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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
209
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:17:08 -
[151] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Tear Jar wrote:Stacy Lone wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners Have you considered the implications this will have for wspace? I mean it might work for 0.0 where you can see that *something* is there through local, but in wspace, this will be absolutely OP and hilarious. No local, not even DScan anymore, how are you supposed to even get any intel? The only way to detect such a ship is by having either eyes on all wholes (requires multitude of characters) and thus seeing it enter or by constant combat probing, which can be seen by the enemy. I fear that this will make this ship far out of line in wspace, where intel is already harder to get than in 0.0. How is that any different than cov ops ships? Some exceptions aside covert ops ships tend to have a short delay after decloaking before they can target - a combat recon won't have that delay.
That is a good point. Making the d-scan immunity an active affect with a short targeting delay when deactivated may be a better choice. Especially with all the other buffs recons are getting.
Edit: Actually, the warpin time works as a perfect substitute for this. You will get at least 3-4 seconds while the Recon is in warp. |
Levina Windstar
Mekalon Industry
47
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:17:10 -
[152] - Quote
Lorac Gemini wrote:Levina Windstar wrote:Lorac Gemini wrote:Levina Windstar wrote:I like the undetectable feature but I think this will be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too OP in WH.
CCP plz... think about WH too! :/ As a wormholer, I think this is amazing. But I guess WH carebears would hate this. I think it's an amazing idea too, but you have to understand that most corp in WH are small corp and it's another kick in the ass for them (for us). We are not carebear at all but if this **** happens, we will seriously think of leaving WH for good. I mean cmon... can't you see this is way too OP in WH space? I get it in K-Space but balance must be made in W-Space You realise cloaks are a thing right? Recons off Dscan is too scary, but cloaky T3's, bombers, force recons, etc... If anything, this just makes W-space more varied. See, I'm honestly surprised to see WH tears here, because we should be used to non-information.
Yeah but I had a chance to get them on D-Scan for 8-10 sec meaby. And yeah, cloaky T3 is a thing but a cloaky T3 lack DPS + they have targeting delay so at least there is a drawback here and again, I had the chance to get them on D-Scan.
Think about a 10 man fleet that jump through a WH and land on you (cause THEY can use D-Scan to spot you). It's totally not fair for the defenders.
If CCP want to make WH an alts fest scoutin every WH, fine. I'll just find something else to do in New Eden than being a wormholers. |
Reagalan
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
13
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:17:26 -
[153] - Quote
Gorgof Intake wrote: I for one applaud the fact that Intel tools are taking a subsequent nerf. One of the biggest factors that has degraded the content in Null Sec warfare in particular has been the advent and growth of these sorts of instant, perfect intelligence tools.
I'd say Remote Reps, Bombers, and Supercapitals are a bigger problem.
Anything that adds uncertainty or requires player skill instead of a 'click here to win' approach to fleet combat is a good step in the right direction.
One of the biggest parts of the skill of being an FC is choosing your engagements wisely. Knowing how many recons a fleet has is an extremely important component of this, especially if you're using a sig tanking doctrine. If such a piece of information is unobtainable, or indeed if any of these pieces of information are unobtainable, then it devalues this skill immensely.
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Sobic
Appetite 4 Destruction
29
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:17:35 -
[154] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Stacy Lone wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners Have you considered the implications this will have for wspace? I mean it might work for 0.0 where you can see that *something* is there through local, but in wspace, this will be absolutely OP and hilarious. No local, not even DScan anymore, how are you supposed to even get any intel? The only way to detect such a ship is by having either eyes on all wholes (requires multitude of characters) and thus seeing it enter or by constant combat probing, which can be seen by the enemy. I fear that this will make this ship far out of line in wspace, where intel is already harder to get than in 0.0. How is that any different than cov ops ships?
A covert ops has to re-cloak when jumping into a system. has to Re-cloak when entering a plex, or docking at a station,etc. That's a lot of chances to make a hit on D-scan. Or the covert to make a mistake(Like Dbl tapping his cloak) It also causes a 6 sec delay to target when decloaking.(yes I know a combat recon warping in is effectively the same thing) Now you have a perma off grid cloak with increased combat capability across the board.
