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Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
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Posted - 2015.01.12 19:11:10 -
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eug3nio Anninen wrote:Some stuff explaining how the OP doesn't understand the core ideas of the game.
This is you.
You are in a capsule. This capsule is designed to directly interface with the ship and increase ship performance through said action. As a secondary function, it is a lifeboat and your last resort method of reincarnation.
If you lose control of your ship, you're dead. If your lifeboat can't go anywhere, you're dead. If you cannot zombie your butt off to a random station hundreds of light years away, you're super dead.
So, would you want to put your capsule close to the surface of the hull? No, putting your most vulnerable part on display is bad.
Would you want to put a window on this capsule so you can see out of it? No, there are only bulkheads out there. (Plus being aware of floating in goop ground up from the bodies of other human beings with tons of cables sticking into you doesn't sound pleasant and probably very distracting)
So, would you want windows for your little janitor buddies on your ship? Not really, those are structural weak points if they're made from a material less hardy than the hull. If those blinky lights are windows, I'd chalk it up to the legacy of the ship being originally designed for a full crew.
So, in essence, crews are not considered important to players(capsuleers) in EVE because they are not important to player(capsuleer) performance. The crew that exist in lore are glorified janitors. Officers would only slow you down.
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Kaerakh
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Posted - 2015.01.12 20:39:49 -
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baltec1 wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:
If you have more ideas about what would make the world of the game seem more lived-in, please keep posting.
A go faster stripe for a Phoenix skin, I have my reasons.
Already done.
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Kaerakh
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:45:13 -
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Jon Dekker wrote:Yep, walking around and chatting with NPC crew would be pretty cool I think. I think CCP can construct some lore about being wirelessly connected to the ship just like they did with the Dust & Valkyrie tech. The important bit^
So let me get this straight, you want to talk to this guy?
Why?
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Kaerakh
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Posted - 2015.01.13 08:03:04 -
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CCP Darwin wrote:Tusker Crazinski wrote:for the same reason you don't put windows on a submarine. You don't put windows on a submarine because the pressures the submarine has to withstand are far greater than what a spacecraft has to sustain. Also, because deep under the ocean there's no light. Meanwhile, on real spacecraft (such as the ISS) windows are a major feature and extremely popular among crews. Of course a crewed ship is going to have windows.
That's because morale outweighs the need for structural strength. Your comparison falls flat because the goals of either example are simply different.
EVE ships have to withstand the rigors of combat and environmental hazards. The ISS sits in orbit with little to no debris, and certainly no combative scenarios.
So again, your comparison is flawed from the outset. I expect more from a developer at CCP.
Edit: Also, the submarine comparison was fine.
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Posted - 2015.01.13 20:32:48 -
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Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Kaerakh wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:
You don't put windows on a submarine because the pressures the submarine has to withstand are far greater than what a spacecraft has to sustain. Also, because deep under the ocean there's no light.
Meanwhile, on real spacecraft (such as the ISS) windows are a major feature and extremely popular among crews.
Of course a crewed ship is going to have windows.
That's because morale outweighs the need for structural strength. Your comparison falls flat because the goals of either example are simply different. EVE ships have to withstand the rigors of combat and environmental hazards. The ISS sits in orbit with little to no debris, and certainly no combative scenarios. So again, your comparison is flawed from the outset. I expect more from a developer at CCP. Edit: Also, the submarine comparison was fine. The ISS is constantly being moved to avoid debris and NASA do a huge amount of work to track the detritus we've fired into orbit. The ships in Eve can hurl themselves through warp and can withstand hits from VW sized artillery shells, I think they would have the technology to make a few windows that can take space debris.
Yeah, it's being moved not simply flying through it. Thanks for making my point for me.
If someone would show me a lore page explaining EVE's equivalent to transparisteel or transparent aluminum and how trivial the cost was, I wouldn't be having this discussion.
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: On a similar not the 0.5 metre window really won't make much difference to structural integrity when a ton of antimatter/plasma/hypervelocity missile slams into your ship. Another point would be that the armour plan on the ship would almost certainly be *inside* the hull covering all of the important parts of the ship. Crew quarters would be placed around this as a flimsy outer hull and would add very little to the integrity of the inner hull (think 'All or Nothing armour plan for RL battleships).
Ugh, Seriously? I really have to explain how kinetic, and thermal forces spread when they come into contact with something? Seriously? At this point however if you're just sacrificing the crew up the moment combat starts I have to ask the question again.
Why do you want to so badly see what this guy does?
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Windows would give the crew a feeling of comfort and when jumping into combat the crew would be inside the armoured areas manning the various important bits of the ship and hoping their favourite teddy bear doesn't get vaporized outside of the more safe areas.
So, the only reason I'm hearing is morale. Since when did the average capsuleer care so much for Caldari Citizen 217893405039534969? You can achieve the same effect with EVE's camera drones and display screens.
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Kaerakh
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Posted - 2015.01.13 21:24:53 -
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Murkar Omaristos wrote:People want windows dude. Get over it lol
Also, fighter bombers already have transparent windows and pilots.
I'm glad you speak for the entirety of the the player base and understand that fighters and fighter bombers(you forgot one) have different design objectives and concerns.
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Kaerakh
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Posted - 2015.01.14 00:49:45 -
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Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: ISS and debris: My point is that there is far from little debris in orbitaround our planet, there's tons of the stuff and satellites are constantly maneuvred to avoid it if in low earth orbit.
