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Thorn en Distel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.03.14 12:22:21 -
[271] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:It's the same old story, Emergent gameplay vs Themepark gameplay.
This type of player enjoys safe havens where everything is safe and predictable, so they try to avoid situations that can lead to emergent gameplay scenarios. But even with their efforts, eventually they will face their first unexpected road block created by other players, and then they will quit the game crying about griefing.
I don't think this is the case. Personally, I hate themeparks, play them through once and everything after is been-there-done-that boring. I much prefer sandboxes.
I'm also someone who prefers PVP games, some with WAY harsher rulesets than EVE (try permanently losing skills on each death, AND temporarily losing skills untill you pay a hefty price to get them back, AND suffering a debuff on each death AND having to pay to respawn).
And I still stay in an NPC corps.
/shrug |
Thorn en Distel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.03.14 12:35:35 -
[272] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Thorn en Distel wrote: Not doing those things is a valid choice in this game.
You still misunderstand. Your insistence to not share EVE with anyone you know, based solely on those hideous misconceptions about how the game works, is what I find to be both sad and bewildering.
Lack of reading skills much? I also said some of us DO play this game. We just don't make a corp here.
As to misconceptions... puhlease... don't confuse forum alt with main character age or actual experience with the game. Some of us have been around in EVE since launch. And we actually HAVE seen exactly what happened to a few guilds we know who tried making a corp here. Wardecced on day 1, lost interest in playing within a month. It's so much fun after all if you can't even undock your nooby velator without getting exploded...
Who says we're not sharing by the way... we do tell them exactly what to expect. Which is why most aren't even remotely interested in even trying the game. |
Erin Crawford
458
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Posted - 2015.03.14 14:13:14 -
[273] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Oh, really?
When I still played World of Warcraft with my wife, I once followed someone across the entire game server for 7 consecutive hours, ganking him all the while. My only reason? He pissed me off by taking an herbalism node...
...
"Those who talk donGÇÖt know. Those who know donGÇÖt talk. "
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4046
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Posted - 2015.03.14 15:06:50 -
[274] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Errata Sum
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.03.14 15:26:30 -
[275] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:When I still played World of Warcraft with my wife, I once followed someone across the entire game server for 7 consecutive hours, ganking him all the while.
Please point on the doll where the gnome touched you. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
139
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Posted - 2015.03.14 15:28:42 -
[276] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Thorn en Distel wrote: Mate, a lot of the stuff you get away with in EVE will get you insta-banned in any other game.
Oh, really? When I still played World of Warcraft with my wife, I once followed someone across the entire game server for 7 consecutive hours, ganking him all the while. My only reason? He pissed me off by taking an herbalism node. When he brought a GM in, the GM laughed and said "PvP happens on PvP servers." Even in WoW, one of the most legendarily wussy of MMOs, you can PvP freely within the rules. EVE's rules are simply more broad, with more avenues of attack. Quote: You may not consider it to be griefing, hell, the EVE devs may not consider it to be griefing, but you're all in a rather small minority, even for full-on PVP games (which EVE really, really isn't). Which kinda explains the problem with new player retention too.
Yeah, no. You do not get to define your own terms here. Only CCP's definition matters in this context, you can wave whichever dictionary you like at me. PvP activity in this game, within the rules set by CCP, is not griefing by definition. Whether your attitude agrees or not.
And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want.
The End....good, you came around to understand the meaning of sandbox.
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
1916
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Posted - 2015.03.14 16:30:39 -
[277] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:It's the same old story, Emergent gameplay vs Themepark gameplay.
This type of player enjoys safe havens where everything is safe and predictable, so they try to avoid situations that can lead to emergent gameplay scenarios. But even with their efforts, eventually they will face their first unexpected road block created by other players, and then they will quit the game crying about griefing.
What a load of bigoted, elitist crap. Even if these horrid generalizations were correct, so what? That's their business. When you pay their sub fees then you get to dictate and judge how someone else plays. Until then, step down from your high mountain and breathe. Seems the thin air up where you are has deprived your brain of oxygen and damaged your critical thinking skills.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
3482
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Posted - 2015.03.14 16:43:41 -
[278] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:
And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want.