Obviously you can drop combat probes to subvert this entire thing to some degree. But adding yet another chore for yet another alt just so you can have a chance to survive is poor eve design. We've been down this stupid street before CCP. (Cloaked ships decloaking cloaked ships anyone)
instead how bout improving D-scan. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=392816&find=unread |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
48
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:18:53 -
[155] - Quote
Querns wrote:The number of people in this thread that think that the Falcon, Rapier, Arazu, and Pilgrim are becoming immune to directional scan is depressingly high.
+1 |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
911
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 16:18:56 -
[156] - Quote
the no d-scanning bit is stupid, and this hybrid tracking bonuses on roden thing is stupid as well.
how about instead, you remove the covops cloaks from force recons, and make them immune to d-scanner instead.
why is the curse not getting a 5th lowslot? why is the lachesis not getting a 4th (and 5th) lowslot? these are supposed to be armour tanked ships, but they're really bad at it because they have no slots and no fitting. |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
239
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:19:27 -
[157] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote: Where has this been stated as a design rule by CCP? Ships have the amount of slots that CCP feels worth it for balance.
It's been given as the reason for gallente drone ships having less slots, but apparently it does not concern Amarr, the new drone master race.
The D-scan change is nuts and breaks core mechanics of the game. |
Sokor Loro
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
73
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:20:06 -
[158] - Quote
Ponder Stuff wrote:Still waiting for a good patch since Incarna with just positive changes. You have broken links and now caps, lets not break Dscan too....
Is this guy for real lmao |
FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:20:08 -
[159] - Quote
I realize it looks cool on paper, but have you really considered the impact on risk/reward that will result from the D-Scan immunity? Before this change a player who was at the keyboard and paying attention could reliably escape an incoming red in local or see incoming hostiles in a wormhole; the stupid, lazy, or unlucky got caught. After this change a player will either have to dock up the instant a red his local or risk having a recon just appear at zero.
Right now if a player wants a "sneaky point" they can use a bomber since it does not suffer from reactivation delay on decloak, but that is balanced by the fact that their bomber is paper thin, is going to need backup to kill more than a covops, and has a slow and difficult approach while cloaked if the target is outside basic point range. Alternately they can rely on an interceptor and hope the speed of their arrival lets them catch the unwary. Either way there are tradeoffs.
With the changes a double sensor booster Lachesis will become better tackle than an interceptor and be effectively as sneaky as a bomber. In real terms, despite the greater speed of the interceptor or the ability to get really close (slowly) while cloaked in a bomber the decreased warning and increased point range of the Lachesis will give will make it far more likely to land a point. Of course it will also be far more expensive, but besides the above it will be able to rip ships up to and including some HACs in half by using a long-scram, damps, and dictating range (and I still haven't accounted for a mid-slot). In other words, if you leave it as is, I'm buying a dozen and blinging the bejezus out of them; blood for the blood god! Still probably not a good game design choice though.
The Rook and Curse will be almost as brutal since they have universally effective E-War that will rapidly shut down the ability of nearly all targets to fight back, they will just have to get in a bit closer to hold the target down.
As much as I hate to agree with people who seem to be whining about their PvE getting ruined I think that making a highly combat capable ship class not show up on D-scan is not a good idea. It will break the risk/reward ratio that currently stands in nullsec by making the red in local a far far greater threat. As things stand now the dispersed ratters of null and low populations of wormholes cannot usually concentrate the numbers needed to fight off a ship like this so all it will do is serve to make space more deserted as everyone becomes that much more dock-happy.
Now, making themonly show up at close range could work; less warning is fun and serves to encourage paying attention, no warning is overpowered. Also, I say this as somebody who does exploration exclusively; I don't personally care if these things show up on D-Scan because unless I see combat probes IDGAF.
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JetCord
Abyssal Heavy Industries
51
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:20:08 -
[160] - Quote
60% bonus to Stasis Webifier optimal range
you mean per level?
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rhiload Feron-drake
TURN LEFT The Camel Empire
18
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:20:26 -
[161] - Quote
these are not good changes towards small-gang pvp, then again this is a rise post. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
48
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:20:32 -
[162] - Quote
Adarnof wrote:Wormholer here. So how exactly did you envision this dscan invisibility playing out? Is CCP even aware of how critical this function is to our day-to-day lives? If you want a ship to be hidden, fine, cloak it. The penalty being it can't engage in combat while cloaked. This new ability is stupidly overpowered and is yet another swing of the nerfbat to small group viability.
