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Scotlad
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Posted - 2006.09.15 12:59:00 -
[1]
I have been playing Eve for a while now and have never ventured out into 0.0 that much, although I am keen to do so. The only concern I have is the logistics of being out there and staying out there. Usually getting into 0.0 isnt too difficult once you manage to avoid the odd gate camp or two. Once you are out there you feel free to go explore whatever you like, seeing things you have never seen before like the low end ores and battleship NPC rats in belts etc.... I do however have one beef with 0.0 that I would like to try and do something about.
The beef is with these large corps and alliances that claim such vast areas of 0.0 that are mostly unpopulated. I cant understand why they havent embraced Eve and allowed anyone to fly into their space and live freely. I accept the fact that every alliance and corp in 0.0 at the moment wants to own space and be free in their own space and the only true way of doing that is to podkill everyone that comes into their space, but why do they control so much ? I cant even begin to imagine the resources they use to control this space. I expect that 0.0 space changes hands quite a lot and large battles take place resulting in a lot of losses.
What I would love to see though is some kind of 0.0 space that can be free to some degree, maybe an allaince that controls the area of space can police its borders like Concord do in safe space. I mean you dont see Concord podding everyone that enters the systems do you. I dont know whether there is an alliance that is currently doing this or not hence why I am posting this really to find out if there is this possibility at the moment.
I would love to hear from pilots from these large alliances that control these vast amount of areas in 0.0, maybe there could be some deal arranged, like having a few small corps help police your borders to stop gate campers. I am not sure what opportunites there are out there at the moment but I am interested in finding out what could be done to try and create a thriving economy in 0.0 and help improve this much loved game.
Regards
Scotlad |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:02:00 -
[2]
These sort of deals already exist.
Oh, and there are a number of areas (such as CVA space) that are open.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Scotlad
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:07:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dark Shikari These sort of deals already exist.
Oh, and there are a number of areas (such as CVA space) that are open.
So I could easily fly down to CVA space and wander in without the worry of being killed as soon as I enter ? |
Gindar
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom R i s e
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:08:00 -
[4]
the main thing about 0.0, is there's a couple main systems everyone hangs out in. the rest is still kinda frontier land that people will rarely pass through or hunt in. if you want to do commerce in 0.0 then obviously you'll want to get standings set to +5 and get station access in their hub systems. to do that you'll have to talk with someone in the alliance that can set standings. the system is not guarunteed safe and neither is travel there. its like lowsec but even a noob ship can shoot at you since theres no sentry guns. also if the alliance is at war you will sooner or later encounter a group of hostiles. preferably this will happen while you are in a shuttle. not a hauler full of zydrine.
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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:08:00 -
[5]
We already have these
There are tracts of 0.0 which are claimed by NPC factions and contain stations belonging to that faction, Most of these regions have everything you need on the market, however they are inately more dangerous than alliance space.
As for fully conquerable space....well they allaince which can get its ass organised to the point where it can build its own chain of outposts can claim whatever they can defend.
I lived in 0.0 alone for months before joining a deepspace alliance. Your biggest worry is getting the good loot out and getting the ammo in. Prepare to lose your bs at least once a month however but I was making so much money it didnt hurt a bit....other than the pain in the ass of getting back out there again.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:09:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/09/2006 13:14:32
Originally by: Scotlad
Originally by: Dark Shikari These sort of deals already exist.
Oh, and there are a number of areas (such as CVA space) that are open.
So I could easily fly down to CVA space and wander in without the worry of being killed as soon as I enter ?
If I recall correctly, they are open in that manner (as Big Blue was and ISS space is).
However, note that NPC-corpers will be killed by anyone, so you will have to be a member of a corporation.
And remember that if space is open to everyone, its open to people who can kill you too... which is why alliances exist.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Tommy Vercetti
The Nexus Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Scotlad
So I could easily fly down to CVA space and wander in without the worry of being killed as soon as I enter ?
Lol that depends on who is doing the killing. Remember, if its open to you, its open to anyone else. Just locate some stretched out alliance regions (hint: one place thats not too bad is an area of land that is wild and great), have some bm's handy, check the map for blobs and have a wonder.
--------------------------------------------------- Tommy Vercetti A&E Director The Nexus Syndicate --------------------------------------------------- |
Scotlad
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:19:00 -
[8]
Is there any space from safe space to 0.0 space that isnt gate camped or there are corps that regularly kill gate campers ? |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Scotlad Is there any space from safe space to 0.0 space that isnt gate camped or there are corps that regularly kill gate campers ?