This is logically impossible. Everyone cannot be simultaneously allowed to play single player and multiplayer at the same time. One style of gameplay must be secondary to the other.
In EVE, your right to play single player ends when someone decides to shoot you, or .01 ISK you, or insert any PVP action here.
It is as simple as that.
Call me Joe.
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Gardav
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.03.14 18:46:23 -
[279] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:Syn Shi wrote:
And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want.
This is logically impossible. Everyone cannot be simultaneously allowed to play single player and multiplayer at the same time. One style of gameplay must be secondary to the other. In EVE, your right to play single player ends when someone decides to shoot you, or .01 ISK you, or insert any PVP action here. It is as simple as that.
At no time in EVE have I ever played it as a single player game, nor have I ever been confused about that issue. EVE is a multiplayer game in so many ways they can't be counted. After chatting with others in NPC Corps over the years I get the sense that they too realize EVE is a multiplayer as well.
Yet some of us chose to keep our characters in NPC Corps. In a Multiplayer Game. The Original Poster of this thread asked why and some of us have tried to explain why. We don't expect everyone to understand our reasoning.
It's simply a choice we each have made in this Sandbox MMO. The beauty of Sandbox MMOs is that we all are allowed by the Devs to make whatever choices we wish to (within the game rules), and in so doing we are seeing to our own satisfaction as customers better than any Customer Service Rep employed by CCP ever could, not to mention we contribute to the entire game as a whole and thus make it a richer experience for all.
See You In Space. |
Orlacc
840
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Posted - 2015.03.14 19:14:27 -
[280] - Quote
Thorn en Distel wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:It's the same old story, Emergent gameplay vs Themepark gameplay.
This type of player enjoys safe havens where everything is safe and predictable, so they try to avoid situations that can lead to emergent gameplay scenarios. But even with their efforts, eventually they will face their first unexpected road block created by other players, and then they will quit the game crying about griefing. I don't think this is the case. Personally, I hate themeparks, play them through once and everything after is been-there-done-that boring. I much prefer sandboxes. I'm also someone who prefers PVP games, some with WAY harsher rulesets than EVE (try permanently losing skills on each death, AND temporarily losing skills untill you pay a hefty price to get them back, AND suffering a debuff on each death AND having to pay to respawn). And I still stay in an NPC corps. /shrug
Which elf games do this? Permanent skill loss?
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
140
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Posted - 2015.03.14 19:57:57 -
[281] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:Syn Shi wrote:
And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want.
This is logically impossible. Everyone cannot be simultaneously allowed to play single player and multiplayer at the same time. One style of gameplay must be secondary to the other. In EVE, your right to play single player ends when someone decides to shoot you, or .01 ISK you, or insert any PVP action here. It is as simple as that.
Moving goal posts and Alice in Wonderland logic.
E for effort. |
Prince Kobol
2471
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Posted - 2015.03.14 20:03:30 -
[282] - Quote
I will throw my own two pence in.
NPC Corps are one of many things CCP has gotten badly wrong and failed to correct it until it has become almost impossible to do anything with.
For me NPC corps should of only ever of been something that a player stayed in short while whilst searching for another corp or when taking time out.
Yes I agree that war decs are complete rubbish and need to be completely scrapped and started over again but it will never happen.
The thing is this topic has come up time and time again and the truth of the matter nothing will ever change because CCP will never nerf NPC corps or do awsy with war decs whilst the PCU continues on its downwards curve and they are losing subs so get used to it. |
MiSANTHR0PE
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2015.03.14 20:10:51 -
[283] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Thorn en Distel wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:It's the same old story, Emergent gameplay vs Themepark gameplay.
This type of player enjoys safe havens where everything is safe and predictable, so they try to avoid situations that can lead to emergent gameplay scenarios. But even with their efforts, eventually they will face their first unexpected road block created by other players, and then they will quit the game crying about griefing. I don't think this is the case. Personally, I hate themeparks, play them through once and everything after is been-there-done-that boring. I much prefer sandboxes. I'm also someone who prefers PVP games, some with WAY harsher rulesets than EVE (try permanently losing skills on each death, AND temporarily losing skills untill you pay a hefty price to get them back, AND suffering a debuff on each death AND having to pay to respawn). And I still stay in an NPC corps. /shrug Which elf games do this? Permanent skill loss?