If we can't dscan the ship, the pilot should also be removed from local channel in kspace to make things "balanced".
bombers have 0 calibration delay IIRC. that is no different. you see neither on dscan.
and actually bombers are worse ... if you arent sitting on the warp in spot with the combat recon, you actually see him while he tries to approach you e.g. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
209
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 16:20:34 -
[163] - Quote
Grm Makentor wrote:Tear Jar wrote:Grm Makentor wrote:Nys Cron wrote:Ross Sylibus wrote:I don't see how this doesn't make WH space completely unlivable for most of EVE. This just makes wspace more awesome. if by awesome you mean completely devoid of pve and therefore pvp, then party on mate WH loot value is based on supply and demand. If everyone leaves then the isk/hr in WH space will skyrocket and bring in new players willing to take risks for amazing rewards, which is what WH space should be about. Remember the higher the class, the bigger than chunk of the total loot value comes from blue loot which is sold to static npc buy orders once again, moot point i think
And the higher the class the easier these changes are to deal with. A big group in a C6 wormhole should have no problem dealing with Combat recons, either by scouting their holes or having a few defenders on standby.
Smaller groups have a harder time, but their loot is going to be based on supply and demand. |
Petrus Blackshell
Scrap Metal Squadron
3232
|
Posted - 2014.12.18 16:20:40 -
[164] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Stacy Lone wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners Have you considered the implications this will have for wspace? I mean it might work for 0.0 where you can see that *something* is there through local, but in wspace, this will be absolutely OP and hilarious. No local, not even DScan anymore, how are you supposed to even get any intel? The only way to detect such a ship is by having either eyes on all wholes (requires multitude of characters) and thus seeing it enter or by constant combat probing, which can be seen by the enemy. I fear that this will make this ship far out of line in wspace, where intel is already harder to get than in 0.0. How is that any different than cov ops ships? Covops ships are, with a few exceptions, not very good at the whole "stand and fight" shtick. They also have a targeting delay after decloaking, and can actually be seen on d-scan when they're fighting something (or doing other stuff).
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1505
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:20:41 -
[165] - Quote
Scheulagh Santorine wrote:CCP Rise wrote: Role Bonus: Cannot be detected by directional scanners
Oh, yes, yes, YES, CCP, YEEES, YEEEES, So yes, YES yes SO YEESSSS....
Aaaaahhh.
Yes. Thank you. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
877
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:21:01 -
[166] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote: That is a good point. Making the d-scan immunity an active affect with a short targeting delay when deactivated may be a better choice. Especially with all the other buffs recons are getting.
its a point - personally I don't have a problem with it though and kind of interested to see how it works out. |
Levina Windstar
Mekalon Industry
47
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:21:06 -
[167] - Quote
Levina Windstar wrote:Lorac Gemini wrote:Levina Windstar wrote:Lorac Gemini wrote:Levina Windstar wrote:I like the undetectable feature but I think this will be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too OP in WH.
CCP plz... think about WH too! :/ As a wormholer, I think this is amazing. But I guess WH carebears would hate this. I think it's an amazing idea too, but you have to understand that most corp in WH are small corp and it's another kick in the ass for them (for us). We are not carebear at all but if this **** happens, we will seriously think of leaving WH for good. I mean cmon... can't you see this is way too OP in WH space? I get it in K-Space but balance must be made in W-Space You realise cloaks are a thing right? Recons off Dscan is too scary, but cloaky T3's, bombers, force recons, etc... If anything, this just makes W-space more varied. See, I'm honestly surprised to see WH tears here, because we should be used to non-information. Yeah but I had a chance to get them on D-Scan for 8-10 sec meaby. And yeah, cloaky T3 is a thing but a cloaky T3 lack DPS + they have targeting delay so at least there is a drawback here and again, I had the chance to get them on D-Scan. Think about a 10 man fleet that jump through a WH and land on you (cause THEY can use D-Scan to spot you). It's totally not fair for the defenders. If CCP want to make WH an alts fest scoutin every WH, fine. I'll just find something else to do in New Eden than being a wormholers. |
Angrod Losshelin
Oath of the Forsaken Half Massed
94
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:22:19 -
[168] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
PILGRIM We decided that the Pilgrim really needed Nos/Neut range, rather than strength, to give it the engagement flexibility that other Recons enjoy.