No.
Because there are pretty much two options in 0.0:
1. Alliances that defend the space and kill the gatecampers.
2. Relatively lawless space that is camped by everyone.
0.0 isn't a free lunch.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Scotlad Is there any space from safe space to 0.0 space that isnt gate camped or there are corps that regularly kill gate campers ?
If there is any - it will be flooded by people looking to make quick isk. And wherever people try to make quick isk, pirates will follow. So you cannot have your cake and eat it. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
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Scotlad
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Scotlad Is there any space from safe space to 0.0 space that isnt gate camped or there are corps that regularly kill gate campers ?
No.
Because there are pretty much two options in 0.0:
1. Alliances that defend the space and kill the gatecampers.
2. Relatively lawless space that is camped by everyone.
0.0 isn't a free lunch.
I dont expect 0.0 to be a free lunch, there is obviously some risk involved by being in 0.0 as it is lawless, but if ther risk is lowered then more people will enter it. This of course would help reduce lag on the servers and get more people into the less populated systems. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Scotlad
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Scotlad Is there any space from safe space to 0.0 space that isnt gate camped or there are corps that regularly kill gate campers ?
No.
Because there are pretty much two options in 0.0:
1. Alliances that defend the space and kill the gatecampers.
2. Relatively lawless space that is camped by everyone.
0.0 isn't a free lunch.
I dont expect 0.0 to be a free lunch, there is obviously some risk involved by being in 0.0 as it is lawless, but if ther risk is lowered then more people will enter it. This of course would help reduce lag on the servers and get more people into the less populated systems.
My point is that people don't defend a region and keep it clean of pirates for nothing.
In fact, if they allow everyone in EVE in, not only will they allow pirates in, but PvP corporations from around EVE will flock to the area to kill the swarm of targets.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Valkazm
Amarr Cursed Spawn
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:33:00 -
[13]
Your missing the point how are you going to stop someone from shooting you as soon as someone leaves a gate camp someone else puts there flag on the gate and says its ours .. only option to have this utopia is if you were the uberness reincarnated to go pwn fleets and fleets that come in your way to secure your own safety .. 0.0 is controlled by players that is why you dont get a free lunch players that dont know you and could care less about your dream of minning some precious ore .. unless you convince all the players in the region not to shoot you your out of luck ..
Cursed Spawn recruitment |
Scotlad
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Valkazm Your missing the point how are you going to stop someone from shooting you as soon as someone leaves a gate camp someone else puts there flag on the gate and says its ours .. only option to have this utopia is if you were the uberness reincarnated to go pwn fleets and fleets that come in your way to secure your own safety .. 0.0 is controlled by players that is why you dont get a free lunch players that dont know you and could care less about your dream of minning some precious ore .. unless you convince all the players in the region not to shoot you your out of luck ..
I think what I am trying to get at is it would be good to have a chokepoint into 0.0 being broke up, so kind of create a gate camp but let everyone through perhaps ? This way more people could get into 0.0 and try and establish themselves in the less populated systems. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Scotlad
Originally by: Valkazm Your missing the point how are you going to stop someone from shooting you as soon as someone leaves a gate camp someone else puts there flag on the gate and says its ours .. only option to have this utopia is if you were the uberness reincarnated to go pwn fleets and fleets that come in your way to secure your own safety .. 0.0 is controlled by players that is why you dont get a free lunch players that dont know you and could care less about your dream of minning some precious ore .. unless you convince all the players in the region not to shoot you your out of luck ..
I think what I am trying to get at is it would be good to have a chokepoint into 0.0 being broke up, so kind of create a gate camp but let everyone through perhaps ? This way more people could get into 0.0 and try and establish themselves in the less populated systems.
1. Everyone gets let through.
2. 20% of those you let through come back to kill you.
3. Another 500 people come through to kill the other 80% (and you too).
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Mjala
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:44:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Mjala on 15/09/2006 13:46:40
Originally by: Scotlad
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Scotlad Is there any space from safe space to 0.0 space that isnt gate camped or there are corps that regularly kill gate campers ?
No.
Because there are pretty much two options in 0.0:
1. Alliances that defend the space and kill the gatecampers.
2. Relatively lawless space that is camped by everyone.
0.0 isn't a free lunch.
