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Kieyra Marie Julian
The L4 Runners
0
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:32:39 -
[1] - Quote
I can't be the only one to feel like this.
The guns, especially on bigger ships feel so powerless, it looks puny (Yes I know it's relative to the ship size it's actually big, this is also a problem with the game where you get no sense of size, everything feels like the same until something smaller comes up to you) and gives no sense of satisfaction when you fire it, you don't feel it's a huge gun, it feels like I'm blowing wet paper balls out of a straw, you don't feel the kick of the weapon nor have any impressive sound cue that you weapon just unloaded a salvo of destruction.
TL;DR:
- Weapons look too small relative to ships sizes
- Weapon sound needs a rehaul
What I think
Instead of having multiple turret graphically represent turret fitted on ship, why not just throw in less turrets and make them bigger? and of course, maybe try a different sound
Now many of you might say well why care when you're just going to zoom out all the time and watch the tactical overlay
It's a coherent experience that is part of the immersion, it's like watching a movie without any bgm, I for one like to zoom in on my ship once in a while to see it fire and since CCP is overhauling ship designs in the past few expansions, why not take a bit more time to make them more impressive |
Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:44:32 -
[2] - Quote
Guns are appropriate sizes. Asian MMOs may suit you as for some reason they always have huge weapons. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
822
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:48:57 -
[3] - Quote
sound pass...yes
animation pass....yes
Having 1hour rate of fire weapon and half a sec animation on it is wasted opportunity just sayin
Size......size is right |
Kieyra Marie Julian
The L4 Runners
0
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:49:10 -
[4] - Quote
Quanah Comanche wrote:Guns are appropriate sizes. Asian MMOs may suit you as for some reason they always have huge weapons.
I'm talking about proportion relative to ship size, even battleships of the old had main guns with a size ratio that made them look bad ass. You're firing peashooters here |
Kieyra Marie Julian
The L4 Runners
0
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:51:24 -
[5] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:sound pass...yes animation pass....yes Having 1hour rate of fire weapon and half a sec animation on it is wasted opportunity just sayin Size......size is right
That's is what i mean, if i had a gun like in the vid (which i feel is rather appropriate for a battleship or dreadnought, heck even titans) I wouldn't complain, and I'm sure guns are the right size, but there's nothing to show that size, the proportions does not make the size feel it's there
Eve in general has problems when showing proportion (understandable considering quite often there's nothing in space to show it) |
Shailagh
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
30
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:52:29 -
[6] - Quote
lol who uses turrets anymore in Drones Online? Get a Gila/rattlesnake or isktar dude |
Trey Kutoi
Nyarlthotep Holdings Ltd.
37
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:54:04 -
[7] - Quote
Eve Has Sound?
on a more serious note, most of the eve sounds are terrible enough that I turned them off, save for a few critical ones (ie hull alarm) and some ambiance, (music, some thruster sounds, cargo scanner) I wouldn't mind a full sound remake, but I don't see it happening when we have more important things like "ruin ship models 2015" and whatnot |
Serene Repose
2114
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:54:15 -
[8] - Quote
It's marvelous to read someone's unconcious admission as to why they aren't a professional designer. You see a lot of that here.
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Qn'qura Zalas Zula
Aeon Ascendant
13
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Posted - 2015.01.22 04:55:20 -
[9] - Quote
Makes me wonder how crazy my Incursus would have looked if the Capital blasters i mistakenly bought while drunk actually DID fit
Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance
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Kaelynne Rose
WTB Somalians
0
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Posted - 2015.01.22 05:35:12 -
[10] - Quote
look at the ship real life size chart thingy. u are asking for guns that would be like several football lengths long. your crcruisebattleships are giiiiiiiiaaaant. guns shoulsnt be miles long dude.
super space people in the future will have smaller better guns if anything, not bigger.
also DRONES lol@turdets |
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Kaelynne Rose
WTB Somalians
0
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Posted - 2015.01.22 05:37:21 -
[11] - Quote
Kieyra Marie Julian wrote: nor have any impressive sound cue that you weapon just unloaded a salvo of destruction. ? and of course, maybe try a different sound
space has no sound bear |
Kieyra Marie Julian
The L4 Runners
0
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Posted - 2015.01.22 05:47:22 -
[12] - Quote
Kaelynne Rose wrote:look at the ship real life size chart thingy. u are asking for guns that would be like several football lengths long. your crcruisebattleships are giiiiiiiiaaaant. guns shoulsnt be miles long dude.