Haven & Hearth
My main lived in npc corp for around a year, now in a one man band corp, for no other reason than I'm not too sociable, slightly introvert and can be a little shy, I did try two player corps and enjoyed the fleets and playing with others, but not so much the social side, most corps expect you to be chatty on coms etc, which i understand, but its just not for me, it tires me out.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34772
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Posted - 2015.03.14 20:59:40 -
[284] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Jvpiter wrote:Syn Shi wrote: And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want.
This is logically impossible. Everyone cannot be simultaneously allowed to play single player and multiplayer at the same time. One style of gameplay must be secondary to the other. In EVE, your right to play single player ends when someone decides to shoot you, or .01 ISK you, or insert any PVP action here. It is as simple as that. Moving goal posts and Alice in Wonderland logic. E for effort. I don't think he's moved the goalposts at all.
I also don't think the definition of sandbox is that everyone is allowed to play the way they want.
It's more commonly defined as placing minimal limitations on players, so they have freedom to choose how and when to do things. It might seem the same as what you wrote, but it isn't.
None of us are allowed to play the way we want all the time. Interaction with other players making their choices leading to conflict (not just shooting, but conflict in choices) is going to make someone change what they are doing.
I think that is what Jvpiter was saying. Sandbox yes. Everyone allowed to play the way they want, impossible.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Caladin Brood
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2015.03.14 21:02:01 -
[285] - Quote
why? ok case in point, i decided to try a new char out an joined a brand new corp, social blah de blah
boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec
make of it as you will, but to put it simply, to retain new players this needs to stop |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34777
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Posted - 2015.03.14 21:29:56 -
[286] - Quote
Caladin Brood wrote:why? ok case in point, i decided to try a new char out an joined a brand new corp, social blah de blah
boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec
make of it as you will, but to put it simply, to retain new players this needs to stop Sorry you had 10 wardecs like that, but they aren't that bad.
If you are in the right Corp, they are easily managed and everyone continues to have fun.
Wardecs aren't something to be scared of or ticked off about. The worst that happens is a lost ship and pod, both of which are expendable tools in this game anyway. But that can mostly be avoided in a good Corp.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Caladin Brood
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.03.14 21:38:53 -
[287] - Quote
They dont bother me as i dont bother about isk or killboards, it is just a prime example of how a new player who does not know anything is introduced to eve, luckily for me it was a alt an not a actually "new player" experience, if it was a new player experience i'd a just lol'd an been thankfull for the trial |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34780
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Posted - 2015.03.14 22:30:35 -
[288] - Quote
Caladin Brood wrote:They dont bother me as i dont bother about isk or killboards, it is just a prime example of how a new player who does not know anything is introduced to eve, luckily for me it was a alt an not a actually "new player" experience, if it was a new player experience i'd a just lol'd an been thankfull for the trial Which Corp was this?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Caladin Brood
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.03.14 22:39:47 -
[289] - Quote
Doesnt matter, naming a corp on these boards just invites more decs, same as disagreeing with ppl |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4129
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Posted - 2015.03.14 22:45:11 -
[290] - Quote
WarDecs are abused and often NPC corps offer the only recourse to being continually harassed.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12134
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Posted - 2015.03.14 22:58:48 -
[291] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote: And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want.
Nope.
You can try to succeed at whatever you want.
But you don't get to automatically succeed at whatever you try. Since EVE is a PvP game, other people get to have their say.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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ProBear Johnsson
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.03.14 23:56:11 -
[292] - Quote
. |
Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
135
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Posted - 2015.03.15 00:18:41 -
[293] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Caladin Brood wrote:why? ok case in point, i decided to try a new char out an joined a brand new corp, social blah de blah
boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec
make of it as you will, but to put it simply, to retain new players this needs to stop Sorry you had 10 wardecs like that, but they aren't that bad. If you are in the right Corp, they are easily managed and everyone continues to have fun. Wardecs aren't something to be scared of or ticked off about. The worst that happens is a lost ship and pod, both of which are expendable tools in this game anyway. But that can mostly be avoided in a good Corp.