I dont expect 0.0 to be a free lunch, there is obviously some risk involved by being in 0.0 as it is lawless, but if ther risk is lowered then more people will enter it. This of course would help reduce lag on the servers and get more people into the less populated systems.
when ccp would make 0.0 more safer, it would destroy the pvp in this game. thats something what make me scared.
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Pham Sirge
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:49:00 -
[17]
Hi all,
Getting out into 0.0 is really more a matter of scouting, bookmarks and planning.
Most alliances are weak in some time period and all you need to do is wait.
Make an newbie alt then fly him in to the system you suspect of being camped if it clear cool, otherwise wait.
Basically solo, your only option is ratting, mining really requires a pos to work solo, as to make any money you will need to shift a huge pile of ore (My normal mining load is around 800,000 m3) before being refined.
In terms of ratting its all about security status, 0.0 system have a hidden sec status 0.0 to -1.0(you can use a site like: http://www.fluidorbit.co.uk/ to look it up).
I would stay away from -0.7 to -1.0 as they tend to attract players also try to pick a dead end system as it is rare'er for people to find you (I was able to rat in a system for about 2 months before someone found me).
Get some Giant secure cans(around 4 is good or if you have an alt account fly in a indy and leave him logged in the safespot) and lodge them in a safespot with one containing your ammo (if you use it) and rat, when anyone enters the system jump to your safe spot and log.
Take a break(or attack them if your game) and log back on in an hour or so rinse and repeat.
Getting your stuff out is then your issue, once again scouting is your answer.
Once you are setup in a good system you have better than average chances of staying alive.
, Pham Sirge
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Zantazar
Caldari The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:51:00 -
[18]
"The beef is with these large corps and alliances that claim such vast areas of 0.0 that are mostly unpopulated. I can't understand why they haven't embraced Eve and allowed anyone to fly into their space and live freely"
Interesting, but you are talking about a game that could be developed, based on Eve... but never Eve itself. The cold hard fact is that 0.0 is a permanent war zone. My corporation / alliance are always at war. Anyone that transcends our borders without prior consultation is automatically attacked by us, and podded.
"but why do they control so much ?"
Relate it to real life. Imagine a country (a number of people that group together in an area and call it there own, create a border, and defend it to the death) saying to an outside group "Yes, come in to our country and mine our resources, feel free to do so". I think not.
"I can't even begin to imagine the resources they use to control this space"
Yes, we indeed use a lot of resources, but the amount of isk that you can make in an organised controlled area of 0.0 within a structured corporation, within an alliance of a sound infrastructure, is massive.
"I expect that 0.0 space changes hands quite a lot and large battles take place resulting in a lot of losses."
Yes, sometimes many losses, but overall a successful corporation will make a profit, and also gain respect from their strength and reaction to any aggressor. We do not lose space, and we intend to gain even more space.
"some deal arranged, like having a few small corps help police your borders to stop gate campers"
The corporations within our alliance police our borders 24/7, and the only gate camping possible would be a full out fleet battle, usually ending up with losses on wither side, with the defending alliance holding their area, and the aggressors "limping" back to their hole.
"create a thriving economy in 0.0"
The economy is already thriving
"help improve this much loved game"
The game does not need improved, well not in the respect that you mean.
"I am not sure what opportunities there are out there at the moment"
Opportunities? Here is one, join our corp. Earn 1 billion per week. Here is another, join our alliance with your corp. Earn 1 billion per week. Here is another, join an enemy alliance of ours. Earn?????? per week. And finally, one more. Go it alone, invade, fight, destroy, mine, earn, defend, mine, earn, defend, and if you are very successful ... contact me .... I am always willing to listen to an offer.
I would sell my soul, my body, and my entire family for a Navy Raven. (Just kidding .... my soul is not for sale)
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Zantazar
Caldari The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:51:00 -
[19]
"The beef is with these large corps and alliances that claim such vast areas of 0.0 that are mostly unpopulated. I can't understand why they haven't embraced Eve and allowed anyone to fly into their space and live freely"
Interesting, but you are talking about a game that could be developed, based on Eve... but never Eve itself. The cold hard fact is that 0.0 is a permanent war zone. My corporation / alliance are always at war. Anyone that transcends our borders without prior consultation is automatically attacked by us, and podded.
"but why do they control so much ?"
Relate it to real life. Imagine a country (a number of people that group together in an area and call it there own, create a border, and defend it to the death) saying to an outside group "Yes, come in to our country and mine our resources, feel free to do so". I think not.