super space people in the future will have smaller better guns if anything, not bigger.
also DRONES lol@turdets
Still wouldn't stop biggers guns and sexier sounds from being awesome though =p |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1356
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Posted - 2015.01.22 05:57:07 -
[13] - Quote
Kieyra Marie Julian wrote:Kaelynne Rose wrote:look at the ship real life size chart thingy. u are asking for guns that would be like several football lengths long. your crcruisebattleships are giiiiiiiiaaaant. guns shoulsnt be miles long dude.
super space people in the future will have smaller better guns if anything, not bigger.
also DRONES lol@turdets Still wouldn't stop biggers guns and sexier sounds from being awesome though =p
turret envy ??? |
Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
70
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Posted - 2015.01.22 06:15:35 -
[14] - Quote
I feel like the railguns are a little underwhelming visually. But laser weapons and projectile turrets are both very appropriate. And, let's face it, a missile launcher is a missile launcher -- not really going to be visually spectacular. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
781
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Posted - 2015.01.22 06:34:16 -
[15] - Quote
Summary, "I looked in the mirror of my 3rd person view and felt my phallic object might not be big enough."
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Skydell
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
670
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Posted - 2015.01.22 07:13:55 -
[16] - Quote
If realism is the concern, the size of the turet doesn't really bother me.
The idea that we are limited to 249 km when this is possible now kind of leaves me wondering.
Of course in reality if we are to become a space dwelling race the first thing I would figure out how to do is make a probe I can warp to and the only way you would ever find me is if I wanted you to. That wouldn't make for a very good combat driven game though. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5890
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Posted - 2015.01.22 07:23:38 -
[17] - Quote
The turrets are perfectly fine. The ships are too big.
And don't ever try to make sense of the cargo hold dimensions.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Kieyra Marie Julian
The L4 Runners
0
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Posted - 2015.01.22 07:32:43 -
[18] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:The turrets are perfectly fine. The ships are too big.
And don't ever try to make sense of the cargo hold dimensions.
That's what I meant, proportion is off..let me edit the title so it causes no more confusion... |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
462
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Posted - 2015.01.22 08:08:40 -
[19] - Quote
And, as we all know - it isn't the size. It's the sense of humor.
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Vyl Vit
1020
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Posted - 2015.01.22 08:10:43 -
[20] - Quote
Of course, super space people of the future won't have learned not to fight wars. They're as natural as ... inflated currency. Boob jobs. Movie sequels. Hot dogs.
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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VaIefar Drekavac
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:05:40 -
[21] - Quote
Kaelynne Rose wrote:look at the ship real life size chart thingy. u are asking for guns that would be like several football lengths long. your crcruisebattleships are giiiiiiiiaaaant. guns shoulsnt be miles long dude.
super space people in the future will have smaller better guns if anything, not bigger.
also DRONES lol@turdets
It's not like 11inch is THAT big (that's what she said).
Anyways @OP: is it ever big enough? I mean, really? |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1903
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Posted - 2015.01.22 13:44:54 -
[22] - Quote
Quanah Comanche wrote:Guns are appropriate sizes. Asian MMOs may suit you as for some reason they always have huge weapons. Relevant
I've always thought BS guns looked too small. The other classes are ok.
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
850
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Posted - 2015.01.22 18:57:01 -
[23] - Quote
Shailagh wrote:lol who uses turrets anymore in Drones Online? Get a Gila/rattlesnake or isktar dude
Yep the game is now called EvE: Ishtar Online. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
120
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Posted - 2015.01.22 19:06:18 -
[24] - Quote
Qn'qura Zalas Zula wrote:Makes me wonder how crazy my Incursus would have looked if the Capital blasters i mistakenly bought while drunk actually DID fit
They might. They will be offline, but would sit on the hardpoints.
I used to fit x2 1400s on my cheetah. Were offline, but looked hilarious/menacing at the same time. Can only mount them in space though (unless they fixed this). Need a POS, or maybe mobile depot (havent tried depot). |
Yehala
FISHERS INC
1
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:05:17 -
[25] - Quote
I kinda agree, I'd like bigger turrets, especially on BattleShips
GÿàGÿà SERVICE - Spreadsheets Packs ! GÿàGÿà
------- Trading, Manufacturing & Mining -------
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
19469
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:18:09 -
[26] - Quote
Yeah! Turrets need to be bigger dammit!