They are not manageable, as eve combat pvp is a) boring b) not accessible to people without at least 50 million SP. Being camped is not fun. Being unable to undock is not fun. Go ask eve uni how many "students" they lost to lockouts.
The only way to avoid a ship loss is dropping corp. If you undock in a grief dec, most of the time you will get tackled by a neutral alt, which will hold you still just long enough for a grief deccer ceptor to arrive.
Losing a ship and a pod in a fight is very frustrating and will deter even me from continuing to play eve. Even if it's just a frigate and empty pod - every time I lost some of those I took a break from eve for a few months. Mostly by unsubbing. And that is me, who has 11-figure wallet, and has never been caught in a barge or pve ship with my pants down. Imagine what it does to a new player and you'll get the picture.
While I do not talk about war decs, grief decs I believe to be #1 source of bad retention.
A crap ton equals 1000 crap loads in metric, and roughly 91 shit loads 12 bull shits and 1 puppy's unforeseen disaster in imperial.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34781
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Posted - 2015.03.15 00:41:21 -
[294] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:They are not manageable, ... They are totally manageable. We have 2 wardecs against us at the moment.
As a pvp Alliance, we have no problem with that whatsoever and we have many new players, none of whom are worried either because we help them manage the issue.
As for eve-uni, they teach people to be an F1 monkey. Great to go to for non-pvp related training, but if you want to learn pvp, don't join eve-uni.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12135
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Posted - 2015.03.15 00:57:25 -
[295] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote: While I do not talk about war decs, grief decs I believe to be #1 source of bad retention.
You believe wrong.
CCP themselves have stated that they can find zero link between non consensual PvP and retention.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
231
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Posted - 2015.03.15 01:16:24 -
[296] - Quote
Niobe Song wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Thorn en Distel wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:So 13 pages in and I have yet to see anybody give a good reason why players should leave a NPC corp if they are based in HS and even low sec depending on what they are doing
For the very same reason we support a football team, for the very same reason we wave a flag. for the very same reason we feel pride in what we create. good enough ? Not really.... what would it take to get you to join a real corp then ? I'm in a real corp. If you mean what would make me join a player run corp...nothing. There is absolutely nothing that will make me leave CAS. You can cry and kick and scream and start as many threads on the topic as you like. But if CCP ever does anything to really obliterate the NPC corps I'll just unsub my accounts.
i'm not crying nor screaming.nor kicking, nor have i ever started a thread about NPC corps. if you're just another,, hey CCP if you change something i'll leave,, then away you go now, because it's never long in EVE before shite changes. i couldn't care less really, EVE is all about what you want to do personally, so if being in an NPC corp is what you want. then knock yourself out. but strange that you wave your CAS flag. well at least you get being in a group isn't a bad thing at all.
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
140
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Posted - 2015.03.15 01:35:47 -
[297] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Syn Shi wrote: And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want.
Nope. You can try to succeed at whatever you want. But you don't get to automatically succeed at whatever you try. Since EVE is a PvP game, other people get to have their say.
If you are so much into pvp why are you hiding in hi-sec and avoiding other like minded individuals.
Answer: Because they shoot back and that isn't what you want.
Code showed how much into pvp they were when they all logged out of the tourney due to ships being banned. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34781
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Posted - 2015.03.15 01:43:33 -
[298] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:If you are so much into pvp why are you hiding in hi-sec and avoiding other like minded individuals. What? There is no pvp in highsec and no one that wants to pvp in highsec?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12137
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Posted - 2015.03.15 01:48:33 -
[299] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote: If you are so much into pvp why are you hiding in hi-sec and avoiding other like minded individuals.
Oh, that's easy. Because highsec has more targets, and more deserving targets. No one needs PvP visited on them more than the people who insist that it shouldn't happen.
Cry more about how I'm allowed to make a choice you don't like.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
315
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Posted - 2015.03.15 01:59:38 -
[300] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Syn Shi wrote: And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want.
Nope. You can try to succeed at whatever you want. But you don't get to automatically succeed at whatever you try. Since EVE is a PvP game, other people get to have their say.
Hmm. The only place I see succeed written is in your response. |
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