"I can't even begin to imagine the resources they use to control this space"
Yes, we indeed use a lot of resources, but the amount of isk that you can make in an organised controlled area of 0.0 within a structured corporation, within an alliance of a sound infrastructure, is massive.
"I expect that 0.0 space changes hands quite a lot and large battles take place resulting in a lot of losses."
Yes, sometimes many losses, but overall a successful corporation will make a profit, and also gain respect from their strength and reaction to any aggressor. We do not lose space, and we intend to gain even more space.
"some deal arranged, like having a few small corps help police your borders to stop gate campers"
The corporations within our alliance police our borders 24/7, and the only gate camping possible would be a full out fleet battle, usually ending up with losses on wither side, with the defending alliance holding their area, and the aggressors "limping" back to their hole.
"create a thriving economy in 0.0"
The economy is already thriving
"help improve this much loved game"
The game does not need improved, well not in the respect that you mean.
"I am not sure what opportunities there are out there at the moment"
Opportunities? Here is one, join our corp. Earn 1 billion per week. Here is another, join our alliance with your corp. Earn 1 billion per week. Here is another, join an enemy alliance of ours. Earn?????? per week. And finally, one more. Go it alone, invade, fight, destroy, mine, earn, defend, mine, earn, defend, and if you are very successful ... contact me .... I am always willing to listen to an offer.
I would sell my soul, my body, and my entire family for a Navy Raven. (Just kidding .... my soul is not for sale)
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Zantazar
Caldari The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.15 13:52:00 -
[20]
"The beef is with these large corps and alliances that claim such vast areas of 0.0 that are mostly unpopulated. I can't understand why they haven't embraced Eve and allowed anyone to fly into their space and live freely"
Interesting, but you are talking about a game that could be developed, based on Eve... but never Eve itself. The cold hard fact is that 0.0 is a permanent war zone. My corporation / alliance are always at war. Anyone that transcends our borders without prior consultation is automatically attacked by us, and podded.
"but why do they control so much ?"
Relate it to real life. Imagine a country (a number of people that group together in an area and call it there own, create a border, and defend it to the death) saying to an outside group "Yes, come in to our country and mine our resources, feel free to do so". I think not.
"I can't even begin to imagine the resources they use to control this space"
Yes, we indeed use a lot of resources, but the amount of isk that you can make in an organised controlled area of 0.0 within a structured corporation, within an alliance of a sound infrastructure, is massive.
"I expect that 0.0 space changes hands quite a lot and large battles take place resulting in a lot of losses."
Yes, sometimes many losses, but overall a successful corporation will make a profit, and also gain respect from their strength and reaction to any aggressor. We do not lose space, and we intend to gain even more space.
"some deal arranged, like having a few small corps help police your borders to stop gate campers"
The corporations within our alliance police our borders 24/7, and the only gate camping possible would be a full out fleet battle, usually ending up with losses on wither side, with the defending alliance holding their area, and the aggressors "limping" back to their hole.
"create a thriving economy in 0.0"
The economy is already thriving
"help improve this much loved game"
The game does not need improved, well not in the respect that you mean.
"I am not sure what opportunities there are out there at the moment"
Opportunities? Here is one, join our corp. Earn 1 billion per week. Here is another, join our alliance with your corp. Earn 1 billion per week. Here is another, join an enemy alliance of ours. Earn?????? per week. And finally, one more. Go it alone, invade, fight, destroy, mine, earn, defend, mine, earn, defend, and if you are very successful ... contact me .... I am always willing to listen to an offer.
I would sell my soul, my body, and my entire family for a Navy Raven. (Just kidding .... my soul is not for sale)
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Zantazar
Caldari The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.15 14:13:00 -
[21]
Apologies for the TRIPLE post, my pc crashed and wierd stuff happened, had to log in twice.
Again, apologies.
I would sell my soul, my body, and my entire family for a Navy Raven. (Just kidding .... my soul is not for sale)
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Scotlad
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Posted - 2006.09.15 14:16:00 -
[22]
This is all great information from you guys, very much appreciated and certainly a lot of very interesting comments. I think probably what I am looking for is a 0.0 corp to join. My corporation doesnt have enough members to join an alliance. The problem with joining a large corp though is one of the things I tried to avoid in the past as I already have a job in RL and Eve is a way for me to relax and have some fun without the corp attitude of you have to do this for this long. Are there any corps out there that are relatively easy about what you do in them ? |
Zantazar
Caldari The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.15 14:34:00 -
[23]
Scotlad ... let's talk ... I can give you the "run down" of my corporation and alliance. Contact me in game on Zantazar, I am on tonight and most of this weekend, or go to my website and send me contact info to which I will reply. My domain is zantazar.com. I do not wish to spam corp stuff here. But it could be to your advantage, and ourselves I hope, as you sound like a potential benefit to us.
