretty much sure that pilots of Mega or Tempest are not finding it easy to replace their ships.
Premium insurance on Mega is 31 mill ISK and payout is 104 mill ISK.
So basicaly i would have to find ship builder who would readily supply me with Megas at 73 mill ISK to break even and to make money off of it price would have to be even cheaper.
So the pilots of Megas and Tempests who are in Mega corps with original BPs don't count then obviously, since 73M is more than enough to buy the minerals required for any BS.
_________________ "For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
|
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 22:08:00 -
[51]
Mega-corps don't need to rely on insurance scams for battleship replacements.
It's probably smaller less-efficient corps. that do it/rely on it.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Uzael
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 22:32:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Uzael on 28/10/2003 22:34:34 Edited by: Uzael on 28/10/2003 22:33:51
Quote: Damnit, this is an RPG. Counter my argument in a manner assuming the game world is supposed to be somewhat realistic (yes, there's cybernetics and lasers, but insurance companies won't change)
Counter the argument by telling me why a company would continue to waste cash on morons from other corporations who are at war and continuously die in contested regions.
Or why someone who attacks miners in Yulai then shoots up the cops would be reimbursed after he is destroyed
I have to agree with you on this. Once I had given it more thought (and my wife the insurance agent schooled me a little) I can say this. Insurance and the bussiness of selling insurance is based on the concept of measuring and excepting risk (by the insurance company). In the military we use a similar concept known as ORM (operational risk management) this system much like the insurance companies in real life operate on the singular ideal of "Is the risk worth the gain?" this meaning will the money provided by the client be worth accepting the risk of possibly having to replace that persons loss?. The risk management of an insurance company SHOULD be based on history, and enviromental conditions. As such, if you own a corvette but live in the ghetto the insurance company IS going to charge you more due to the condition in which you chose to place the insured item. Why? Because they assume more risk in this situation then say someone who has the corvette and parks it inside in their beverly hills estate. By the same token most people that have been in two or more wrecks in one year cant hardly even get insurance, so if you have lost 4 BS's in 5 days then you should prolly not be able to obtain insurance for a predetermined amount of time, this of course assumes the system worked the way it does in real life. But I must conceed that Bob does make a valid point, if they want to make insurance a realistic concept in the game then the current system should be removed in favor of a system and guages and then assumes risk according to the player history. -------------- UZAEL
|
Xander Teg
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 22:50:00 -
[53]
Quote: Mega-corps don't need to rely on insurance scams for battleship replacements.
It's probably smaller less-efficient corps. that do it/rely on it.
very true Josh, but consider if the NVA had premium insurance on all those BSs they lost to Biomass, You have to at least entertain the possibility that it might be a little backwards if they actually made money off of that battle. _________________ "For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
|
Xenovetica
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 22:50:00 -
[54]
I agree with the guy above me.
Honestly... regardless of rationality, one should NOT be able to make profit upon losing ones ship. It's rediculous.
I think the most depressing part of this thread is the fact that many people who were unaware of this prior to the thread will now start using this "feature" to beef up their wallets.
Can any of you who argue this point give a good reason, in relation to game balance, why people should be able to profit from getting blown up repeatedly and forever? And, "I don't like mining" isn't a valid reason. There are only a few sick individuals in this game who actually enjoy mining.
::glances at Xirtam::
|
Uzael
|
Posted - 2003.10.29 00:02:00 -
[55]
ROFLAO!!!! (At the Xirtam comment) -------------- UZAEL
|
Shintoko Akahoshi
|
Posted - 2003.10.29 02:46:00 -
[56]
Quote: Can any of you who argue this point give a good reason, in relation to game balance, why people should be able to profit from getting blown up repeatedly and forever? And, "I don't like mining" isn't a valid reason. There are only a few sick individuals in this game who actually enjoy mining.
I don't think anyone will argue that. I mean, I like making a profit from losing my ship, but I don't think for a minute that it is at all realistic.
On the other hand, is it really that big of a deal? Would you rather the devs spend their time implementing a realistic insurance system instead of, say, trying to reduce lag or fixing agility bugs?