Every other game I play, I can wield a sword that is taller than I am and swing it with the speed and precision of a kitana, or an axe that dwarfs my dwarf. To be appropriately sized in comparison, every ship needs to be able to fit one size larger turrets! Frigs with cruiser guns, cruisers with battleship guns and battleships with capital turrets! No clue what caps would use... I guess CCP better start designing XXL turrets or there will be hell to pay!
Maybe we need the spaceship equivalent of endgame mithril bikini armor for our ships too. You cant have a Stigmatic Epic Demon Sword of Polarized Blightness without the matching Demon Thong of the Destructive Fire Panda Mage Dragon. And capes. With fur. Who cares if its murder, this is serious business dammit.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
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inta Vakaria
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:23:13 -
[27] - Quote
To quote a certain gunnery chief "This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferrous slug. Feel the weight. Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates one, to one-point-three percent of lightspeed. It impacts with the force a 38 kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means, Sir Isacc Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-***** in space!" The same principle applies in eve, with the speed a projectile travels it doesn't need to be big to do huge damage, meaning the guns do not have to be huge either. |
Kieyra Marie Julian
The L4 Runners
0
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:38:23 -
[28] - Quote
inta Vakaria wrote:To quote a certain gunnery chief "This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferrous slug. Feel the weight. Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates one, to one-point-three percent of lightspeed. It impacts with the force a 38 kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means, Sir Isacc Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-***** in space!" The same principle applies in eve, with the speed a projectile travels it doesn't need to be big to do huge damage, meaning the guns do not have to be huge either.
That's an awesome phrase (i love mass effect)
So now tell me do you feel that awesomeness when your gun fires in eve? |
Amarant'h
Fistful of Finns Triumvirate.
31
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Posted - 2015.01.23 06:56:31 -
[29] - Quote
Shailagh wrote:lol who uses turrets anymore in Drones Online? Get a Gila/rattlesnake or isktar dude
..and before this, it was "lol who uses drones and guns in missile online? Get a drake"
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
464
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Posted - 2015.01.23 07:20:31 -
[30] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:I know a short little guy with a turret so BIG he can't be tipped over from behind, but if knocked on his back, he looks like this magnificent flag pole! She's referring to me. (It's hard to be humble.)
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
274
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Posted - 2015.01.23 10:52:36 -
[31] - Quote
No. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
798
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Posted - 2015.01.23 14:38:37 -
[32] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Yeah! Turrets need to be bigger dammit!
Every other game I play, I can wield a sword that is taller than I am and swing it with the speed and precision of a kitana, or an axe that dwarfs my dwarf. To be appropriately sized in comparison, every ship needs to be able to fit one size larger turrets! Frigs with cruiser guns, cruisers with battleship guns and battleships with capital turrets! No clue what caps would use... I guess CCP better start designing XXL turrets or there will be hell to pay!
Maybe we need the spaceship equivalent of endgame mithril bikini armor for our ships too. You cant have a Stigmatic Epic Demon Sword of Polarized Blightness without the matching Demon Thong of the Destructive Fire Panda Mage Dragon. And capes. With fur. Who cares if its murder, this is serious business dammit. Every now and then you come up with gold. I liked this tongue in cheek post.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9430
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Posted - 2015.01.23 15:19:54 -
[33] - Quote
Obviously the gun should be bigger! |
Kieyra Marie Julian
The L4 Runners
0
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Posted - 2015.01.23 22:03:34 -
[34] - Quote
That's a destroyer....please read my post |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3371
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Posted - 2015.01.23 23:01:04 -
[35] - Quote
So the bigger gun whose size we know, it's the 1400 mm Artillery. With a hefty bore to length ratio of 1:45 ,this mans the gun barrel is some 63 meters long (that's 70 yards for you Imperial heathens).
BUT, that gun is mounted on a ship -say, a Machariel- 1,600 meters long, or 25 times longer than the gun. If it was a handgun and you had it in your hands, it would be roughly the size of a needle.
Remember, in EVE even a Rifter is almot as big as a 747.
Tl;DR: EVE guns are large enough, it's just that EVE ships are massive.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
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Ciel993
Vision Partners End of Natural Lifetime
0
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Posted - 2015.01.24 03:51:42 -
[36] - Quote
It's not the turret that's too small... More like, ships are too big and are fiitted with a lot of turret of same size. tbh I would rather wish ccp introduce different sizes of high slots, like, a battleship can fit two huge, badass capital class guns and a couple of smaller, large class guns, or something like that. but we all know this is impossible due to too many works |
Ciel993
Vision Partners End of Natural Lifetime
0
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Posted - 2015.01.24 04:06:07 -
[37] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So the bigger gun whose size we know, it's the 1400 mm Artillery. With a hefty bore to length ratio of 1:45 ,this mans the gun barrel is some 63 meters long (that's 70 yards for you Imperial heathens).
BUT, that gun is mounted on a ship -say, a Machariel- 1,600 meters long, or 25 times longer than the gun. If it was a handgun and you had it in your hands, it would be roughly the size of a needle.
Remember, in EVE even a Rifter is almot as big as a 747.
Tl;DR: EVE guns are large enough, it's just that EVE ships are massive.
IRL battleships are around 250-300m long with main guns' barrel around 18m long (take Iowa for example). So theoretically a ship of Mach's size, the gun barrels should be around 120m long, which is barely the case. For now, larger ships in eve are a bit like early WWI dreadnoughts, which contains numerous smaller calibre turrets instead of a couple of huge, badass main guns. Although I doubt ccp would ever change this. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6526
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Posted - 2015.01.24 04:37:56 -
[38] - Quote
Ciel993 wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So the bigger gun whose size we know, it's the 1400 mm Artillery. With a hefty bore to length ratio of 1:45 ,this mans the gun barrel is some 63 meters long (that's 70 yards for you Imperial heathens).
BUT, that gun is mounted on a ship -say, a Machariel- 1,600 meters long, or 25 times longer than the gun. If it was a handgun and you had it in your hands, it would be roughly the size of a needle.
Remember, in EVE even a Rifter is almot as big as a 747.
Tl;DR: EVE guns are large enough, it's just that EVE ships are massive. IRL battleships are around 250-300m long with main guns' barrel around 18m long (take Iowa for example). So theoretically a ship of Mach's size, the gun barrels should be around 120m long, which is barely the case. For now, larger ships in eve are a bit like early WWI dreadnoughts, which contains numerous smaller calibre turrets instead of a couple of huge, badass main guns. Although I doubt ccp would ever change this. Well I guess, the couple huge guns thing is what our actual dreadnaughts do
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
282
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Posted - 2015.01.24 08:09:58 -
[39] - Quote
Do the guns on a Rifter still look cartoony big, or did they size them down? Havent flown one in a while, but remember the guns looking stupid big on it. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3675
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Posted - 2015.01.24 10:08:39 -
[40] - Quote
Ciel993 wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So the bigger gun whose size we know, it's the 1400 mm Artillery. With a hefty bore to length ratio of 1:45 ,this mans the gun barrel is some 63 meters long (that's 70 yards for you Imperial heathens).
BUT, that gun is mounted on a ship -say, a Machariel- 1,600 meters long, or 25 times longer than the gun. If it was a handgun and you had it in your hands, it would be roughly the size of a needle.
Remember, in EVE even a Rifter is almot as big as a 747.
Tl;DR: EVE guns are large enough, it's just that EVE ships are massive. IRL battleships are around 250-300m long with main guns' barrel around 18m long (take Iowa for example). So theoretically a ship of Mach's size, the gun barrels should be around 120m long, which is barely the case. For now, larger ships in eve are a bit like early WWI dreadnoughts, which contains numerous smaller calibre turrets instead of a couple of huge, badass main guns. Although I doubt ccp would ever change this.
Gun size is determined by the bore, not the size of the ship. The size of the ship is determined by storage (of ammo, fuel, crew and supplies) and protection. This is why the battlecruiser class was born, to bear the bigger possible guns on the smaller possible hull.
I think that guns in EVE are the right size, provided how they work (effectively without firing arches) and the insane bulk of the ships.
But then, shall we remember, EVE ships are empty shells. They are not supposed to "function" or "make sense" from a engineering/matherial POV.