I would sell my soul, my body, and my entire family for a Navy Raven. (Just kidding .... my soul is not for sale)
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DanMck
Amarr Rionnag Alba Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.15 14:49:00 -
[24]
join a scottish corp (like ours)
in an alliance already 0.0 based
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2006.09.15 14:54:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Splagada on 15/09/2006 14:54:15 there are plenty of places you can get, half of 0.0 is empty, the hardest is to pass the entry points
0.4 is twice harder than 0.0 imo
Tides of Silence recruiting mature players |
Andicuri Vas
Gallente Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.15 14:57:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Andicuri Vas on 15/09/2006 14:57:38 Edited by: Andicuri Vas on 15/09/2006 14:57:13 "Free Space" has been done before with little success. CFS and IRON come to mind. The problem is that when free space is established, there is a gigantic wave of pilots that populate the region(s) for mining and hunting. All is wonderful until the ebil pirates come to visit and there is a call to arms... <Insert cricket sounds> and all of those pilots that have enjoyed all of the benefits of 0.0 ( With none of the sacrifice) are nowhere to be found.
So, you are correct in saying that there is no free lunch in 0.0. The problem is that the vast majority of EvE pilots think that there is.
A V Your e-peen is too large, please read the forum rules before reposting - Tirg |
Scotlad
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Posted - 2006.09.15 15:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Andicuri Vas Edited by: Andicuri Vas on 15/09/2006 14:57:38 Edited by: Andicuri Vas on 15/09/2006 14:57:13 "Free Space" has been done before with little success. CFS and IRON come to mind. The problem is that when free space is established, there is a gigantic wave of pilots that populate the region(s) for mining and hunting. All is wonderful until the ebil pirates come to visit and there is a call to arms... <Insert cricket sounds> and all of those pilots that have enjoyed all of the benefits of 0.0 ( With none of the sacrifice) are nowhere to be found.
So, you are correct in saying that there is no free lunch in 0.0. The problem is that the vast majority of EvE pilots think that there is.
A V
This is a very good point and one that I expect is what kills the idea of a free space in 0.0. |
coldplasma
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Posted - 2006.09.15 17:07:00 -
[28]
In most parts of 0.0 space, neutrals are kill on sight. There is a very good reason for this. For all you know, that neut could be a snake spying for your enemy. ____________________________
See you in 0.0 kids... |
Master Spoonman
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Posted - 2006.09.15 17:51:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Scotlad
Originally by: Dark Shikari These sort of deals already exist.
Oh, and there are a number of areas (such as CVA space) that are open.
So I could easily fly down to CVA space and wander in without the worry of being killed as soon as I enter ?
You could fly down to CVA space if you were so inclined. As long as you didn't try to start trouble with the locals you'll be left alone by the corps there. However pirates do tend to take advantage of this at the chokepoints, but you could just ask members of CVA or their allies if the route is clear. If you do start to do this please give way to the locals. If someone is already ratting in a belt don't try to steal kills or loot.
***
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Roxors
Caldari Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.15 18:04:00 -
[30]
i've lost three ships in my eve life.. all three were in empire.. i've yet to die in 0.0 (and i live pretty deep out in 0.0)
that said.. i would really like to see regional sov go away.. i would like to see something a little more like the rts/city builder games do where you have your primary home base structure that emits a control radius inside of which you could build other structures..
the idea would be that you would put your home base down to claim sov and then you would be able to place other structures in that and the adjacent systems (building fortifications in the other systems would then give you sov over them).. this way you end up with huge tracts of un-owned space and small bastions of player alliance gaurded space. would give the smaller alliances an oppertunity to claw out thier own niche in 0.0
you would still have people effectivly controlling large sections of unclaimed space via chokepoint gatecamps but if you make the home bases structures REALLY self defendable then you can provide some sort of growth point and more people would likely move to 0.0
----------- Website
Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
Originally by: jellybelly2 My alt has seen 9 titans.
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