Yes, but your analogy fails because EVE ships collide with that debris and modern space travel avoids it as best as they can.
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Kintic and Thermal forces: Do I really have to explain that you're talking about hypothetical spaceships thousands of years in the future created from substances we can't even imagine? I think a few windows would be childs play.
Yes, but what you're failing to realize is that what actually being discussed is how much suspension of disbelief is being demanded of the audience. Currently EVE actually calls for much less than a lot of other IPs simply due to how effectively CCP explains the universe it takes place in. I'm merely saying there isn't a reason why you would put a window there on a ship dedicated for combat.
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Sacrificing crew? I said that crew quarters are sacrificial as they are easily replaced. the crew would be *inside* the armoured hull operating all the vital combat equipment when at battle stations, not swinging in their space hammock hoping they don't get atomized!. And when it's Caldari Citizen 217893405039534969 keeping your ammo loading or shields running you care a great deal, we just don't see it as the game is a simplified view of what is really happening throughout the ship.
I have seen no lore or gameplay elements suggesting that a capsuleer vessel's vital functions are tied to the crew. I've seen suggestions of maintenance, but even in the novels the capsuleer characters make very little if any reference to crews much less their effect on performance. So saying should care a great deal about them is unfounded.
The fact is the more human components between the capsule and the ship, the higher the chance for something to go wrong. This defeats the entire purpose of the capsule. The capsule is designed to replace the need for officers and the command structure. This reduces the latency between a command and the implementation to merely thinking about it. I would be fairly confident to say that ammunition is handled by an automated process considering the size of the ammunition on larger weapon systems. Saying Joe Bob lifts my ammo into a gun WWII style is completely ridiculous.
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Kaerakh
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Posted - 2015.01.14 11:52:36 -
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ISD Ezwal wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:Tusker Crazinski wrote:for the same reason you don't put windows on a submarine. You don't put windows on a submarine because the pressures the submarine has to withstand are far greater than what a spacecraft has to sustain. Also, because deep under the ocean there's no light. Maybe not technically a submarine, but a Bathyscaphe does have at least one window. Diving depth: +/- 11 km. The same goes for the more recent Deepsea Challenger.
While interesting, the designed purpose of such vessels does not include the rigors of combat. If I recall correctly, military submarines rely exceedingly so on topographical undersea maps and planned navigational movement to understand their surroundings. This would be due to the fact that you can't really pop out and look where you're going due to the lack of light at those depths and the lack of external aides for navigation. I also feel criminally negligent in having not mentioned that military submarines are also designed with materials and shape to reduce the effectiveness of enemy sonar systems, but that's not entirely relevant.
Basically, the expressly designed purpose of those vessels and the purpose of the windows are quite different from most of the EVE ship line up. (Considering there are ships other than combat craft in EVE)
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Kaerakh
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Posted - 2015.01.14 20:58:35 -
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Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Kaerakh wrote:...
The fact is the more human components between the capsule and the ship, the higher the chance for something to go wrong. This defeats the entire purpose of the capsule. The capsule is designed to replace the need for officers and the command structure. This reduces the latency between a command and the implementation to merely thinking about it. I would be fairly confident to say that ammunition is handled by an automated process considering the size of the ammunition on larger weapon systems. Saying Joe Bob lifts my ammo into a gun WWII style is completely ridiculous. Crew are minimized but still required. Whilst bob doesn't lift the ammo to the gun he does maintain the ammo loading systems to maximum efficiency. If it slowed down or stopped in a firefight you'd really want to know what bob was doing about it. In terms of suspending disbelief as an argument that can just as easily be applied to ships having ultra tough windows that are as strong as (or integrated into) the surrounding armour system. I still maintain that the core of the vessel is the armoured section anyway. Those areas not vital to combat are placed on the outside of the vital areas to minimize the amount of armour required to cover the important bits. the crew can live inside their battle stations if the outer hull gets wrecked but will struggle a tad if the armour hull is comprimized. the windows on the outside would therefore have absolutely no impact on the structural integrity of the ship. In fact the thin outer hull could conceivably help defeat enemy shots incoming by decapping/triggering their fuzes (or the equivalent dependant on ammo being used) before they impact the inner armour hull. As an aside: Who'd have thought that a discussion about windows on ships would have gained so much attention from CCP/ISD members :D I rest my case that windows are obviously important on Eve ships.
Sigh, I doubt you'll even try to read this, but until you do it's not worth my time.
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Kaerakh
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Posted - 2015.01.15 14:08:00 -
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Debora Tsung wrote:eug3nio Anninen wrote:Tusker Crazinski wrote:Alright I actually feel like being constructive to the thread, instead of knocking over sci-fi missteps and criticizing our space program.
One- Stations; a little detail that would make them seemed more lived in. would be small tugs moving ships, freight containers and things of the such. some stations do this to a small extent. Instead of being enveloped in a docking dome.
the sound (lol) of welders, grinders, building ships maintaining the station or fixing burnt hulls.
Two- sound effects of thing breaking in your ship as you take hull damage
o my god ...finally one who's getting it! You should have used this thread then... Lifeless WorldEDIT: Or this thread: Rethinking asteroid belts as actual belts, in lieu with today's emphasis on scanning
I think those are a little ambitious, but I wil agree that dynamic landscaping is a very worth while feature. Currently, the world has no reaction to capsuleer presence. I agree that that's a problem.
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