Else the 1400 mm rounds would take a wee bit more space than 0.025 m3 per unit and messing with the hold of freighters would require a little more work than writing a number on a table...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Kieyra Marie Julian
Odin's Brotherhood
3
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Posted - 2015.01.25 03:23:13 -
[41] - Quote
Again guys, i'm talking about proportion =\
Ship too big Guns too small
Either way I do hope one day I will feel the satisfaction of firing my weapons |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
806
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Posted - 2015.01.25 05:40:55 -
[42] - Quote
Kieyra Marie Julian wrote:Again guys, i'm talking about proportion =\ Ship too big Guns too small I got that and I disagree.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Trajan Unknown
Running with Dogs Nerfed Alliance Go Away
1
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Posted - 2015.01.25 11:26:05 -
[43] - Quote
I don-¦t know to what kind of "battleship" the OP is referring but when you look at the old WWII battleships the guns look anything but "badass" to me. They are pretty damn impressive if you see them in comparison to a human next to the turret but compared to the ship they look well, normal? Same goes for the battlecruisers and stuff. When you look at them, the guns are not that expressive but when you see them next to a human or in action they are pretty scary. When I flew next to titans they were fricking impressive but from a distance they looked well, normal. I like it pretty much as is because you feel "big" in a cruiser till you fly next to a battleship/dread/carrier or even mothership/titan. :D
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Kieyra Marie Julian
Odin's Brotherhood
3
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Posted - 2015.01.25 11:40:26 -
[44] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Kieyra Marie Julian wrote:Again guys, i'm talking about proportion =\ Ship too big Guns too small I got that and I disagree.
actually wasn't replying to you there, oh well, shoulda quoted.
If you feel the current way is satisfying then oh well. I respect your choice |
Kieyra Marie Julian
Odin's Brotherhood
3
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Posted - 2015.01.25 11:42:25 -
[45] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:I don-¦t know to what kind of "battleship" the OP is referring but when you look at the old WWII battleships the guns look anything but "badass" to me. They are pretty damn impressive if you see them in comparison to a human next to the turret but compared to the ship they look well, normal? Same goes for the battlecruisers and stuff. When you look at them, the guns are not that expressive but when you see them next to a human or in action they are pretty scary. When I flew next to titans they were fricking impressive but from a distance they looked well, normal. I like it pretty much as is because you feel "big" in a cruiser till you fly next to a battleship/dread/carrier or even mothership/titan. :D
Well no, if you looked at the proportion of gun to ship and you look at the gun to shop proportion of eve you see a difference.
And then there's when they fire. That's when they're f**cking impressive. Eve it's just...meh |
Hal Morsh
Icendus Corux Warp to Cyno.
247
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Posted - 2015.01.25 15:25:28 -
[46] - Quote
Kieyra Marie Julian wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:I don-¦t know to what kind of "battleship" the OP is referring but when you look at the old WWII battleships the guns look anything but "badass" to me. They are pretty damn impressive if you see them in comparison to a human next to the turret but compared to the ship they look well, normal? Same goes for the battlecruisers and stuff. When you look at them, the guns are not that expressive but when you see them next to a human or in action they are pretty scary. When I flew next to titans they were fricking impressive but from a distance they looked well, normal. I like it pretty much as is because you feel "big" in a cruiser till you fly next to a battleship/dread/carrier or even mothership/titan. :D
Well no, if you looked at the proportion of gun to ship and you look at the gun to shop proportion of eve you see a difference. And then there's when they fire. That's when they're f**cking impressive. Eve it's just...meh
EVE guns are pretty big. They only have to be big enough to be functional. I mean if THAT was the complaint, then starwars would be your worst nightmare. I mean look how tiny the guns on THOSE ships are.
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121223231202/disney/images/a/a8/ImpStarDestroyer-SWI125.jpg
Look for the main guns on that star destroyer, give you a hint. it's 4 on the side. The only exception of the top of my head is the merciless.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070321230823/starwars/images/8/86/Merciless_Aggressor.jpg
it fires big bolts like this.
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060803020242/starwars/images/8/89/Krayt_destroyer_shot.jpg
I mean like someone joked about above, EVE isn't anime.
I'll post some eve pics below for comparison.
http://astroyka.net/hG5P48oSga/uploads/2012/09/talos.jpg Talos
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65853/1/arty_Rifter.jpg Rifter
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dh0LCKVuScs/S_E0NSmdrcI/AAAAAAAAAPc/uNK61ZvTzbM/s1600/Rifter_vs_747.png Size comparison of a rifter.
https://evepics.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/alikchimoros.jpg Moros being firing and being fired upon.
CCP - Outpost code is scary.
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