Well this kills the usefulness of the pilgrim in almost every way. Curse = Better neut power at range, legion beats it in EHP while cloaky and raw neuting power, and its tracking disrupt benefits are the same as either the curse or the frigate version (sentinel) which is significantly cheaper.
This boat was significantly useful as a small gang tackle or sneak up an neut your **** off boat. Now its a....I should probably be in any other ship that has neut bonuses boat.
Seriously give the neut amount back and kill the range or give it a different bonus to make it viable in the role you just moved it to. It needs more tracking disrupt or drone dps. You have just placed it in a skirmish/fleet role, please atleast make it viable in that role.
Check out my Podcast!
CSM X: Candidate - Wormholes, Multiboxing, and New Bro's!
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Arla Sarain
184
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:22:19 -
[169] - Quote
D-SCAN immunity has no targetting delay.
This will be fun...
Not. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
932
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:23:17 -
[170] - Quote
Thoughts:
1. I love the general durability and cap buff to make recons more combat capable. 2. The mobility buffs seem perfectly placed. They are recon cruisers, which means part of their job is doing reconnaissance. This involves lots of moving. 3. I love the removal of split weapon systems. Love. It. 4. I like the D-Scan Immunity idea. It gives Combat Recons some of the off-grid stealth ability of Force Recons, without giving it to them on-grid too.
Lots of people will complain about #4, and I predict "Nerf AFK Combat Recons!" threads will start popping up soon. But with even Force Recons getting a general buff to their combat abilities, everything people will complain about would have been true already.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Gremk
Origin. Black Legion.
7
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:23:29 -
[171] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Adarnof wrote:Wormholer here. So how exactly did you envision this dscan invisibility playing out? Is CCP even aware of how critical this function is to our day-to-day lives? If you want a ship to be hidden, fine, cloak it. The penalty being it can't engage in combat while cloaked. This new ability is stupidly overpowered and is yet another swing of the nerfbat to small group viability.
If we can't dscan the ship, the pilot should also be removed from local channel in kspace to make things "balanced". bombers have 0 calibration delay IIRC. that is no different. you see neither on dscan. and actually bombers are worse ... if you arent sitting on the warp in spot with the combat recon, you actually see him while he tries to approach you e.g.
And bombers have a paper thin tank vs something that is going to have a T2 HAC class tank. |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
446
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:23:46 -
[172] - Quote
Warp into a fw plex. There is a curse. Game was good. |
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1646
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:25:43 -
[173] - Quote
And thus continues the long held tradition of ******* lasers up the ass and making sure 50% plus amarr ships are ****** drone whores, and the remaining 50% are kept so ****** that people eventually ask them to be changed to drone ships just so theyre usable, because why bother balancing 4 weapon systems when you cut it down to 3, right? |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
1074
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:25:59 -
[174] - Quote
Total Dscan immunity should not be a thing unless you are cloaked, use a specific module or a deployable. Make it so that they are only visible within close range Dscan, like 5AU or thereabout. |
Sofia Evanglene
Ridge Mineral Holdings
0
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:28:36 -
[175] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:Warp into a fw plex. There is a curse. Game was good. warp into plex theres 10 sebo arty huginns ggwp great game |
Dmitry Kuvora
WAR TEAM Flex Point
2
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:28:38 -
[176] - Quote
interesting changes, but recons will be overpowered
i hope someday you'll add scanning bonuses for force recons |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
429
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:29:21 -
[177] - Quote
While I feel generally quite enthusiastic about these changes I really wish more had been done about the rook. Change the ecm cap use bonus for a cycle rate bonus or SOMETHING more useful like missile damage (even if its kinetic *vomit*) and when you rebalance ECM in to something more reliable and useful then come back to the rook.
Obviously the answer always was making ecm function like "mirror image" but it seems noone has the balls to make it that way.
Join channel Aussies in space to chat with AU/NZ players
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Sobic
Appetite 4 Destruction
30
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:30:11 -
[178] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:Warp into a fw plex. There is a curse. Game was good.
lol so much this ^ |
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:30:54 -
[179] - Quote
Could you make it so that players piloting recons dont show up in local?
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Mixu Paatelainen
Eve Refinery
188
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:31:41 -
[180] - Quote
Glass half full: hahahaha this will be amazing piratical fun!
Glass half empty: I'll be offlining that wormhole tower. |
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