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
BobGhengisKhan
|
Posted - 2003.10.29 03:06:00 -
[57]
Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 29/10/2003 03:10:30 Oh please, how long would it take to put this in immediately- no insurance given in 0 sec (it's your choice to enter zones filled with pirates and corps at war) and no insurance given to you when you're killed by Concord?
Like 2 lines of code, one for each case.
And yes, it is a big ******* deal. Thanks to CCPs lack of content, us players have filled the game with our own - starting wars. They become completely pointless when NPCs stupidly compensate every loss.
The CA is outnumbered - our only hope is whittling down the enemy. It's impossible to that with no insurance
You can say I'm selfish, but I'll say the same of the people who are ruining the game by taking away any risk of enterting 0 sec systems
|
Merjan
|
Posted - 2003.10.29 03:26:00 -
[58]
Bob start thinking logicaly.
Don't you think that 4 of your opponents are saying damn after all BS we have blown to them they are still flying.
In reality you guys would be one hit hardest because you have the most enemies and they would get through your fleet a lot faster then you would throught theirs.
|
Anaguma deTournet
|
Posted - 2003.10.29 03:40:00 -
[59]
I listen to these boards much more than I talk, but I have to agree with the original intent of the thread: insurance should go.
There are two issues: one is that it doesn't make sense from an in-game role-playing standpoint. In RL, insurance companies have a very firm financial base, and do quite well. If you could buy stock in an EVE insurance company, would you? Not a chance - they're so far in the the red, it makes your head spin.
But they're not there for the role-play effects. They're there for the people who want to lose ships and have few consequences for it. While it seems to be sound in the short-term from a game design standpoint ("Yay - more PvP!"), it's actually very detrimental for exactly the reasons Bob outlined - it's death for the long term.
The game is partly - in the large picture - about taking and holding territory by player-run corporations. But the only thing that would make a corp pull back from a piece of sky would be unacceptable losses. What could possibly be unacceptable about the current situation? There should be NO insurance at all.
"But then no one would use their battleships!" Wrong. Corps would use them, but would protect them with cruisers and frigates. Which is how it should have been all along. Battleships are _supposed_ to be expensive, and it's _supposed_ to hurt to lose one.
"But hurting isn't fun!" Hrm. You are quick enough to cry "carebear" until it's your BS that's on the line, eh? But what's fun about not being able to lose? It's the living on the edge that gives flavor. Danger, excitement - yes! Fully-insured and therefor flavorless combat - please, dear God, no! Think of how exciting it was fighting back when there wasn't insurance. Hasn't it lost something?
Once stations are in place, will they be insurable too? What'll be the point of staging a daring raid into enemy territory then? "Aha! I made you lose 2 rare modules!" Give me a break - and go back to playing Earth & Beyond. Loss and risk of loss are key in writing the great drama ahead of us. This insurace stuff just makes it Quake with a different interface. |
Archemedes
|
Posted - 2003.10.29 03:52:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Archemedes on 29/10/2003 03:54:39 Please stop acting like it's easy to replace a battleship. Sure if you're in a megacorp with BPs and huge mining ops or an alliance that lets you mine unlimited Bistot it's probably not too hard, BUT...
1) MANY PLAYERS ARE NOT IN ALLIANCES 2) MANY PLAYERS ARE NOT IN MEGACORPS
Now, I can make about 1 million ISK an hour in a cruiser and indy. At 4 hours a day that's 20-24 million a week. A battleship costs 50-60 million or so, so figure 2 to 3 weeks to replace a battleship. Modules run another 10 million or so (assuming no rares) so a level 1 battleship with low-end gear will take me a solid 3 weeks to replace without insurance.
Now, do you really think I'd risk a ship that takes THREE WEEKS to replace in PVP? Not likely. I'm about to get my first battleship and you better BELIEVE I'll insure it. (Sure I could have gotten one before, but why fly a battleship without high-level combat skills?)
For the average player who is in a small to mid-sized corp, not in an alliance, and not playing 8-12 hours a day, a battleship is a huge investment. Insurance softens the blow of losing a ship (it does NOT provide a profit when you count modules) enough that people can go out in 0.0 space without being stuck hauling cows and mining in secure space for weeks if they lose the ship...
Or are you saying that only people who get ships for mineral cost and have access to unlimited minerals deserve to fly battleships?
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |